Posted on 07/24/2009 6:57:18 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
So today the minimum wage goes up by government mandate. What a time for celebration, right? What wonderful compassion is being show by our government, right?
We have no idea whether any workers will actually make more money as a result. But consider what is really happening today that we know for sure:
A: Small business owners just took a pay cut.
B: Some hourly workers will get less hours.
C: Some hourly workers will get laid off.
D: Some union contracts just got raised.
E: None of the businesses affected will have one more penny in sales volume as a result.
F: There has still never been a sighting of the mythical "family of four trying to make it on one minimum wage income."
G: If such a family were sighted, they still could not make it on one minimum wage income.
Isn't government intervention into the economy fantastic?
Could kill the recovery.
Enjoy your $8 Big Mac value meal.
What, you’re not gonna pay $8 for a Big Mac meal?
Well, look on the bright side, the lunchtime crush at McD’s won’t be nearly as bad.
if obamanation is still trying to kill the small businesses, this is another hammer hit.
I doubt it. But I am getting so tired of trying to convince freepers otherwise.
Here is a good fair analysis which looks at both sides:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage
parsy, who doubts $28 per week is going to drive anyone out of business
Someone please show me in the Constitution where it says that the Congress can dictate a floor or ceiling on wages for private enterprise.
government policy that forces unemployment. Wonderful.
if a small business figured they could make money from hiring someone at $8/hr, then they will do it, but if they’re forced to pay $10/hr, they’ll be running at a lost, then its better not do hire
“Here is a good fair analysis which looks at both sides:”
In fairness, this amount is nowhere near the record inflation-adjusted amounts of years passed. It doesn’t even match the amount from the Reagan years.
When I’ve argued this with liberals, I usually explain it this way:
The Congress has dictated that if you can’t produce over $7.25 worth of goods and services, you have no right to a job.
True. But if it went up 25 an hour, there are some who just take it like the Apocalypse.
parsy, who thinks our nation will survive
The truth of these wage hikes.
John Doe had a job before the wage hike. Now he doesn’t have a job. He used to be poor, but now he’s broke.
Isn’t government intervention just wonderful?
A national minimum wage makes zero sense. The cost of living is not uniform across the nation; $7 per hour can be a living wage in some areas of the US, and not even close to 1/3rd of a living wage in others.
This is yet another case of a one-size-fits-all solution being forced on the nation regardless of the applicability of that solution.
Leave it to the States. The Fed’s should have zero say in the matter.
The minimum wage isn’t going to kill the recovery. There is no recovery.
Parsy and I argue about the minimum wage all the time, but anyone who says that a minimum wage raise killed this ‘recovery’ is full of crap. Unless, we’re talking about eradicating the whole idea of a ‘minimum wage’, which would help matters, but only if we went back in time.
When wages are going up anyway, it makes little difference, provided that the increase is not too much.
That’s not our situation. Wages should be going down to clear the market. They aren’t because the minimum is already higher than the market wage in a lot of industries. This won’t help.
Add that to the list of other problems we’ve got, and I am not optimistic. Just read in the WSJ that 7 banks were taken over today. And there is another $15MM bank waiting in the wings—Guaranty Financial.
Our nation has ‘survived’ a lot of things that have built up over the years to a level that is unsustainable. That’s a part of it. We’re now paying the price and our children and grandchildren will really see what it means to have less, because we weren’t willing to sacrifice ANYTHING, but sacrificed EVERYTHING for it.
If you think govt intervention into the economy is bad, wait until you see (more) govt intervention into health care.
I remember making just over minimum wage back in 1970. I earned $1.45 cents an hour. We heard of our engineer making $5.00 and hour and wished we were making that ammount.
When I retired I was making over 5 times what the engineer was making in 1970 and was barely able to keep my head above water.
Now I am retired and living off Social Security with no COLA this year and a pittance from my company retirement. I pinch pennies till they squeal!
It is not in there, but neither is the majority of what the fed govt does. And yes, that is a problem.
How about looking at this on a monthly basis and assume that you've got 5 employees. That's a $560 hit.
It’s in the same section where it says the government should run education and health care.
Then parsy isn’t nearly as close to the small business world as I am. That measely $28 a week is $1,456 per year per employee. That’s $5,368 per year for a small business with 4 part timers who fill the positions of 3 full timers. That will kill many already on-the-brink small businesses. No question whatsoever.
$28 a week over 4 employees over a month in a mom and pop store adds up to some real money. For the mathematically challenged *cough* that works out to be about $500 a month.
I don’t know about you, but for a mom and pop operation $500 a month is a fair amount of money in a lot of places.
But if you like the government mandating how much you can and cannot pay your employees I have a word for people who think like you: Statist.
But PRS, the stock market is over 9,000 again! Everybody is starting to feel optimistic. Don’t tell me that we agree on something, that the worst has yet to hit.
parsy, who has food, ammo, and a bunch of books to catch upon. And his guitar. With extra sets of strings.
And the commercial real estate bubble hasn’t hit yet. Or the credit card bubble. Or the full impact of unemployment. retail Christmas sales ought to be interesting omen.
parsy, who is gloomy
It hasn’t killed the recovery. But it might. It just happened today.
