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Pre-Debunking the next Birther news- the "lost" Kenyan Birth Certificate (Liberal forum)
www.knoxviews.com ^ | 08/03/09 | reform4

Posted on 08/03/2009 10:00:56 AM PDT by TennesseeGirl

Submitted by reform4 on Mon, 2009/08/03 - 11:48am.

Be prepared, the news will be awash over the next two weeks with Taitz screaming about the Kenyan birth certificate she found.

A full debunking is listed here: (Link...)

High points: - The document lists Mombasa as party of Kenya. Mombasa did not become part of Kenya until 1963. It used to be part of Zanzibar. -Why would a predominantly Muslim nation actually say "Christian name" (as opposed to name) on the birth certificate? - The forger incorrectly calculated Obama's fathers age. - The hospital was in an area called the "Central Nyanza District," not Nyanza Province. The regions were changed to provinces in 1970. -The document is dated 5 August 1964 -- a Saturday. From what I can find, Kenyan guvmint offices close early on Friday and are closed on Saturdays. Oooops - This piece of paper certainly looks nice and new to be 45 years old -- unless the Kenyans were using acid-free paper back in 1964 - The hospital is called Coast Provincial General Hospital (sometimes said to be Coast Province General Hospital), not Coast General Hospital. - Finally, Officials of Coast Province General Hospital reported: “We do not have computerized records going back to the 1960’s and can only sort through our archives by hand,” Dr. Christopher Mwanga, an administrator at the Mombasa hospital tells GLOBE. “We have searched for all the names of babies born on Aug. 4, 1961, and have not found the name of Barack Hussein Obama.

Be prepared to call into WNOX when this becomes a local talk show topic again.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 2012; birthcertificate; certifigate; democrats; hillary; obama; pumas
The Democrat's strategy.
1 posted on 08/03/2009 10:00:57 AM PDT by TennesseeGirl
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To: TennesseeGirl

I have seen these talking points brought up and taken down piecemeal on various threads. Can anyone put together the points and their rebuttals.


2 posted on 08/03/2009 10:04:18 AM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: TennesseeGirl

“The Democrat’s strategy. “

More like a KGB disinformation campaign. Stir up mud, cloud the waters.


3 posted on 08/03/2009 10:04:53 AM PDT by y6162 (uish..)
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To: TennesseeGirl

As has been eloquently stated on several long threads, the only way to check the validity of this B/C is to compare it against valid B/Cs of the time.

We simply can’t say that they wouldn’t have done this or they wouldn’t have done that. They might well have worked on Saturdays - ‘in a heavily Muslim province’. They might well have called their province one thing or another on letterheads. We don’t know - the past is full of little surprises.

So - does the B/C match others of the period, and does it retail back to a registry entry? Those are the questions.


4 posted on 08/03/2009 10:07:48 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: agere_contra

Yep, book and page number, and see if there’s an original on file


5 posted on 08/03/2009 10:09:43 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: TennesseeGirl
Why would a predominantly Muslim nation actually say "Christian name"

Good lord, these people are stupid. Kenya is 80% Christian, 10% Muslim, 10% other. That's today. In 1961, when it was under British (Christian) rule, it was even less.

And "Christian name" was a very common way of saying "first name" at that time.

I can't believe we allow these idiots to vote.

6 posted on 08/03/2009 10:09:43 AM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

They are also under the impression it’s the original document, they don’t even know the difference, like with the Hawaii COLB


7 posted on 08/03/2009 10:11:20 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: TennesseeGirl

Listing Mombasa as a birth place in Kenya does seem to negate the authenticity of the birth certificate. But, for the record, Kenya is NOT a predominantly Muslim nation. Kenya is 82% Christian, (10% traditional East African and nearly all of its English-speaking population would have identified as Christian in 1962. “Christian name” is what they probably would have put.


8 posted on 08/03/2009 10:13:06 AM PDT by dangus (I am JimThompson)
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To: ckilmer
I have seen these talking points brought up and taken down piecemeal on various threads. Can anyone put together the points and their rebuttals.

