Skip to comments.If we could get millions of Americans to march on Washington, what would we do?
Posted on 07/18/2009 11:30:17 AM PDT by Jim RobinsonEdited on 07/18/2009 11:48:33 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
* * R O U G H * * D R A F T * *
(continuing my remarks from prior thread)
Here is our recourse as declared by our Founding Fathers:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
It cannot be denied that the central government has become destructive of our unalienable rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and our rights to live free. The government is no longer responsive to we the People. They have stretched and shredded the constitution to the point that they have illegally seized for themselves virtually unlimited powers over the citizens and act as if we have no rights and no powers of our own. They are acting without our consent.
Our Founders established that when our government becomes destructive of our rights then it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
We have reached the point where the government's long train of abuses and usurpations has achieved absolute Despotism, therefore it is our right, it is our duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for our future security.
Therefore, We the People of America choose to exercise our right to throw off and alter the abusive government by peacefully recalling and removing from office the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States and all U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives effective immediately.
An interim provisional Chief Executive and congressional representatives will be established as follows:
The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive. The Chief Executive shall appoint and the interim Senate shall confirm an interim Vice President.
An immediate election shall be held within each state legislature to appoint two interim senators to represent each sovereign state.
A special election shall be held by all states within 30 days to elect interim members of the House of Representatives.
Elections for regular government offices shall be conducted in November, 2010 as previously scheduled, except that elections will be held for all elective offices, including President, Vice President and all U.S. Representatives. U.S. Senators will be elected per class schedule by the various state legislatures.
We alter the government to provide new Guards for our future security as follows:
The Constitution of the United States must be kept intact and must be adhered to and strictly followed by all government entities as originally intended. The government has stretched the constitutional limits well beyond those intended by our founders. We must take steps to ensure that this is corrected and that the out of control government is reined in and that sufficient measures are introduced to maintain the limits, checks and balances on government and that government powers are strictly limited to those enumerated in the constitution and that our rights are reestablished, reaffirmed, re-secured and safeguarded. We must restore and reestablish the sovereignty of the people and the states and restore the constitutional balances between the central government, the various states and we the people. The constitution severely restricts government powers and guarantees unalienable freedom and Liberty to the people.
As we restore constitutionally limited government several wrongs must be righted:
The central government has illegally expanded its powers. They've done this by ignoring or stretching their constitutional limits. They have usurped powers limited to the states and the people. We must reestablish and reaffirm the enumerated powers and limit the central government strictly to just those powers. They've built huge power bases by allowing senators and representatives to be full time professional career positions. We eliminate this by establishing strict qualifications for office and term limits.
We must reestablish and reaffirm the powers to the states and the people as defined by the 9th and 10th amendments.
The central government has denied the states their constitutionally guaranteed republican form of government by introducing the 17th amendment which alters the way the senators which were to represent the sovereign interests of the various states to the central government. We must reestablish that representation by repealing the 17th amendment and allowing the state legislatures of the various states to elect their own senators as intended by our founders. This was never intended to be a function of the people. We the People are represented to the central government by our elected representatives in the House of Representatives. The sovereign states were to be represented by the state's senators to keep central powers and encroachment in check. Power is from the people to the states, and from the states to the central government. They've turned this upside down and inside out. We must correct it.
We hereby repeal the 17th amendment.
The central government has expanded well beyond the limits established for it by the founders and pay for that expansion by directly taxing the people and severely restricting our rights through an enslaving income tax.
We hereby repeal the 16th amendment.
The IRS and all sub departments and agencies are hereby dissolved, disbanded and closed.
The newly elected congress will establish rules and schedules for assessing and collecting fees, tariffs and excise taxes to support the armed forces and all constitutionally authorized departments of The United States Government per the Constitution of the United States (see schedule).
The central government is hereby stripped of all illegal powers and all departments and agencies not authorized by the constitution are hereby dissolved and disbanded. Their current budgets are hereby withdrawn. All disbanded department funds and liquid assets are to be immediately returned to the US Treasury. A list and methods for achieving this is provided in schedule xxx.
Ownership and responsibility for all federally held buildings, lands, parks, waterways, oceans, seas, etc, other than those in Washington, D.C. or military bases, forts, reservations, or local federal buildings owned by valid constitutional federal departments (see schedule) are hereby transferred to the sovereign state governments within which they reside or are located.
