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Bluffdale Man Shot While On Neighborhood Watch (use good sense while carrying!)
KSL TV ^ | 7/22/09 | Andrew Adams

Posted on 07/22/2009 8:29:55 AM PDT by skyman

BLUFFDALE -- A Bluffdale man is in critical condition after being shot over a misunderstanding.

Salt Lake County sheriff's investigators say David Serbeck and the president of his homeowners' association were in an SUV near 1570 West and 13400 South at 11 p.m. Tuesday on neighborhood watch when they approached two girls.

Lt. Don Hutson says those two girls went home and told one of their fathers that they were being stalked. The father, Reginald Campos, then went out in his own SUV and found the men.

"Words were exchanged. There was a verbal altercation," Hutson says. "Unfortunately, Mr. Campos fired at least two rounds, possibly three rounds."

One of the bullets exited near Serbeck's spine. Deputies say he couldn't move when they arrived, and it's believed he is at least partially paralyzed.

"I think it's one of those situations that, had people had more time to be able to evaluate, it certainly wouldn't have escalated to this point," Huston says.

Hutson says all three men were armed legally. The Salt Lake County District Attorney will screen the case.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: concealedcarry; crimes; guns
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If you are going to carrying, then you must use good sense and go out of your way not to get into confrontations and not use your weapon unless your life or the life of another at risk. I know in some states you can protect your property also, but in any case you better be sure you acting propertly.

The details are still sketchy on this but if the facts are true in the article this didn't need to happen.

1 posted on 07/22/2009 8:29:55 AM PDT by skyman
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To: skyman
...on neighborhood watch when they approached two girls.

Sad story, but that was a bad move right there.
2 posted on 07/22/2009 8:39:37 AM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: skyman

This is horrible. But I’ll bet the girl didn’t tell her father the two men were on neighborhood watch. Or the victim didn’t.


3 posted on 07/22/2009 8:41:06 AM PDT by Terry Mross ( I hate all politicians. Including republicans.)
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To: skyman

“The father, Reginald Campos, then went out in his own SUV and found the men. “

Reginald Campos is a criminal who belongs in prison.


4 posted on 07/22/2009 8:44:44 AM PDT by monday
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To: skyman

forgot to mention this is the type of situation that the anti-gun, anti-concealed carry people will use to show how people can’t responsible when carrying.


5 posted on 07/22/2009 8:44:53 AM PDT by skyman
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To: monday

“The father, Reginald Campos, then went out in his own SUV and found the men. “

I agree that the father went out looking for trouble. It was probably a case of the father getting angry and emotional thinking someone was stalking his daughter. Being a father of girls I can understand this. Going and and trying to find the alleged stalkers and reporting them to police is one thing. Confronting them (which I assume is what happened) is another matter.


6 posted on 07/22/2009 8:49:29 AM PDT by skyman
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To: monday
Reginald Campos is a criminal who belongs in prison.

The immediate, instinctive and natural reaction of a father (or mother, for that matter) carries a lot of weight, IMO.

(Remember, you don't want to get between a mama bear and her cub.)
7 posted on 07/22/2009 8:49:41 AM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool

Why was this a ‘bad’ move? They were on patrol, seems an obvious thing to do to me.


8 posted on 07/22/2009 8:50:23 AM PDT by the anti-liberal
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To: monday

“Reginald Campos is a criminal who belongs in prison.”

Absolutely! He had no justification for pulling the trigger in this situation. Hope he gets the max for this stupidity—naturally Libs will salivate over this story serving it up as “proof” that guns in the hands of citizens will only cause suffering.


9 posted on 07/22/2009 8:53:07 AM PDT by FlorianG
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To: skyman

All in SUV’s!! Why does the media ALWAYS focus on SUV’s?? Perhaps the evil SUV’s actually INSPIRED the shooting!! Had these guys been in cars, none of this would have happened.


10 posted on 07/22/2009 8:53:44 AM PDT by Oldpuppymax (AGENDA OF THE LEFT EXPOSED)
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To: Oldpuppymax

Segways


11 posted on 07/22/2009 8:56:19 AM PDT by ketelone
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To: LearsFool

“The immediate, instinctive and natural reaction of a father (or mother, for that matter) carries a lot of weight, IMO.”

