Posted on 07/17/2009 8:52:56 AM PDT by shove_it
July 17, 2009 | A few days after Memorial Day, I walked across the sprawling, plush lawn of Arlington National Cemetery. I headed toward Section 60, a remote area of the famous burial ground, where 600 service members from Iraq and Afghanistan are laid to rest. Gina Gray, former public affairs officer at the cemetery, had testified that mismanagement at Arlington had resulted in callous treatment of personal mementos and artifacts left on grave sites in Section 60. The sun was out after several days of rain. As I approached the gravestones, I saw that Gray was right.
Left out in the rain to rot were crayon drawings by children who had lost a parent, photographs of soldiers with their babies, painted portraits and thank-you notes from grade-school kids to fallen soldiers they had never known. Colors of artworks ran together. Photos were blurred and wilted. Poems and letters were illegible wads of wet paper. A worker in a brown uniform wandered among the graves, blasting the headstones with a power washer without regard to what was left of the mementos -- or the obviously uncomfortable mourners looking on. Some items got further soaked. The worker blasted others across the grass. Many of them would end up in a black trash bin in the cemetery's service area.
Arlington's poor treatment of the mementos and gifts -- testaments to the personal cost of the post-9/11 wars in the Middle East -- appeared to stand in contrast to practices at other cemeteries.
[...]
(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...
This is the second article in a special Salon investigation of America’s renowned cemetery. The first article is here:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/07/16/arlington_national_cemetery/
ping
Lawrence's Body Exhumed From Arlington
WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, Dec. 11) — The body of former Ambassador Larry Lawrence was exhumed from Arlington National Cemetery “early today,” a Pentagon spokesman said.
Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon told reporters that the movement was being handled “privately by the Lawrence family funeral home” and that he did not know any details of the matter.
The removal comes in the wake of a controversy over the waiver granted by the Pentagon to allow Lawrence to be buried at Arlington. Lawrence, who was serving as ambassador to Switzerland at the time of his death, was a contributor to the Democratic Party.
In the face of the growing controversy, Lawrence's widow, Sheila Davis Lawrence, wrote to President Bill Clinton saying that she would like to bring her husband's body home to San Diego.
House Republicans announced intentions to investigate the waiver since his Merchant Marine service, during which Lawrence was supposed to have been injured and was cited as a reason for the burial exemption, was unable to be documented.
Rep. Terry Everett (R-Ala.) said Monday that his House Veterans Affairs oversight subcommittee would look into Lawrence's background. “The subcommittee still has an interest in questions concerning the State Department's actions in the granting of waivers for Mr. Lawrence,” Everett said.
I don’t know about Arlington, but the National cemetery that my husband is in doesn’t allow anything but flowers and maybe a small flag.
In Oklahoma City at the location of the Murrah Bombing, people put items on the fence in rememberance and every last item was left for awhile and then taken to be stored until the Museum opened. If we could do it in OKC, then what is wrong with the Federal Government and Arlington National Cemetary. This is a disgrace.
I believe I once read that momentos left at the foot of The Wall were collected daily and archived. Could this also be done at Arlington?
Maybe I’m callous but what is the cemetery supposed to do with all this non-waterproof stuff left at grave sites? Are they supposed to set up a museum for it?
And why are people leaving stuff that will look like garbage after the first downpour?
People have no common sense these days.
Yep ... that’s how it is at Lincoln National Cemetery near Chicago.
They rules are VERY strict about what you can place on the graves.
Over the holidays they allow a grave blanket.
It’s stated very clearly that once things look worn they will be disposed of...
Both my folks are buried there in the same grave..
“...appeared to stand in contrast to practices at other cemeteries.”
Maybe at the National Cem’s, but at other cemeteries, it’s not so at all.
People don’t understand that this is standard procedure in most places. I’m a graveyard nut and I’m well aware of it.
That’s nothing, there was a story a couple weeks ago about how the funeral home handling the bodies up there were mistreating the bodies. Corpses of vets left in unrefridgerated garages for months waiting for burial. Essentially left to decompose until they got around to burying them
My mom and dad are both buried at Arlington. But I think this article AND the concept are off base.