Don't debate them on this. They are probably right, it is probably a forgery. We just want the disclosure of Obama's birth certificate. Don't theorize on what the facts are. That is how they will make you into a kook.

9 posted on 08/03/2009 10:14:38 AM PDT by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: TennesseeGirl

I can’t help but think that Mrs. Taitz would better serve the world by going back to full-time dentistry. Plenty of people need pain relief there. She’s just causing anguish in politics.


10 posted on 08/03/2009 10:15:01 AM PDT by TomOnTheRun
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To: 1000 silverlings
I bet the page has disappeared in Kenya.
11 posted on 08/03/2009 10:15:43 AM PDT by taxtruth (END THE FED AND OBAMA)
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To: ckilmer; TennesseeGirl
OK, this one is too easy:

The document is dated 5 August 1964 -- a Saturday. From what I can find, Kenyan guvmint offices close early on Friday and are closed on Saturdays. Oooops [...]

Yes, oooops. The document is dated the 17 February 1964, which was a Monday!

12 posted on 08/03/2009 10:15:57 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: taxtruth

Well that will look a tad suspicious, kind of like the non-existent fire that supposedly destroyed the original in Hawaii, and then didn’t, depending on who you ask


13 posted on 08/03/2009 10:19:14 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Always Right

As a matter of policy I would assume that anything purporting to be from African is fraudulent and wait to be proven wrong.


14 posted on 08/03/2009 10:19:14 AM PDT by freespirited (The Surgeon General has determined that Harry and Louise are dangerous to your health.)
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To: TennesseeGirl
The document is dated 5 August 1964 -- a Saturday.

1964-08-05 is a Wednesday.

15 posted on 08/03/2009 10:23:22 AM PDT by sourcery (Obama Lied. The Economy Died!)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Good catch!


16 posted on 08/03/2009 10:23:51 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: sourcery

Even better catch!


17 posted on 08/03/2009 10:24:32 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: TennesseeGirl
The document is dated 5 August 1964 -- a Saturday.

5 August 1964 was a Wednesday.

http://scphillips.com/cgi-bin/day.cgi

18 posted on 08/03/2009 10:26:08 AM PDT by woofie
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

I’ve been reading a lot of these “debunkers.” Everything they’ve come up with so far amounts to: “The forger of this document did things that don’t agree with my suppositions about Kenya, geography, chemistry, the English language, etc.”


19 posted on 08/03/2009 10:26:11 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: sourcery
How dumb are these people over at DU?

It's dated Feb 17, 1964

20 posted on 08/03/2009 10:27:04 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: agere_contra
As has been eloquently stated on several long threads, the only way to check the validity of this B/C is to compare it against valid B/Cs of the time.

As I point out in my posting on the subject, WorldNetDaily claims to have a legitimate specimen on hand with which to compare:

"WND was able to obtain other birth certificates from Kenya for purposes of comparison, and the form of the documents appear to be identical."

However, as I made note:

"Unfortunately, WND did not immediately provide a copy of the specimen used for comparison purposes."

If I were WND, I'd have scanned the legitimate registration and posted it along with the photo of the one in question. That way, everyone could have a better frame of reference with which to form a better conclusion.

-Phil

21 posted on 08/03/2009 10:27:12 AM PDT by Phil_GA (http://www.therightsideoflife.com)
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To: agere_contra; sourcery
Even better catch!

:(

(Just kiddin')

22 posted on 08/03/2009 10:27:29 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: sourcery

5th of August 1961 is listed as date of registration...a monday


23 posted on 08/03/2009 10:28:15 AM PDT by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: 1000 silverlings
It's dated Feb 17, 1964

Which is a Monday.

24 posted on 08/03/2009 10:29:01 AM PDT by sourcery (Obama Lied. The Economy Died!)
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To: rolling_stone

my error a saturday...


25 posted on 08/03/2009 10:30:17 AM PDT by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: TomOnTheRun

I agree. Let’s all just shut up and let The Leader make all the decisions. Thank you, TomOnTheRun, since May 29, 2009.


