Posted on 07/22/2009 8:29:55 AM PDT by skyman
BLUFFDALE -- A Bluffdale man is in critical condition after being shot over a misunderstanding.
Salt Lake County sheriff's investigators say David Serbeck and the president of his homeowners' association were in an SUV near 1570 West and 13400 South at 11 p.m. Tuesday on neighborhood watch when they approached two girls.
Lt. Don Hutson says those two girls went home and told one of their fathers that they were being stalked. The father, Reginald Campos, then went out in his own SUV and found the men.
"Words were exchanged. There was a verbal altercation," Hutson says. "Unfortunately, Mr. Campos fired at least two rounds, possibly three rounds."
One of the bullets exited near Serbeck's spine. Deputies say he couldn't move when they arrived, and it's believed he is at least partially paralyzed.
"I think it's one of those situations that, had people had more time to be able to evaluate, it certainly wouldn't have escalated to this point," Huston says.
Hutson says all three men were armed legally. The Salt Lake County District Attorney will screen the case.
The details are still sketchy on this but if the facts are true in the article this didn't need to happen.
This is horrible. But I’ll bet the girl didn’t tell her father the two men were on neighborhood watch. Or the victim didn’t.
“The father, Reginald Campos, then went out in his own SUV and found the men. “
Reginald Campos is a criminal who belongs in prison.
forgot to mention this is the type of situation that the anti-gun, anti-concealed carry people will use to show how people can’t responsible when carrying.
“The father, Reginald Campos, then went out in his own SUV and found the men. “
I agree that the father went out looking for trouble. It was probably a case of the father getting angry and emotional thinking someone was stalking his daughter. Being a father of girls I can understand this. Going and and trying to find the alleged stalkers and reporting them to police is one thing. Confronting them (which I assume is what happened) is another matter.
Why was this a ‘bad’ move? They were on patrol, seems an obvious thing to do to me.
“Reginald Campos is a criminal who belongs in prison.”
Absolutely! He had no justification for pulling the trigger in this situation. Hope he gets the max for this stupidity—naturally Libs will salivate over this story serving it up as “proof” that guns in the hands of citizens will only cause suffering.
All in SUV’s!! Why does the media ALWAYS focus on SUV’s?? Perhaps the evil SUV’s actually INSPIRED the shooting!! Had these guys been in cars, none of this would have happened.
Segways
“The immediate, instinctive and natural reaction of a father (or mother, for that matter) carries a lot of weight, IMO.”
It would have IF he had been correct in his assumptions. As it stands now he was WRONG WRONG WRONG, and he will have to PAY PAY PAY. Hope his stupid little princess is happy with the mess she made.
Maybe, maybe not. We'd need to know the circumstances of the shooting in much more detail.
What we do know from the article is that all three men were armed.
We know that the Neighborhood Watch guys approached the two girls.
We know that the two girls said they were being stalked; and that Mr. Campos subsequently went out looking for the "stalkers."
Now we might speculate to fill in some of the gaps.
Q. Why would the girls believe they were being stalked?
A. Probably because the Neighborhood Watch guys were following them, or continually circling back to observe them. We can also speculate that the girls either did not know the men, or did not trust them. So they went home, scared and upset, and told Mr. Campos.
So Mr. Campos goes out armed, looking for two stalkers in an SUV. Was he right to go armed? It depends ... in a 2-on-1 situation, it's probably best to be armed.
Campos approaches the Neighborhood Watch guys, somehow manages to get them to stop their vehicle, and then he exits his own vehicle to accost them, probably aggressively. The NW guys are armed, and have just been chased down by a very angry man.... they prepare themselves.
Campos is angry, and the NW guys are probably responding in kind, which is not helping matters....
At some point, somebody undoubtedly displayed a gun as a threat to "defuse" the situation; I'm inclined to speculate that Campos was the first to bring up the topic, but that he did not fire until one or both of the NW guys showed their own weapons.
Proper response should have been to call the police. Unless there was immediate danger, Reginald should have used the 911 system instead...