Responsibility for all natural resources found within any of the various states or within lands, oceans, lakes, rivers, waterways, seas out through our international boundary limits are hereby returned to the various states. All laws for mining, drilling, logging, or otherwise capitalizing on any minerals or natural resources are to be determined by the various states within which said resources are found.
The social security system is hereby dissolved, disbanded and closed. All social security funds being held by the federal government are to be returned to the private retirement accounts of the individuals owning them. A special fund will be establish for all current recipients and new recipients according to schedule xxy and the social security system shall be phased out accordingly. The funds to support current social security benefits shall become the responsibility of the states within which the recipients reside.
No revenues accruing to the federal government shall be disbursed to any state, city or local government for any reason whatsoever. Or used to subsidize or benefit any government or private entity, organization or person, other than those explicitly authorized and enumerated in the constitution.
All states are hereby solely responsible for any and all revenues or funds required to operate their sovereign states. The central government is not obligated to and shall not interfere in state government or local affairs.
The interstate commerce clause shall be applied strictly to regulating interstate commerce as originally established and intended by our founders. No stretches or reinterpretations of any kind shall be allowed.
Our first unalienable right is the right to life. Protecting Life and Liberty shall be of paramount importance to our central government. Roe v Wade and all congressional acts, regulations, court opinions allowing legalized abortion or the taking of innocent human life are hereby rescinded, overruled, repealed, nullified and voided. Life is fully protected by the U.S. Government.
The Federal Reserve.
FAA, FDA, FCC, various federal ABC departments agencies and agencies. Which to close, which to remake with constitutional limits and authority, etc.
Etc, etc, etc.
Need lots of help with this document, folks. Please chime in. Would love to see a committee formed of members of every state to complete and finalize it. Then we should form and send delegates to a special national congress to work out the kinks and plan its presentation and execution.
This concept is an entirely peaceful altering of our despotic government per our unalienable right and duty. No where do I call for violence. The only force I call for is the force of numbers. We need millions of our citizens to sign on to this petition and execute its provisions. Will require millions to march on D.C. to block the government's ability to do business as usual. This is our right and duty as Americans.
That you did. My reply was really meant more as a reply to this thread in general than you in particular. It’s just that your name was at the top of the first page. I certainly don’t agree with you on most things, but I’m not going to smear you unjustly.
“Conservatives know that radical overthrow of existing insitutions is fraught with danger.”
“The radical leftists have already overthrown the existing institutions of our constitutional republic.”
Really. And they managed to do it without violent overthrow of the Government for the past 40 years.
Maybe you should pay more attention to my words and posts - like where I suggest we should LEARN and ADOPT the tactics and methods of the Left to win America back for freedom. If they could do all THEY did without a shot being fired, so can we. To assert otherwise is wimpy weak and defeatist.
“How can what he’s proposing possibly sound “radical” to you?” - gee, the part about deposing Obama and making Hillary President was a bit radical. And stupid.
“Or, do you think that being patriotic simply means that our role is to always stand passive, never doing anything proactive to protect and defend our own liberties?”
Passive? Nothing I said could be possibly construed that way. I propose the RIGHT kinds of actions that will SUCCEED, not pipedream calls to extreme action that most Americans like me will reject as nutty and over-the-top.
“What a cushy, sheltered life you must live, if you don’t see the present danger, or hear the klaxons blaring.”
instead of strawman argument questions and assertions that are opposite to reality, try paying attention to what people actually say. I dare say I’ve done more to put sand in the gears of the obama agenda than you know, and than you’ve done ... but all I ask is we all do what we can, *peacefully* and *lawfully* to Stop Obama and his socialist agenda.
“The Democrats in power have to live up to their promises or eat their own BS words. Make them. Lies about 95% of Americans getting a tax cut? Make them eat those words.”
“Why should they start living up to their promises now?”
That’s the POINT. They never do. The American people need to KNOW that OBAMA LIED.
The Democrats need to eat their lies on a daily basis.
Send a message to your newpaper: “Obama lied. Jobs died.” make that your sign for the next TEA Party protest.
“Obama lied. Jobs died.”
Make it your tagline. “Obama lied. Jobs died.”
Tell your neighbor: “Obama lied. Jobs died.”
Send out anti ObamaCare emails: “Obama lied. Jobs died.”
Friend, you are living in some sort of time warp if you think our current information society will be impressed by threats of violence rather than the real stuff of meme warfare - words, emotion, facts and media attention. The time for your sort of physical fighting back passed at least four generations ago.
