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The Congealing Pot--Today's Immigrants Are Different from Waves Past
American Enterprise Institute ^ | Monday, August 24, 2009 (don't ask me) | Jason Richwine

Posted on 08/08/2009 8:38:50 AM PDT by 1rudeboy

They're not just like the Irish--or the Italians or the Poles, for that matter. The large influx of Hispanic immigrants after 1965 represents a unique assimilation challenge for the United States. Many optimistic observers have assumed--incorrectly, it turns out--that Hispanic immigrants will follow the same economic trajectory European immigrants did in the early part of the last century. Many of those Europeans came to America with no money and few skills, but their status steadily improved. Their children outperformed them, and their children's children were often indistinguishable from the "founding stock." The speed of economic assimilation varied somewhat by ethnic group, but three generations were typically enough to turn "ethnics" into plain old Americans.

This would be the preferred outcome for the tens of millions of Hispanic Americans, who are significantly poorer and less educated on average than native whites. When immigration skeptics question the wisdom of importing so many unskilled people into our nation at one time, the most common response cites the remarkable progress of Europeans a century ago. "People used to say the Irish or the Poles would always be poor, but look at them today!" For Hispanics, we are led to believe, the same thing will happen.

But that claim isn't true. Though about three-quarters of Hispanics living in the U.S. today are either immigrants or the children of immigrants, a significant number have roots here going back many generations. We have several ways to measure their intergenerational progress, and the results leave little room for optimism about their prospects for assimilation.

The Hispanic rate of assimilation from the first to the second generation is only slightly lower than the assimilation rate of more successful groups of immigrants.

Before detailing some of those analyses, we should recognize the importance of this question. If we were to discover that, say, Slovenian immigrants did not assimilate over several generations, there would be little cause for alarm. There are simply too few Slovenian Americans to change our society in a meaningful way. Hispanics, on the other hand, have risen from 4 percent to 15 percent of the American population since 1970. The Census Bureau projects that, if there is no change in immigration policy, 30 percent of the nation will be Hispanic by 2050. To avoid developing a large economic underclass, we need to confront the question of whether they will assimilate

The children of Hispanic immigrants (the second generation) actually stay in school much longer and earn a considerably higher wage than their parents. In fact, the Hispanic rate of assimilation from the first to the second generation is only slightly lower than the assimilation rate of more successful groups of immigrants. Most second-generation Hispanics make up nearly as much ground as the children of European immigrants would if they grew up in the same disadvantaged situation.

But the good news ends there, and two problems arise. First, the second generation still does not come close to matching the socioeconomic status of white natives. Even if Hispanics were to keep climbing the ladder each generation, their assimilation would be markedly slower than that of other groups. But even that view is overly optimistic, because of the second, larger problem with Hispanic assimilation: It appears to stall after the second generation. We see little further ladder-climbing from the grandchildren of Hispanic immigrants. They do not rise out of the lower class.

The most straightforward statistical evidence of this stall in Hispanic assimilation comes from the Current Population Survey (CPS), which asks respondents their ethnicity, where they were born, and where their parents were born. From this information we can construct an account of the first generation (foreign-born), the second generation (born in the U.S. with at least one foreign-born parent), and the "3+" generations (born in the U.S. to two U.S.-born parents) among the Hispanic respondents.

This chart [I couldn't find it here or elsewhere] shows how Hispanic Americans compare with white natives generation by generation. The annual earnings of second-generation Hispanic men are substantially higher than those of the first generation. However, the 3+ generations have about the same earnings as the second, still well below white natives. No generational progress beyond the second generation is evident.

The educational picture does not look much better. The children of Hispanic immigrants are much better educated than their parents. However, American-born Hispanics still have high dropout and low college-completion rates compared with white natives, and there is little improvement from the second to the 3+ generations. Again, progress stalls.

