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Resist The Urge To Punish Success ( RE: Goldman Sachs)
Washington Post ^ | Sunday, July 19, 2009 | Mark Gimein

Posted on 07/20/2009 12:21:49 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

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Punchline:

******************************************EXCERPT******************************

Goldman-haters like to weave a narrative that connects the dots between Goldmanites and former Goldmanites who are supposed to rule the world in a one-degree-of-Goldman Sachs fashion.

1 posted on 07/20/2009 12:21:49 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

What was that quote from the Rolling Stone article last week...??

“If the economy is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs will figure out a way to profit from being the pipe...”

Or words to that effect....


2 posted on 07/20/2009 12:24:45 PM PDT by Bean Counter ( Shovel ready...)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Considering that Goldman, Morgan Stanley and their alumni in government played a major role in creating the inferno on the first place, as far as I’m concerned, to some extent they are now getting insurance payments for fires they helped start.


3 posted on 07/20/2009 12:26:11 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

rebuttal to this article here http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2296829/posts


4 posted on 07/20/2009 12:26:27 PM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

We don’t want to “punish Goldman for having been right”, we want to punish them for manipulating the system for profit and stealing taxpayers money.


5 posted on 07/20/2009 12:29:51 PM PDT by anonsquared (Jim Thompson made me do it!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
a small club, basically just Goldman and J.P. Morgan Chase -- that have been smart and greedy enough to succeed.

Smart??? Didn't Ayn Rand have a phrase "the aristocracy of pull"? Or to put it in terms of Chicago politics, the aristocracy of clout?

6 posted on 07/20/2009 12:30:34 PM PDT by omega4412 (Terrorism is a symptom. Islam is the disease.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

resist the urge to punish success??

since when has this been policy at the POST?

When it is a criminal enterprise that owns the TOTUS?


7 posted on 07/20/2009 12:30:48 PM PDT by GeronL (UnitedCitizen.Blogspot.Com --------- United Citizens Nation! ------------- Join Today!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Well the Wash comPost can perfectly legally sell access to “non governmental” institutions like Goldman Sucks.


8 posted on 07/20/2009 12:32:49 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: GeronL

That was my thought....always suspicious of the Post...and the NY Times.


9 posted on 07/20/2009 12:40:09 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Goldman and J.P. Morgan are reaping great rewards as the last firms standing in a game in which everyone else has been cowed or crushed.

Goldman and J.P. Morgan executives have earned the same reward given to Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker.

10 posted on 07/20/2009 12:50:45 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

The GOP needs to embrace Ron Paul and run against Goldman Sachs like the RATs ran against Halliburton. Join GS and the DNC at the hip and run against them as ONE enemy. We will sweep the 2010 elections.


11 posted on 07/20/2009 1:06:41 PM PDT by FreepShop1
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To: anonsquared
You are a liar, and they haven't stolen a dime. (Every dollar they *borrowed* they repaid with interest). But the US government has stolen tens of billions from them at gunpoint and does so every year.

The financial industry pays one fifth of all US taxes, alone.

12 posted on 07/20/2009 1:08:40 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: FreepShop1
Ron Paul needs to start his own fascist party and just come right out and blame everything on dem joos. And his supporters need to get the heck out of my party.
13 posted on 07/20/2009 1:09:40 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

“Resist The Urge To Punish Success”

RATS think NOT giving things to the poor is “punishing” them, yet they dont consider it punishment to take things away from people who earn it.


14 posted on 07/20/2009 1:12:34 PM PDT by Hacklehead (Liberalism is the art of taking what works, breaking it, and then blaming conservatives.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This article is such BS. Goldman Sachs, that branch of the DNC, made profit because they stole American taxpayer money. This is what we call crony capitalism.


15 posted on 07/20/2009 1:17:27 PM PDT by KC_Conspirator (Still waiting for journalists ask Obama how he'll "heal" a deeply divided nation- FreeperOldDeckHand)
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To: FreepShop1

Rolling Stone’s Matt Taibbi’s great article is a must read for every thinking American.

(about 10% of the population).


16 posted on 07/20/2009 1:21:21 PM PDT by DontTreadOnMe2009 (So stop treading on me already!)
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To: JasonC

Come on wall street, isn’t the ephithet “liar” a little extreme?
‘specially if you consider that without the intervention of the government to protect them from catastrophic losses they had so cunningly insured against with worthless scraps of AIG paper Goldman would be bankrupt today?


