Posted on 07/24/2009 2:32:51 PM PDT by ComeUpHigher
Official LDS church statement on abortion:
"The Church opposes abortion and counsels its members not to submit to or perform an abortion except in the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or good health of the mother is seriously endangered or where the pregnancy was caused by rape and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother. Even then it should be done only after counseling with the local presiding priesthood authority and after receiving divine confirmation through prayer."
That is about as liberal as you can get and still say you are pro life. Basically it says you can't murder a pre-born human being unless the mothers life is at stake or the woman's "good health" (does not state whether physical or emotional health") is at risk (easy enough to find a physician to say either of those), or if the woman was raped and is upset...then its ok to murder the little blob of flesh...BUT even though the church says under those circumstances it is ok to murder, you still need to talk to the "local presiding priesthood authority" which I assumed (may wrongly) was the bishop.
Abortion is an illicit act. No reason, rationalization or set of circumstances can make licit that which is illicit by its very nature.
How DARE you post this official position from the mormon church?
Now, prepare yourself for a reply consisting of a long list of "scriptures" that have nothing to do with the subject at hand, but which will probably chastize you for being a "natural man", (read non-mormon) and therefore morally wanting.
Wow. I feel like I just stepped into a big pile of dinosaur dung.
We all have a common enemy that we should be focusing on, and that would be the Muslims who want to conquer the world by killing all people who are not Muslim.
We have enough trouble coming from the Whitehouse without beating up on each other because of religious differences.
Mr. Robinson, I don’t know what your religious affiliations are, and I really don’t care. But never, in my life, have I heard such foul words about a religion (”Mormonism”) from a person in public life, who has the opportunity to be an excellent role model.
Although I respect what you are doing here on this site, Sir, I’ve lost my respect for you as a person.
You italicized only part of the sentence. The Church does not condone abortion in a pregnancy resulting from consensual sexual relations, unless it is one or those “rare” cases where the mother will die or suffer serious, permanent damage. That almost never happens. The “emotional trauma” part of the sentence has to do with rape. If a woman becomes pregnant as a result of rape, then, and only then, do you consider the “serious emotional trauma.” In other words, even in the case of rape, the mother should think long and hard before having an abortion, counsel with her church leaders, and pray.
97 to 98 percent of abortions are performed on healthy mothers, with healthy babies. The Church would never condone abortion in those instances. Only 2 to 3 percent of abortions involve real threats to the life of the mother, or rape or incest.
I think that is a pretty conservative position, and I cut my legal teeth defending our state’s abortion statute against a challenge by the ACLU. But if you are an absolutist on abortion, then you don’t allow it even when rape is involved.
Really? These are the people who elected Huntsman for governor, voted nearly 100% for Romney, re-elect Orin Hatch election after election, and ( most egregiously) are largely responsible for Harry Reid.
If that is “conservative”, may God save our nation!
No...Mormons are **socially** conservative. That's all.
“But never, in my life, have I heard such foul words about a religion (”Mormonism”)”
Kind of shocking, isn’t it? This is one place where, in the 20th century, aggressive, in-your-face bigotry is condoned and welcomed. I’ll never forget, during the primaries, when some of the intelligent conservatives on National Review and Fox began to see the really nasty anti-Mormonism bubbling up from the depths against Romney. They couldn’t believe it still existed in the US.
FR is a useful place because you can find everything of interest to conservatives in one place. But, in many ways, it confirms all the worst stereotypes about Conservatives. And that’s unfortunate.
Huntsman misrepresented his positions to get elected initially. Then, as an incumbent, it was hard to get him out. The Republican party leadership in Utah is conservative. There was a huge sigh of relief when he decided to go to China. His Lieutenant Governor is conservative.
Harry Reid is unpopular in Utah. He was not elected by Mormons. One of his sons ran for an office in Utah and was soundly defeated.
And, we are not just socially conservative. We believe the Constitution was inspired by God. Be believe in religious, political, and economic freedom.
Thanks!
This used to be a haven for me (I’m mostly confined to my house) but it’s becoming someplace I’m not proud of.
Anti-Mormons need to get used to the fact that the Mormons, no matter what is said about them, will NOT go away. Ever.
Mormons believe that the spirit is separate from the flesh. It is also interesting that Christ in the BOM appeared in the America’s before he was born.
