Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Shock: Inside the Healthcare Bill, Part 2
Economic Policy Journal ^ | 8/10/09 | Robert Wenzel

Posted on 08/10/2009 5:01:58 PM PDT by FromLori

I hope you didn't think that everything about the healthcare bill was covered in Shock: Inside the Healthcare Bill. If you did, you were wrong. That just covered the first 500 pages. There's another 500 pages. Peter Fleckstien (aka Fleckman) has also read the second 500 pages.

As I write this, there are some 159 comments at the original Shock: Inside the Healthcare Bill. Some comments are left by people truly in shock by what the Obama Administration is trying to pull off. Others charge that his interpretations of the bill are incorrect and hint that he is purposely being misleading. To those commenters I have this to say:

Peter Fleckstein having read the entire 1,000 plus page document makes note about what is written in the bill and his view of what it means. When he writes, for example,"I smell ACORN" the bill doesn't mention ACORN but community organizations. Fleckstein knows what community organization means and helps the reader out by writing what he believes. The bill, itself, is written in dense legalese. I challenge anyone to read fully even the first 100 pages. Thank the heavens that Fleckstein is there to read the bill and comment on it, without the legalese.

I consider Fleckstein a hero for having read the whole damn thing. Paul Revere may have rode on his butt all night to warn about the British, however, after a good days rest, he was probably back to his normal self. Fleckstein has ploughed through 1,000 pages of this obtuse bill which must have cost him hours and hours and hours on his butt, and drained his eyes, to warn about a Draconian, totalitarian healthcare bill. Paul Revere is a hero for what he did to warn about the British. Peter Fleckstein is a hero to warn about healthcare totalitarianism.

At no point does Fleckstein shirk from standing up behind every word he writes. There is literally a page, chapter and verse reference from the Bill for every comment he makes. On all my posts and Fleckstein's there is always a link to the bill itself so you can checkout any comment Fleckstein makes against the exact point in the bill that he references.

Further, as one commenter put it, many who are looking at Fleckstein's interpretations are missing the big picture. Obama is marketing this bill as a program to help those who don't have health insurance, but if that is the case, what are all the detailed regulations for the rest of us about? If Obama just wants to provide healthcare to those who don't have it, then why doesn't he do just that and control the healthcare standards, billing, tracking and prices he is willing to pay, for those people under his program. What the hell does this have to do with the rest of us? I think Obama's entire healthcare program is a politician's cheap trick, even when he is talking about the poor and the uninsured (See here), but everyone should be able to smell the totalitarian rat when Obama is putting on all kinds of controls on all healthcare.

Here's what Fleckstein found in the second 500 pages:

Pg 503 Lines 13-19 Govt will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic med records.

PG 506 Lines 19-21 The Center will recommend policies that would allow for public access of data.

PG 518 Lines 21-25 The Commission will have input from HC consumer reps – Can u say unions & ACORN?

PG 621 Lines 20-25 Govt will define what Quality means in HC. Since when does Govt know about quality?

PG 624 “Quality” measures shall b designed to profile u including race, age, gender, place of residence, etc

Pg 630 9-24/631 1-9 Those Multi-stake holder groups incl. Unions & groups like ACORN deciding HC quality.

PG 633 14-25/ 634 1-9 The Secretary may issue non-endorsed “Qual Measures” 4 Physician Svcs & Dialysis Svcs.

Pg 635 to 653 Physicians Payments Sunshine Provision – Govt wants to shine sunlight on Docs but not Govt.

PG 660-671 Doctors in Residency – Govt will tell U where ur residency will b, thus where u’ll live.

Pg 676-686 Govt will regulate hospitals in EVERY aspect of residency programs, incl. teaching hospitals.

PG 711 Lines 8-14 The Secretary has broad powers to deny HC providers/suppliers admittance into HC Exchng.

Pg 719-720 Sec 1637 ANY Doctor who orders durable med equip or home med svcs MUST b enrolled in Medicare.

Pg 735 lines 16-25 For law enforce. purposes the Secretary-HHS will give Atty General access to ALL data.

Pg 757-762 Fed govt will shift burden of payments 2 Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) 2 States. (Taxes)

Pg 768 Sec 1713 Govt – Nurse Home Visitation Svcs (Hello union paybacks)

Pg 769 3-5 Nurse Home Visit Svcs – “increasing birth intervals btwn pregnancies.” Govt Abortions any1?

