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Mandatory End of Life Counseling for Seniors
Zach's House Blog ^ | July 17, 2009 | Zach

Posted on 07/17/2009 4:11:33 PM PDT by madison10

Edited on 07/17/2009 4:30:33 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

One of the most outrageous mandates in the Democratic health care bill is found on page 416. [Mod note: try pp 425-426] On this page, you will see mandatory “end of life” counseling for seniors every five years. With this counseling, they will be spoken to about the different end of life choices that can be undertaken.

This is crazy. How could some Democrat not get an amendment approved during committee to remove this page of the new health care legislation?

This is only one outrage contained in this bill. If Obama has his way, forcing this bill to be voted on next week without members and citizens to actually see what is in it, we will definitely be surprised the next time we try to go see a doctor.

Call Democrat Mike Ross and ask him to stop this bill in committee. Also tell him you’ll donate to his campaign and do so, after he stops this bill. The energy committee must pass the bill to get it to the floor. There are many conservative Dems on that committee. Only 7 are needed to kill it. They had 10 yesterday. They need your support. Two other committees already passed it today. We need to call today. Also, can someone else post the names of other blue dog Dems on that committee? Thanks.

You can see the entire 1018 page health care bill here.

Washington 2436 Rayburn House Office Bldg Washington, DC 20515 1-800-223-2220 (202) 225-1314 Fax

Prescott 221 West Main Street Prescott, AR 71857 (870) 887-6787 (870) 887-6799 Fax

Hot Springs 300 Exchange Street Suite A Hot Springs National Park, AR 71901 (501) 520-5892 (501) 520-5873 Fax

Pine Bluff George Howard, Jr. Federal Bldg. 100 East 8th Avenue, Room 2521 Pine Bluff, AR 71601 (870) 536-3376 (870) 536-4058 Fax


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 111th; agenda; bho44; bhohealthcare; deathcare; democratcongress; democrats; elderly; fubo; help; murderbyobama; obama; obamacare; seniors; socializedmedicine
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Oh...boy. Shades of all the worst-case Sci-fi movies I ever saw.
1 posted on 07/17/2009 4:11:33 PM PDT by madison10
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To: madison10

Shades of Soylent Green... Bring on the Edward G. Robinson movie for the final curtain...


2 posted on 07/17/2009 4:12:45 PM PDT by CondorFlight (I)
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To: madison10

Yeah. It’s really simple. “We aren’t going to give you the treatment you need so to make the dying process a little more palatable, here’s some counseling.”


3 posted on 07/17/2009 4:14:05 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: madison10
0bama is going to make Adolf Hitler look like a boy scout.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

4 posted on 07/17/2009 4:15:13 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: madison10

I am totally tired of “MANDANTORY” anything!


5 posted on 07/17/2009 4:15:40 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: madison10
I'm just waiting for one of these dolts to darken my doorstep.

I WILL BE EXERCISING MY 2nd AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

FUBO

6 posted on 07/17/2009 4:15:47 PM PDT by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: madison10

My Dad and Mom are technically seniors, barring a traffic accident they ain’t near “end of life”. They’ll be pretty ticked if the have to sit in a shrinks office for counseling about it.


7 posted on 07/17/2009 4:16:37 PM PDT by Domandred (Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.. I am Jim Thompson.)
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To: madison10

With radical watermellons in charge,I expect Soylent Green,even though there’s plenty of resources to expand our economy with.


8 posted on 07/17/2009 4:16:48 PM PDT by nomad
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To: madison10

Sick, sick and sick The people that are pushing this are mental patients escaped from the asylmn.


9 posted on 07/17/2009 4:16:49 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
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To: madison10
Outright extermination of the "Baby Boomer" generation.

That's me and my wife, YOUR parents and your kid's Grandparents.

God Help Us...

