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Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates
WND ^ | 7/28/09 | Jerome Corsi

Posted on 07/28/2009 7:34:23 PM PDT by pissant

Images of two 1961 Hawaii birth certificates similar to the one President Obama purportedly has on file have now been unveiled.

The Honolulu Advertiser published photostats of the original long-form birth certificates of twin daughters born to Eleanor Nordyke at Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital Aug. 5, 1961, one day after Obama was supposedly born at the same facility.

The Nordykes' certificates include information missing from the short-form document for Obama published online, including the name of the hospital, the name of the attending physician, name and address of the parents, the race of the parents and the race of the baby.

As WND reported yesterday, Hawaii's director of health responded to the growing controversy over the White House's refusal to release Obama's original long-form birth certificate by issuing a statement about the document in apparent contravention of Hawaiian law.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: article2section1; barackobama; bho44; birthcertificate; birtherloons; birthers; certifigate; colb; freepersareloons; freepersarenutcases; hotair; iloveobama; imom; larrysinclairslover; naturalborn; obama; obamanoncitizenissue; obroma; youlooneyidiots; youlostgetoveritass
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To: WVNan
"That might hold up if the address (where O's folks didn't live) is where the twins' folks lived."

That makes no sense. If Obama had used the twins address it could right away be proven that was not where his parents lived. What Obama did was use an address where recently the last of the owners from 1961 had passed away and then they could not claim Obama's didn't live there.

What Obama's people did is supposedly remove the twins announcement to make room to insert Obama's announcement.

251 posted on 07/29/2009 8:58:17 AM PDT by Spunky (You are free to make choices, but not free from the consequences.)
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To: rolling_stone

Was Ann Dunham going to College AFTER Barack was born??? What did she do with Bammy while she was in school?? Has anyone interviewed her FRIENDS??


252 posted on 07/29/2009 9:13:04 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion....the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: concerned about politics

Do you know of any example of the long form of the Hawaii BC that shows the race of a parent who was black listed as “African”? Why would Barack’s COLB show African if the BC shows “black” or “colored” or “Negro” (that’s my guess as to what Hawaii would put down in 1961)?


253 posted on 07/29/2009 9:14:00 AM PDT by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: Jedidah

Too bad. :)


254 posted on 07/29/2009 9:21:51 AM PDT by mojitojoe (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people the people to remain silent.)
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To: tc45a

“HUH?” Yeah, n00b, that’s what I said when I saw two or three n00bs spewing the same misdirection in practically the same words, trying to dissmble the discrepancy in the numbering of the babies born August 4 and 5.


255 posted on 07/29/2009 9:25:13 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

No, we are speaking from common sense and reason, not knee jerk conspiracy.


256 posted on 07/29/2009 9:41:01 AM PDT by tc45a
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To: tc45a

Ah yes, lets get a little deeper into your talking points direction, n00b. What number are we on with the ‘just a bunch of conspiracy nuts’ assertion?


257 posted on 07/29/2009 9:42:33 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

The certificate number is not likely to be a sequence of birth number. It is most likely a sequence of health department form processing. If the number was based on a birth sequence then the health department would have to hold up issuing other birth certificates while waiting for forms that they wouldn’t even know existed. That does not make any sense at all. The order that the forms were received at the health department would be the order of sequencing for the certificate numbers.


258 posted on 07/29/2009 9:49:19 AM PDT by binary (There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who do not)
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To: MHGinTN

Other posters gave a reasonable reason why the numbers and dates don’t match but no..they are trolls because they are not walking in lock step agreement with you on this BC stuff.


259 posted on 07/29/2009 9:54:12 AM PDT by tc45a
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To: LS
LS, here are example of both types....The one we are asking for is the black one. The one BO put on the web is a possible faked of the other. Frmail also coming your way.
260 posted on 07/29/2009 9:55:26 AM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: binary; MHGinTN
The certificate number is not likely to be a sequence of birth number. It is most likely a sequence of health department form processing. If the number was based on a birth sequence then the health department would have to hold up issuing other birth certificates while waiting for forms that they wouldn’t even know existed. That does not make any sense at all. The order that the forms were received at the health department would be the order of sequencing for the certificate numbers.

Bingo. Needs repeated for MHGinTN

261 posted on 07/29/2009 9:55:41 AM PDT by tc45a
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To: Spunky; LucyT; pissant; hoosiermama
Anyway you cut it, Obama's Certificate number should be BEFORE, not AFTER, the Nordyke twins!