Pg 770 SEC 1714 Fed Govt mandates eligibility 4 State Family Planning Svcs. Say abortion & State Sovereign.

Pg 789-797 Govt will set, mandate drug prices, controlling which drugs brought 2 mrkt. Bye innovation

PG 801 Sec 1751 The Govt will decide which Health care conditions will be paid. Say RATION!

Pg 810 SEC. 1759. Billing Agents, clearinghouses, etc req. 2 register. Govt takes over private payment sys.

PG 829-833 Govt will impose a fee on ALL private health ins. plans incl. self insured to pay for Trust Fund!

Pg 838-840 Govt will design & implem. Home Visitation Prog 4 families w young kids & families expect kids.

PG 844-845 OMG! This Home Visitation Prog. includes Govt coming in2 ur house & telling u how 2 parent

Pg 859 Govt will establish a Public Health Fund at a cost of $88,800,000,000. Yes thats Billion.

Pg 865 The Govt will MANDATE the establishment of a National Health Service Corps

PG 865 to 876 The NHS Corps is a program where Drs. perform mandatory HC for 2yrs for part loan repayment

PG 876-892 The govt takes over the education of our Med students and Drs

PG 898 The Govt will establish a Public Health Workforce Corps. 2 ensure supply of public health prof.

PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.

PG 900 The Public Health Workforce Corps includes veterinarians

PG 901 The Public Health Workforce Corps WILL incl commissioned Regular & Reserve Officers. HC Draft? WTF!

PG 910 The Govt will develop, build & run Public Health Training Centers.

PG 913-914 Govt starts a HC affirmative action program thru guise of diversity scholarships.

PG 915 SEC. 2251. Govt MANDATES Cultural & linguistic competency trng 4 HC professionals.

Pg 932 The Govt will estab Preventative & Wellness Trust fund- intial cost of $30,800,000,000-Billion

PG 936 Govt will develop “Healthy People & National Public Health Perform. Standards” Tell me what 2 eat?

PG 942 Lines 22-25 More Govt? Offices of Surg. Gen. -Public Health Svc, MinorityHealth, Women’s Health

PG 993 Govt will establish school based health clinics. Your kids wont have a chance.

PG 994 School Based Health Clinic will be integrated into the school environment. Say GOVT Brainwash!

PG 1001 The Govt will establish a National Medical Device Registry. Will u be tracked?

PG 1003 9-11 National Med Dev Reg ‘‘(iii) other postmarket device surveillance activities” U WILL b tracked.

Here's the Bill itself.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: healthcare; totalitarian
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last

1 posted on 08/10/2009 5:01:58 PM PDT by FromLori
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: FromLori

Thank you Mr. Fleckstein for digging thru Resident Obama’s tyrannical scam.


2 posted on 08/10/2009 5:06:32 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (No prisoners. No mercy. 2010 awaits.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

When you die, do they repossess the medical device? Save money, reuse it, it’s a rental.


3 posted on 08/10/2009 5:07:47 PM PDT by Tarpon (The Joker's plan -- Slavery by debt so large it can never be repaid)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

One of the charges the left has against the right is that we are spreading dis-information about the bill.

Is there any way we could boil these summaries down to the most critical points, eliminate some of the repetition, and quote straight from the bill?

I could really use this info for a video i’m doing.

i.e. page 10, line 6: “actual text”, followed by summary (translation)


4 posted on 08/10/2009 5:11:56 PM PDT by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori; Quoheleth

Ping.


5 posted on 08/10/2009 5:12:20 PM PDT by EmilyGeiger ( Government Healthcare will have the efficiency of the postal service and the compassion of IRS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

Usually, I just hand them a copy of the pdf (either on line or in person) and tell them they can look up the references. Every one of these items can be easily found in the pdf. I think more of US have read this monstrosity than congress.


6 posted on 08/10/2009 5:17:59 PM PDT by MizSterious (Impeach Barak "let them eat cake" Obama, while there's still something of our Republic to save.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: FromLori
profiles, statistics, etc. sounds like financial engineering for people.

be afraid. be very afraid. then be angry. then act.

7 posted on 08/10/2009 5:18:22 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (green is the new red.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori
Coming soon to Washington...Pitchforks!!!


