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On "Birthers"
The Magic City Morning Star ^ | July 29, 2009 | Warren Bonesteel

Posted on 07/29/2009 7:25:35 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

So... If we can't ask about Obama's birth certificate without being dismissed as nutjob, tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorists, can we ask a few other questions without being maligned solely through the use of childish name calling, silly syllogism and sorry sophistry?

Ok. So let's forget the birth certificate for a moment and ask Mr. Obama a couple of other questions...or are we still allowed to do that?

* Kindergarten records (not even a kindergarten record?)
* Punahou school records
* Occidental College records
* Columbia University records
* Columbia thesis
* Harvard Law School records
* Harvard Law Review articles
* scholarly articles from the University of Chicago
* passport
* medical records
* files from his years as an Illinois state senator
* Illinois State Bar Association records
* baptism records, if any
* adoption records
All missing or otherwise unavilable.

There is no American birth certificate for Obama. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. A COLB is not an original, legal, birth certificate, nor is an ad in the lifestyle section of a local newspaper considered to be a legal birth certificate. Public statements by politicians and bureacrats are not legal birth certificates. Although such things can be considered as evidence, they are not proof. They are hearsay evidence, only. (In fact, Mr. Obama's sister, Maya Soetoro, has a Hawaiian COLB and she was born in Indonesia.)

The COLB from Hawaii is the same document that journalists and activists from both sides, as well as bureaucrats and politicians across the nation are offering as primary support of assertions that Mr. Obama is a natural born citizen of the U.S. If, in fact, he is a legal citizen, it does notnecessarily follow that he is a natural-born citizen. There is a difference. Follow-up question regarding his mother's citizenship status are also valid and do not require a tinfoil hat or a mental illness in order to ask them.

In view of other evidences, in view of his personal and business associations, and in view of Mr. Obama's apparently missing or hidden background and resume, the question about his birth certificate remains valid. In fact, it is the most important question of all.

Assuming there is no legal birth certificate (and at this point in time and in view of the lack of an original birth certificate, it can only be assumed that there isn't one), this means that the Electoral College never verified his eligibility before they voted for him. It means that FEC never verified his eligibility. It means that the DNC never verified his eligibility. It means that the state legislatures and state governors who signed off on the results of the Electoral College never verified his eligibility. It means that the House and Senate never verified his eligibility. 'Eligibility' meaning, in this case, that no one has actually *seen* an original, legal, 'long form' American birth certificate for Mr. Obama.

In all, it means that The Constitution has been effectively nullified either thorough incompetence or by corruption at every step of the political process. It means that American social and political contracts are completely broken down. This is why the question is so important.

The question remains valid. Where is the - original - birth certificate?

Conspiracy theories, tinfoil hats, mental illness and even rascism are not a requirement for asking such questions. In fact, such accusations against innocent Americans who are simply asking questions of their leadership tell us something about American discourse and freedom that should send shivers down your spines.

For the judicial system at all levels to declare that any American citizen has no standing to file a suit requesting to verify any elected official's qualifications says other things about America that should give you pause.

see also: http://obamaism.blogspot.com/


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: article2section1; barackobama; bho44; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; colb; congress; imom; manofmystery; mysteryman; naturalborn; obama; obamanoncitizenissue; obroma; transparency; usurper
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Indeed.
1 posted on 07/29/2009 7:25:36 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What happened to the transparency we were promised?


2 posted on 07/29/2009 7:30:22 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: cripplecreek

quite a few of our own long time fellow FReepers accuse us of being crazy over this BC thing. that is something that I just do not understand. why our are some FReepers acting like surrender monkeys on this, I don’t get it.


3 posted on 07/29/2009 7:35:36 PM PDT by bobby.223
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To: pissant

ping


4 posted on 07/29/2009 7:36:21 PM PDT by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.)
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To: cripplecreek

Promises from Obama.

Lies from the devil.

Same same.


5 posted on 07/29/2009 7:41:09 PM PDT by chris37
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To: bobby.223

They seem to think that we’ve stopped working on other things. We haven’t and I guess that’s what we need them to understand.

We’re still fighting Obamacare, and all the other marxist policies he’s promoting. The birth certificate thing is just another constant and growing irritation we can inflict on Obama.


6 posted on 07/29/2009 7:42:16 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
New indisputable proof.

http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?p=2713#comment-14238

7 posted on 07/29/2009 7:43:32 PM PDT by katiekins1 (Obama=DickTater N Chief)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

A very well reasoned position!