His form was accepted/filed by the Registrar THREE days before both of the Nordyke twins. The turn-around time by the state in the 60s is less than a week -- 4-6 days as shown below. YET his Certificate # is THREE certificate numbers BEFORE Gretchen's.

Name

Location of Birth

Birth Cert #

(Day) Date/Time Born

Date of Signature of Parent or Other Informant

(Day) Date Accepted by Local Reg.

Diff bet Date born & Accepted by Local Reg.

Barack Hussein Obama

Kapiolani Medical Center

151-61-10641

(Fri) Aug. 4, 1961 7:24 pm

unknown

Aug. 8, 1961 *

4 days

Susan Elizabeth Nordyke

Kapiolani Medical Center

151-61-10637

(Sat) Aug. 5, 1961 2:12 pm

Aug 8, 1961

Aug 11, 1961

6 days

Gretchen Carter Nordyke

Kapiolani Medical Center

151-61-10638

(Sat) Aug. 5, 1961 2:17 pm

Aug 8, 1961

Aug 11, 1961

6 days

Edith Pauline Coats

Wahiawa Gen. Hospital

151-62-08498

(Fri) June 15, 1962 3:51 am

June 15, 1962

June 19, 1962

4 days


* Note: Obama’s Certification states “Date Filed by Registrar” instead of “Date Accepted by Registrar”

262 posted on 07/29/2009 9:57:44 AM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2
Nordyke birth certificates Nordyke twins Certificate of Live Birth

263 posted on 07/29/2009 9:59:28 AM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: MHGinTN; binary; tc45a
It is most likely a sequence of health department form processing.

Please see post 262 and 263.

If it was based upon when the form was received (i.e., accepted/filed) by the Registrar, then Obama's number should STILL be lower, NOT higher, than the twin's birth certificate numbers.

264 posted on 07/29/2009 10:04:00 AM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2

Keep it up!!!


265 posted on 07/29/2009 10:05:10 AM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: BP2; LS

BP meet LS Ls may have some private questions for you, please assist

LS note posts 262-63


266 posted on 07/29/2009 10:13:11 AM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: Spunky

You’re right. I usually don’t make sense before noon.


267 posted on 07/29/2009 10:20:52 AM PDT by WVNan ( (Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.: Sun Tzu))
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To: BP2
If it was based upon when the form was received (i.e., accepted/filed) by the Registrar, then Obama's number should STILL be lower, NOT higher, than the twin's birth certificate numbers.

There could have been multiple people processing these forms at the Registers office. Some may have worked faster than others. There could be many legitimate reasons the dates and numbers don't match. I don't think the registers office put the forms in order based upon date and birth hour-they could probably have cared less. All they wanted was to get them registered.

I want more info before making a decision.

268 posted on 07/29/2009 10:22:06 AM PDT by tc45a
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To: BP2; Fred Nerks; null and void; stockpirate; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; MeekOneGOP; ...
If it was based upon when the form was received (i.e., accepted/filed) by the Registrar, then Obama’s number should STILL be lower, NOT higher, than the twin’s birth certificate numbers.

Ping to posts 262-264.

269 posted on 07/29/2009 10:36:16 AM PDT by LucyT
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To: tc45a
It is a good thing to question everything. Including the certificate numbers. But is also a good thing to throw away questions and possible answers that do not make good sense or are unlikely.

Look at the newspaper announcements. The missing 'twins' announcement is assumed to be replaced on microfilm with 0bamas announcement. This is not likely. The 'twins' parents may have opted out of an announcement. The most simple explanation is usually the best. But if I were to see real evidence of tampered with microfilm then the simplest explanation would be some sort of fraud.

The fact that the the certificate shown for 0bama has a sequence number close to that of the twins tells me the paperwork was filed near his birth date. But that does not mean there was not fraud involved in the paperwork. Based on multiple types of filing in HI there is certainly room for deception to confer US citizenship on a child if a parent or guardian wanted to.

270 posted on 07/29/2009 10:46:10 AM PDT by binary (There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who do not)
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To: tc45a; LucyT
I'm not ready to accept that based upon ALL of the other information out there about Ann Dunham's whereabouts in 1961. I'm more likely to believe that there was NO certificate number to begin with for Obama (sloppy record keeping), and the state "created" one for him (by his request, or his mother/grandmother) to make everything official.