10 posted on 07/17/2009 4:18:05 PM PDT by sonofagun
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To: madison10

11 posted on 07/17/2009 4:18:07 PM PDT by Bean Counter ( Shovel ready...)
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To: madison10

Well. I just read page 416 and there is nothing of the kind. Could it be a different page number?


12 posted on 07/17/2009 4:18:10 PM PDT by svcw (Barry: mentally deficient & narcissistic misogynist megalomaniac psychopath w/ paranoid delusions)
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To: madison10

So where is the AARP?


13 posted on 07/17/2009 4:18:46 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Big Ears + Big Spending --> BigEarMarx, the man behind TOTUS)
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To: madison10

All senior congress critters should receive counseling on the joy of suicide. Many could do their country a favor following up on their own advice.


14 posted on 07/17/2009 4:19:19 PM PDT by 353FMG (Death is Life without Freedom.)
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To: madison10

15 posted on 07/17/2009 4:19:35 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: madison10
This is crazy. How could some Democrat not get an amendment approved during committee to remove this page of the new health care legislation?

Because they're all in this utterly insane rush to pass everything they possibly can without reading any of it. And it's because that BASTARD in the White Hut knows Americans will hate it!!!


16 posted on 07/17/2009 4:20:11 PM PDT by kromike
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
I am totally tired of “MANDATORY” anything!

The one MANDATORY thing I am not tired of it the MANDATORY feature of the Constitution that MANDATES that the POTUS/CinC be a natural-born citizen. This needs to become the "new" nuclear option to stop the Hopey-Dopey-Changey-Strangey Marxist Juggernaut.

17 posted on 07/17/2009 4:21:31 PM PDT by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all.....)
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To: madison10
I see nothing of the kind on page 416
18 posted on 07/17/2009 4:21:33 PM PDT by Crazieman (Feb 7, 2008 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1966675/posts?page=28#28)
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To: madison10

What is the punishment for dying without the proper counseling?


19 posted on 07/17/2009 4:22:20 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Domandred

Oh, it certainly wouldn’t be a shrink - more like an ACORN type I suspect, who’s had a 2 hour training seminar.


20 posted on 07/17/2009 4:22:59 PM PDT by GnuHere
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To: Crazieman

I saw something about this on page 425....


21 posted on 07/17/2009 4:24:12 PM PDT by goodnesswins (WHO is Jim Thompson?)
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To: Domandred

I’m looking at page 416 and don’t see anything resembling the main post.


22 posted on 07/17/2009 4:24:52 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: madison10

What’s the right page number? It’s not on page 416


23 posted on 07/17/2009 4:25:04 PM PDT by penelopesire ("The only CHANGE you will get with the Democrats is the CHANGE left in your pocket")
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To: madison10

It’s section 1233


24 posted on 07/17/2009 4:26:03 PM PDT by madison10 (Prayer is what is remains when we run out of options...when it should have been the first choice.)
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To: penelopesire

Pages 425-426. It’s under a section called “Advance Care Planning Consultation” or something.


25 posted on 07/17/2009 4:27:09 PM PDT by rightwingintelligentsia
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: goodnesswins

LOL


28 posted on 07/17/2009 4:28:34 PM PDT by Adams
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To: SatinDoll
Just sent my Democrat congresscritter a note regarding End of Life Counseling.

I wanted to tell him I'd take out any of his end of life counselors that shows up in my vicinity ~ and I'd expect that to be a very unpopular, probably unfillable job ~ even in the face of widespread unemployment.

Instead, I lowballed it a little ~ but think about it ~ the Government hires some puke to come and talk to you about end of life options. That's a death threat right there. It's self defense to kill the counselor.

29 posted on 07/17/2009 4:29:52 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: madison10
I won't show up for any fricken counseling. Suppose I'll be labeled a criminal and electrocuted..
30 posted on 07/17/2009 4:30:05 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: All

Here is the appropriate section... Make sure you read exactly what is being proposed, so we don’t look like idiots.