The battle we fight is a battle of ideas. The pen is mightier than anything else right now. Wage the battle of IDEAS. There is no other worth fighting.
Here’s your beloved ‘system that works’...
Yes, Republicans, just wait idly for your chance to cast your omnipotent and powerful vote. You get one, they get...well...who knows, and who cares cuz we play by the rules.
“These people aren’t trying to destroy the country, don’t be so extreme, Boucheau! We’ll get our chance during the next election.”
“We’re above the fight, just play by the ‘rules’ and everything will be juuuuuuuust fine.”
This is but one example of how they are tearing the system down.
May I suggest that we don’t sit and wait for them to do us in?
The time to act is NOW!
You’d be a piss-poor political activist if you cant make a HUGE WINNING POLITICAL issue out of that stupid Obama admin decision. 70% of Americans support voter verification.
Rather than put words in other people’s mouths that dont reflect what they are really saying, put words in your own - what are YOU going to do to win back the majority of Americans to liberty? What are YOU going to do - that will acutally WORK and be REALISTIC - to roll back the Obama agenda?
But there were in Iran recently, and in Tianamen Square, at least video cameras in the latter instance..
Didn't help the "peaceful demonstrators" a bit.
“70% of Americans support voter verification.”
The 0bama administration, and the larger part of the Democrat Party doesn’t seem to give a damn what Americans want.
I’m not going to give you my ‘resume’, but I’m doing vastly more than most half-conscious Americans are doing.
I run a business, I take care of my family and I fight the left with the remaining time.
That’s all I’ve done for well over a year.
I’ve been an activist for the right for eight years.
I know what works with the left. Playing ‘nice-guy, above the fray conservative’ might have worked well in previous years, but the enemy we face now is true-blue hard-left and will tear your nice-guy throat out with a grin.
We’re trying to wake people up. The enemy is working outside the paradigm while most on the right, somewhere in la-la land, still believe we’re just one election cycle away from a Reagan resurrection—IT AIN’T HAPPENING THAT WAY, FOLKS.
It’s a great time to be on the hard-left. They have NEVER been so close to reaching crucial milestones that, if achieved, will, in effect, be the start of the end for the US, at least the one you have known and loved.
Socialized medicine will give them a huge boost in reaching the others. In fact, I believe that if they get health care it’s checkmate.
If they socialize medicine in the United States it won’t matter if there is a second-coming of Reagan. We will all serve under the umbrella of the hard-left by default at that point.
There will be no going back without bloodshed.
What on earth are you talking about? I haven't said a word about threatening anyone with violence.
What I have done, is supported the idea of getting a million or more angry Americans to protest the unconstitutional dismantling of our nation in DC on 9/12.
And, I fully support the idea of compelling the resignations of nearly every congressional rep, the VP, and the Resident while we're there. They are in a high state of TREASON to our country and to our people. They should step down, or be forced down.
If you think it takes violence to achieve that, then you're simply dubbing in your own imaginings.
The time for your sort of physical fighting back passed at least four generations ago.
What an incredibly naive and idiotic statement. You say that with such righteous puffery, while good men are putting their lives on the line for your worthless hide, halfway around the world.
And, if you don't think that Obama's faithful wouldn't gladly stomp your brains in, if given the opportunity, then you're suicidally naive.
The battle we fight is a battle of ideas. The pen is mightier than anything else right now. Wage the battle of IDEAS. There is no other worth fighting.
I'll give you a tip. It takes FORCE and INTELLIGENCE to win in this universe. They are not mutually exclusive.
You make very large assumptions for someone who's speaking to a complete stranger. You have no idea who I am, or what I've done.
Your type of braggadocio only works when you can do it anonymously, and from the safety of a computer. That crap wouldn't fly for two seconds in the real world, and you know it, so drop the holier-than-thou bullcrap.
My argument with you, is that you're taking one item out of Jim Rob's proposal, blowing it out of all proportion and reality, and expanding it into an argument against his whole agenda.
You're not the only one here who has disagreed with one or another of his ideas, but most others have simply voiced their reasoning and arguments against just those points they disagree with.
You appear to be attempting to usurp his entire proposal to substitute one of your own. You need to start your own thread, if that's what you want to do. Pitch your ideas, and see how many rally to your concept.
Jim Rob asked for constructive help in refining his basic concepts for this one major activist event. Either you've got some ideas that are helpful, or you don't. If you can't support what he wants to do, then bow out of the conversation. You've already made your point.