It would have IF he had been correct in his assumptions. As it stands now he was WRONG WRONG WRONG, and he will have to PAY PAY PAY. Hope his stupid little princess is happy with the mess she made.


12 posted on 07/22/2009 8:58:35 AM PDT by monday
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To: monday
“The father, Reginald Campos, then went out in his own SUV and found the men. “ Reginald Campos is a criminal who belongs in prison.

Maybe, maybe not. We'd need to know the circumstances of the shooting in much more detail.

What we do know from the article is that all three men were armed.

We know that the Neighborhood Watch guys approached the two girls.

We know that the two girls said they were being stalked; and that Mr. Campos subsequently went out looking for the "stalkers."

Now we might speculate to fill in some of the gaps.

Q. Why would the girls believe they were being stalked?
A. Probably because the Neighborhood Watch guys were following them, or continually circling back to observe them. We can also speculate that the girls either did not know the men, or did not trust them. So they went home, scared and upset, and told Mr. Campos.

So Mr. Campos goes out armed, looking for two stalkers in an SUV. Was he right to go armed? It depends ... in a 2-on-1 situation, it's probably best to be armed.

Campos approaches the Neighborhood Watch guys, somehow manages to get them to stop their vehicle, and then he exits his own vehicle to accost them, probably aggressively. The NW guys are armed, and have just been chased down by a very angry man.... they prepare themselves.

Campos is angry, and the NW guys are probably responding in kind, which is not helping matters....

At some point, somebody undoubtedly displayed a gun as a threat to "defuse" the situation; I'm inclined to speculate that Campos was the first to bring up the topic, but that he did not fire until one or both of the NW guys showed their own weapons.

13 posted on 07/22/2009 9:07:27 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: LearsFool; monday

Proper response should have been to call the police. Unless there was immediate danger, Reginald should have used the 911 system instead...


14 posted on 07/22/2009 9:12:05 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: the anti-liberal
They were on patrol, seems an obvious thing to do to me.

If we're going to police our own neighborhoods (and more and more, that job is left to us if we want peace and order) we have got to do more than ride around in SUVs after dark. We must make sure our neighbors get to know us and trust us, and vice versa. Wouldn't that prevent anyone from misreading concerned and neighborly investigation as "stalking"?
15 posted on 07/22/2009 9:16:26 AM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: monday
Reginald Campos is a criminal who belongs in prison.

Yep. There was no immediate threat to pull and fire. For that matter that would have been something that the 5 to 10 minute police response time would have been fine if he called the police first and had them check it out.

The girls probably lied through their teeth because they got caught sneaking out, so they're partially responsible for it too.

Far as the neighborhood watch goes they did nothing wrong at all that I can see.

16 posted on 07/22/2009 9:22:11 AM PDT by Domandred (Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.. I am Jim Thompson.)
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To: r9etb
The “neighborhood” watch guys were undoubtedly imbeciles. If this is a neighborhood watch why didn't the girls know them? Why didn't they have some appropriate explanation for the dad? The first thing out of their mouths should have been an explanation on what their “true” intents were. Not to have words with an rightfully angry father. Perhaps the two in the car were actually perps or pedophiles. Either way, I would sign the dad up for some shooting lessons, and the two in the car should be thankful they're still alive today.
17 posted on 07/22/2009 9:33:09 AM PDT by matrix42
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To: Domandred
Neighborhood Watch patrolers should have large prominent official marking on their vehicle;large magnetic signs with simple words like Watch Patrol Unit 2 could be a solution.

Patrolers themselves should have some easily identifiable ,prominently marked jacket or vest ,and optional cap.All should be numbered,and the person who has a sign,vest,etc. recorded.

All should have a photo ID badge which has been recorded at Watch headquarters,even if the headquarters is the watch captains desk at home.

Watch persons need training that emphasizes the absolute requirement to identify themselves to anyone they stop,and need to be trained on the limits of their authority.

18 posted on 07/22/2009 9:40:45 AM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: skyman
It was probably a case of the father getting angry and emotional..."

That's when the firearm is best left at home.

19 posted on 07/22/2009 9:45:00 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (The code word for the new racism is "diversity.")
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To: matrix42

When I worked community security I made a point of stopping to introduce myself (and our function) to anyone moving into the community.Many new residents had not been told by the real estate agents that their new home was in an association with private police,pools,parks, and FEES.So the existence of our patrol was a surprise.
If the Watch patrolers were wearing ordinary clothing and driving an unmarked vehicle,and doing anything more than simple observation ,they were asking for trouble.