15 SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
16 (a) MEDICARE.—
17 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
18 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
19 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
20 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
21 subparagraph (DD);
22 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
23 subparagraph (EE); and
24 (iii) by adding at the end the fol
25 lowing new subparagraph:
1 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
2 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
3 (B) by adding at the end the following new
4 subsection:
5 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
6 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
7 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con8
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de9
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
10 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
11 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
12 consultation shall include the following:
13 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad14
vance care planning, including key questions and
15 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo16
ple to talk to.
17 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad18
vance directives, including living wills and durable
19 powers of attorney, and their uses.
20 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
21 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
22 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
23 of national and State-specific resources to assist con24
sumers and their families with advance care plan25
ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad-
1 vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
2 service organizations (including those funded
3 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
4 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
5 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail6
able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene7
fits for such services and supports that are available
8 under this title.
9 ‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of
10 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar
11 orders, which shall include—
12 ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of
13 such an order is beneficial to the individual and
14 the individual’s family and the reasons why
15 such an order should be updated periodically as
16 the health of the individual changes;
17 ‘‘(II) the information needed for an indi18
vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci19
sions regarding the completion of such an
20 order; and
21 ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that
22 an individual may use to determine the require23
ments of the State in which such individual re24
sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi25
vidual will be carried out if the individual is un-
1 able to communicate those wishes, including re2
quirements regarding the designation of a sur3
rogate decisionmaker (also known as a health
4 care proxy).
5 ‘‘(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement
6 for explanations under clause (i) to consultations
7 furnished in a State—
8 ‘‘(I) in which all legal barriers have been
9 addressed for enabling orders for life sustaining
10 treatment to constitute a set of medical orders
11 respected across all care settings; and
12 ‘‘(II) that has in effect a program for or13
ders for life sustaining treatment described in
14 clause (iii).
15 ‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining
16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a
17 program that—
18 ‘‘(I) ensures such orders are standardized
19 and uniquely identifiable throughout the State;
20 ‘‘(II) distributes or makes accessible such
21 orders to physicians and other health profes22
sionals that (acting within the scope of the pro23
fessional’s authority under State law) may sign
24 orders for life sustaining treatment;
1 ‘‘(III) provides training for health care
2 professionals across the continuum of care
3 about the goals and use of orders for life sus4
taining treatment; and
5 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake6
holders includes representatives from emergency
7 medical services, emergency department physi8
cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9
tion, state medical association, state surveyors,
10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11
partment of health, state hospital association,
12 home health association, state bar association,
13 and state hospice association.
14 ‘‘(2) A practitioner described in this paragraph is—
15 ‘‘(A) a physician (as defined in subsection
16 (r)(1)); and
17 ‘‘(B) a nurse practitioner or physician’s assist18
ant who has the authority under State law to sign
19 orders for life sustaining treatments.
20 ‘‘(3)(A) An initial preventive physical examination
21 under subsection (WW), including any related discussion
22 during such examination, shall not be considered an ad23
vance care planning consultation for purposes of applying
24 the 5-year limitation under paragraph (1).
1 ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2
spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently
3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant
4 change in the health condition of the individual, including
5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a
6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening
7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a
8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or
9 a hospice program.
10 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11
clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining
12 treatment or a similar order.
13 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order
14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect
15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to
16 the treatment of that individual that—
17 ‘‘(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as de18
fined in subsection (r)(1)) or another health care
19 professional (as specified by the Secretary and who
20 is acting within the scope of the professional’s au21
thority under State law in signing such an order, in22
cluding a nurse practitioner or physician assistant)
23 and is in a form that permits it to stay with the in24
dividual and be followed by health care professionals
25 and providers across the continuum of care;
1 ‘‘(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s
2 preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, in3
cluding an indication of the treatment and care de4
sired by the individual;
5 ‘‘(iii) is uniquely identifiable and standardized
6 within a given locality, region, or State (as identified
7 by the Secretary); and
8 ‘‘(iv) may incorporate any advance directive (as
9 defined in section 1866(f)(3)) if executed by the in10
dividual.
11 ‘‘(B) The level of treatment indicated under subpara12
graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat13
ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified
14 interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may in15
clude indications respecting, among other items—
16 ‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the
17 patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac
18 or pulmonary problems;
19 ‘‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer
20 to a hospital or remaining at the current care set21
ting;
22 ‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
23 ‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutri
24 tion and hydration.’’.
1 (2) PAYMENT.—Section 1848(j)(3) of such Act
2 (42 U.S.C. 1395w-4(j)(3)) is amended by inserting
3 ‘‘(2)(FF),’’ after ‘‘(2)(EE),’’.
4 (3) FREQUENCY LIMITATION.—Section 1862(a)
5 of such Act (42 U.S.C. 1395y(a)) is amended—
6 (A) in paragraph (1)—
7 (i) in subparagraph (N), by striking
8 ‘‘and’’ at the end;
9 (ii) in subparagraph (O) by striking
10 the semicolon at the end and inserting ‘‘,
11 and’’; and
12 (iii) by adding at the end the fol13
lowing new subparagraph:
14 ‘‘(P) in the case of advance care planning
15 consultations (as defined in section
16 1861(hhh)(1)), which are performed more fre17
quently than is covered under such section;’’;
18 and
19 (B) in paragraph (7), by striking ‘‘or (K)’’
20 and inserting ‘‘(K), or (P)’’.
21 (4) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made
22 by this subsection shall apply to consultations fur23
nished on or after January 1, 2011.