While a proposed certificate was submitted (Date Filed by Registrar), it does NOT appear that it was ever accepted (Date Accepted by Registrar).

Accepted vs Filed (at bottom left of both forms):

Which makes the statement by Department of Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino all the more curious:

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,"


271 posted on 07/29/2009 10:47:16 AM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2

Wow. I’m more confused than ever. It’s a blizzard. The most obvious thing is that the forms are different, and that it should be stunningly easy for Obama to produce the actual, real, form that looks like the twins’ form.


272 posted on 07/29/2009 11:20:43 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: hoosiermama

Yeah, the difference in the two is obvious.


273 posted on 07/29/2009 11:22:37 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: pissant

Well, well, well. It looks like this isn’t going to be the little story that just went away because CNN said so.


274 posted on 07/29/2009 11:23:00 AM PDT by mojito
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To: Ann Archy

Yes Ann went to U of W in Fall 1961 while Obama Sr was at U Hawaii. Ann lived in an area of Washington that was segregated at that time and had her name as Mrs Barack Obama in directories.

I don’t know if the little Obamination was with her or her mom or where since August 61.
Later Ann went to UH and may have had Obie Jr or her mom may have taken care of him...dont know until later...
lots of info on this lengthy thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2040486/posts?q=1&;page=1#1

here is another supposed timeline


275 posted on 07/29/2009 11:23:19 AM PDT by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: freedomconservationist
Just so that nobody gets confused: the order of the certificates means nothing.

No way to determine whether or not you are correct on that statement, without access to a birth registry by which one can compare birth certificate numbers to dates and times of birth, and/or interviewing a state bureaucrat who was intimately familiar with the procedures at that time.

276 posted on 07/29/2009 11:42:03 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: BP2
I'm more likely to believe that there was NO certificate number to begin with for Obama (sloppy record keeping), and the state "created" one for him (by his request, or his mother/grandmother) to make everything official.

A question to ask then would be this: do you think the number they used on 0bamas certificate was reused (stolen) from another birth or was unused and available at right around the time 0bama 'needed to be born'. That just does not seem highly likely.

If there was a conspiracy it more likely was perpetrated by the mother or grandmother back in 1961 to confer US citizenship for reasons other than a possible run for the white house. This type of conspiracy would involve less participants and be a simpler solution to the question.

277 posted on 07/29/2009 11:44:21 AM PDT by binary (There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who do not)
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To: BP2
I'm more likely to believe that there was NO certificate number to begin with for Obama (sloppy record keeping), and the state "created" one for him (by his request, or his mother/grandmother) to make everything official.

A question to ask then would be this: do you think the number they used on 0bamas certificate was reused (stolen) from another birth or was unused and available at right around the time 0bama 'needed to be born'. That just does not seem highly likely.

If there was a conspiracy it more likely was perpetrated by the mother or grandmother back in 1961 to confer US citizenship for reasons other than a possible run for the white house. This type of conspiracy would involve less participants and be a simpler solution to the question.

278 posted on 07/29/2009 11:48:47 AM PDT by binary (There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who do not)
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To: pissant; Polarik; ckilmer; cripplecreek; LucyT; Calpernia; Red Steel; Beckwith; stockpirate; ...
Strange that the now elderly Mrs. Nordyke has popped up twice (first time Dec. 22, 2008) in the Advertiser to help promote the idea that Obama was born in Kapiolani Hospital. Apparently, she has no definitive recollection of meeting Stanley Ann Dunham there, although she now "speculates" that Ms. Dunham may have arrived at the hospital later than she did, which, according to Mrs. Norkyke, would account for Obama's higher number on his birth certificate.

To put it diplomatically, one can't rule out the possibility that Mrs. Nordyke is being used as a pawn by the Obama folks and the Advertiser to help them with their "defense" in "Certifigate."