This is not the Vietnam War Memorial, which covers, what, a hundred yards? Arlington has over 300,000 people buried there and covers more than 620 acres. It is huge.
I go to Arlington once or twice a year, it is one of the most beautiful, somber places that exist.
I know the regulations on what can and cannot be placed on gravesites, and I don’t give it a second thought when I see items there heaped on and around graves. People need to say goodbye to their loved ones in their own way, and if that means breaking the rules, nobody is going to say anything. I spend time looking at the items myself.
But Arlington is not the place to act as an archive of what people leave there. It is an archive of the sacrifice and honor of the men and women who rest there.
Furthermore, this article is from Salon, a LEFTIST POS rag if there ever was one, and they don’t give a rat’s ass about our troops other than what they can do to drag them down, deface them or destroy them.
that is the same at the veterans burial site where I live.
I didn’t realize Arlington had different rules.
As a graveyard afficianado, I’d have to agree with you, largely.
Honestly, I don’t know why we have to keep every cigarette butt (Vietnam Memorial) in air-tight storage.
And also, I think most people know that if they don’t put “permanent” items at the site, it’ll disintegrate pretty easily, or get blown away (just by wind storms).
The main thing is that the PEOPLE supposedly maintaining the burial site don’t desecrate it further. Let the items be; put them back if they’re obvious when nearby. Let nature take care of it.
PhiKapMom, I couldn’t disagree more. That is not what Arlington is about.
I couldn’t agree with you more, armymarinedad.
These scumbags at Salon should be horsewhipped for even setting foot inside the grounds at Arlington. If I saw one of those jerks with their cameras and notepads in there, God help them.
I agree with you and believe the folks at Arlington should bear no responsibility for this.
Either specifically tell people coming in they cannot leave items or pick them up. I read the entire article and having someone cleaning the tombstones while people are present and blowing away items is wrong.
I personally would not leave anything — I know what Arlington is for but it is happening and it makes them look bad like they don’t care which is probably closer to the truth.
Remember, they are government workers. Caring is not part of the job description.
Yes.. Or stand at the grave and read it (or put laminate it and weight it down with a rock or something).
My grandmother died before my wedding. I thought about leaving an invite on her grave but for multiple reasons (security reason, the garbage factor, etc) decided not to.
Instead I sat there and read it to her then brought it back home with me. Cried a lot too.
LQ
They specifically DO tell people not to leave stuff. It is posted on signs. But I don’t think any of them is heartless enough to march up to someone and demand they don’t leave artifacts. They see it, and I’m sure they just assume the artifacts will be cleaned up next time that plot area is policed. I say cleaned up deliberately, because that is what it has to be.
I understand what you mean, and I think the folks there who don’t practice a little vigilance and compassion DO need a talking to.
I have seen them, the ground crews with their little tractors and stuff, but I haven’t seen people being completely inappropriate like this person has.
And I will be willing to bet money I have spent FAR more time at Arlington over the years than the liberal POS writing the article. Be as that may, I could see where some of the caretakers would be oblivious on occasion. They aren’t members of the Tomb Guard, after all. They are union-paid government workers, is my bet.
I’m having a hard time getting very upset by this. What are they really expecting the cemetery staff to do? Arlington is enormous, and I’m not sure it’s reasonable to expect that they’d be able to carefully bag and tag everything left on a grave there.
I get the sentiment, but I also realize that there’s a reasonableness test that is appropriate as well. They don’t have *that* many staff and they have a huge job to do that as far as I can tell they care for those grounds with dignity and class. So they sweep it with a leaf blower... I probably would too.
While I don’t think it’s always possible for the weather to be accommodating, I would have guessed that whatever protocol is used for the Vietnam Memorial on the retrieval and care (or disposal) of momentos left behind would be applied at Arlington.
