Skip to comments.Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates
Posted on 07/28/2009 7:34:23 PM PDT by pissant
Images of two 1961 Hawaii birth certificates similar to the one President Obama purportedly has on file have now been unveiled.
The Honolulu Advertiser published photostats of the original long-form birth certificates of twin daughters born to Eleanor Nordyke at Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital Aug. 5, 1961, one day after Obama was supposedly born at the same facility.
The Nordykes' certificates include information missing from the short-form document for Obama published online, including the name of the hospital, the name of the attending physician, name and address of the parents, the race of the parents and the race of the baby.
As WND reported yesterday, Hawaii's director of health responded to the growing controversy over the White House's refusal to release Obama's original long-form birth certificate by issuing a statement about the document in apparent contravention of Hawaiian law.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
That is suspicious.
The four-digit year IMO was typed in by someone who "wasn't there." Obama's registration number could be correct but whoever put it on the COLB had zero experience with the way things were until 1990s. (Yes, there were exceptions as systems where modified/developed after hardware capacity increased and 2000 approached.)
The two-digit year was the standard owing to 80-column punch cards, second and third generation computers. I worked on a RCA301 for example that had 10,000 bytes of memory. We just could not afford the two extra bytes -- and there was just on will or money to expand dates as the hardware capacity grew -- thus the Y2K panic.
So Obama's COLB may have the correct information but IMO it's not an authentic Hawaiian government document if it has that four-digit year in the registration number.
A foreign birth, if no documents are available, means they have to "guess" or assume the facts themselves. That's why a foreign certificate does not constitute legal natural born citizenship, or any citizenship for that matter.
A foreign certificate simply agrees the person was indeed born some where at some time.
Not trying to give you a hard time...I appreciate your posting...but, I would imagine sloppy would occur with lets say DMV Title Transfers where dozens are done on a single day. I would imagine, that with only two hospitals; and the population in HI not being that dense, that BC would be pretty rare (a couple dozen a week). So...if a sloppy mistakes would be a little harder to explain away (as opposed to the very busy DMV or Welfare Office).
According to Wiki, Ann Durham was born on Nov 29, 1942...
That would make her 18 on August 4, 1961
I hope so. If so, Obomas non-citizenship was put up on his own website right in front of our eyes. It was so obvious , we didn't see it!
The COLB doesn't prove you are a citizen.
Looks like the forgery has now surfaced.
That is true, we didn’t have to start using four digits on most everything until 2000.
Bingo. It's a foreign born certificate, isn't it? It fits the legal description perfectly.
The sequential integrity issue may not be an issue. The birth certificate number may very well depend on when the form was completed and turned in. When my daughter was born it took us 2 days to decide on a name. So we may not have had our form turned in until 2 days after other parents whose children were born a day or two after our daughter.
Why are the hospital records not in play ???
Think about the lineup: Beck, Bair (sp?), Dobbs, BOR, Hannity, Greta. Currently, FOX almost has more viewers than CNN, MSNBC, and Headline News combined. With Dobbs, FOX would become the ‘27 Yankees of cable news. This lineup would produce the sweet sound of liberal heads exploding on a daily basis. I could live with that.
I saw a COLB from a guy born in 1930 that had 1930 in the number. I think it was posted here today because someone has another theory about it. To test that theory we need to see someone elses COLB born around 1961. But I saw the 1930 one on the internet. I think it is the same COLB
unreal. This should be pinged to everyone. It is obvious but most people just glaze over because it is so simple.
Nothing odd between those two pictures - IF you know anything about how BCs are handled now.
The information from the old form was dumped into a database. When you need a copy of your BC today, they print out the modern “certification”, which is legally equivalent to the old form. The old form is still locked away in a vault, but what you get is the new modern/standardized form.
Normal and legal. Don’t shoot the messenger.
Question now is: IS there an old form in a vault somewhere? or is the new form a fake, or the result of someone “gaming the system”?
