Posted on 07/18/2009 11:30:17 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
Edited on 07/18/2009 11:48:33 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
* * R O U G H * * D R A F T * *
(continuing my remarks from prior thread)
Here is our recourse as declared by our Founding Fathers:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
It cannot be denied that the central government has become destructive of our unalienable rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and our rights to live free. The government is no longer responsive to we the People. They have stretched and shredded the constitution to the point that they have illegally seized for themselves virtually unlimited powers over the citizens and act as if we have no rights and no powers of our own. They are acting without our consent.
Our Founders established that when our government becomes destructive of our rights then it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
We have reached the point where the government's long train of abuses and usurpations has achieved absolute Despotism, therefore it is our right, it is our duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for our future security.
Therefore, We the People of America choose to exercise our right to throw off and alter the abusive government by peacefully recalling and removing from office the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States and all U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives effective immediately.
An interim provisional Chief Executive and congressional representatives will be established as follows:
The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive. The Chief Executive shall appoint and the interim Senate shall confirm an interim Vice President.
An immediate election shall be held within each state legislature to appoint two interim senators to represent each sovereign state.
A special election shall be held by all states within 30 days to elect interim members of the House of Representatives.
Elections for regular government offices shall be conducted in November, 2010 as previously scheduled, except that elections will be held for all elective offices, including President, Vice President and all U.S. Representatives. U.S. Senators will be elected per class schedule by the various state legislatures.
We alter the government to provide new Guards for our future security as follows:
The Constitution of the United States must be kept intact and must be adhered to and strictly followed by all government entities as originally intended. The government has stretched the constitutional limits well beyond those intended by our founders. We must take steps to ensure that this is corrected and that the out of control government is reined in and that sufficient measures are introduced to maintain the limits, checks and balances on government and that government powers are strictly limited to those enumerated in the constitution and that our rights are reestablished, reaffirmed, re-secured and safeguarded. We must restore and reestablish the sovereignty of the people and the states and restore the constitutional balances between the central government, the various states and we the people. The constitution severely restricts government powers and guarantees unalienable freedom and Liberty to the people.
As we restore constitutionally limited government several wrongs must be righted:
The central government has illegally expanded its powers. They've done this by ignoring or stretching their constitutional limits. They have usurped powers limited to the states and the people. We must reestablish and reaffirm the enumerated powers and limit the central government strictly to just those powers. They've built huge power bases by allowing senators and representatives to be full time professional career positions. We eliminate this by establishing strict qualifications for office and term limits.
We must reestablish and reaffirm the powers to the states and the people as defined by the 9th and 10th amendments.
The central government has denied the states their constitutionally guaranteed republican form of government by introducing the 17th amendment which alters the way the senators which were to represent the sovereign interests of the various states to the central government. We must reestablish that representation by repealing the 17th amendment and allowing the state legislatures of the various states to elect their own senators as intended by our founders. This was never intended to be a function of the people. We the People are represented to the central government by our elected representatives in the House of Representatives. The sovereign states were to be represented by the state's senators to keep central powers and encroachment in check. Power is from the people to the states, and from the states to the central government. They've turned this upside down and inside out. We must correct it.
We hereby repeal the 17th amendment.
The central government has expanded well beyond the limits established for it by the founders and pay for that expansion by directly taxing the people and severely restricting our rights through an enslaving income tax.
We hereby repeal the 16th amendment.
The IRS and all sub departments and agencies are hereby dissolved, disbanded and closed.
The newly elected congress will establish rules and schedules for assessing and collecting fees, tariffs and excise taxes to support the armed forces and all constitutionally authorized departments of The United States Government per the Constitution of the United States (see schedule).
The central government is hereby stripped of all illegal powers and all departments and agencies not authorized by the constitution are hereby dissolved and disbanded. Their current budgets are hereby withdrawn. All disbanded department funds and liquid assets are to be immediately returned to the US Treasury. A list and methods for achieving this is provided in schedule xxx.
Ownership and responsibility for all federally held buildings, lands, parks, waterways, oceans, seas, etc, other than those in Washington, D.C. or military bases, forts, reservations, or local federal buildings owned by valid constitutional federal departments (see schedule) are hereby transferred to the sovereign state governments within which they reside or are located.
Responsibility for all natural resources found within any of the various states or within lands, oceans, lakes, rivers, waterways, seas out through our international boundary limits are hereby returned to the various states. All laws for mining, drilling, logging, or otherwise capitalizing on any minerals or natural resources are to be determined by the various states within which said resources are found.