31 posted on 07/17/2009 4:30:15 PM PDT by freedomwarrior998
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Whoops! Sorry, transposed the number. It is 425.


32 posted on 07/17/2009 4:30:53 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO Foreign Nationals as our President!!)
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To: Crazieman; All

MAYBE YOU ARE READING THE WRONG PAGE!!!


33 posted on 07/17/2009 4:31:54 PM PDT by KevinDavis (Can't Stop the Signal!)
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To: madison10

I disagree with the author, this provision should NOT be removed from the plan.

First, it shows the outrageousness of this whole exercise.

Second, in the unlikely event it DOES pass, as a senior citizen ( I think, I’m 61) I’m looking forward to having these meetings. They ought to have them yearly.

I’m going to look forward to it, and my ‘consular’ is going to need some therapy herself after meeting with me.


34 posted on 07/17/2009 4:32:23 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries for the American farmer.)
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To: madison10
Is driving your car off the edge of the Grand Canyon one of the choices?

-PJ

35 posted on 07/17/2009 4:33:12 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (This just in... Voting Republican is a Terrorist act!)
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To: svcw

It starts on page 425, however, by end of life it seems to mean decisions, like nursing homes, in home care, living will etc.

The easiest thing to remember, that all of it is unconstitutional. What part of the Constitution does Congress think gives them this power? If it isn’t addressed, it is unconstitutional and illegal for them to do. They do lots of unconstitutional things, and we need to start really fighting back and striking it all down.

Could these congressmen willfully disregarding to Constitution, be considered treason? If not it should still be criminal, so they can be indicted and removed.


36 posted on 07/17/2009 4:33:46 PM PDT by jkeith3213
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To: freedomwarrior998

Sounds like they are making a “LIVING WILL” a matter of law...IOW....like insurance, you MUST HAVE IT.....well....guess what....lots of people who are supposed to have car insurance (illegals????) do NOT have it....

This is all getting crazy


37 posted on 07/17/2009 4:34:14 PM PDT by goodnesswins (WHO is Jim Thompson?)
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To: madison10

soylent green is people


38 posted on 07/17/2009 4:34:57 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (There once was a dream called, "Hippy Beat Down." The mere whisper of if caused cops to cry.")
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To: freedomwarrior998

I don’t see anything on there about assisted or unassisted suicide. Or did I miss it?