These results do not depend on the time period considered. Economists Jeffrey Grogger and Stephen Trejo reached the same conclusions when they used CPS data from the mid-1990s for a similar analysis of Mexican Americans. And other datasets tell the same story. One study reported results from the Latino National Political Survey, conducted in 1989 and 1990. Among its striking findings was that the percentage of Mexican-American households with incomes higher than $50,000 rose from 7 percent in the first generation to 11 percent in the second. But the same statistic in the third and fourth generations stayed at 11 percent, at a time when the national rate was 24 percent. Another study, the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, began tracking a representative sample of young Americans in 1979. By 1993, the Hispanic 3+ generations in that sample had, if anything, slightly worse outcomes than the second generation in terms of wages, educational attainment, and cognitive test scores.

The studies discussed so far are cross-sectional--statistical snapshots captured at single points in time. Since each of the generations being compared lives in the same era, the second-generation respondents are not the actual children of the first generation, nor are the third-generation respondents the children of the second. But longitudinal studies--taking one cohort of Hispanic immigrants, then examining their children and their children's children over several decades--tell a similarly pessimistic story.

Economist James P. Smith pieced together census and CPS data starting in 1940 and ending in 1997. He was able to compare eight different immigrant birth cohorts with their children and grandchildren in later years. Smith found that, contrary to the cross-sectional studies, the Hispanic educational deficit relative to whites did become smaller between the second and 3+ generations. This might indicate an increase in their skills relative to whites, but it might also reflect the trend in the mid-20th century for working-class people to stay in school longer. Did the educational gains for Hispanics affect their relative earning power?

Not by much. The table below, reproduced from Smith's study, shows average Hispanic-American and Mexican-American earnings by birth cohort and generation as a percentage of average white-native earnings. In the six most recent cohorts, the Hispanic panel shows only modest gains from the second to the 3+ generations. For example, Hispanic immigrants born between 1915 and 1919 earned 70.9 percent of what contemporary white natives earned. The children of those immigrants earned 82.3 percent, and the immigrants' grandchildren earned 84.8 percent.

For Mexicans in particular the picture is even worse. In five of the six most recent birth cohorts, the Mexican 3+ generations earn a marginally lower fraction of the white-native wage than does the second generation.

A similar longitudinal analysis was recently conducted by UCLA sociologists Edward E. Telles and Vilma Ortiz. They revived a 1960s-era cross-sectional survey of Mexican Americans by re-interviewing many of the original respondents more than 40 years later. By adding information about the parents and children of the respondents in this second survey wave, the authors were able to construct a longitudinal dataset similar to Smith's. Their results show continued improvement in high-school-graduation rates from the second to the 3+ generations, but small gains in college graduation and stagnant relative wages.

Taken as a whole, the research on Hispanic assimilation presents two possible conclusions. Either Hispanic assimilation will be exceedingly slow--taking at least four or five generations, and probably several more--or it will not happen. In either case, Hispanic immigration will have a serious long-term consequence: The grandchildren of today's Hispanic immigrants will lag far behind the grandchildren of today's white natives.

So why do Hispanics, on average, not assimilate? Theories abound. Popular explanations from the left include the legacy of white racism, labor-market discrimination, housing segregation, and poor educational opportunities. Those on the right tend to cite enforced multiculturalism, ethnic enclaves, and a self-perpetuating culture of poverty. One would need a whole book to sort out these competing explanations, but we can safely say that none of them, even if true, suggests easy solutions. Social scientists have not devised any set of programs that effectively spurs assimilation.

That assimilation has stalled even among third-generation Hispanics growing up today is especially sobering. In the early 20th century, the quality of schools varied greatly, high-school graduation was unusual, travel was relatively difficult, and universities and employers were free to discriminate based on ethnicity. Today all but the worst inner-city schools are well funded, high-school graduation is expected, traveling around the country to look for work is much easier, and affirmative-action programs give preferences to Hispanics. Despite these advantages over earlier immigrants, today's Hispanics have not closed the socioeconomic gap with white natives.

Though continuing research on the barriers to Hispanic assimilation will be valuable, the reality is that no intervention in the foreseeable future will change the very slow and perhaps nonexistent assimilation process into a fast and effective one.