The social security system is hereby dissolved, disbanded and closed. All social security funds being held by the federal government are to be returned to the private retirement accounts of the individuals owning them. A special fund will be establish for all current recipients and new recipients according to schedule xxy and the social security system shall be phased out accordingly. The funds to support current social security benefits shall become the responsibility of the states within which the recipients reside.
No revenues accruing to the federal government shall be disbursed to any state, city or local government for any reason whatsoever. Or used to subsidize or benefit any government or private entity, organization or person, other than those explicitly authorized and enumerated in the constitution.
All states are hereby solely responsible for any and all revenues or funds required to operate their sovereign states. The central government is not obligated to and shall not interfere in state government or local affairs.
The interstate commerce clause shall be applied strictly to regulating interstate commerce as originally established and intended by our founders. No stretches or reinterpretations of any kind shall be allowed.
Our first unalienable right is the right to life. Protecting Life and Liberty shall be of paramount importance to our central government. Roe v Wade and all congressional acts, regulations, court opinions allowing legalized abortion or the taking of innocent human life are hereby rescinded, overruled, repealed, nullified and voided. Life is fully protected by the U.S. Government.
The Federal Reserve.
Border security.
Medicare.
FAA, FDA, FCC, various federal ABC departments agencies and agencies. Which to close, which to remake with constitutional limits and authority, etc.
Federal Pensions.
Etc, etc, etc.
Need lots of help with this document, folks. Please chime in. Would love to see a committee formed of members of every state to complete and finalize it. Then we should form and send delegates to a special national congress to work out the kinks and plan its presentation and execution.
This concept is an entirely peaceful altering of our despotic government per our unalienable right and duty. No where do I call for violence. The only force I call for is the force of numbers. We need millions of our citizens to sign on to this petition and execute its provisions. Will require millions to march on D.C. to block the government's ability to do business as usual. This is our right and duty as Americans.
Dont be cute. On this thread are descriptions and statements - See #112, #128 " I think what is better his a "marshalling of forces" in the form of a "national militia". A full time paramilitary organization that had both full-time and part-time participants, including its own internal "court system" and intelligence apparatus. An organization that trains and plans on both the tactical and strategic level, while constructively engaging the US military whenever and where ever possible. " #758 "There will be no going back without bloodshed." #98 "This would clearly be an excuse for some throughout the nation to begin the rioting—in other words, LOOTING—which is traditional for those who have spent their lives wanting something for nothing. Looters would have to be shot on sight."
There is also the clear analogy with the Revolution, where it took the death of thousands in the Revolutionary War to wrest control from King George. Either YES we are at that point or NO we are not. I say NO, we are not at that point, and it is extremist to say we are.
"And, I fully support the idea of compelling the resignations of nearly every congressional rep, the VP, and the Resident while we're there"
Asking? Fine. Compelling? And when you make that call and they say "NO! GO AWAY!" or just ignore you and bring DC police in, What will you do? Will you go away peaceably or get violent? (see above)
"They are in a high state of TREASON to our country and to our people. "
Treason is very specifically defined in the Constitution. If you got the goods, explain it. So far nobody has made that case. Imposing higher taxes and Big Government may be stupid and wrong, going on apology tours may be bad for our national security, and giving ACORN money may be corrupt and vile, but none of it falls under the definition of treason in the Constitution. We have a bad President, but just because he's a bad President doesnt make it treason. Jimmy Carter, LBJ and FDR were bad too. We survived. Youve got the goods or you are just bloviating rhetoric.
"The time for your sort of physical fighting back passed at least four generations ago.
What an incredibly naive and idiotic statement.
Funny, I'd say exactly that about your response.
"You say that with such righteous puffery, while good men are putting their lives on the line for your worthless hide, halfway around the world."
Wow, you really are unhinged. Now you are engaging in the false rhetoric of displacement. You know perfectly well that I am speaking of violence and revolutionary/extra-legal acts WITHIN our system of Government, and not against foreign enemies. The issue and discussion is the unwarranted and unwise call to depose outside of an election the elected officials who are currently running our Government. You see, I really love and respect our men and women in uniform who are protecting our nation. One of the great things about our military is an unbroken record of support of the existing Government and Constitution. We have rarely if ever had to fear our own military in our own country, a blessing indeed. The exception was when a bunch of foolhardy blowhards thought it was a good idea to secede when they didnt like the outcome of the 1860 election. Lesson: Foolhardy blowhardism is no way to run your politics and can end very badly.