To which, I would add;

Who in their right mind, with the law on their side, would not spend $20 for a legal copy of a birth certificate, versus hundreds of thousands to lawyers to not reveal their birth certificate??

(Guilty your honor!)


8 posted on 07/29/2009 7:48:27 PM PDT by aShepard ("OK Class: repeat after me: "BUSH BAD- OBAMA SAVIOR OF MANKIND")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Indeed. Thank You Magic City Morning Star.
9 posted on 07/29/2009 7:48:42 PM PDT by jnsun (The LEFT: The need to manipulate others because of nothing productive to offer)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
All,

It comes down to this...this short form BC shown by Obama is the same as a college diploma, easily faked on anyone's PC and printer. If I, as a potential employer during a job interview requiring a college degree, had doubts about that diploma, I would be wise to ask for full and detailed college transcripts (the Long Form BC giving FULL DETAILS).

Isn't that we are really doing here and isn't it really that simple to understand? We have questions because questions have been raised. We want deeper details. Obizmal works for us...not vice versa...Show us what we need to continue employment or GTFO.

10 posted on 07/29/2009 7:54:32 PM PDT by IrishPennant (We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. ~Aesop)
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To: chris37
Promises from Obama. Lies from the devil. Same same.

So what, in your opinion, is the mathematical likelihood that Obama is the Antichrist spoken of in I John or the great beast of Revelations... somewhere between zero and one hundred percent probability?

11 posted on 07/29/2009 7:59:17 PM PDT by night reader (NRA Life Member since 1962)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Agree, And to those who always jump on these threads to say it’s a waste of time - we do resist Obama’s plans and policies in other ways, too. But being a pain in his ass over anything that distracts, wastes his airtime and energy, and slows the destruction of our country must be part of our strategy.


12 posted on 07/29/2009 8:01:50 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’d like to have a face to face encounter with one of these Leftists who have their heads up Zero’s crack. If he or she starts in with me about ‘birthers’, I’ll tell him it’s
‘put up or shut up’ time, and I am getting really tired of hearing their Nazi bullsh!t.


13 posted on 07/29/2009 8:03:01 PM PDT by Post Toasties (Conservatives allow the guilty to be executed but Lefties insist that the innocent be executed.)
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To: cripplecreek
What happened to the transparency we were promised?

Like the Constitution, laws, ethics, and plain decency...that's for the little people. obama is an elitist, socialist, and fascist. We'll never see true transparency from him or his administration / cohorts-in-crime.

14 posted on 07/29/2009 8:03:58 PM PDT by CodeMasterPhilzar (I'll keep my money, my guns, and my freedom. You can keep the "change.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Truly an OUTSTANDING post! However, he forgot to include in his list of missing or unverified Obama documents Obama’s selective service registration.


15 posted on 07/29/2009 8:05:05 PM PDT by 2harddrive (S)
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To: Post Toasties
I’d like to have a face to face encounter with one of these Leftists who have their heads up Zero’s crack.

Actually, I wouldn't. Yeech - what a disgusting image. I'll stand back decent distance for that particular exchange.

16 posted on 07/29/2009 8:05:09 PM PDT by Post Toasties (Conservatives allow the guilty to be executed but Lefties insist that the innocent be executed.)
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To: bobby.223
quite a few of our own long time fellow FReepers accuse us of being crazy over this BC thing. that is something that I just do not understand.

I agree that something is wrong --BIG TIME-- with the bc. I don't know if it's where, to whom (or not to whom) he was born, really I have no idea. But there's definitely something being hidden. Something HUGE.

I haven't called any "birther" crazy because there are legitimate bc questions that we all agree stink to high heaven. What I don't get is why so many FReeper "birthers" feel the need to denigrate other conservatives -- who are just as concerned about what this disgusting poseur is doing and has already done to this nation -- as we are about what is in or isn't in the bc. It's the denigration of fellow conservatives that turns many off.

I'm not accusing you in particular of this... it's just an observation from reading various bc threads. If people want to focus on the bc to the exclusion of everything else that's vitally important (death care, cap & tax, stimulus, you name it) then by all means, knock your socks off. Maybe it will eventually grow legs! I'm just saying we're all on the same side here, and internecine insults (from both sides) is quite harmful.

17 posted on 07/29/2009 8:05:44 PM PDT by Fudd Fan (Embrace your inner Mengele... support doc 0zer0's snake oil death care!)
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To: bobby.223
why our are some FReepers acting like surrender monkeys on this, I don’t get it.