Once upon a time, flowers sufficed at a grave site to show rememberance. (Sticking my neck out...) But is it really more “caring” to leave all manner of objects behind on a grave and expect the grounds keepers to treat such things like the bones of the interred? Flowers eventually whither and blow away naturally. Man-made objects can’t do that.
Until my husband died, I didn’t know that being buried together was an option. The best deal one gets from the gov.
I am not familiar with Salon.com and it's reputation. Having not returned to ANC for 46 years, my frame of reference leaves off at JFK's funeral and the massive effort taken to maintain his grave site in an orderly fashion. The apparent lack of respect for Section 60 graves and the mismanagement asserted in these articles is troubling to me.
As a poster on another thread said - it appears there are more unknown soldiers buried their than we thought.
You are absolutely correct. I visited the Memorial about 2 weeks ago. A portion of the original fence is still up on the west side and people still put personal items on the fence as a memorium. Every 90 days all items are removed, tagged, and stored in the musuem.
Its still very moving.
In memory of Robert Chipman, Major, USAF (Ret)
The left destroyed support for our military and the war effort to get a radical left wing President. Now that they are in the White House it is their war to lose. They need to reeducate the American people to love their Government and support the war effort. This is a show of "patiotism".
What Obama is doing in Afghanistan is the same thing we did in Iraq. It's called a surge. He is following the same war strategy as Bush. I don't like Pres. Obama but I do support his efforts in Afghanistan. We need to encourage him to support the war financially with appropriate defense spending.
All of these items interfere with keeping the grounds neat and orderly.
Thank you, sir, for serving the country.
I am grateful also to your parents, both for serving the country and raising such a great American.
My parents are buried in section 68, which is one removed from section 60. Section 60 is one of the larger groups of plots, and I suspect there is a lot of traffic there, both from ceremonies for newly buried military personnel to the families making treks there whose loved ones have been buried within the last year or two.
I have seen the traffic through that area, and there are a lot of flowers, pictures, pieces of paper and such. I have seen some parts that were unsightly to me, but my guess is that they try to let people take advantage of the gray area between “no artifacts at all” to “we will remove the items when we get to them”. As a result, there are a lot of things heaped around there.
As for Salon, take my word on it. They are one of the most virulently leftist websites there are. The poster above had it right when he said they probably have blood on their hands.
Articles like this from people like those at Salon REALLY piss me off. They sound oh, so concerned, speaking with hushed voices how terrible it is, how someone should do something about this terrible injustice, but do everything in their power to ensure our men and women are spat upon both literally and figuratively when they come stateside. I detest them.
If God was interested in being JUST to those on earth, there would have been lightning bolts when Salon personnel entered the property.
The workers at the National cemetery where my husband is buried are very caring.
Okay now I am teary eyed.....what a sweet thing to do....
I'll bet Bill Clinton was pretty mad he didn't get to bulldoze all of those along with the evidence he ordered destroyed.
Govt employees. What do you expect?
It turned out to be a real blessing for my sister and I. My parents died within 2 months of each other last fall. They were from different religious backgrounds and we weren’t sure what to do.
Dad was a vet of WWII - and my sister had the idea of looking into the National Cemetery. It was the perfect solution for us on so many fronts.
Dad’s funeral was absolutely beautiful .. poetic really - the 21 gun salute .. taps w/the bugler off in the woods .. it was cool, misty and rainy..
When Mom passed away a mere two monthes later it was comforting to know they would be together.
They will do anything to distract from The Agenda. So they throw what they think is red meat out every day.
I’m sorry that you lost your parents so close together.
A military service is very moving. One of our boys is a officer in the Navy. He was able to make arrangements to present me with the flag. It was a surprise to me and very emotional for him. The cemetery people said that was a first for them, and they cried along with the rest of us.
That is probably a true statement. At the Museum they even kept one of the old Journal Record rooms where the blast blew in debris.
Bet Clinton wishes they hadn’t put up the huge picture with him and Hillary looking like the cats that swallowed the canary at the Memorial Service too. First time my daughter and I saw that I went to say something but the lady behind me said it first — Bill and Hillary don’t look sad at all. It has been the same comments everytime I have taken people who are visiting to the Museum.