The consequences of a large ethno-cultural group's lagging behind the majority in education and income are significant. In strictly economic terms, perpetually poor immigrants and their descendants will be a major strain on social spending and infrastructure. Health care, public education, welfare payments, the criminal justice system, and programs for affordable housing will all require more tax dollars. When pro-immigration conservatives declare that these government programs should be scaled back or eliminated entirely, I am sympathetic. But a large public sector is a reality that cannot be wished away--we will not be abolishing Medicaid or public schools anytime soon. Immigration policy needs to take that reality into account.

Even if economics were not a concern, the lack of Hispanic assimilation is likely to create ethnic tensions that threaten our cultural core. Human beings are a tribal species, and this makes ethnicity a natural fault line in any society. Intra-European ethnic divisions have been largely overcome through economic assimilation--Irish and Italian immigrants may have looked a bit different from natives, but by the third generation their socioeconomic profiles were similar. Hispanic Americans do not have that benefit.

Persistent ethnic disparities in socioeconomic status add to a sense of "otherness" felt by minorities outside the economic mainstream. Though it is encouraging that Hispanics often profess a belief in the American creed, an undercurrent of this "otherness" is still apparent. For example, a Pew Hispanic Center Survey in 2002 asked American-born Hispanics "which terms they would use first to describe themselves." Less than half (46 percent) said "American," while the majority said they primarily identified either with their ancestral country or as simply Hispanic or Latino. This feeling of otherness probably helps spur explicit ethnic organizing and lobbying. Already there is a long list of Hispanic interest groups--the National Council of La Raza, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute, the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Hispanic Journalists, and the Hispanic Lobbyists Association, to name just a handful. If Hispanics fail to assimilate, these groups will remain powerful, and they will continue to encourage Hispanics and other Americans to view our society in terms of inter-ethnic competition. It is difficult to see how a unifying national culture can be preserved and extended in that environment.

Two major changes to our immigration policy are needed to remedy the assimilation problem. First, we should drastically reduce illegal immigration. In the early part of this decade, the illegal-immigrant population saw a net increase of about 515,000 people per year, two-thirds of whom were from Mexico and Central America. The recession appears to have reduced illegal border crossings significantly, but the problem will surely return when our economy improves.

The second change concerns our legal immigration system. While it is important that spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens be allowed to immigrate, our present policy extends well beyond the nuclear family. U.S. citizens can sponsor their parents; their adult children, who may bring their own spouses and children with them; and their adult brothers and sisters, who may also bring their own spouses and children with them. These new green-card holders can then acquire citizenship and bring in their own extended families, perpetuating the cycle. This is "chain migration," and it causes the number of unskilled immigrants in the U.S. to increase swiftly.

It need not continue. Instead of bringing large extended families with limited skills into the U.S., we could specifically select for the qualities--education and work experience, for example--that help immigrants succeed. How would such a system work? We need only look north to see it in practice. Canada assigns points to potential immigrants for various desirable characteristics. For example, holding a graduate degree is worth five times as many points as is holding a high-school diploma. Australia has a similar system. In fact, Canada and Australia take in proportionally three to four times as many immigrants for economic reasons as the U.S. does, and fewer than half as many for family reunification.

Of course, precisely which factors to select for is itself a controversial question, and should be debated in the political arena. But that debate can begin only when we let go of our sepia-toned memories of immigration past. Who gets in really does matter, and we should not let the success of Europeans who came here a hundred years ago obscure that fact.

Jason Richwine is a National Research Initiative Fellow at AEI.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Mexico
KEYWORDS: amnesty; cheaplabor; freetraitors; herecometherinos

1 posted on 08/08/2009 8:38:50 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

“For Slovenian, press one: for Polish, press two, for Italian, press three.”


2 posted on 08/08/2009 8:41:33 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: 1rudeboy

Now they come for the money and soon the free healthcare.

One of the great benefits of multilingual education and multilingual ballots. vote for what freebie you want next year.