Surely we deserve better than Reid, Pelosi and other clowns in power. But calling for a coup d'etat against them is ... what's that word you used - oh yes, Stuck on Stupid.
"They should step down, or be forced down."
So much for your "I haven't said a word about threatening anyone with violence" BS ... "Forced"? Really?!? You and whose army?
If you think it takes violence to achieve that, then you're simply dubbing in your own imaginings. ...
how do you force them down if not via violence or threat of violence? Flinging monkey poo at them? Staring contest? Botox Pelosi will beat you at that for sure. I am so glad you think it wont take violence, but you might want to check with some of the other folks on this thread who have other 'imaginings' they are dubbing in to this.
Oh, I know, there wont be real violence. But neither will there be anything approaching any change in who is in Congress or in the White House. Right now. After 912 march happens, Obama will still be President and Pelosi will still be speaker - UNTIL THE NEXT ELECTION. To suggest and propose otherwise is a pipe-dream diversion, and believing that its worth pursuing is just extremist blowhardism of folks who have more lofty intentions and strong emotions than strategic thinking and logical thought.
The RIGHT way to do this is to stay away from unhinged and extremist calls to go outside the law, insist on a peaceful protest and do it the way the leftists do it: Surround the Congress and have a "SIT IN". Dont go away until they give in to your demands. And I listed the 5 demands, which are nothing more than the 5 things the TEA Party protests have protested.
“You make a good point. All dictatorships that I can think of where triggered by someone taking power in the event of a crisis. They need a crisis to happen for the people to be willing to give up freedom. IMHO, that’s why we need to go to the people, not to DC. “
Another EXCELLENT REASON to make sure any march is 100% peaceful and 100% law-abiding. THere is no crisis except the crisis of lack of good leadership. Dont give Obama his “Reichstag fire” moment. They are ready to find excuses to spring Fairness Doctrine on us.
I like this plan. I have one question: What about our troops in harms way? With upheavel here, our enemies would no doubt take that time to capture/kill/etc our military members. Has any one got any ideas about protecting them?
That was my point to you sir. You have no idea who you are bashing with your attack on me. Nothing I said was boasting. If you want to know more, we can go to Freepmail.
"My argument with you, is that you're taking one item out of Jim Rob's proposal, blowing it out of all proportion and reality, and expanding it into an argument against his whole agenda."
Ahem. My argument is against the item, not the agenda. I already told him and others - if you want to make all these changes within the laws and Constitution, fine, be my guest. But calling the call for removal of people from office NOW is outside the law. Dont got there. Calling that a small item is itself a distortion. For goshsakes, get a clue, calling for removal of duly elected public officials is an action outside the law and Constitution. Calling it 'one item' is like a "other than that, how was the show, Mrs Lincoln?" statement. Dont be clueless or cute.
"You appear to be attempting to usurp his entire proposal to substitute one of your own."
My proposal is just a summation of what TEA Party folks have been saying all year.
"Jim Rob asked for constructive help in refining his basic concepts for this one major activist event."
Which is what I gave. my constructive criticism is to stay 100% within the law, make sure this is 100% peaceful and lawabiding and do nothing and propose nothing that goes outside the law or Consitution. If you love the Constitution, abide by it. That is the sum of my constructive criticism.
If there are one million patriotic taxpaying American citizens who peacefully protest the loss of freedom and the bankrupting of our treasury on September 12, and through this protest alert America to how wrong the Obama agenda is, and help stop it, it will be a huge success.
“I believe that expecting that there will be elections, as usual, in the future may be unrealistic.”
I heard the same nonsense after the 1984 elections from a college room-mate who was sure that the re-election of Ronald Reagan meant the end of democracy in America.
I believe that real American patriots have more faith in our over 200-year-old system of Government than to think it will all collapse just because the wrong people got elected.
You’re right and I apologize. It’s just that some other more bellicose posters have used it. This is supposed to be a non-violent thing, but that quote means literal bloodshed.
If the tone of the thread is the tone of the movement, I’m out.
There are some great people here, but I’m uncomfortable now.
You said:
“The Founding Fathers thought tar-and-feathers were a perfectly reasonable starting point. Today, we’re too scared to even go that far. “
Then you said:
“Nothing I wrote advocated such behavior.”
Are you advocating tar-and-feathers, or do you agree that we should NOT go that far and that violence against anyone in America is WRONG?