They have bought into the smear tactics of the MSM and the Obama machine. They think that if they can paint everyone who has questions about Obama's biography as a nut, that they will silence the questions. And so many freepers have joined the MSM chorus and think that simply asking Obama to prove his eligibility or to show us his pedigree is the functional equivalent of accusing GWB of plotting the 9/11 attacks.

Well it's going to take more than the fear of embarrassment to stop me from calling on Obama to show us his Birth Certificate. He may have been born in the USA, but he's definitely hiding something. I think it is imperative that whatever he is trying to bury, that we, as patriotic Americans, have a duty to dig it up.

18 posted on 07/29/2009 8:07:08 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: night reader

I’m convinced that he is him. To answer your question, 100%.

When I look at this picture, I am frightened beyond my ability to even describe scared.

Maybe I am just crazy. I hope that this is the case. otherwise...

http://www.politicalsurrogate.com/index-1._President_Barack_Obama_raises_his_glass_in_a_toast_Getty_Images.jpg


19 posted on 07/29/2009 8:09:29 PM PDT by chris37
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To: CodeMasterPhilzar

What happened to the transparency we were promised?


I can almost hear them laughing in the WH.


20 posted on 07/29/2009 8:10:15 PM PDT by Know et al (Everything I know I read in the newspaper and that's the reason for my ignorance: Will Rogers)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I kept on telling you this movement was going no place, now even Ann Coulter our favorite firebomb thrower disowned the birther movement. No I dont care if you think it violates the constitution because you are not hurting Obama and probably never will because he is already president.

Try health care reform. The anti-socialized mediciners have done him more damage in 2 months than you folks have since you started about 9 months ago and ever will


21 posted on 07/29/2009 8:10:36 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: chris37
I’m convinced that he is him. To answer your question, 100%.

I'm not quite up that high, but I'd go a solid 80%. And if Obama isn't him, I hope I don't live long enough to face him!

22 posted on 07/29/2009 8:17:23 PM PDT by night reader (NRA Life Member since 1962)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Add to your list any type of intelligence or scholastic aptitude test scores.


23 posted on 07/29/2009 8:17:46 PM PDT by Poincare
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To: cripplecreek
They seem to think that we’ve stopped working on other things. We haven’t and I guess that’s what we need them to understand.

We’re still fighting Obamacare, and all the other marxist policies he’s promoting. The birth certificate thing is just another constant and growing irritation we can inflict on Obama.

CC, I was going to post a comment exactly like yours, but I see you beat me to it.

This is not an either/or thing, it is another front on which to legimately attack Zero and help knock some sense into our fellow Americans who have been mesmerized by the hype and spin about Hussein.

Democrats are the enemy of freedom, and Zero is the head Democrat.

24 posted on 07/29/2009 8:17:53 PM PDT by exit82 (Sarah Palin is President No. 45. Get behind her, GOP, or get out of the way.)
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To: 2harddrive
Truly an OUTSTANDING post! However, he forgot to include in his list of missing or unverified Obama documents Obama’s selective service registration.

*******

I recently looked at Obama's Selective Service registration form on the internet from about 25 years ago.

I was amazed how different it looked compared to Obama's signature on the January 2009 letter that Obama sent to Kapiolani Hospital.

To me, it looked like two different people signed the two documents.

25 posted on 07/29/2009 8:22:23 PM PDT by john mirse
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To: chris37

That picture provides one more example of Obama’s upbringing. He doesn’t even hold his wine glass correctly.


26 posted on 07/29/2009 8:24:22 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: john mirse

Coincidence? I think NOT.


27 posted on 07/29/2009 8:24:48 PM PDT by 2harddrive (S)
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To: sickoflibs
I kept on telling you this movement was going no place, now even Ann Coulter our favorite firebomb thrower disowned the birther movement. No I dont care if you think it violates the constitution because you are not hurting Obama and probably never will because he is already president.

Don't drop it. Even if he turns out to be born on some island (unlikely in my opinion), should be easy to make Zero a real a-hole for spending millions holding out about it. 'Transparency', my latrine.

28 posted on 07/29/2009 8:25:24 PM PDT by Post Toasties (Conservatives allow the guilty to be executed but Lefties insist that the innocent be executed.)
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To: Know et al
What happened to the transparency we were promised?

What?!?!? Tranparent lies not good enough for you?

29 posted on 07/29/2009 8:29:06 PM PDT by Post Toasties (Conservatives allow the guilty to be executed but Lefties insist that the innocent be executed.)
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To: bobby.223
why our are some FReepers acting like surrender monkeys on this, I don’t get it.