Thank you for the condolences .. They would have been married 58 years if they could have made it to December. Once Dad went Mom just didn’t have the strength I guess. They were both in their 80’s and not in the best of health. Thankfully I was able to spend a lot of that last year with them.
Oh my ... I’ve got tears running just reading about your son’s heart .. - the RESPECT that your son obviously had for his dad ... and YOU is what it’s all about .. (and the love and strength he showed by being able to do it!! WOW)
I’m sorry to hear about your husband ... it’s hard isn’t it.. My best to you.
Those are nice words, you gave me a lift at a time when I am feeling very low about our country.
What is going on eats at me every day. When I go to Arlington, it gives me perspective, but makes me angry.
These people gave their lives so that we could throw it all away in a matter of months on the urging of an America-Hating charlatan in the White House and his willing subordinates in the political parties?
Yes. It does make me angry, so I DID appreciate your words. Thank you.
From the ANC website:
“Floral Tributes at Gravesites
Fresh cut flowers may be placed on graves at any time.
Artificial flowers may be placed on graves October 10th through April 15th.
Planting of flowers, shrubs, etc. is prohibited.
Potted plants are permitted during the period 10 days before and 10 days after Easter.
Christmas wreaths are permitted during the Christmas season.
Floral items will be removed from the graves as soon as they become faded and unsightly.
Statues, vigil lights, flags, etc. and any type of commemorative items are not permitted on graves except for flags placed on the graves by the government.
Floral items and other types of decorations are not to be secured to the headstone or marker.
There will be a general cleanup of all floral items on graves 10 days after each holiday-Easter, Memorial Day, and Veterans Day.”
I also contacted a ranking member of The Old Guard Association (TOGA) who is very knowledgeable in these matters who sent me the following email:
“Having been to a number of funerals in Section 60 (or any other section that I've seen), I can tell you that no one is removing anything from the gravesites during the opening hours of ANC. As I noted previously, it is ANC policy to remove items from gravesites after the allowable period of time. Also, as to record keeping of grave markers, ANC has a data bank, backed up by a card system backed up by a file on each grave. It works as last week during Ray K's funeral, one of our TOGA directors (who worked there after his retirement from active duty) went to the ANC Admin building to see if a service colleague's wife was buried there. A quick click of the computer produced the name and location of the grave and when we stopped by, it was clearly marked as the correct one.”
Rimorel, you and several other commenters on this thread are absolutely correct. These Salon articles are gross exaggerations or just outright lies. I'm sorry I fell for them and posted this crap getting people riled up for no reason - I should have known better. As for the commemorative items people are placing on graves, they are causing the clutter in violation of posted regulations and the author of the article should have said so.
Thanks for taking the time to correct your post!
Maria
Well said and well done! Thanks for doing the basic research and follow-up the Salon “journalist” wouldn’t!
Thanks for following up on this and giving us the facts. That is what is so neat about this website — we get the facts.
I don’t think you were getting people riled up for no reason-as someone who cares, you saw this and reacted as you should have...that is why I come to FR. I come here because I cannot be an authority on everything, there is just too much to be exposed to.
I know enough about history, aviation, chemistry, the military culture, nuclear issues and medicine, so I can offer my opinions on them and back them up with a basis for my stand.
I don’t know much about law, running a business, finance, construction, marketing, publishing, television and so on.
I depend on Freepers to provide me with enough knowledge to serve as a platform for exploring issues. It is why I spend 90% of my time online at Free Republic.
Because people like you provide ME with reliable information on stuff I know little about. I am happy to provide it when I can.
So, thank YOU...:)
I gave you the facts yesterday or the day before.
I agree. And I also watch in wonder on the local news where someone got shot and killed or someone was killed in an auto accident and all the folks who are hoping to get their faces in the nightly news are out there with their candle light vigils and leaving all kinds of stuff like pictures, notes, balloons and stuffed animals.
After the very next rainstorm, all that's left is wet crap.........
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