26 posted on 08/03/2009 10:30:24 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: ScaniaBoy

Nah you’re right. Both catches equally good :0)

I’m just worried about people like me who assumed the DU-guy could read a calendar :0(


27 posted on 08/03/2009 10:30:37 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: rolling_stone
5th of August 1961 is listed as date of registration...a monday

No, that date actually is a Saturday. Perhaps there's a typo in the original post?

28 posted on 08/03/2009 10:31:09 AM PDT by sourcery (Obama Lied. The Economy Died!)
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To: sourcery

Yes, the day the certified copy was dated. Not the day the birth was registered, not the the day someone, who knows who, was born, and not the day the Republic of Kenya came into existence. but I don’t think we should help them out any more, let’s just laugh our ***** off


29 posted on 08/03/2009 10:32:45 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: TennesseeGirl

“FREE THE LONG FORM!”


30 posted on 08/03/2009 10:33:25 AM PDT by Dryman (Now, Back to Lurking)
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To: Arthur McGowan

If someone was going to go through the trouble of creating a fake document like this (one that looks very authentic visually) why would they load it down with false info?

If you want to sell a fake for a reasonable amount of money you would expect the buyer to do some validation.

If you were gonna create a thousand or more of them and sell em for $100. a pop....or some very low price,it wouldnt matter, the sucker would take a chance,pay the money and move on.

But not a supposedly one of a kind (or thereabouts) object


31 posted on 08/03/2009 10:33:57 AM PDT by woofie
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To: Phil_GA
"If I were WND, I'd have scanned the legitimate registration and posted it along with the photo of the one in question. That way, everyone could have a better frame of reference with which to form a better conclusion."

Maybe WND is waiting for the left to get their talking points/spin out there first before they present the other documents. I hope that is the case.
32 posted on 08/03/2009 10:34:46 AM PDT by Salthawk
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To: sourcery

Even if it turns out to be a Saturday, they don’t know when gov offices in Kenya were open. the British routinely worked half a day on Saturday. I remember the DMV in California being open on Saturday for a while, and the PO is open half a day now.


33 posted on 08/03/2009 10:36:05 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Arthur McGowan
I agree. Let’s all just shut up and let The Leader make all the decisions.

I'm not sure who you are agreeing with. It's certainly not me. I believe no such thing and, as such, would never utter it. Hope this all works out for you though. =)
34 posted on 08/03/2009 10:36:36 AM PDT by TomOnTheRun
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To: agere_contra
the only way to check the validity of this B/C is to compare it against valid B/Cs of the time.

That makes too much sense.....

.....Those opposed to this BC being real want to squelch investigation by saying if is obviously forged and that should end investigation.

.....Those who are desperately in favor of this BC being real want to believe it no matter what.

As you said, the past is full of surprises. I do a lot of genealogical studies. I can say that information on official forms in the past has been very inconsistent, and even wrong. Forms that were supposed to be used were not used. Forms that should not be used were used. Sometimes information on official records is clearly wrong despite being the official record.

The best way to see if this BC is even possibly legitimate is to compare it to others known to be real of the time. Cut out the noise people and let's be logical about this. It may very well end up being fake, but until I see convincing evidence either way, I am on the fence.

35 posted on 08/03/2009 10:37:12 AM PDT by SteamShovel (When hope trumps reality, there is no hope at all.)
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To: 1000 silverlings

I think it’s really strange that Hillary is going to Africa.
What for?


36 posted on 08/03/2009 10:39:04 AM PDT by taxtruth (END THE FED AND OBAMA)
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To: taxtruth

Hildebeast safari?


37 posted on 08/03/2009 10:41:14 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings

Dumb enough to think Obama is a good president.

They’re liberals, don’t expect common sense.


38 posted on 08/03/2009 10:50:11 AM PDT by jazminerose
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To: taxtruth

Well one thing for sure is that she will have one agenda we will hear about and the other......(crickets chirping).