I have nothing but speculation to offer you in response. I have wondered the same thing ever since the birth certificate issue surfaced. Even from the very beginning there were Freepers who condemned the rest of us for having the temerity to humbly ask Mr. Obama for his legal bona fides.

I don't include the obvious plants and Obot infiltrators in my speculation. They're fairly easy to spot, and are soon dispatched by the Zot Patrol.

It's the Freepers who have long histories of level-headed discourse, and who have shown their patriotism over and over again, that puzzle me. I honestly do not get why some people don't understand the basic elements of this controversy.

30 posted on 07/29/2009 8:30:47 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: IrishPennant
Absolutely.

Folks should think about, as well, the fact that not once in history, and certainly in memory no matter how long we have lived and voted, has a President been elected with NO background. Every other one in memory has had their theses dissected, the grades viewed, whatever papers they had written, everything, out there for all to see. Remember what they tried to do with President and even Laura Bush's? Remember how they tried to spin the fact the Bush's grades were better than Kerry's?

Even Sotomayer’s were out there!

Not so for zero!

31 posted on 07/29/2009 8:38:20 PM PDT by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The Constitution has been effectively nullified either thorough incompetence or by corruption at every step of the political process. It means that American social and political contracts are completely broken down.

There is plenty of irony in the fact that if the BC issue was resolved against Hussein, it would be the lynchpin to set in motion a chain of events that could re-establish the integrity of the political process.
32 posted on 07/29/2009 8:38:23 PM PDT by Canedawg ( "Government cant make you happy or healthy or wealthy or wise." - S. Palin)
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To: bobby.223

Maybe they really want “free” health care, government cheese and a spiffy “Civilian Defense Corps” uniform.


33 posted on 07/29/2009 8:38:51 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet ("I won't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Admiral IsorokoYamamoto)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You know this is growing when the left starts worrying, which they are!


34 posted on 07/29/2009 8:40:29 PM PDT by CaptRon
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To: katiekins1

I agree. This has been pointed out before. A “natural born citizen” would not have dual citizenship with Great Britain. And we still don’t have all the facts about Indonesia.


35 posted on 07/29/2009 8:41:37 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Windflier

Isn’t the issue here that his U.S. citizenship had to be renounced to attend the indonesian school? And you don’t get it back technically?


36 posted on 07/29/2009 8:42:06 PM PDT by bicyclerepair (Thank you Mr. Robinson (toodamtall1@yahoo.com))
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To: bobby.223
quite a few of our own long time fellow FReepers accuse us of being crazy over this BC thing. that is something that I just do not understand. why our are some FReepers acting like surrender monkeys on this, I don’t get it.

I hear ya.

What bothers me is that some of them are mocking their fellow FReepers to the point of being insolent.

It's their right to disagree but not to be disagreeable.

37 posted on 07/29/2009 8:44:21 PM PDT by melancholy
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is a very good post. Writer Warren Bonesteel asks a very relevant question that the left can’t reasonably answer.

We Americans who are asking these most basic and innocent questions shouldn’t be demonized for doing so by Obama’s supporters. If anything, they should be looking to him to prove himself to the doubters, and show the world that he is above all reproach (as they seem to think he is).

Instead, we’re viciously attacked by Obama’s supporters for simply questioning his bona fides. Their response is what’s unreasonable. It speaks volumes about what the left suspects of Obama themselves.

If they honestly had any faith that he was eligible to hold office, they would rush to support the release of the same documents that we’re seeking, if only to prove us wrong. Yet, they’re not.

If they actually had the ammo, they’d be firing on us now. Instead, they’re name-calling, and belittling us. Sounds like an admission of guilt to me.

By their conduct, they show themselves to be enablers and co-conspirators in this massive cover-up, which also lends a great deal of credence to the theory that Obama really is hiding something, and is the fraud that we suspect him to be.


38 posted on 07/29/2009 8:44:29 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Post Toasties
It doesn't bother me much but I notice MSNBC talks about it more than any other station and readers please dont give me the Palin theory "because it is a big threat" which is a illogical theory . Even if he was born in Cuba its not a political winner. It was always be a political loser. The idea to challenge a black man, already seen as born discriminated against, as being removed from office for being born in the wrong place would make the Clinton Impeachment as looking like a positive move for republicans.MSNBC talks about birthers and Palin for one reason.(I would be happy if either changed)

The birthers try the claim they don't care about politics but care about the constitution. not believable.