Yep. There was no immediate threat to pull and fire. For that matter that would have been something that the 5 to 10 minute police response time would have been fine if he called the police first and had them check it out.
The girls probably lied through their teeth because they got caught sneaking out, so they're partially responsible for it too.
Far as the neighborhood watch goes they did nothing wrong at all that I can see.
Patrolers themselves should have some easily identifiable ,prominently marked jacket or vest ,and optional cap.All should be numbered,and the person who has a sign,vest,etc. recorded.
All should have a photo ID badge which has been recorded at Watch headquarters,even if the headquarters is the watch captains desk at home.
Watch persons need training that emphasizes the absolute requirement to identify themselves to anyone they stop,and need to be trained on the limits of their authority.
That's when the firearm is best left at home.
When I worked community security I made a point of stopping to introduce myself (and our function) to anyone moving into the community.Many new residents had not been told by the real estate agents that their new home was in an association with private police,pools,parks, and FEES.So the existence of our patrol was a surprise.
If the Watch patrolers were wearing ordinary clothing and driving an unmarked vehicle,and doing anything more than simple observation ,they were asking for trouble.
These days you're lucky if you even know your neighbor's name.
“So Mr. Campos goes out armed, looking for two stalkers in an SUV.”
That is why Campos is going to prison for a very long time and why his little princess won’t be going to college because her college fund will go to support the family of the man her father maimed and tried to kill. Campos should have thought before he went out and ruined so many peoples lives that night. Apparently the moron is incapable of rational thought however.
No secret why the media wants this in the news.
” Not to have words with an rightfully angry father. “
Rightfully angry? Are you out of your mind? These people did nothing to his daughter. NOTHING!!!!!!!!!! He shot them in cold blood over NOTHING!!!
He really isn't going to have a legal leg to stand on. Legally armed or not, he went out looking for trouble.
Our neighborhood watch have huge magnetic signs that are used on the front doors of the volunteer vehicles.
Most of them are retired couples.
No possibility of this kind of screwup.
And Mr. Campos erred in not simply calling the police and reporting what the girls told him about the "stalkers";he could have gone so far as looking for the stalkers and noting their vehicle license and description ,then phoning the police.
Mr. Campos should not have even tried to stop the "stalkers" much less confront them .
At the very least,I see Mr. Campos being forbidden weapons in the future due to his new status as a felon guilty of assault with a deadly weapon.And the Campos family finances are toast.BUT if one of the Watch patrolers pulled a gun FIRST,then Mr. Campos may have a defense.If one of the two strange men you thought were stalking your daughter pulled a gun on you,wouldn't you feel the need to defend yourself?
Scenarios like this is why I am strongly opposed to unmarked cars and plainclothes officers making traffic stops.
So you think neighborhood watch people are out looking for trouble? People who are trying to stop crime in their neighborhoods? ... I see. You are pro criminal and you have the nerve to call me a leftist? sheesh
Not if Campos went out and caused the confrontation, which he did. Campos is toast.
[at 11 p.m. Tuesday on neighborhood watch when they approached two girls.]
I see no age of the two girls, and perhaps THEY are the ones out looking for trouble...at ll p.m. nothing good can happen on the streets in some neighborhoods. Neighborhoods have NW for a reason...right?
Pro criminal? I was thinking you might be. In what way are these two identifiable as neighborhood watchmen? How did their behaviour exemplify someone who is out to help “protect and serve”? Why even bother to follow or approach these girls, and then further make it worse by fighting with the dad? Sounds like a case of two young guys getting some thrills watching some girls. If the girls are old enough to be out at 11 p.m., especially with a dad who is obviously so protective, then I bet they’re old enough to know when someone is exhibiting behaviour that would be classified as “stalking”. I’m with hoosierham, unmarked cars either by plain-clothesmen and especially by a neighborhood watch is just crazy, and I don’t know about you guys but the last time I had to call the police on some hoods destroying things in the neighorhood it was 1 1/2 hours before the even bothered to do a drive by, not even close to 5 - 10. The only other time I ever called was when someone drove up open a car door and attempt to grab the 4 year old kid from next door who was walking down the street alone, stupid to be sure, right out in front of my house in broad daylight 3pm on a Saturday! I was coming up from around the side of my house mowing the lawn and I took off after them but they ripped up the pavement and were gone. Cops showed up then 1/2 hour later - nice. The perps were long gone. So if you haven’t been there don’t get so bent about it. Would it have been better to get the car type and license plate? There is no doubt. A bad case attitude with the father of the two girls you were just harassing, because I can do what I want, I’m a neighborhood watchman, isn’t going to help. The two probably dreams some day of laying some levies on the homeowners in the area who don’t have green trash cans.