3 posted on 08/08/2009 8:42:54 AM PDT by Tarpon (The Joker's plan -- Slavery by debt so large it can never be repaid)
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To: 1rudeboy

If you get a chance to fly out of El Paso to Ontario or Phoenix, sit by the window and look down when the airplane banks out over Jauarez. The slum shacks you see down below is what Mexico wants to bring to us. The influx of Mexicans is not about improving anything in the US, it is about converting the US into Mexico. Therein lies the problem.


4 posted on 08/08/2009 8:43:11 AM PDT by Concho ( No Birth Certificate-No Census!)
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To: 1rudeboy

Hasn’t anyone ever heard of REQONQUISTA?

http://michellemalkin.com/2006/03/27/welcome-to-reconquista/

Welcome to Reconquista
By Michelle Malkin • March 27, 2006 09:42 AM ***scroll for updates…Bush warns against stoking anti-immigrant feelings. Wants a “civil debate.” Video here…Ok. Tell that to the divisive militants below…***

As Mickey Kaus points out, the reporters at the Los Angeles Times (and all other major media, for that matter) have downplayed the radical ethnic separatism that characterized the pro-illegal immigration rallies over the weekend. While the Times misleadingly asserted that the Los Angeles rally “featured more American flags than those from any other country,” its reporters conveniently ignored marchers with extremist signs and banners advocating America-undermining concepts of reconquista and Aztlan:


5 posted on 08/08/2009 8:44:22 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: 1rudeboy
Today's Immigrants Are Different from Waves Past. ...The large influx of Hispanic immigrants after 1965 represents a unique assimilation challenge

Hispanic immigrants (both legal and illegal) are here in such large numbers that most don't feel the need to assimilate. Plus there's a pervasive attitude among them that they're merely reclaiming land that's rightfully theirs. ...which of course further discourages assimilation.

6 posted on 08/08/2009 8:49:27 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: 1rudeboy
Four or five generations is probably about right. Where I come from there was a great immigration of French Canadians from the 1870s into the 1920s. There was virtually no assimilation until the generation born in the 1950s and 60s. Even that group speaks English with a French accent...but their kids don't. They don;t even speak French.

My theory is that the group was so large that it formed its own society and as Quebec is so close, there was a constant and continuing connection with the old country...sort of like with the Mexicans. The Irish, Greeks, Poles, Jews etc didn't have that. I can say, however, that for recent immigrants from just about anywhere avoiding assimilation and staying connected to the old country is a snap with satellite TV and the internet.

7 posted on 08/08/2009 8:51:25 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Mr. Mojo

You mean among “some” (or “most”) of them. Reconquista doesn’t really apply to Chicago, for example (although advocates on that side try to make it apply).


8 posted on 08/08/2009 8:52:16 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Even the later European immigrants moved this country left and led to where we are today.

The immigration from 1840 to 1920 doomed America and created the path to a future that the original American people would never have accepted and have always voted against.


9 posted on 08/08/2009 8:54:00 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney (guns)"instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people")
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To: ansel12

How so? This article appears to argue otherwise.


10 posted on 08/08/2009 8:56:40 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Kolokotronis
My theory is

And you can add to your theory the fact that the government of Mexico encourages illegal migration to the US as a major part of its economic policy. Those in the US are still considered Mexican, and are encouraged to maintain ties with Mexico, to behave as dual citizens.

Mexico wants it excess population to enter the US illegally, to get rid of it and avoid a revolt among those who found no real opportunity in Mexico.

11 posted on 08/08/2009 9:01:23 AM PDT by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy
So why do Hispanics, on average, not assimilate? Theories abound. Popular explanations from the left include the legacy of white racism, labor-market discrimination, housing segregation, and poor educational opportunities. Those on the right tend to cite enforced multiculturalism, ethnic enclaves, and a self-perpetuating culture of poverty. One would need a whole book to sort out these competing explanations, but we can safely say that none of them, even if true, suggests easy solutions. Social scientists have not devised any set of programs that effectively spurs assimilation.

BULLS**T!!!!!