(a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii, when it receives the following:
(1) A properly certified copy of the adoption decree, or certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department; and
(2) A copy of any investigatory report and recommendation which may have been prepared by the director of social services; and
(3) A report on a form to be approved by the department of health setting forth the following:
(A) Date of assumption of custody;
(C) Color or race;
(D) Approximate age of child;
(E) Name and address of the person or persons adopting said child;
(F) Name given to child by adoptive parent or parents;
(G) True or probable country of birth.
The true or probable country of birth shall be known as the place of birth, and the date of birth shall be determined by approximation. This report shall constitute an original certificate of birth; and
(4) A request that a new certificate of birth be established.
(b) After preparation of the new certificate of birth in the new name of the adopted person, the department of health shall seal and file the certified copy of the adoptive decree, the investigatory report and recommendation of the director of human services if any, the report constituting the original certificate of birth, and the request for a new certificate of birth. The sealed documents may be opened by the department only by an order of a court of record or when requested in accordance with section 578-14.5 or 578-15. The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents. [L 1979, c 203, §3; am L 1990, c 338, §3]
This certificate is a short form.
Hospital paperwork mistakes are common. My Dad was in the hopital earlier this year and 3 paperwork mistakes were made in 4 days.
Don't jump on the gun regarding this number deal because no one here knows the procedures or lack of that created these BC number/date process. It's all speculation at this point.
I love it when a plan comes together.
Oh I agree...we shouldn’t jump to conclusions...but, as I posted above, another inconsistency. I can understand that parents themselves may delay the filing (by not having a name ready). Again...just another speculation to discuss.
PLEASE see post #68, and then go back and look at the birth certificate pictures you posted again. What do you see?
Did you hear about the aliens that have these huge ships parked over all the worlds major cities?
I guess not, the MSM is ignoring the rest of the world to protect the UN-qualified usurper.
The thing is it still doesn't prove citizenship-the details are in the long form.That's where we find out if he's for real.
I've been trying to get peoples attention all day. I must have worked at least 4 threads, but no one caught on to what I was trying to show. Whew! Finally.
It was right in front of our faces all this time.
Agreed, the later serial number on the earlier date certificate doesn’t seem too strange. Different hospitals, wards or individual doctors could have each had a handful of blanks in a drawer, and took them as needed without worrying about number sequences. For example, every few days Doctors A and B take a handful of blanks and place them in their desk drawers. Doctor A’s drawer contains #21-24 and Doctor B’s drawer contains #25-28. On August 4, Doctor A doesn’t deliver any babies, but Doctor B uses #25. On August 5, Doctor A delivers #21 and 22. (Complicate this by many doctors, many birth locations, many babies, and you wonder that the numbers are as close as they are.)
We aren't even certain the man we know as Barrack Obama is the same person that was born on that day in that place. I can show up with a birth certificate of someone about my age and pass myself off as that person with little difficulty.
Too many gaps in the resume of the man now occupying the oval office to be certain who he is, or what he's done.
So that is what a real Hawaiian certificate of live birth looks like.
Uh....I’m dense. I still don’t get what you are trying to say.
“The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents. [L 1979, c 203, §3; am L 1990, c 338, §3]”
Wow! You may be on to something here. It makes perfect sense. Could this be why Obama does not have a normal long form BC?
The plot thickens.
Also possible...don’t you usually fill out a form when your baby is born, providing the name you chose? and give it to the nurse, who then files it, the Lord knows where...and maybe 0bama’s nurse delayed a day in sending the completed paperwork to the registrar.
My own birth certificate was not filed for about a month after I was born. (Long story, not really interesting.)
Look at the pictures of the two types of live birth certificates for Hawaii. Read post #68. Then look at the pictures again. Why is Obomas different? Why so little information?
You guys are late to the party most of this has been gone over in minute detail. The short Form may or may not be from a foreign birth but it says island-oahu, county Honolulu on it for location not a foreign country.