17 posted on 07/20/2009 1:55:06 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: JasonC
You are a liar, and they haven't stolen a dime.

They got $13 billion from the fed bailout of AIG, made possible by former GS Chairman Paulsen.

Face it, it's all intertwined and corrupt, and you are one of the few pom-pom wavers left on FR for this level of goverment/Wall Street/Fed corruption.

18 posted on 07/20/2009 1:55:47 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: nkycincinnatikid; dirtboy

How much profit do you think GS should be limited to?


19 posted on 07/20/2009 2:06:33 PM PDT by Jacquerie (That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men.)
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To: Jacquerie
How much profit do you think GS should be limited to?

What they can earn without massive government intervention, and without setting up the bowling pins for another financial meltdown.

20 posted on 07/20/2009 2:11:19 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Jacquerie

I would highly reccommend you read the article linked to in post 4 and get back to us.


21 posted on 07/20/2009 2:12:41 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

$3.5 billion sure is a lot of quarterly profit. Would $1 billion satiate your rage?


22 posted on 07/20/2009 2:33:40 PM PDT by Jacquerie (That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men.)
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To: Jacquerie
$3.5 billion sure is a lot of quarterly profit. Would $1 billion satiate your rage?

$13 billion of government bailout dwarfs it all, jackass.

23 posted on 07/20/2009 2:36:08 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

If simple, direct questions anger you, you are at the wrong forum. There are other sites more suitable to your demeanor.


24 posted on 07/20/2009 2:43:49 PM PDT by Jacquerie (That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men.)
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To: Jacquerie
If simple, direct questions anger you, you are at the wrong forum. There are other sites more suitable to your demeanor.

Simple, direct questions don't bother me. Weasels who overlook the fact that GS got $13 billion in bailout money via AIG do.

25 posted on 07/20/2009 2:46:08 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: JasonC

There were some recent articles on a theft of GS trading code. One story reported (excerpt):

“because of the way this software interfaces with the various markets and exchanges, the bank has warned it could be used to “manipulate markets in unfair ways”

From: http://www.cnbc.com/id/31783285.

My question is: How do they know the software can be used to manipulate the market in unfair ways? And does this have any relationship to their $6.8 billion in second quarter trading profits?


26 posted on 07/20/2009 2:48:52 PM PDT by mike70
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

1. This guy has friends or relatives @ GS hence he’s carrying water for them. A shill, a mouthpiece. That’s to be polite, I should call him a simple whore, but that would be insulting to whores who can and do provide pleasure, however transient. GS just screws America and doesn’t even bother asking if it was good for us, too.

2. If I got a few billion from the goobers, I could be highly successful too.

GS employees should be thankful they ain’t hanging from lamp posts or adorning the trees of Central Park.


27 posted on 07/20/2009 2:50:58 PM PDT by swarthyguy (MEAT, the new tobacco. Your right to eat meat ends where my planetary ecosystem begins.)
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To: dirtboy

So how much profit is appropriate? Just asking.


28 posted on 07/20/2009 2:51:26 PM PDT by Jacquerie (That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men.)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Jacquerie
So how much profit is appropriate? Just asking.

And once again, I answered you.

So here are some questions to you - do YOU have a problem with the fact that GS got $13 billion in AIG bailout money? And that their former chairman was the architect of that bailout? Do you think AIG would be posting a $3.5 billion profit now without that bailout money? Do you have a problem with such an incestuous relationship between the Treasury Secretary and a financial firm?

31 posted on 07/20/2009 2:55:57 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Jacquerie

First of all, I think that is a very stupid and irrelevant question.
Secondly Goldman Sucks is a taxpayer charity, what kind of profits are other charities limited to?
OK, the same then.


32 posted on 07/20/2009 3:00:24 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: nkycincinnatikid
Nonsense, AIG paying up netted them about what they earned in one quarter, only.

Any lie is considered acceptable if the target is a rich financier or firm. Why? Because hatred of capitalism is rampant.

33 posted on 07/20/2009 3:04:21 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: nkycincinnatikid

If it was a stupid question, why did you answer it yourself?