The reason that they're not assimilating (and entering the societal mainstream and prospering) is because, thanks to "social scientists" and "do-gooders" on the left, they don't have to! When my great grandparents (on my father's side) and grandparents (on my mother's side) arrived in the USA, they HAD to enter society! They had to learn to speak English, and other than family and religious assistance, they had to make it on their own. There were no "social programs" for them. They were forced to help themselves. By making things "easier" for immigrants, like allowing them to fill out government assistance forms in their native languages, we ensure that these immigrants will be on the public dole for generations, and that those generations will not be able to speak, read, or write English, ensuring that they become, and their decedents remain, an underclass.

Mark

12 posted on 08/08/2009 9:04:32 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: 1rudeboy
My Grandparents came here from Sicily, BOTH sides.

My parents both went on to be successful American citizens. Their children went also went on to be successful. My Grandparents taught themselves English and encouraged their children to blend in because they were official U.S. natural born citizens. UNLIKE Obummer.

As a public school teacher who once taught in a inner city school, I would often hear some Mexican students refer to this country as really belonging to MEXICO. I would try to explain to them the history, but they would have none of it and continue their non-assimilation. My guess is their opposition is permanent.

This is sad for our country. It may in fact one day resemble Mexico.

13 posted on 08/08/2009 9:06:34 AM PDT by purpleporter
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To: MarkL
Essentially, all you've done is add one element to the author's list (government forms in different languages). By doing so, you've done nothing to indicate the rest of the list is "BULLS**T!!!!!"

Settle down.

14 posted on 08/08/2009 9:08:08 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

One major difference not noted in the study is past waves of legal immigrants had no access to a welfare trough. It was succeed or head back to where you came from.

A pretty good stimulus program, imo.

Invaders do not have that stick to worry about these days. All they see is the carrots.


15 posted on 08/08/2009 9:09:59 AM PDT by MurrietaMadman (Luke 23:31)
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To: purpleporter
I almost got into a fight with an "activist" (alcohol was involved on both sides) on a commuter train in Chicago when he tried to play the "reconquista" card (he was "lecturing" the captive audience).

I simply asked him what tribe he represented, Miami, Illini, Shawnee, Dakota Sioux, or some other. Shut him right up . . . and I had the Brooks Brothers crowd winking at me the rest of the way.

16 posted on 08/08/2009 9:13:28 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

The story is always written that way, start searching for where the vote for the left’s agenda was coming from and you will see that the later Europeans were liberals and from the beginning started reshaping America to their more European ideas.


17 posted on 08/08/2009 9:18:26 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney (guns)"instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people")
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To: ansel12

Roosevelt (New Deal) and Johnson (Great Society) were European immigrants? C’mon.


18 posted on 08/08/2009 9:21:07 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: MarkL
The reason that they're not assimilating (and entering the societal mainstream and prospering) is because, thanks to "social scientists" and "do-gooders" on the left, they don't have to! When my great grandparents (on my father's side) and grandparents (on my mother's side) arrived in the USA, they HAD to enter society! They had to learn to speak English, and other than family and religious assistance, they had to make it on their own. There were no "social programs" for them. They were forced to help themselves. By making things "easier" for immigrants, like allowing them to fill out government assistance forms in their native languages, we ensure that these immigrants will be on the public dole for generations, and that those generations will not be able to speak, read, or write English, ensuring that they become, and their decedents remain, an underclass. Mark

There is an identifiable group of a third of Hispanic voters that voted 56% for republicans in 2004 and voted 48% republican in 2008. That group seems to be assimilating.

19 posted on 08/08/2009 9:23:00 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney (guns)"instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people")
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To: 1rudeboy

WHere this article goes wrong is using the term “Hispanic” when it clearly means “Mexican”. THere is no such thing as “HIspanic”. The nations of Latin America are quite different ethnically, culturally and politically — the the only thing they have in common is the Spanish language and the legacy of anti-democratic Spanish colonialism.


20 posted on 08/08/2009 9:25:38 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Will88

Mexico does indeed encourage immigration. So do all sorts of other countries. That, Will, has always been true and for pretty much the same reasons, no work, excess population ad remittances. This Hispanic wave will change America, no doubt. I suppose, if nothing is going to be done to stop it and it appears the monied elites of both parties will see to that, we ought to be thank full that the Hispanics tend to work hard and are Christians. The alternative might well be more Somalis and other dog vomit Mohammedan types like Europe is embracing.