I agree that everything we do be within the Confines of the Law , Encouraging the American people to throw out the Bums that are doing nothing to stop this desent into Facism is just that. All I here when pundits and Newscasts talk about this Healthcare Obamanation is How Much it will cost nothing on what it means to all of our Freedoms,its as if our freedoms are for sale for the Lowest Price.
I am all for a Massive March on Washington ,but it will have to be just that MASSIVE or it will show that the Movement would be just a Last Dying Gasp for all of us
Now you're just stuck on stupid. When have the Democrats ever thought about keeping their promises or eating their own words? ROFL!!!!
For them it's all about getting elected, advancing socialism, seizing power and destroying America, re-making it into another European Socialist-like country.
My final words to you are this: What is being advocated on this thread is nothing more, nothing less than what our Founding Fathers did in declaring this country's independence from the King and establishing our rights to self governance. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are not "just words", they are the foundation upon which our Constitution and this county were built.
Our Constitution and Country are being systematically torn down at lightning speed. There is no more time to waste or wait. If you think there is, I'll remind you that each Tea Party back in April had dozens of camera's taking pictures of the crowds. That was widely reported. It was also an intimidation attempt by this Government. Our freedoms are being taken away daily. HealthCare is but one example, a "surtax" on the "wealthy" is another. Soon Gun Rights will come under fire. Anyone who disagrees with Obama is already labeled a racist or worse, simply because we disagree with his Socialist/Marxist policies - which have nothing to do with the color of his skin.
Our side is being marginalized daily by the liberal left media, which voted 95% for Obama. They no longer report the TRUTH about anything. They claim the economy is getting better (it is not) and no longer report on the War in Iraq or Afghanistan - at least in the market I live in.
This same media was in the tank for Obama from the beginning, and they were determined to get him elected. Obama got nothing but good covereage, every other candidate got hosed. The media continues their love-fest with Obama today.
Yet, demanding our rights be restored and that our grievances be addressed by this "Government" in the same manner of the Founding Fathers you'd call TREASON?
Got news for you, your type of cowardice is exactly why the Alexander, Hamilton, Jefferson, Adams, Henry, Franklin etc.. are all spinning in their graves, wondering what's happened to this country and why it was allowed to happen.
No more. If you're not willing to lead or follow then do yourself a favor - get the hell off the road because Moderates like you helped cause this problem and you're gonna get run over standing there in the middle of the road.
Here’s a few ideas:
We need provisions to further separate and diminish powers.
Some ideas for this end could include, prohibiting from anyone from working in more than one branch of the government, so if you work in the executive, you would be prohibited from working in the legislative or judicial for the remainder of your life.
Also, a prohibition against attorneys from running for public office, since their income is generated by the practice of law, when they are in positions that presents them to create law there is a conflict of interests.
2 term limit on all elected positions. Eliminate the existence of career politicians.
Transform the FCC into an elected body.
Congress shall make no law establishing the redistribution of wealth.
We need provisions that prohibit the passage of any legislation that move the nation away from a Constitutional Republic. It needs to be more than just Congress shall make no law, because as we have seen, they simply ignore those words.
There needs to be severe penalties. Some might suggest monetary penalties, but frankly I would suggest immediate dismissal from their position, and deportation should any elected official vote for a socialist and/or communist policy.
The 2nd amendment needs to be clarified, so that it is understood that any private citizen has the right to be as equally armed as any member of our military, without being questioned or harassed by government.
I have read dozens of times about ppl bringing weapons and creating an armed revolution. Jim, pls speak up on this. Our founders and our soldiers gave us a better way, our voice and our vote. If hundreds of armed ppl show up in DC our conservative movement will be steeped in blood. Please be the voice of our Republic Jim and tell them to leave their guns at home. First we march, then we vote. This call to arms is premature, but nonetheless we should be ready.
perhaps you've got me confused with another poster.
I understand your concerns about some of the posts on this thread that advocate radical actions. I would only remind those posters to remember what Free Republic is all about. It is about defending our Constitution through political action and peaceful demonstrations. We members of Free Republic are law biding American patriots who spread the truth and defend our Constitution through PEACEFUL means!
JimRob does NOT advocate any form of radical of violent action! All other grassroots groups that will be joining us in DC are also planning peaceful protest events to make our voices heard.
I request that any Freeper who chooses to post radical ideas to damage Free Republic's reputation to cease doing so.