34 posted on 07/20/2009 3:07:05 PM PDT by Jacquerie (That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men.)
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To: mike70
No. It is simply used to route block trades efficiently, to move a market price as little as possible while filling the order. People trying to move a lot of stock don't want the price to move a bunch before they are done making the trade.

If someone doesn't care how much money they lose they can reverse the objective and trade as dumb as possible to move a market as much as possible for the amount sold. They'd hurt themselves but would also destabilize the market they traded in.

35 posted on 07/20/2009 3:07:38 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: JasonC
Nonsense, AIG paying up netted them about what they earned in one quarter, only.

Ah, so what's $13 billion between cronies?

Any lie is considered acceptable if the target is a rich financier or firm. Why? Because hatred of capitalism is rampant.

I don't hate capitalism. I applaud and admire the businessman who gets rich running a business that does not require billions from taxpayers to stay afloat because of greedy, stupid decisions.

I instead despise the current symbiotic and self-serving relationship between the likes of GS and politicians. It reeketh of facism and taxpayer ripoffs.

And I also despise the cheerleaders who cannot tell (or does not want to discern) the difference between the two.

36 posted on 07/20/2009 3:11:22 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
People who own them money paying them those debts as contracted is not "stealing". Welshing on a debt and walking away from it is stealing. There is no right to be a deadbeat enshrined in the constitution, populists to the contrary notwithstanding. Meanwhile, back in reality, Goldman pays $6 billion a year in corporate income tax. Every year. Its employees pay several times that in personal income taxes. Everyone else in the entire economy is free-riding off productive financiers, not the reverse.
37 posted on 07/20/2009 3:11:44 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: Jacquerie
If it was a stupid question, why did you answer it yourself?

Why don't you try something remotely resembling debate, instead of yammering like a drunken parrot? Why don't you answer at least some of the questions I asked in #31? Or are they just too inconvenient for your opinions?

38 posted on 07/20/2009 3:12:57 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
Of course you hate capitalism, you wouldn't know it if it smacked you upside the head.

And it is the US government and treasury that requires billions stolen from profitable finance every year to pay for all its middle class entitlement boondoggles to the ungrateful populist rubes on mainstreet, not the reverse.

39 posted on 07/20/2009 3:13:34 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: Jacquerie

Because I was told that there actually aren’t any stupid questions, just stupid questioners. So I indulged y’all.


40 posted on 07/20/2009 3:16:45 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: JasonC
People who own them money paying them those debts as contracted is not "stealing".

Once again, the former chair of GS arranged the AIG bailout. That netted $13 billion in taxpayer funds to GS. The federal government assurances to cover the CDS obligations by AIG did not exist at the time GS purchased such. This was not Congress making the FDIC whole to meet obligations to depositors at the time the deposits were made. GS used CDSs to increase their leverage without making sure AIG could cover them. In other words, GS made a ton of money without doing their homework to properly cover the risk, but then had their sugar daddy in Treasury cover their butts when that went south. As the saying, privatizing profits and publicizing losses. That is not capitalism, that is fascism.

For you to even TRY to rationalize such as anything but theft from the taxpayer at the point of goverment power confirms my opinion of you as a craven apologist for all the carnage these pinheads wrought upon the economy and the taxpayers.

41 posted on 07/20/2009 3:17:17 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
AIG owed them the money, AIG paid them the money, nothing was stolen. You wanted them to be robbed and are simply upset that they weren't robbed more. They are robbed every year at gunpoint for your benefit and you consider it your birthright.
42 posted on 07/20/2009 3:20:13 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: JasonC
Of course you hate capitalism, you wouldn't know it if it smacked you upside the head.

This from a guy who rationalizes billions in goverment bailouts to GS via AIG - government guarantees that did not exist at the time GS purchased the credit default swaps. Methinks I understand capitalism just fine - under capitalism, GS would have eaten the $13 billion in losses because they failed to properly account for risk - that IS what capitalism is about, risk versus reward. What you are shilling for is fascism, where the well-connected run to the taxpayer when their schemese go south. Fascism, which is what you have a tingle down your leg for, apparently.

You may have the last word, for what little it is worth.

43 posted on 07/20/2009 3:21:02 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

I asked a simple question. You answered that GS should make the profit of a no profit. Do you work for the government?