39 posted on 07/17/2009 4:35:26 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO Foreign Nationals as our President!!)
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To: Crazieman

It Starts on page 424, line 16


40 posted on 07/17/2009 4:35:32 PM PDT by Z.Hobbs
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

Just found it. These people are going to try and kill off the baby boomer generation. They will do their best to make old people feel like ‘burdens on society’ and get them all signing these ‘orders’..PUSHED INTO THESE ORDERS!

This is an OUTRAGE!


41 posted on 07/17/2009 4:35:43 PM PDT by penelopesire ("The only CHANGE you will get with the Democrats is the CHANGE left in your pocket")
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To: Balding_Eagle

Check out page 761, where the bait and switch occurs:
‘‘(7) SPECIAL RULE FOR FISCAL YEARS 2017, 2018, AND 2019.—
‘‘(A) FISCAL YEAR 2017.—Notwithstanding paragraph (2), the total DSH allotments for all
States for—
‘‘(i) fiscal year 2017, shall be the total DSH allotments that would otherwise be determined under this subsection for such fiscal year decreased by $1,500,000,000;
‘‘(ii) fiscal year 2018, shall be the total DSH allotments that would otherwise be determined under this subsection for such fiscal year decreased by $2,500,000,000; and
‘‘(iii) fiscal year 2019, shall be the total DSH allotments that would otherwise be determined under this subsection for such fiscal year decreased by $6,000,000,000.’’

In other words, old people are refused all treatment by 2019.


42 posted on 07/17/2009 4:37:23 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: freedomwarrior998
Here is the appropriate section... Make sure you read exactly what is being proposed, so we don’t look like idiots.

With all due respect, your post is essentially unreadable.

So, what IS being proposed, exactly?

43 posted on 07/17/2009 4:38:08 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: penelopesire

I suspect that during counselling, many seniors will be found to be “confused and disoriented” and unable to make end of life decisions for themselves.


44 posted on 07/17/2009 4:38:23 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: jkeith3213
They, meaning the do-gooder counselors, will be set up to perform the same assistance that Financial Advisors, Doctors, and others perform now. On its face it seems okay, but we all know how "helpful" the government can be a la Child Protective Services, Veterans, and other entities.

Do we really want them to be giving advice as to where the senior's money will go, or how soon, or the best way to die? In the end it is a money grab.

The mandatory is a given...the whole frickin' proposal is mandatory

Apologies for getting the page number wrong.

45 posted on 07/17/2009 4:38:44 PM PDT by madison10 (Prayer is what is remains when we run out of options...when it should have been the first choice.)
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I have looked in sec 1233, page 416, pages 425-26 and page 452 and see nothing about assisted suicide.


46 posted on 07/17/2009 4:38:46 PM PDT by redangus
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To: madison10
I actually downloaded and read the portion in question. It is not on page 416.

The portion in question seems to be under (sdtarting on page 424):

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.

(a) MEDICARE.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social 18 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended-

...and on page 426, there is this:

"E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.

This is to be held every five years. Pallative care is comfort for the terminally ill, hospice care is health care for the terminally ill.

That's all I could find, and found no provisions for assited suicide counseling.

47 posted on 07/17/2009 4:38:52 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: aimhigh

How do they define old?


48 posted on 07/17/2009 4:41:40 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries for the American farmer.)
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To: madison10

Couple of questions: Is this in the House bill or the Senate bill? Also, can you provide a link to the legislation via the Library of Congress’ Thomas website so we can all go read it? Thanks.


49 posted on 07/17/2009 4:41:57 PM PDT by La Lydia
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To: madison10
OK all you good Catholics who voted for Obeyme - been to confession yet? The RCC had better come out with threats of excommunication for any “catholic” democrat politician who doesn't fight this tooth & nail.(McCaskill, Dodd, Leahy, Pelosi, Kennedy et al)
50 posted on 07/17/2009 4:42:15 PM PDT by Apercu ("A man's character is his fate" - Heraclitus)
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