20 posted on 07/22/2009 9:49:38 AM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: LearsFool
Agreed.

These days you're lucky if you even know your neighbor's name.

21 posted on 07/22/2009 9:50:04 AM PDT by the anti-liberal
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To: r9etb

“So Mr. Campos goes out armed, looking for two stalkers in an SUV.”

That is why Campos is going to prison for a very long time and why his little princess won’t be going to college because her college fund will go to support the family of the man her father maimed and tried to kill. Campos should have thought before he went out and ruined so many peoples lives that night. Apparently the moron is incapable of rational thought however.


22 posted on 07/22/2009 9:51:40 AM PDT by monday
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To: skyman

No secret why the media wants this in the news.


23 posted on 07/22/2009 9:55:29 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: matrix42

” Not to have words with an rightfully angry father. “

Rightfully angry? Are you out of your mind? These people did nothing to his daughter. NOTHING!!!!!!!!!! He shot them in cold blood over NOTHING!!!


24 posted on 07/22/2009 9:58:29 AM PDT by monday
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To: the anti-liberal
These days you're lucky if you even know your neighbor's name.

Well, you're right about that.

As sad as this story is, maybe we can chalk it up to the growing pains and lessons learned in our desperate effort to restore peace and order in our neighborhoods.
25 posted on 07/22/2009 10:00:12 AM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: Dead Corpse
Had the "stalkers" really been stalkers they could have tried to gain entry into the house while the Campos was out looking for them. Better to stay at home protecting your family on your own turf and call the police.

He really isn't going to have a legal leg to stand on. Legally armed or not, he went out looking for trouble.

26 posted on 07/22/2009 10:30:35 AM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: monday
All I'm asking is that you read the scant information before going all leftist on me. two unidentified males were in an SUV near 1570 West and 13400 South at 11 p.m. Tuesday on neighborhood watch when they approached two girls. and we all know that two young girls are obviously criminals that should be followed and approached if they're out on the streat - sic Taliban. Words were exchanged. There was a verbal altercation . Now I don't know about you but if I happened to be a member of a neighborhood watch I'd think I'd be a little more approachable and understanding to the people that I'm supposedly there to help. Those two sound like they were out looking for trouble and they got it - no surprise - a shame that the dad will probably be demonized and made an example of by our all protecting goverment. Though, perhaps if he's lucky the new health plan will kick in and the guys in the hospital will be denied care under it before the trial actually begins.
27 posted on 07/22/2009 10:32:57 AM PDT by matrix42
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To: LearsFool

Our neighborhood watch have huge magnetic signs that are used on the front doors of the volunteer vehicles.

Most of them are retired couples.

No possibility of this kind of screwup.


28 posted on 07/22/2009 10:37:53 AM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: monday
IF two men not known to the girls,and not easily identifiable as some sort of "officials" ,stopped and began questioning them,I can easily understand the girls becoming upset and frightened.

And Mr. Campos erred in not simply calling the police and reporting what the girls told him about the "stalkers";he could have gone so far as looking for the stalkers and noting their vehicle license and description ,then phoning the police.

Mr. Campos should not have even tried to stop the "stalkers" much less confront them .

At the very least,I see Mr. Campos being forbidden weapons in the future due to his new status as a felon guilty of assault with a deadly weapon.And the Campos family finances are toast.BUT if one of the Watch patrolers pulled a gun FIRST,then Mr. Campos may have a defense.If one of the two strange men you thought were stalking your daughter pulled a gun on you,wouldn't you feel the need to defend yourself?

Scenarios like this is why I am strongly opposed to unmarked cars and plainclothes officers making traffic stops.

29 posted on 07/22/2009 10:42:06 AM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: matrix42
“Those two sound like they were out looking for trouble and they got it ..”

So you think neighborhood watch people are out looking for trouble? People who are trying to stop crime in their neighborhoods? ... I see. You are pro criminal and you have the nerve to call me a leftist? sheesh

30 posted on 07/22/2009 10:43:14 AM PDT by monday
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To: hoosierham
“BUT if one of the Watch patrolers pulled a gun FIRST,then Mr. Campos may have a defense.”