39 posted on 07/29/2009 8:47:39 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: bicyclerepair
Isn’t the issue here that his U.S. citizenship had to be renounced to attend the indonesian school? And you don’t get it back technically?

I'm not well enough acquainted with the immigration and naturalization law concerning that to comment, but I have seen comments here with links to the statute law that cover that.

The Indonesian citizenship question is only one of a great many troubling inconsistencies with Obama's past. There are far more questions about The One Enigma than answers.

40 posted on 07/29/2009 8:54:44 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
It speaks volumes about what the left suspects of Obama themselves.

Even 0bambi suspects himself! He re-assures him self in every speech: I'm the President! I was elected President. I was elected to do blah..blah..blah.

He can't believe that he pulled a rabbit out of a hat.

41 posted on 07/29/2009 8:54:54 PM PDT by melancholy
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To: sickoflibs
Even if he was born in Cuba its not a political winner.

It sure could be because it's should be such a direct attack on Zero's much vaunted 'transparency' that this 'transparency' should be turned into a national joke.

42 posted on 07/29/2009 8:55:57 PM PDT by Post Toasties (Conservatives allow the guilty to be executed but Lefties insist that the innocent be executed.)
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To: aShepard; 2ndDivisionVet
Who in their right mind, with the law on their side, would not spend $20 for a legal copy of a birth certificate, versus hundreds of thousands to lawyers to not reveal their birth certificate??

Hey, if I were running for President, I'd take the news crews and cameras down to the County Recorder's Office, order and pay for my (long form) birth certificate, and hold it up for them and all for the world to see.

43 posted on 07/29/2009 8:59:22 PM PDT by thecodont
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To: night reader

I want to stick my thumb in the eye of the devil.


44 posted on 07/29/2009 9:03:47 PM PDT by chris37
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To: melancholy
Even 0bambi suspects himself! He re-assures him self in every speech: I'm the President! I was elected President. I was elected to do blah..blah..blah.

If there's one thing that old cops know about criminals, it's that they always leave clues to their crimes. You see, they actually want to be caught (believe it or not). It's the cop's job to help them stop themselves from continuing to injure their neighbors.

Obama has left a trail of clues a mile wide, all during the campaign, and since, but it's only the "Birthers" that are picking up on them.

As you said, one of those easily spotted clues is the fact that he continues to remind everyone that "I won", "I'm the President", ad nauseum. He can't believe that he's gotten away with it, and he spills the beans about his crime in lots of small ways.

No one who's comfortable in their own skin acts the way Obama does. Hell, he's so screwed up over his huge withhold that he can't even ask for extra syrup without reading it off a teleprompter. Now, that's some kind of nervous!

45 posted on 07/29/2009 9:05:20 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well written!


46 posted on 07/29/2009 9:05:46 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Post Toasties

I honestly dont think it will sell. In December Rush said personal attacks didnt work on Obama or B Clinton and wont work. He said we must beat Obama on policy and guess what?, health care reform attackes are working: health care. I think those that didnt start out hating Obama wont care if it was true where he was born, “Dont ask dont tell”


47 posted on 07/29/2009 9:07:00 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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To: ladyjane

heh. The only thing I can even see in the picture are the most evil looking eyes that I have ever seen.


48 posted on 07/29/2009 9:07:41 PM PDT by chris37
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To: Post Toasties; sickoflibs
It sure could be because it's should be such a direct attack on Zero's much vaunted 'transparency' that this 'transparency' should be turned into a national joke.

What if Obama really was born in Hawaii but doesn't want to show his long form birth cert. because keeping this issue alive makes conservatives look bad?

49 posted on 07/29/2009 9:07:47 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Obama's multi- trillion dollar agenda would be a "man caused disaster")
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To: melancholy; Windflier
Even 0bambi suspects himself! He re-assures him self in every speech: I'm the President! I was elected President. I was elected to do blah..blah..blah.

When he appeared on CNN for his "impromptu" statement about the Gates affair, he said something about how he could be "shot" for "breaking into the White House" "but this is MY house now." I couldn't believe it. First he makes some statement about being a victim due to his race, THEN loudly reassures himself the place is HIS. Not temporary gov't housing for a public servant, but HIS house.

He has to keep reassuring himself it's true because in his heart of hearts, he knows it's a total lie.

It's like that silly "Office of the President Elect" seal he was using before the Inauguration. He should be using the "Office of the Usurper President" or the "Office of the Make-Believe President" instead; it would be more appropriate.

50 posted on 07/29/2009 9:10:25 PM PDT by thecodont
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