“I merely observed the impotence of what didn’t work before and won’t work again.”
Maybe a lecture on the impotence of violence in recent decades is in order as well then. Don’t you agree?
This is not treason.
It's the implication and invocation of the Constitution of the United States of America.
“The 0bama administration, and the larger part of the Democrat Party doesn’t seem to give a damn what Americans want.”
Not quite true. Like all politicians, their #1 concern is getting re-elected. We cant change Obama without defeating him in 2012, but we can get Senators and Congresscritters to react by putting heat on them. It’s how immigration amnesty was derailed in 2007. We still need to defeat Democrats in 2010 to get rid of Pelosi as speaker but in the meantime, citizen unrest will help.
“I’m not going to give you my ‘resume’, but I’m doing vastly more than most half-conscious Americans are doing.” That’s fine. Just understand that I’m in the same boat/category.
“Socialized medicine will give them a huge boost in reaching the others. In fact, I believe that if they get health care it’s checkmate.”
I agree, which is why the SMART thing for us on the side of liberty to do is to FOCUS on making that our #1 target for activism.
That’s why the ObamaCare protests are so great. They are having an effect. Polls are shifting. The Dems knew this up front and so they wanted to rush to get something passed.
If we can stop the ObamaCare vote from happening in August, and then followup with the 912 march, It could derail ObamaCare completely.
Smart activists have set realistic and unifying goals. Stopping ObamaCare is a realistic and unifying goal for Tea Party, Freepers, Republicans, and others opposed to Obama’s socialism. It’s the Big Enchilada right now. If it passes, Obama has in effect deep sixed our healthcare, our freedom, our Federal budget, state rights, patients rights, doctors and healthcare innovation, all in one fell swoop.
OTOH stopping that could stop Obama’s agenda in his tracks.
I totally agree(post 775). If we use the same peaceful techniques the left has successfully used we take away one weapon the media is sure to use against us.
A massive sit-in would be great! Bring the tents and camp out on the mall.
Then you should have made that clear.
Putting "all" or another qualifier in the "to" window would clarify that.
Otherwise it served the purpose of putting words into Robinson's mouth that did not in any way express his thoughts or what he is proposing.
Just what the progressive leftists and enemies of America are looking for on this site.
"The 2nd Paragraph Movement".
We know you have proposed a PEACEFUL march, Jim! But there seem to be some who are doing their best to turn law biding Freepers away from going to DC for our peaceful Tea Party.
Let's examine those who are choosing to advocate any form of violence. Are they members in good standing? Do they donate to Free Republic? Do they donate to our TroopAThons? Are they really trolls who are trying to give the MSM comments to run with to trash FR?
WE LAW BIDING FREEPER PATRIOTS NEED TO STOP THOSE NEGATIVE POSTERS IN THEIR TRACKS AND TELL THEM TO LEAVE FREE REPUBLIC!
Oh, where to begin! :-)
1. You prove my point. That which was deemed a harmless expression of dissatisfaction is now deemed unthinkably horrible.
2. Merely observing what constituted a “perfectly reasonable starting point” in no way equates to advocating going too far.
3. Apparently all is impotence with you. May chains rest lightly...
My 9 year old granddaughter and I are anticipating a peaceful protest.
We are not going to be involved in any violence. This is just what the MSM is praying for; they are licking their chops in anticipation of the chance to destroy FR.
I suggest that we report anyone, including FReepers, that show up with guns. This is not acceptable!
The American Revolution (1770's) wasn't started by the military. But the American military certainly finished it.
“An interim provisional Chief Executive and congressional representatives will be established as follows:
The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive. The Chief Executive shall appoint and the interim Senate shall confirm an interim Vice President.”
You do realize you are calling for installing Hillary as interim President don’t you?
“Oh, where to begin! :-)”
Uh, how about start by answering my questions.
Slavery wasnt unthinkable then and is now. Why is tar-and-feathering any different? So what if our founders had to get violent to win freedom. They lived under a king and we live in a democratic Republic. Big diff. What do you advocate we do NOW?
Of course. She’s 4th in line of constitutional succession to the presidency and we just fired the 1st, 2nd and 3rd: Biden, Pelosi and Byrd. I looked it up on wikipedia.
Other than that she’s twice the man Obama is and will delight in taking out the Obama trash!
Hell hath no fury like Hillary scorned!
God works in mysterious ways.
I like the way you think!
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