WE FREE REPUBLIC MEMBERS ARE GOING TO WASHINGTON DC TO DEFEND OUR CONSTITUTION BY PEACEFUL MEANS!
SEE YOU IN DC FOR OUR NATIONAL FREE REPUBLIC TEA PARTY CONVENTION FROM 9/11-9/13!
I’ve been thinking long and hard about this post and I believe this idea is missing one key point. You will not affect change while over half the population of this country has no problem holding their hands out milking the government teat. Every type of group imaginable has marched on Washington, it makes news for a weekend, then it fades away. (unless something happens that will cause the media to demonize the marchers- let’s not go there.)
The key to change is not first changing DC, that is a symptom of the problem. The key is education of the people. Even a million people marching on DC is a gnat on the ass of the number of people who are big brother dependent.
The Conservative greats didn’t march demanding government change, they went straight to the people and told them how being your own person, free from the shackles of government “help” is a better life. The Conservative greats built up the individual in spite of whatever happens in DC.
Next year we have another election, this one could change the make-up of congress. The founding fathers put these gates in place so revolution would not be necessary. IMHO, we should have a year of massive education. We need to stop huddling up here and isolating ourselves and instead, take the message out to the people. Use FR as a staging point where we coordinate our message. We need to all focus on what unites us, not the little a-political crap like who is the best pop-tart, God vs.(sic) Darwin, or who their favorite golfer is that we seem to fight about far too often. It is time to tighten up the message and get back to the root of our principles.
Change will only come when the country’s attitude changes. All power in DC emanates from the consent of the governed. We need to acknowledge that the liberal policies are a failure on our part to educate the people.
IMHO, Anything more than a peaceful, informational march will simply be used as a tool by the left. The tea parties have been successful in rallying our side because they where positive and informational. No one tried to take over the government. No one tried to block traffic or stop work from being done. It is an appeal to the people.
JR’s goal is to “throw the bums out” - all of them.
He invokes the Declaration Of Independence.
How the he11 do you think that happens WITHOUT going that far?
You REALLY need to review the history of the Bonus Army.
JR’s path is heading straight toward a repeat.
The “bums” want to keep their power a whole lot more than march-supporting FReepers want to strip them of it.
YES! THROUGH PEACEFUL PROTEST TO MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD AND TO GIVE NOTICE THAT THE 2010 ELECTIONS WILL REMOVE FROM OFFICE ALL OFFICIALS WHO DO NOT OBAY THEIR OATH OF OFFICE!
As I stated above, the founding fathers put in gates every two years to prevent the need for another revolution but it is up to us to educate the voting public in order to shut that gate to those who are in there and get another group in. If change doesn’t happen, we can only blame ourselves.
“Grassroots conservative participation in the local elections built organizations that grew to elect state and federal candidates. It takes patience and is not as glamorous and entertaining as bantering about a revolt, but it is truly the effective and Constituional way.”
Do we have any reason to assume there will be elections in 2010 or 2012? Or that they will be fair if they are held? The last two national elections have been marred by massive fraud. With a census in 2010, taken by ACORN, and the redistricting which will follow, give you any security that future elections will produce an accurate count? The ousted President of Honduras rigged the voting machines in his nation. Hugo Chavez, one whom our Looter in Chief admires, has canceled elections.
I believe that expecting that there will be elections, as usual, in the future may be unrealistic. We may have a very narrow window of opportunity, three years, to salvage our Liberty.
Yawn. Have any other mass marches had significant effect of late? Million Man March - was trying to remember their issue. Promisekeepers - yeah, that really helped.
GIVE NOTICE THAT THE 2010 ELECTIONS WILL REMOVE FROM OFFICE ALL OFFICIALS WHO DO NOT OBAY THEIR OATH OF OFFICE!
Right, kid. [pats yelling seekthetruth on the head] Sure. Keep stomping your feet and yelling, they'll hear you. Yeah.
The "march in and bodily throw 'em out, roll back Constitutional amendments, and vote in a new mob while Hillary is interim President" now gives way to what, a few hours of yelling "play by the rules or we might not vote you back in next time"? Oooh, scary.
Hmmm. A few cheesed-off conservatives, vs. majority of voters pay no taxes and receive non-trivial benefits from the ever-growing gov't. Odds are looking pretty clear here.
The Founding Fathers thought tar-and-feathers were a perfectly reasonable starting point. Today, we're too scared to even go that far.