39 posted on 08/03/2009 11:37:21 AM PDT by freebird5850 (O-Bomba is not the Messia. Jesus was a carpenter and could build a cabinet!)
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To: TennesseeGirl
Mombasa was, in 1961, still under British rule and while officially considered part of Tanzania (Tanganyika, actually - also under British rule at the time) it was part of the "British Coastal Protectorate". Kenya did not become a republic until 1963.

In other words, the document is in fact , at least on this point, internally consistent since it was issued well after Kenya became a republic with the Coastal Province as part of the country. If Hussein was born in Mombasa on August 4, 1961 the original BC would have been issued under British colonial rules. This later certified copy would have been issued in the Coastal Province of the Republic of Kenya.

It may be debunked in some other way but the Tanzania vs. Kenya point holds no water.

40 posted on 08/03/2009 11:37:53 AM PDT by katana
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To: TennesseeGirl

Everyone don’t forget to look at yesterdays thread by
BP2: Kenyan Birth Certificate - 1964 Divorce Timeline
put that in the seach.
It had 12,135 views. I think BP2 explained all of this
very well. Makes sense to me....


41 posted on 08/03/2009 11:40:03 AM PDT by savage woman
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To: Phil_GA

If I was WND, I’D seriously consider the rope-a-DOPE strategy the Obots and the leftist if I had many Kenyan documents to compare with and other evidence.

Let them get out on the weak tree limb, think they have muddied or debunked something, then chop it off watching it crash.


42 posted on 08/03/2009 11:55:45 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: 1000 silverlings
$ cal 1964
                               1964

       January               February                 March
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa   Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa   Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
          1  2  3  4                      1    1  2  3  4  5  6  7
 5  6  7  8  9 10 11    2  3  4  5  6  7  8    8  9 10 11 12 13 14
12 13 14 15 16 17 18    9 10 11 12 13 14 15   15 16 17 18 19 20 21
19 20 21 22 23 24 25   16 17 18 19 20 21 22   22 23 24 25 26 27 28
26 27 28 29 30 31      23 24 25 26 27 28 29   29 30 31

        April                   May                   June
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa   Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa   Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
          1  2  3  4                   1  2       1  2  3  4  5  6
 5  6  7  8  9 10 11    3  4  5  6  7  8  9    7  8  9 10 11 12 13
12 13 14 15 16 17 18   10 11 12 13 14 15 16   14 15 16 17 18 19 20
19 20 21 22 23 24 25   17 18 19 20 21 22 23   21 22 23 24 25 26 27
26 27 28 29 30         24 25 26 27 28 29 30   28 29 30
                       31
        July                  August                September
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa   Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa   Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
          1  2  3  4                      1          1  2  3  4  5
 5  6  7  8  9 10 11    2  3  4  5  6  7  8    6  7  8  9 10 11 12
12 13 14 15 16 17 18    9 10 11 12 13 14 15   13 14 15 16 17 18 19
19 20 21 22 23 24 25   16 17 18 19 20 21 22   20 21 22 23 24 25 26
26 27 28 29 30 31      23 24 25 26 27 28 29   27 28 29 30
                       30 31
       October               November               December
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa   Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa   Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
             1  2  3    1  2  3  4  5  6  7          1  2  3  4  5
 4  5  6  7  8  9 10    8  9 10 11 12 13 14    6  7  8  9 10 11 12
11 12 13 14 15 16 17   15 16 17 18 19 20 21   13 14 15 16 17 18 19
18 19 20 21 22 23 24   22 23 24 25 26 27 28   20 21 22 23 24 25 26
25 26 27 28 29 30 31   29 30                  27 28 29 30 31

Unix rocks!

43 posted on 08/03/2009 12:13:03 PM PDT by zeugma (Will it be nukes or aliens? Time will tell.)
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To: 1000 silverlings
Hildebeast safari?

LOL.

44 posted on 08/03/2009 12:27:29 PM PDT by Stentor
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To: zeugma

cool


45 posted on 08/03/2009 1:01:42 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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