Second the smear through is in fact the date the copy was made as shown at factcheck jun 6 2007. Its a short form or abstract copy of the original (or a forgery) No I do not believe everything factcheck says and yes they are biased.
as for the 1961 vs 61 common sense says they went to four digits around 2000 otherwise 01 would be 1901 0r 2001. The extra digit 0 is because of population growth and more births per year. Older forms have the older numbers and newer copies of older BCs have been updated
the health department statement indicates Obama was born in Hawaii, but does not say if their is an amendment to the original form and it does not give hospital or doctor leaving the possibility of home birth or fraudulent certification.
I still want someone to explain to me how the little Obamination could have gotten into the US or Canada from Kenya without a BC or being on his mother’s passport? In the trunk of a car?nn OK one more extraordinary circumstance to be explained away.
Isn’t FactCheck so cute ?
The Last Word? We Wish.
July 28, 2009
We at FactCheck.org are grateful to the Obama birth certificate conspiracy theorists for hundreds of thousands of page views to our “Born in the U.S.A.” article from last November, and to our other items debunking some of their more outrageously false claims.
Were less grateful for their thousands of sometimes abusive e-mails claiming that were perpetuating a dangerous falsehood, among the more printable comments. Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii Department of Health, is also fed up.
She has now released her second statement (the first was made last November) saying that state records show Obama was indeed born in the U.S.A. This one states unequivocally that he is “a natural-born American citizen,” and will everyone please just leave it alone now? (We confess we are paraphrasing that second part.)
Do we expect this official statement from the keeper of Hawaiian birth records to quiet all the rumors, speculation and false claims? Of course not. We werent founded yesterday. In fact, doubters, well get you started with a suggestion on how to ignore this latest bit of evidence.
Fukino is willing to swear that Barrack Hussein Obama is a natural-born citizen. But thats probably because (warning: sarcasm alert), by an amazing coincidence, someone named Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii, while Barack (with one “r” and not two) Hussein Obama was being born in Kenya, or on the moon, or somewhere.
Does that sound adequately convincing without actually involving any evidence? Okay, then, go to town!
Update: The state of Hawaii has now posted the statement on their Web site and in the 24 hours since they sent it to reporters, theyve corrected the spelling error. Another excellent theory down the tubes!
Posted by Jess Henig on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 at 1:37 pm
On one of the earlier threads today there was a discussion on why Obama’s number was after and why he had a zero in front of his number. The top two are the twins’ number botton is BOs.
Are we misreading it? Could the zero in front of BOs actually be a the letter O. (For Original)? Then altered once be listed as A10641 or B10641 as court ordered changes took place. Do we know ANYONE In HI that know how the notation is arrived at or changed for legal purposes?
See post #68, letter (G)......
(G) True or probable country of birth.
The true or probable country of birth shall be known as the place of birth, and the date of birth shall be determined by approximation.
The birth certificates don't get numbers until they are processed by the Health Department. Obama's application arrived on Tuesday, the 8th. The girls' applications arrived on Friday, the 11th. They must have stamped the files with their arrival dates and left them sitting in a pile until Friday. Come Friday, they processed the whole batch, assigning them numbers out of arrival sequence. Then they sent the list out to the newspapers in time for publication on Sunday and Monday.
I thought that had been gone over a dozen times before.
The two are Certificates and the one is a Certification, and a false one according to one Freeper. We need one that looks like the first two and so far he’s refusing to produce one. What am I missing?
Wonder about 151-61-10639 and 151-61-10640 ??
But instead of getting a hot Kathleen Turner on the beach we get 0bummer in the White House!...LOL
what is show on Obama’s Certification of Live Birth (as shown of factcheck) for Island and County of birth? Look at the document.
Check the “Date Registered” on the 2 real BCs and Obama’s certification. The BCs show a registered date 3 days after BO’s cert.
FYI for the numbers. Twins born around same time. their number was
l51-61-10637. O’s document 151-1961-10641.
Will you please post a source for this?
Extremely interesting. It would explain so much.