21 posted on 08/08/2009 9:36:10 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
So do all sorts of other countries. Nothing on the scale of Mexico and a few other Latino nations, and the transportation cost of sending the excess people to the US is much, much cheaper from Mexico.
22 posted on 08/08/2009 9:39:41 AM PDT by Will88
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To: 1rudeboy

Thanks for the comment. GREAT JOB! I wish I could have seen that.

I will remember your response for future conversations.


23 posted on 08/08/2009 9:47:06 AM PDT by purpleporter
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To: purpleporter

Be careful, the argument is geography-specific.


24 posted on 08/08/2009 9:48:15 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Kolokotronis

The illegals also have an illegitimacy rate of 50%. That does not correlate with genuine Christianity. And, an unusually high percentage of illegals are involved with extremely violent gangs. The high birth and high illegitimacy rate will increase the violence in America exponentially.


25 posted on 08/08/2009 9:50:47 AM PDT by MBB1984
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To: La Lydia; All

I see the push is on this morning to convince us that the ‘new immigrant’ is assimilating...right....that’s why everything has to be printed in Spanish!

QUESTION!!!

We are told by the open border lobby that hispanics work harder and are the BEST employees....so WHY is ‘hispanic’ unemployment higher than native unemployment???

And THEY want to let more of them in and make over 20 million of them legal to get more social welfare benefits! Yeah! That’ll help!

http://www.rgj.com/article/20090806/NEWS/90806058/1321/news

Nevada Hispanics hit hardest by unemployment

Nevada had the highest unemployment rate among Hispanics in the country in the second quarter of 2009 and it’s projected to be higher by 2010.
Advertisement

The Silver State Hispanic unemployment rate was 16.4 percent, with California next at 15.7 percent, according to a report released by the Washington, D.C.-based Economic Policy Institute.

Hispanics in Nevada were 1.7 times as likely to be unemployed as non-Hispanic whites, who had a 9.7 percent unemployment rate.

The overall Nevada unemployment rate was 11.3 percent in the quarter.

He said a large number of Hispanics who don’t graduate from high school or attend college is a primary factor.

“(The higher numbers for unemployment) has to do with lack of (high) educational graduation rates and a general lack of Latino leadership in most agencies,” Gutierrez said. “If that doesn’t change, it’s certainly going to get tougher.”

The main finding of the report, titled “Unequal Unemployment,” was that African-Americans and Hispanics had a higher percentage of unemployment than non-Hispanic whites.


26 posted on 08/08/2009 9:53:35 AM PDT by AuntB (Tired of Left/right coast globalist party power brokers? How 'bout THE HEARTLAND AMERICA PARTY??)
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To: 1rudeboy

Look at the left’s strongest voting blocks and when those blocks arrived here, it was after the 1840s.

Just as you can look at the vote since 1965 and see basically a battle in voting between the original core of America and people that you suspect will never vote as conservatively as that core, then start going backwards from 1965 and look at those immigrants from 1845 to 1920 and try to look at how those groups voted (and still vote)in elections, what issues that they pushed to the forefront, how they reshaped the national momentum and purpose, etc, in other words they replaced the gristly old American character with their European sensibilities and concepts.


27 posted on 08/08/2009 9:54:22 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney (guns)"instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people")
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To: 1rudeboy
Yes as I live in Nevada, I am fully versed in the tribes in the area...the Paiute, Pueblo, Shoshoni and the Ute.

Thanks!

28 posted on 08/08/2009 10:08:16 AM PDT by purpleporter
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To: AuntB

“The main finding of the report, titled “Unequal Unemployment,” was that African-Americans and Hispanics had a higher percentage of unemployment than non-Hispanic whites.”

Can someone PLEASE tell me what the heck is a NON-Hispanic white?? Why not also say non-black whites as well?

Are not whites, just called white? What gives???