Not if Campos went out and caused the confrontation, which he did. Campos is toast.

31 posted on 07/22/2009 10:48:42 AM PDT by monday
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To: matrix42

[at 11 p.m. Tuesday on neighborhood watch when they approached two girls.]

I see no age of the two girls, and perhaps THEY are the ones out looking for trouble...at ll p.m. nothing good can happen on the streets in some neighborhoods. Neighborhoods have NW for a reason...right?


32 posted on 07/22/2009 10:55:15 AM PDT by oldteen
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To: monday

Pro criminal? I was thinking you might be. In what way are these two identifiable as neighborhood watchmen? How did their behaviour exemplify someone who is out to help “protect and serve”? Why even bother to follow or approach these girls, and then further make it worse by fighting with the dad? Sounds like a case of two young guys getting some thrills watching some girls. If the girls are old enough to be out at 11 p.m., especially with a dad who is obviously so protective, then I bet they’re old enough to know when someone is exhibiting behaviour that would be classified as “stalking”. I’m with hoosierham, unmarked cars either by plain-clothesmen and especially by a neighborhood watch is just crazy, and I don’t know about you guys but the last time I had to call the police on some hoods destroying things in the neighorhood it was 1 1/2 hours before the even bothered to do a drive by, not even close to 5 - 10. The only other time I ever called was when someone drove up open a car door and attempt to grab the 4 year old kid from next door who was walking down the street alone, stupid to be sure, right out in front of my house in broad daylight 3pm on a Saturday! I was coming up from around the side of my house mowing the lawn and I took off after them but they ripped up the pavement and were gone. Cops showed up then 1/2 hour later - nice. The perps were long gone. So if you haven’t been there don’t get so bent about it. Would it have been better to get the car type and license plate? There is no doubt. A bad case attitude with the father of the two girls you were just harassing, because I can do what I want, I’m a neighborhood watchman, isn’t going to help. The two probably dreams some day of laying some levies on the homeowners in the area who don’t have green trash cans.


33 posted on 07/22/2009 11:18:01 AM PDT by matrix42
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To: matrix42

The article says that four teenage girls were questioned by the two men about the robberies. Then one went hom and told her father, and both farthe and daughter went looking for the men. One of the two men was the HOA pres.

Does not look good for the shooter.


34 posted on 07/22/2009 11:28:55 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Ratman83
What must I do to get this generation to read?! Ok let's try this again- excerpt - see above. South at 11 p.m. Tuesday on neighborhood watch when they approached two girls. followed by excerpt once again see above The father, Reginald Campos, then went out in his own SUV and found the men. note - no mention of daughter. I'm not saying this guy did the right thing - it was stupid, but! The weight of the justification, IMHO, rests on the two idiots in the car. No it doesn't look good for the guy - he actually discharged a weapon for God's sake, while looking out for his family... obviously he's a wanton criminal. Should be locked up, tortured, turned over to the reconditioning drones. or at least made to watch CSPAN all day, okay maybe that's going to far as that would arguably be cruel and inhumane.
35 posted on 07/22/2009 12:26:38 PM PDT by matrix42
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To: Ratman83

ok, i’m sorry you’re right I forgot that one was the homeowner association president, and we all know that our presidents are the embodiment of truth and all that we hold sacred. well this guy is toast for sure. for his sake i hope he’s not conservative, and only God can help him if is a member of NRA. death to the crminal’s daughters!! wait a minute that was baldwin’s line... hmm... LOCK them all up! AT LEAST!


36 posted on 07/22/2009 12:26:46 PM PDT by matrix42
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To: matrix42

Follow this link

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7252008


37 posted on 07/22/2009 12:31:57 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Ratman83

Even more info in the report now. Will have to read again


38 posted on 07/22/2009 12:33:47 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: matrix42

From the sound of it, the girls weren’t from the neighborhood. Their car matched the description of a car used in a series of burglaries. How do we know the girls weren’t the burglars? It does happen. Teenagers do very stupid things.

The biggest mistake the neighborhood watch guys made was not calling the police to report a vehicle matching the description of the burglary vehicle.


39 posted on 07/22/2009 12:34:00 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: Ratman83

No cancealed permit for Campos it seems. Really not looking to good


40 posted on 07/22/2009 12:35:39 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: r9etb

You just laid out exactly what I was thinking. I’m guessing head-up-and-locked syndrome for all three men involved.