I believe you are being unrealistically negative about 2010. And if we screw that up, the rest is our fault. ACORN and the rest only have their effect on 2012 if we cannot reclaim the House with a coalition of the sane.
However, at the current rate, Obama will be hated in 2010, and this will be a hard hard situation for the Democrats. But, it is up to us to make the change and get House Committees up and running to clean up the mess.
Agree. That's why we should only use the peaceful techniques that the left have used. For example a "sit-in".
If the 17th amendment were repealed, as Jim Rob suggests, and state legislators once again appoint Senators, term limiting Senators would be an infringement on state sovereignty. I suppose term limiting congress critters could also be placing a restriction on the Liberty of an individual citizen to select who should represent him in Washington. Even so, I would support congressional term limits. If the 17th amendment remains in force I would support term limits on Senators.
PLEASE TAKE YOUR VIOLENT TALK ELSEWHERE!
Kindly indicate what, exactly, I said which you find so objectionable.
Nothing I wrote advocated such behavior. I merely observed the impotence of what didn’t work before and won’t work again.
I concur that all your mentioned changes must be made: it is imperative to do it in an orderly way. Else anarchy and chaos will be rampant.
Obama would/will declare ‘Marshal Law’ and move to remove (with force or shooting) all involved with such a up rising.
Not to be a nay sayer ... but a coup is the way to make changes in a disciplined way. Based on what I know of government. Not actual experience except life and age.
We must stop the ‘run away train’ that is headed full speed for America's total destruction: or a totally controlled slave form of existence.
God help us in our day. God bless America. In Jesus name. Amen.
We are looking more like Russia during Lenin's time everyday.
Congress and all elite politicians, do indeed want to remain in office. It looks that they believe that can TAKE OVER without a fight. Recently in Iran there was was an attempt at political protest. Look how that turned out in the end. To be effective we must have a plan and a back up.
You make a good point. All dictatorships that I can think of where triggered by someone taking power in the event of a crisis. They need a crisis to happen for the people to be willing to give up freedom. IMHO, that's why we need to go to the people, not to DC.
Dont be cute. On this thread are descriptions and statements - See #112, #128 " I think what is better his a "marshalling of forces" in the form of a "national militia". A full time paramilitary organization that had both full-time and part-time participants, including its own internal "court system" and intelligence apparatus. An organization that trains and plans on both the tactical and strategic level, while constructively engaging the US military whenever and where ever possible. " #758 "There will be no going back without bloodshed." #98 "This would clearly be an excuse for some throughout the nation to begin the riotingin other words, LOOTINGwhich is traditional for those who have spent their lives wanting something for nothing. Looters would have to be shot on sight."
There is also the clear analogy with the Revolution, where it took the death of thousands in the Revolutionary War to wrest control from King George. Either YES we are at that point or NO we are not. I say NO, we are not at that point, and it is extremist to say we are.
"And, I fully support the idea of compelling the resignations of nearly every congressional rep, the VP, and the Resident while we're there"
Asking? Fine. Compelling? And when you make that call and they say "NO! GO AWAY!" or just ignore you and bring DC police in, What will you do? Will you go away peaceably or get violent? (see above)
"They are in a high state of TREASON to our country and to our people. "
Treason is very specifically defined in the Constitution. If you got the goods, explain it. So far nobody has made that case. Imposing higher taxes and Big Government may be stupid and wrong, going on apology tours may be bad for our national security, and giving ACORN money may be corrupt and vile, but none of it falls under the definition of treason in the Constitution. We have a bad President, but just because he's a bad President doesnt make it treason. Jimmy Carter, LBJ and FDR were bad too. We survived. Youve got the goods or you are just bloviating rhetoric.
"The time for your sort of physical fighting back passed at least four generations ago.
What an incredibly naive and idiotic statement.
Funny, I'd say exactly that about your response.
"You say that with such righteous puffery, while good men are putting their lives on the line for your worthless hide, halfway around the world."
Wow, you really are unhinged. Now you are engaging in the false rhetoric of displacement. You know perfectly well that I am speaking of violence and revolutionary/extra-legal acts WITHIN our system of Government, and not against foreign enemies. The issue and discussion is the unwarranted and unwise call to depose outside of an election the elected officials who are currently running our Government. You see, I really love and respect our men and women in uniform who are protecting our nation. One of the great things about our military is an unbroken record of support of the existing Government and Constitution. We have rarely if ever had to fear our own military in our own country, a blessing indeed. The exception was when a bunch of foolhardy blowhards thought it was a good idea to secede when they didnt like the outcome of the 1860 election. Lesson: Foolhardy blowhardism is no way to run your politics and can end very badly.