29 posted on 08/08/2009 10:13:40 AM PDT by purpleporter
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To: 1rudeboy

It’s happening not just to the Hispanics but also to many Asian groups like the Hindus and Moslems as well. These groups are defined by their religious traits; language; entertainment; rituals; customs; and habits, all of which are at odds with the very foundations of western civilization built around Judeo-Christian traditions. As a result we now have defined enclaves of these ethnic groups in varoius geographical regions and cities of the United States.


30 posted on 08/08/2009 10:18:44 AM PDT by Steelfish
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To: 1rudeboy

This analysis is full of holes.

To start with, the European model of integration was first, a great wave from “the old country”, to which there was no going back. Then the wave ended. The first generation were “old country”, went for minimum wage jobs, spoke the old language and maintained the old culture.

Their children, the second generation, were the most problematic. Half in and half out, and not comfortable with either group. These were the ones that formed gangs and mafias.

But the third generation were assimilated. They spoke English as a primary tongue, and were fully integrated in society, understanding how things worked and playing by the rules. But with a twist. Those who lived in cultural “ghettos”, took far longer to assimilate, because they didn’t have to.

The Mexican immigrants fit this pattern to a ‘t’, if you take into account the obvious. First of all, there wasn’t a big wave of immigration, then nothing. It was and is a steady flow for decades. This conceals integration and the different generations.

We are right next door to Mexico, so some of these immigrants could maintain ties with “the old country” for a long time, before losing touch. But now you end up with legal citizens and illegals in the same family. There are no clear generations. All ages might be legal and integrated or illegal and like they were just up from Mexico.

One thing that remains the same is that if they live in a predominantly Mexican ethnic area in the US, it is harder, and takes longer, for them to integrate. But when they are on their own, they integrate very quickly.

Prosperity is also problematic. There are Mexican-Americans whose families have lived here for generations, but are still poor; at the same time as new arrivals who have made themselves prosperous and middle class.

And the final point: now that new illegal immigration is tapering off, it will be much easier for Mexicans living in the US to become Americans. Especially if they avoid other Mexicans.


31 posted on 08/08/2009 10:24:15 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: MarkL
BULLS**T!!!!!

You're absolutely correct.

To be honest, I've got a belly full of arrogant foreigners, legal and illegal. I know people that work in the service sector, retail etc, and many of these people are the most arrogant, demanding AHs you've ever seen..They come in dressed in the native clothes demanding discounts like they are owed something.

I kid you not, many of these Koreans and people from India come into these store, asking Korean or Indian discounts...No joke. "I buy two, you give me discount".

I've spoke with people that work in these establishments and they'll tell ya, many of these people are not only arrogant, but rude to the bone, and they'll go straight to the non-white help, and demand discounts, or just interrupt the sales people that are already helping others.

To be honest, I've ran into a lot of people from south of the border, that make it really obvious, they hate this country, and white people.

And many of these foreigners that go into business, they'll break every rule, regulation, law and business ethic ever written or established. The attitude is, "I do what I want" and the lying excuse when caught up in fraud or whatever is always, "I don't understand your ways".

32 posted on 08/08/2009 10:32:44 AM PDT by dragnet2
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To: dragnet2

You forgot to add that they smell funny.


33 posted on 08/08/2009 10:35:38 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
This is a problem of Mexicans and a few other countries, not Hispanics in general. Cubans, Venezuelans, Costa Ricans, Argentinians, and Chileans, assimilate quite easily, whether they are European or mixed. Mexican culture does not value education as much as other immigrant groups, and Mexicans do not value American culture, as they are the only group from whom the US has taken territory, and old resentments simmer under the surface. They don't want to Americanize, which they then take as becoming successful. They want to do ok, but remain Mexican, not give in to the gringo.

Puerto Ricans also have assimilation problems, but for different reasons. But for the most part, being Hispanic is not the problem, being from particular countries is.

34 posted on 08/08/2009 10:38:44 AM PDT by Defiant (Reaganland vs. Obamastan: Let's go our separate ways.)
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To: AuntB

Interesting...foreign invaders are foreign invaders and should be dealt with accordingly!!