41 posted on 07/22/2009 12:36:32 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater ("Get out of the boat and walk on the water with us!”--Sen. Joe Biden)
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To: LearsFool
...on neighborhood watch when they approached two girls.

Sad story, but that was a bad move right there.

And that little factoid will be a critical issue to the finish.

42 posted on 07/22/2009 12:40:22 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: r9etb

New info at the link.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7252008

This does not look good for Campos.


43 posted on 07/22/2009 12:49:34 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: meadsjn

That fact is now changin in the story. So I think Campos is toast.


44 posted on 07/22/2009 12:51:01 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: monday

Moron is right. My first and proper reaction would have been to call the cops, then grab my cell phone, then my weapon - to vector said cops when maybe catch up to the “alleged goons.”


45 posted on 07/22/2009 1:00:20 PM PDT by PeteePie (Antique firearms - still deadly after all these years)
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To: the anti-liberal
These days you're lucky if you even know your neighbor's name.

So very true...in today's society with two income families, overwrought families, incessant demanding schedules...one is too stressed, too tired, too time limited to get to know one's neighbors.

I'm fortunate that I reside in a great residential area that assembled a neighborhood watch directory with phone number, voluntary contributed family bios/interests, home/cell numbers, e-mail addresses.
Great for neighborhood safety, holiday get togethers/picnics, area announcements.
And most importantly...knowing your neighbors.

46 posted on 07/22/2009 1:08:46 PM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Ratman83
May not look good for him ... depends on getting more details on the circumstances summarized as follows:

Lt. Don Hutson said, "They both got out of the vehicle. They were both armed with handguns ... words were exchanged, there was a verbal altercation, and unfortunately Mr. Campos, who is the father of the young lady, fired two rounds, possibly three rounds, at Mr. Serbek."

The question is, what was said verbally, and what sorts of body language was involved? Can Mr. Campos plausibly claim that Mr. Serbeck's behavior put him in fear of his life?

This whole incident sounds like a series of mistakes, each of which escalated the situation. I can't absolve the Neighborhood Watch guys of their role in making this happen.

47 posted on 07/22/2009 1:16:21 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: PeteePie
Moron is right. My first and proper reaction would have been to call the cops, then grab my cell phone, then my weapon - to vector said cops when maybe catch up to the “alleged goons.”

The same goes for Mr. Serbeck and his neighborhood watch partner, who decided to take matters into their own hands rather than do as you suggest: call the cops, then grab my cell phone, then my weapon - to vector said cops when maybe catch up to the “alleged car thieves.”

They were the ones who set this train of events in motion in the first place. Mr. Serbeck was not merely a bystander at the time of the shooting: he was an armed man who had exited his vehicle to confront an angry armed man. To call it a "tense situation" would be an understatement.

I doubt that Mr. Serbeck was either trained or prepared to deal with and defuse that sort of situation. The likelihood of unpleasant consequences was very high.... and realized.

Mr. Serbeck is no doubt a fine man, just as his neighbors and friends have said. But that doesn't mean he's immune from screwing up in a tense situation... sorry to say, I think he's partly to blame for what happened.

48 posted on 07/22/2009 1:26:26 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: USNBandit
Legally armed or not, he went out looking for trouble.

I'm a big fan of the intended Victim turning the tables on their attacker. It's why I think every man, woman, and responsible child should be taught how to shoot and carry starting in grade school.

This guy went looking for trouble. Period.

49 posted on 07/22/2009 1:38:21 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Ratman83
my poor innocents, did you think the man was going to get a fair shake in a news article? does anyone else wonder why is there only one set of anecdotal character references? The man screwed up - so did the goons in the “neighborhood watch”. one will pay with his mistake with his health and the other with time in jail if not more. but why is the story slanted to make the father look like a criminal when clearly there is more than enough stupidity to lay at the door of two guys driving around in an unmarked car-why take weapons along anyway - planning to shoot the supposed vandals if they see them? who fired first even? the dad at least on all appearances seems to be up-front, after shooting the guy the dad didn't run off and hide HE called the police, not the HOA goof - what a shame.
50 posted on 07/22/2009 3:16:16 PM PDT by matrix42
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