Surely we deserve better than Reid, Pelosi and other clowns in power. But calling for a coup d'etat against them is ... what's that word you used - oh yes, Stuck on Stupid.
"They should step down, or be forced down."
So much for your "I haven't said a word about threatening anyone with violence" BS ... "Forced"? Really?!? You and whose army?
If you think it takes violence to achieve that, then you're simply dubbing in your own imaginings. ...
how do you force them down if not via violence or threat of violence? Flinging monkey poo at them? Staring contest? Botox Pelosi will beat you at that for sure. I am so glad you think it wont take violence, but you might want to check with some of the other folks on this thread who have other 'imaginings' they are dubbing in to this.
Oh, I know, there wont be real violence. But neither will there be anything approaching any change in who is in Congress or in the White House. Right now. After 912 march happens, Obama will still be President and Pelosi will still be speaker - UNTIL THE NEXT ELECTION. To suggest and propose otherwise is a pipe-dream diversion, and believing that its worth pursuing is just extremist blowhardism of folks who have more lofty intentions and strong emotions than strategic thinking and logical thought.
The RIGHT way to do this is to stay away from unhinged and extremist calls to go outside the law, insist on a peaceful protest and do it the way the leftists do it: Surround the Congress and have a "SIT IN". Dont go away until they give in to your demands. And I listed the 5 demands, which are nothing more than the 5 things the TEA Party protests have protested.
“You make a good point. All dictatorships that I can think of where triggered by someone taking power in the event of a crisis. They need a crisis to happen for the people to be willing to give up freedom. IMHO, that’s why we need to go to the people, not to DC. “
Another EXCELLENT REASON to make sure any march is 100% peaceful and 100% law-abiding. THere is no crisis except the crisis of lack of good leadership. Dont give Obama his “Reichstag fire” moment. They are ready to find excuses to spring Fairness Doctrine on us.
I like this plan. I have one question: What about our troops in harms way? With upheavel here, our enemies would no doubt take that time to capture/kill/etc our military members. Has any one got any ideas about protecting them?
That was my point to you sir. You have no idea who you are bashing with your attack on me. Nothing I said was boasting. If you want to know more, we can go to Freepmail.
"My argument with you, is that you're taking one item out of Jim Rob's proposal, blowing it out of all proportion and reality, and expanding it into an argument against his whole agenda."
Ahem. My argument is against the item, not the agenda. I already told him and others - if you want to make all these changes within the laws and Constitution, fine, be my guest. But calling the call for removal of people from office NOW is outside the law. Dont got there. Calling that a small item is itself a distortion. For goshsakes, get a clue, calling for removal of duly elected public officials is an action outside the law and Constitution. Calling it 'one item' is like a "other than that, how was the show, Mrs Lincoln?" statement. Dont be clueless or cute.
"You appear to be attempting to usurp his entire proposal to substitute one of your own."
My proposal is just a summation of what TEA Party folks have been saying all year.
"Jim Rob asked for constructive help in refining his basic concepts for this one major activist event."
Which is what I gave. my constructive criticism is to stay 100% within the law, make sure this is 100% peaceful and lawabiding and do nothing and propose nothing that goes outside the law or Consitution. If you love the Constitution, abide by it. That is the sum of my constructive criticism.
If there are one million patriotic taxpaying American citizens who peacefully protest the loss of freedom and the bankrupting of our treasury on September 12, and through this protest alert America to how wrong the Obama agenda is, and help stop it, it will be a huge success.
“I believe that expecting that there will be elections, as usual, in the future may be unrealistic.”
I heard the same nonsense after the 1984 elections from a college room-mate who was sure that the re-election of Ronald Reagan meant the end of democracy in America.
I believe that real American patriots have more faith in our over 200-year-old system of Government than to think it will all collapse just because the wrong people got elected.
You’re right and I apologize. It’s just that some other more bellicose posters have used it. This is supposed to be a non-violent thing, but that quote means literal bloodshed.
If the tone of the thread is the tone of the movement, I’m out.
There are some great people here, but I’m uncomfortable now.
“The Founding Fathers thought tar-and-feathers were a perfectly reasonable starting point. Today, we’re too scared to even go that far. “
Then you said:
“Nothing I wrote advocated such behavior.”