44 posted on 07/20/2009 3:21:38 PM PDT by Jacquerie (That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men.)
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To: JasonC
AIG owed them the money, AIG paid them the money, nothing was stolen.

No, AIG did not pay them the money. The American taxpayer gave AIG the money to meet those obligations. And former GS chair Paulsen arranged the deal - AIG just became a passthru from the taxpayer to AIG - the AIG securities were not guaranteed by the taxpayer at the time they were issued. That ain't capitalism, it is crony fascism. True to form, you omit what brackets the AIG bailout - the interests of GS and the power of GS to force the taxpayer to cover the risks they failed to properly anticipate and research. Fascist freak.

45 posted on 07/20/2009 3:23:39 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Jacquerie
You answered that GS should make the profit of a no profit.

No I did not, you lying weasel. I said this:

What they can earn without massive government intervention, and without setting up the bowling pins for another financial meltdown.

AIG's profit now is largely a result of the bailout money they have gotten.

Now, answer my questions. Or shut the flock up. Dishonest and disingenuous posters are the worst.

46 posted on 07/20/2009 3:25:39 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: nkycincinnatikid

Let me know if you ever suspect you have deep thought.


47 posted on 07/20/2009 3:26:30 PM PDT by Jacquerie (That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men.)
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To: dirtboy

Such unnecessary venom in response to a simple question. $3.5 billion is too much profit. What is just right?


48 posted on 07/20/2009 3:29:13 PM PDT by Jacquerie (That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men.)
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To: dirtboy

Since they accepted so much money, do your feelings tell you that GS should lose money? Would that make you feel better?


49 posted on 07/20/2009 3:33:05 PM PDT by Jacquerie (That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men.)
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To: dirtboy
Wrong, AIG paid them the money.

The treasury was smart to prevent a messy default by AIG, since it would have cost the treasury far more than recapitalizing the company. Your one entry accounting fallacy pretends the treasury would have spent nothing if it had let AIG fail as messily as Lehman, but that is a pipe dream. Being against bailouts for 72 hours cost the authorities $2 trillion by the following Friday. Runs are much more expensive than anything "saved" by forcing debts to not be paid instead of seeing to it that they are paid.

Underlying your entire ideology is the notion that debtors have the right if not the duty to stiff they creditors, that creditors exist to be robbed blind, and that the height of policy is for the authorities to connive at robbing them as much as possible. Simultaneously you expect the treasury to milk financiers of hundreds of billions a year to pay for anything but support of finance.

This is stuff and nonsense, start to finish. The treasury is not a god above the fray but one modest player in the thick of it, and if it lets creditors get smashed, it gets stuck with every bill there is. You can't allocate debts beyond capitals economy wide, and you can't confiscate all financial capital either, since it performs an absolutely necessary social function that enforces its returns by natural economic law. All you can do is decide which hat you are wearing when you pay for the services of capital. And the longer you delay it and the more grudging it is, the more everyone pays.

Intelligent men at the treasury and Fed saw all of this, though not before screwing the pooch on Lehman in exactly the manner you are advocating, and seeing it blow up in their face immediately. They were pragmatic enough to reverse course when not paying $60 billion cost them $2 trillion within a week. Lacking all practical responsibilities, you pretend that you can oppose the costs as well, but it is poppycock. (If banks fail, the FDIC fails, then the treasury fails).

None of it had anything to do with GS or the interests of GS, it had to do with the US treasury and the interests of the US treasury. Which are not "pay out nothing", because it is already contractually obligated to pay for many things, and because wrecking the economy it owns 20% of is not a way to keep it afloat. The interests of the US treasury and of GS and other financiers simply happen to coincide, and you don't like it. Tough toenails.

None of it is your money anyway. Everything spent to support finance, directly or indirectly, since the country was founded, wouldn't make a dent in the vast sum milked from productive financiers by unproductive drones in Washington, year in and year out. But you never even acknowledge this. You treat it as a birthright - capital exists for you to rob.

Well, no, it doesn't, and it can and will defend itself against the depredations of organized deadbeats. Suck it up.

Incidentally, you are free to join them in all of this at any time, making any pretence than any of it oppresses you in the slightest utterly laughable.

50 posted on 07/20/2009 4:32:59 PM PDT by JasonC
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