279 posted on 07/29/2009 12:14:50 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: justiceseeker93


It’s interesting that Obama was born the day before the Nordyke twins were born, supposedly at the same hospital, yet the number on Obama’s birth certificate is a later number than the numbers on the Nordyke certificates.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/assets/gif/M1139416728.GIF

http://freecharlotte.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/birth_certificate_5.jpg
280 posted on 07/29/2009 12:25:46 PM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: binary


It’s interesting that Obama was born the day before the Nordyke twins were born, supposedly at the same hospital, yet the number on Obama’s birth certificate is a later number than the numbers on the Nordyke certificates.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/assets/gif/M1139416728.GIF

http://freecharlotte.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/birth_certificate_5.jpg
281 posted on 07/29/2009 12:27:01 PM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: Spunky


It’s interesting that Obama was born the day before the Nordyke twins were born, supposedly at the same hospital, yet the number on Obama’s birth certificate is a later number than the numbers on the Nordyke certificates.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/assets/gif/M1139416728.GIF

http://freecharlotte.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/birth_certificate_5.jpg
282 posted on 07/29/2009 12:28:03 PM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: pissant


It’s interesting that Obama was born the day before the Nordyke twins were born, supposedly at the same hospital, yet the number on Obama’s birth certificate is a later number than the numbers on the Nordyke certificates.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/assets/gif/M1139416728.GIF

http://freecharlotte.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/birth_certificate_5.jpg
283 posted on 07/29/2009 12:28:31 PM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: justiceseeker93
To put it diplomatically, one can't rule out the possibility that Mrs. Nordyke is being used as a pawn by the Obama folks and the Advertiser to help them with their "defense" in "Certifigate."

No worries -- there are people working to confirm or disprove her latest claims about Obama.

Memories fade and can be embellished. That's why paperwork is generally more reliable ...

284 posted on 07/29/2009 12:29:52 PM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: justiceseeker93

When has the left ever been shy about using an elderly person to push their agenda?

The more befuddled the elderly person is, the better, as long as they can remember their lines until the camera clicks off...


285 posted on 07/29/2009 12:57:36 PM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 190 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: pissant

wasn’t this document release a violation of the stated policy??


286 posted on 07/29/2009 1:36:23 PM PDT by silverleaf (If you can't be a good example, at least don't be a horrible lesson)
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To: justiceseeker93

what about the Nordyke twins? They went to kindergarten with lil Barry

Tried to retrieve a photo but guess what happened TODAY to the obama file?

CLOSED

http://www.theobamafile.com/


287 posted on 07/29/2009 1:43:08 PM PDT by silverleaf (If you can't be a good example, at least don't be a horrible lesson)
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To: justiceseeker93; pissant; Polarik; LucyT; STARWISE; potlatch; devolve; FARS
To put it diplomatically, one can't rule out the possibility that Mrs. Nordyke is being used as a pawn by the Obama folks and the Advertiser to help them with their "defense" in "Certifigate."

plata o plomo

Do the astroturf or we cover you with real turf--see, you always get a choice under ObamaCaretm.

288 posted on 07/29/2009 1:48:08 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: justiceseeker93; pissant; PhilDragoo; Plummz; Fred Nerks; All

“Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: Eleanor Nordyke’s twins and Obama born day apart in Hawaii

In a Hawaiian newspaper article, Eleanor Nordyke says she was in the same hospital on the same days as Obama’s mother who gave birth to Barack on Aug. 4, 1961.

According to the story, Nordyke gave birth to twins on Aug. 5, 1961.