Are you advocating tar-and-feathers, or do you agree that we should NOT go that far and that violence against anyone in America is WRONG?
“I merely observed the impotence of what didnt work before and wont work again.”
Maybe a lecture on the impotence of violence in recent decades is in order as well then. Don’t you agree?
This is not treason.
It's the implication and invocation of the Constitution of the United States of America.
“The 0bama administration, and the larger part of the Democrat Party doesnt seem to give a damn what Americans want.”
Not quite true. Like all politicians, their #1 concern is getting re-elected. We cant change Obama without defeating him in 2012, but we can get Senators and Congresscritters to react by putting heat on them. It’s how immigration amnesty was derailed in 2007. We still need to defeat Democrats in 2010 to get rid of Pelosi as speaker but in the meantime, citizen unrest will help.
“Im not going to give you my resume, but Im doing vastly more than most half-conscious Americans are doing.” That’s fine. Just understand that I’m in the same boat/category.
“Socialized medicine will give them a huge boost in reaching the others. In fact, I believe that if they get health care its checkmate.”
I agree, which is why the SMART thing for us on the side of liberty to do is to FOCUS on making that our #1 target for activism.
That’s why the ObamaCare protests are so great. They are having an effect. Polls are shifting. The Dems knew this up front and so they wanted to rush to get something passed.
If we can stop the ObamaCare vote from happening in August, and then followup with the 912 march, It could derail ObamaCare completely.
Smart activists have set realistic and unifying goals. Stopping ObamaCare is a realistic and unifying goal for Tea Party, Freepers, Republicans, and others opposed to Obama’s socialism. It’s the Big Enchilada right now. If it passes, Obama has in effect deep sixed our healthcare, our freedom, our Federal budget, state rights, patients rights, doctors and healthcare innovation, all in one fell swoop.
OTOH stopping that could stop Obama’s agenda in his tracks.
I totally agree(post 775). If we use the same peaceful techniques the left has successfully used we take away one weapon the media is sure to use against us.
A massive sit-in would be great! Bring the tents and camp out on the mall.
Then you should have made that clear.
Putting "all" or another qualifier in the "to" window would clarify that.
Otherwise it served the purpose of putting words into Robinson's mouth that did not in any way express his thoughts or what he is proposing.
Just what the progressive leftists and enemies of America are looking for on this site.
"The 2nd Paragraph Movement".
We know you have proposed a PEACEFUL march, Jim! But there seem to be some who are doing their best to turn law biding Freepers away from going to DC for our peaceful Tea Party.
Let's examine those who are choosing to advocate any form of violence. Are they members in good standing? Do they donate to Free Republic? Do they donate to our TroopAThons? Are they really trolls who are trying to give the MSM comments to run with to trash FR?
WE LAW BIDING FREEPER PATRIOTS NEED TO STOP THOSE NEGATIVE POSTERS IN THEIR TRACKS AND TELL THEM TO LEAVE FREE REPUBLIC!
Oh, where to begin! :-)
1. You prove my point. That which was deemed a harmless expression of dissatisfaction is now deemed unthinkably horrible.
2. Merely observing what constituted a “perfectly reasonable starting point” in no way equates to advocating going too far.
3. Apparently all is impotence with you. May chains rest lightly...
My 9 year old granddaughter and I are anticipating a peaceful protest.
We are not going to be involved in any violence. This is just what the MSM is praying for; they are licking their chops in anticipation of the chance to destroy FR.
I suggest that we report anyone, including FReepers, that show up with guns. This is not acceptable!
The American Revolution (1770's) wasn't started by the military. But the American military certainly finished it.
“An interim provisional Chief Executive and congressional representatives will be established as follows:
The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive. The Chief Executive shall appoint and the interim Senate shall confirm an interim Vice President.”
You do realize you are calling for installing Hillary as interim President don’t you?
“Oh, where to begin! :-)”
Uh, how about start by answering my questions.
Slavery wasnt unthinkable then and is now. Why is tar-and-feathering any different? So what if our founders had to get violent to win freedom. They lived under a king and we live in a democratic Republic. Big diff. What do you advocate we do NOW?
Of course. She’s 4th in line of constitutional succession to the presidency and we just fired the 1st, 2nd and 3rd: Biden, Pelosi and Byrd. I looked it up on wikipedia.
Other than that she’s twice the man Obama is and will delight in taking out the Obama trash!
Hell hath no fury like Hillary scorned!
God works in mysterious ways.
I like the way you think!
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