But, if your business is big enough for 5 unskilled workers, what is the gross? There has to be some elasticity. Costs change all the time. Gas goes up and down. Product costs go up and down.
parsy, who used to be an accountant
doubts $28 per week is going to drive anyone out of business
How about looking at this on a monthly basis and assume that you’ve got 5 employees. That’s a $560 hit.
Perhaps I am mistaken but I think minimum wage starts at 25 employees. If that is correct it would be 700 dollars a week.
But since the minwage increase is for everyone, prices are going up for everyone.
parsy
The most conservative estimate for illegal workers in the USA is 7.5 million, most of them with few job skills.
Equally astounding, the American economy must create about 1.5 million new jobs EACH YEAR just to accommodate new citizens and newly issued Green Cards.
About 1.0 million of those new LEGAL workers also have little education and few job skills.
All these new workers compete directly with America's home grown low skill workers.
Although it is certain that jobs are destroyed when a minimum wage goes up, it does set a national “wage floor,” which is helpful to many of America's home grown workers.
America can fill its demand for low skill workers entirely from its own population.
Want to give low skill American workers a pay raise?
Then vigorously enforce our laws against illegal immigration and vigorously block low skilled foreigners from becoming citizens or acquiring Green cards.
What about all those costs that just go up? You've got to be competitive to stay in business and that means holding down costs, especially in this soft economy.
If the wage were raised to 20 bucks an hour, the journeymen in unions would move to maintain the higher wage ratio for them, I.E. 3 times the wage of the lowest paid employee,,,or more.
You’re joking, right? Do you really not understand how many small businesses have already stretched their elasticity to the breaking point? That more and more people are losing jobs, so there are fewer and fewer people to spend money? That those who have a little money are pinching pennies and so are very price sensitive? What that means for the prospect of raising prices, esp in an economy possibly facing deflation?
Wow, just wow. Sure, some will survive. Many even. But many - too many - won’t. And of even those who survive, many will have to lay people off.
And no, this problem isn’t zero’s. It really isn’t. It’s a result of a law passed in 2007. That means it is the donks’ problem. They passed the law after they took over in 2006. GW is also to blame, if for no other reason than he refused to fight for so long that he was just plain out of political capital by then.
Food ammo, and a bunch of books! Looks like we’re agreeing! :D
We haven’t even seen anywhere near the worst of this yet.
no one seems to take into account your other employees..the ones that started at minimum 6.75 and EARNED their way to 7.25 will now have to get a raise to 8.00 to keep them above your new 7.25 minimum wage employees.....Don’t stop there, the ones who started two years ago and who now make 8.50 will have to go to 9.25 to keep ahead of the rest of the employees.....forward thinking never reaches a plateau....pathetic liberal thinking
Don’t worry, that’s just a dead-cat bounce.
Feds raised the minimum wage today. Small businesses had to lay off today. During a recession/depression. These are young people who probably voted for the kenyan and think the dimrats are their benefactors. I can’t wait until they grow up and figure out how bad they just got screwed. Hey you young folks, never vote dimrat. They kill your jobs and then tax the crap out of you. Sucks to be you.
Thats what I think. I hate to be a prophet of doom, but I don’t see where the demand is going to come from with so many unemployed and not likely to be rehired soon. Commercial real estate almost has to tank. Everywhere I drive is full of vacant lease property. You know most of this hocked to the gills. That is where a lot of banks have their money.
Hope I am wrong. Then again, I hope not. Maybe a good depression is what we need to get back to basics again. Home, family, priorities. Who knows.
parsy.
Wait ... What?
I bet fifty bucks there will not be any difference tomorrow. Just as soon as everyone washes off the coal and snoot and stop gnashing their teeth and beating their chests in despair.
My local ice cream store owner is really happy. One of his employees quit last month, so he doesn’t have to fire anyone.
One less job in the neighborhood, but at least we don’t know who is unemployed because of it.
Yup, fast food places, ice cream stores, cleaning services - 1 job at a time, all gone.
LOL! I think you’re right. But have you seen what passes for optimistic news lately? Less people looking up the great depression on google. Sales fell less than what we thought. OMG, if the unemployment checks run out.
parsy.
dim-wit, you could have 25 employees, 5 of which are newbies (minimum wage)...and face all the repurcussions of the inane minimum wage laws....NOW, you must also raise the wages of ALL other employees to keep them at a respectable level above your newest.....could cost you thousands with no additional income to compensate for it.....Obama’s way to increase jobs.....NOT....PATHETIC
$560... no, cuz when wages go up so do the payments for medicare and social security and stuff
That doesn’t take higher ss and medicare payments either
“Enjoy your $8 Big Mac value meal.”
I usually try to count how many people are working at the McD’s I go to. Usually they’ve got 12-15 people on duty.
I’m sure they could get by with one or two less and still feed people.
Other businesses, maybe not.
Brand-spanking new 60,000 sq. foot office bldg. across the street. Mexicans putting the finishing touches on landscaping the other day. Not a single tenant.
And then those one or two will go on the JOBLESS role and WE get to FEED them!
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