Below is the story. I am not good at making links, but I think that if you copy and paste the link into your address bar, the article will come up.

~~~~

Links to Honolulu Advertiser article that CANNOT BE POSTED
HERE.

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-141411.html

____________________________________________________

“To: Plummz
You wrote:

“A woman who had twins at Kapiolani on that day has been interviewed by the MSM Hawaii daily paper and she said she didn’t remember Barry or the Dunhams.”

In reply to which I supplied you with a link to the story told by Eleanor Nordyke...in which she maintains she gave birth to her twins on the same day in the same hospital:

“...The twins, Susan “Nunu” Bell and Gretchen “Nini” Worthington, were not only born in the same hospital hours after the future president, but also ended up in the same classes with Obama at Noelani Elementary School and later at Punahou School from the seventh grade to graduation in 1979.

“I think it was remarkable that they just so happened to be born within 24 hours of each other and grew up knowing each other,” Nordyke said.

She did not know Obama’s mother, Ann Dunham, while they were in labor together on Aug. 4, 1961, at the old Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital.

But Nordyke was a population research fellow at the East-West Center while Dunham was there. And Nordyke later met Madelyn Dunham — Ann Dunham’s mother and Obama’s grandmother — during a cruise to Tahiti in 2002.

“She was placed at our table on the ship,” Nordyke said. “She sat with us on that ship for three weeks. She told us that her daughter had passed away and that she had raised her grandson, and he was a social worker in Chicago.”

A SOCIAL WORKER IN CHICAGO? OBAMA WAS A SENATOR IN 2002! AND THERE’S ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE THAT STANLEY ANN DUNHAM WAS EVER AT THE EAST-WEST CENTRE. AND THERE NEVER HAS BEEN A BIRTH ANNOUNCEMENT FOR THE TWINS, SO VITAL RECORDS MUST HAVE FORGOTTEN THEM?

Now you want to see the ‘birth announcement’ FOR OBAMA, that shows an address where no ‘Mr & Mrs Obama ever lived:

GOOGLE

Of course Eleanor Nordyke’s story didn’t help obama, she lied through her teeth...and she said a heck of a lot more than what you wrote:

...she didn’t remember Barry or the Dunhams.”
93 posted on 07/23/2009 2:28:07 AM PDT by Fred Nerks”

http://209.157.64.200/focus/news/2298872/replies?c=93


289 posted on 07/29/2009 1:57:06 PM PDT by STARWISE (The Art & Science Institute of Chicago Politics NE Div: now open at the White House)
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To: STARWISE; justiceseeker93; Fred Nerks; Polarik; LucyT; pissant; potlatch; devolve; FARS
ali Hussein eschewed a lucrative corporate career to be a social worker in Chicago.

Where his wife, Mother Teresa, lived in a dumpster behind a hospital.

As a lad, The One was able to remotely view space craft splashing down off Hawaii--way off Hawaii, when he was way off in Indonesia.

Earlier still, his parents, from the planet Krypton, lived invisibly at an address in old newspaper announcements.

He is the only human being to have been born in three hospitals separated by miles of open ocean.

He is indeed The One We Have Been Waiting For.


290 posted on 07/29/2009 2:56:20 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: Ann Archy

There was an article or two that was about the woman who was the babysitter. She lived in the same apartment building that they lived in. I don’t remember her name. Possible Fred Nerks or Lucy T would know.


291 posted on 07/29/2009 3:37:53 PM PDT by Albertafriend
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To: Principled
A close examination of the birth certificates issued by Kapi’olani to the Nordyke twins shows the registration number precedes the number given Obama, even though the future president was born a day earlier.

And his fake COLB shows that his documentation was filed 3 days earlier. If it had been fiiled the same day, you might argue that that they didn't process the things in any particular order. But 3 days and only 3 numbers difference, in the wrong direction, is highly suspecious, to say the least.

292 posted on 07/29/2009 3:57:09 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: pissant

People starting to come forward. Giving their real names. God bless them.


293 posted on 07/29/2009 5:53:40 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: Principled

This could happen in any of several different ways, before the age of computers. It could be the real number, but it makes no difference either way.


294 posted on 07/29/2009 5:55:30 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: firebrand

I want to see the school pictures that were taken of the twins and barry.


295 posted on 07/29/2009 6:41:20 PM PDT by WVNan ( (Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.: Sun Tzu))
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To: STARWISE

Propaganda.

That addressed nothing.


296 posted on 07/29/2009 6:52:48 PM PDT by roaddog727 (Onward into the Breach, and Faciendum est!)
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To: STARWISE

Sorry, not spewing the propaganda line at you, but the Commie Bastards at factobfuscate.org

:-)


297 posted on 07/29/2009 6:57:11 PM PDT by roaddog727 (Onward into the Breach, and Faciendum est!)
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To: thecodont; RummyChick; Danae

Danae is the FReeper you are talking about. She was born in HI and has spoken to the HI “elites” about some confusion with her birth certificate.


298 posted on 07/29/2009 7:11:10 PM PDT by battletank
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To: LS; BP2; hoosiermama

Why does the one on the left (DeCosta’s) say “Date Accepted by STATE Registrar” and the one on the right (BO) say “Date Filed by Registrar”?


299 posted on 07/29/2009 7:37:47 PM PDT by thecodont
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To: battletank

I finally figured that out. I asked her if her COLB said filed or accepted by the registrar and hers says filed.

So has anyone found the birth announcement of the twins?

Because Honolulu Advertiser claimed that the info coming from Vital records was put in a different section than info coming from grandparents etc.

So ..their birth has to be there.

Where is it?

Maybe this will be the smoking gun.


300 posted on 07/29/2009 7:38:15 PM PDT by RummyChick
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