Be Ever Vigilant!


35 posted on 08/08/2009 10:41:41 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: 1rudeboy

Europe started getting this in the early 80s. Basically, they despise liberalism.

They view the liberal culture with contempt - they have absolutely no respect for it.

They see how easy it is to game the system, how pathetic the liberal mindset is.


36 posted on 08/08/2009 10:50:45 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out (click my name)
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To: 1rudeboy

Good article.

1. Numbers. We have over 300 million people here already. Immigrants primarily go to areas that already have dense populations. We do not need and cannot support endless numbers of legal and illegal immigrants regardless of their educational levels or skills. Our social services net are already overloaded.

2. Standards. The relatively few immigrants we should let in should be highly educated and should have a high IQ. (Yes, give them an IQ test.) Top flight scientists and inventors readily come to mind. Endless numbers of tomato pickers whose children are disproportionately high school drop-outs we can do without.


37 posted on 08/08/2009 11:01:23 AM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: blackie; All

Where’s the national (bleeping) outrage? (Agent Rosas)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2311099/posts


38 posted on 08/08/2009 11:39:22 AM PDT by AuntB (Tired of Left/right coast globalist party power brokers? How 'bout THE HEARTLAND AMERICA PARTY??)
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To: AuntB

Some find it hard to keep their rage ramped up. There are so many things this government does and doesn’t do that causes rage, from open borders, to health/death care, cap and trade, stimulus bills, TARP bailouts, cash for clunkers, grabbing guns, Coercion, intimidation, lying and arrogant elitism!

I know, I left some things out, but you get the picture...

Be Ever Vigilant!


39 posted on 08/08/2009 12:31:50 PM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: 1rudeboy

They can be unique in being the first immigrants to be returned to sender too.

(Except the Asians. I like the Asians.)


40 posted on 08/08/2009 1:09:17 PM PDT by NaughtiusMaximus (Hey, Mr. Obama, please don't kill my gramma! NO on socialist healthcare!)
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To: MarkL

I would guess that four years in the military helps assimilation quite a bit!


41 posted on 08/08/2009 2:14:01 PM PDT by MSF BU (++)
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To: Defiant

What reasons would you give for the problems with Puerto Rican assimilation.


42 posted on 08/08/2009 2:15:21 PM PDT by MSF BU (++)
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To: kabumpo

That colonial attitude still pervades to this day. There are a lot of White Mexicans in Mexico. Your local illegal immigrants don’t look like the White Mexicans. That’s because the White Mexicans in Mexico pretty much hijacked Democracy and Republicanism in Mexico. The only threat to white imperialism in Mexico are the peasant Indians, which the imperialists in Mexico send across our borders, making us have to take in a group of people who know nothing of federalism, republicanism or individualism. If we had a president with balls (Or a good set of ovaries), the pres would stick it to Mexico some way or the other.


43 posted on 08/08/2009 3:18:56 PM PDT by TypeZoNegative (Pro life & Vegan because I respect all life, Republican because our enemies don't respect ours.)
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To: MSF BU

I don’t know, I just know they have not assimilated as well as other Hispanics. I would look into the fact that they mostly concentrated in the NY area and bought into racial politics. Had they been spread out nationally, and come in the 1980s instead of the 1950s, things might be different. They might be like the Vietnamese or Haitians.


44 posted on 08/08/2009 4:14:34 PM PDT by Defiant (Soetoroastrianism: Thus Spoke Barrythustra.)
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To: 1rudeboy

BTTT!


45 posted on 08/13/2009 9:45:13 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: Mr. Mojo

>>Plus there’s a pervasive attitude among them that they’re merely reclaiming land that’s rightfully theirs.

Which attitude is pure B.S.

See “The True History of the Southwest, 101”, which I got from a Travis McGee post, and which explains why it’s B.S. It’s towards the bottom of my FR profile page. Page up once or twice from the bottom and you’ll see the title.


46 posted on 08/14/2009 6:35:37 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
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