In Mormon theology a body is a vessel that the spirit goes into. If a mother has a miscarriage (spontaneous abortion) it is generally recognized that the spirit will take the next body provided by that mother.
It is only during resurrection that the body and spirit are completely joined.
So, if you believe that abortion is always wrong, with no exceptions, do you consider the mother of a stillborn or a women who has a miscarriage (spontaneous abortion) a murderer?
Reid is from Nevada, and people who know about him here do not like him. Oddly enough, the NRA wants him back in office because of his stance on gun ownership. To me, that’s not enough to vote for such a weasel.
Really? Then **specifically** what are Mormon representatives in Utah doing about Obama’s natural born status? Anything?
Specifically what is the attorney general and secretary of state doing about it???? What did they do about before or after the election?
Did anyone in the entire state of Mormon Utah challenge Obama in court?
Did any stand before the House of Representatives or Senate and demand that he prove his eligibility?
Why on earth would Thomas S. Monson legitimize Obama with a courtesy call last week?
Sorry,...Mormon leaders in Utah ( like the rest of the Republicans) have the **collective** moral gonads of a tadpole.
Care to show exactly where Jim bashed Mormons? From what I can see, he made a basically fundamental statement - that in every religion, there are those who go against the prevailing flow of that group (and I do agree that Mormons have a largely conservative bent, especially on social issues), and he said that specifically in reference to Romney being pro-abortion in the past when he ran against Kennedy for MA Senate. If you consider such to be bashing and an attack on a religion, methinks YOU are the one with a name-calling problem here, not Jim.
How about the OTHER mormon beliefs about the Constitution?
From a post by Colofornian, on April 29, 2009:
But what have LDS leaders & authors themselves said? Here's just a small sample:
Here's what a journalist/spokesperson for the University of Utah said back in 1981:
“Mormons believe they have a divine commission to prepare the world for Christ's millennial reign in which they will serve as officers and administrators. The faithful Saint believes he is building the kingdom of God. This is what motivates the 30,000 full-time missionaries [note, this has doubled since 1981] to preach the gospel, and this is what keeps men in their eighties working at a pace that would pitch younger, less motivated men into their graves.” --University of Utah spokesperson Fred Esplin, “The Saints Go Marching On,” Utah Holiday, June 1981, p. 34.
LDS prophet Benson himself also said in 1988: “Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time 'this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction' ... [Then] the elders of Israel [I.e. LDS leaders], widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government. Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 619
LDS author Duane S. Crowther: “[T]here will be a complete change of government Washington, D.C. will cease to be the capital. The present national bureaucracy will have its end. The internal conflict will sweep away the current system of governments and will pave the way for the political kingdom of God and the millennial kingdom through which Jesus Christ will rule and reign...A new government will be established among the saints and that political kingdom of God will espouse and uphold the principles of constitutional government. Duane S. Crowther, Prophetic Warnings to Modern America, 1979, pp. 315-316
I do not bash the religion of Mormonism. In fact you will see me defending them. I have wonderful Mormon neighbors.
But...Geeze! I wish that Mormon political leaders, who believe that the Constitution was inspired by God, would actually defend it. What I see are bunch of MINOs ( men in name only) who are marching off the socialist cliff just a little more slowly than their Marxist colleagues.
And...Their response to Obama’s natural born status just appalls and disgusts me.
For every instance of someone being against Romney because he is Mormon (and I do agree there are folks who have said such here), there was also an instance of folks calling legitimate political concerns about Romney to be Mormon bashing to try and quell such concerns. That stuff played both ways in 2007-2008. Just as I was called a Mormon-basher on this very thread - and I challenge ANYONE to show where I have bashed Mormons on FR. Making false allegations is just as bad as bigotry, IMO.
My argument is not with you.
Official LDS church statement on abortion:
“The Church opposes abortion and counsels its members not to submit to or perform an abortion except in the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or good health of the mother is seriously endangered or where the pregnancy was caused by rape and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother. Even then it should be done only after counseling with the local presiding priesthood authority and after receiving divine confirmation through prayer.”
__________________________________________________
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Roe V Wade.....
You made a pretty strong allegation against Jim. So I am calling on you to back it up. Show just how Jim bashed Mormons on this thread - not a specific Mormon (Mitt Romney), but the Mormon faith.
Are you his attorney?
Being obtuse, I see. You made the claim on the open forum, back it up. That’s a pretty serious allegation and should not be made without specifics.
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