The article says that four teenage girls were questioned by the two men about the robberies. Then one went hom and told her father, and both farthe and daughter went looking for the men. One of the two men was the HOA pres.
Does not look good for the shooter.
ok, i’m sorry you’re right I forgot that one was the homeowner association president, and we all know that our presidents are the embodiment of truth and all that we hold sacred. well this guy is toast for sure. for his sake i hope he’s not conservative, and only God can help him if is a member of NRA. death to the crminal’s daughters!! wait a minute that was baldwin’s line... hmm... LOCK them all up! AT LEAST!
Even more info in the report now. Will have to read again
From the sound of it, the girls weren’t from the neighborhood. Their car matched the description of a car used in a series of burglaries. How do we know the girls weren’t the burglars? It does happen. Teenagers do very stupid things.
The biggest mistake the neighborhood watch guys made was not calling the police to report a vehicle matching the description of the burglary vehicle.
No cancealed permit for Campos it seems. Really not looking to good
You just laid out exactly what I was thinking. I’m guessing head-up-and-locked syndrome for all three men involved.
Sad story, but that was a bad move right there.
And that little factoid will be a critical issue to the finish.
That fact is now changin in the story. So I think Campos is toast.
Moron is right. My first and proper reaction would have been to call the cops, then grab my cell phone, then my weapon - to vector said cops when maybe catch up to the “alleged goons.”
These days you're lucky if you even know your neighbor's name.
So very true...in today's society with two income families, overwrought families, incessant demanding schedules...one is too stressed, too tired, too time limited to get to know one's neighbors.
I'm fortunate that I reside in a great residential area that assembled a neighborhood watch directory with phone number, voluntary contributed family bios/interests, home/cell numbers, e-mail addresses.
Great for neighborhood safety, holiday get togethers/picnics, area announcements.
And most importantly...knowing your neighbors.
Lt. Don Hutson said, "They both got out of the vehicle. They were both armed with handguns ... words were exchanged, there was a verbal altercation, and unfortunately Mr. Campos, who is the father of the young lady, fired two rounds, possibly three rounds, at Mr. Serbek."
The question is, what was said verbally, and what sorts of body language was involved? Can Mr. Campos plausibly claim that Mr. Serbeck's behavior put him in fear of his life?
This whole incident sounds like a series of mistakes, each of which escalated the situation. I can't absolve the Neighborhood Watch guys of their role in making this happen.
The same goes for Mr. Serbeck and his neighborhood watch partner, who decided to take matters into their own hands rather than do as you suggest: call the cops, then grab my cell phone, then my weapon - to vector said cops when maybe catch up to the “alleged car thieves.”
They were the ones who set this train of events in motion in the first place. Mr. Serbeck was not merely a bystander at the time of the shooting: he was an armed man who had exited his vehicle to confront an angry armed man. To call it a "tense situation" would be an understatement.
I doubt that Mr. Serbeck was either trained or prepared to deal with and defuse that sort of situation. The likelihood of unpleasant consequences was very high.... and realized.
Mr. Serbeck is no doubt a fine man, just as his neighbors and friends have said. But that doesn't mean he's immune from screwing up in a tense situation... sorry to say, I think he's partly to blame for what happened.
I'm a big fan of the intended Victim turning the tables on their attacker. It's why I think every man, woman, and responsible child should be taught how to shoot and carry starting in grade school.
This guy went looking for trouble. Period.
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