8 posted on 08/10/2009 5:18:57 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (If the auto industry and banking were Obama's Austria and Czechoslovakia, healthcare is his Poland.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

Socialism, the new ‘N’ word (for Nincompoops).


9 posted on 08/10/2009 5:20:48 PM PDT by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

Worse than I thought, and I’m really cynical.


10 posted on 08/10/2009 5:23:18 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Rebellion is not brewing. Frog is brewing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

The plan or the people. It can’t be both.


11 posted on 08/10/2009 5:23:32 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

These guys have down all the heavy lifting already.

Pick out the things you think are critical, go to the bill (they’ve already done the hard work of pointing you to the right pages) and summarize it.

Seesh, you need it in pablum form?


12 posted on 08/10/2009 5:25:49 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries for the American farmer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: FromLori
this is absolutely sick. Sarah Palin was right: it's evil. It's totalitarian. It's beyond "audacious."

Whoever dares to float this bill is either insane, evil, or both.

How long before we can get the Dictator and his minions the hell out of the White House?

13 posted on 08/10/2009 5:27:10 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (green is the new red.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

The NHS Corps is a program where Drs. perform mandatory HC for 2yrs for part loan repayment
_______________________________________________________

Yep. Welcome to ‘City Year’.


14 posted on 08/10/2009 5:27:13 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Obama. Clear and Pres__ent Danger.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

Government this, government that.

Soviet style heath care here were come!

Won’t y’all feel so secure, warm and fuzzy as you are wheeled into the operating room knowing a well trained (according to democrat government standards anyways)graduate “doctor” will be performing his very first “solo” operation on you?

Of course, don’t expect near invisible scars afterwards, government cost control will mandate that stitching be no more than 2 per inch to save on the cost of suture materials, cheaper steri-strip tape will be adequate to close the gaps, saving the government about 1 million per year. (the cost study which resulted in the implementing of this cast saving measure cost 33 million, and took a year, but that is a different departments budget).

And make sure a family member brings you something to serve as crutches when you are released. Crutches supplied while in the hospital stay in the hospital. Go buy your own.


15 posted on 08/10/2009 5:27:56 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FastCoyote
Socialism, the new ‘N’ word (for Nincompoops).

it's way beyond socializm, FRiend.

16 posted on 08/10/2009 5:28:16 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (green is the new red.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: MizSterious

I think more of US have read this monstrosity than congress.
_________________________________________________

You bet your britches they haven’t read it. Too much WORK and not enough ‘liquid and country club lunches’.


17 posted on 08/10/2009 5:30:17 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Obama. Clear and Pres__ent Danger.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: MizSterious

>>> Usually, I just hand them a copy of the pdf (either on line or in person) and tell them they can look up the references.

I have a copy now, and i’m looking at the first point from the first summary....

Page 22 does not mandate audits.... let alone ALL self insuring employers.

It does talk about a study that gathers information (which may be an indirect “hint” that some companies may be audited to get the info. But the words “Audit” or “Mandate” does not occur.

At the end of page 22, and into 23 is where the results of the study will be used to “Make Recommendations” to ensure that incentives for self-insuring does not exist.

Help me out here... what am I missing?


18 posted on 08/10/2009 5:30:23 PM PDT by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

?? WHAT??

do you need someone to read it for you and act it out as well?


19 posted on 08/10/2009 5:30:49 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: FromLori
Robert Wenzel

I am not familiar with this man so I tried a google, up poped the Dummies who are ripping this man a new one. of course they do so simply because he is against them.

Does anyone have additional info or comments on him?

20 posted on 08/10/2009 5:31:17 PM PDT by Michael.SF. ("They're not Americans. They're liberals! "-- Ann Coulter, May 15, 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

Hey guys!

I’m 100% AGAINST this bill.....but!
Let’s maintain our credibility.
I see references to coverage for illegal immigrants in the summaries here.
Yet, in the bill itself I find:
SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED
4 ALIENS.
5 Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
7 not lawfully present in the United States.

So, unless somebody can explain the difference, I’m inclined to be skeptical of these summaries.


21 posted on 08/10/2009 5:32:55 PM PDT by G Larry ( Obamacare=Dying in Line!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns
"results of the study (audit) will be used to “Make Recommendations” to ensure that incentives for(all) self-insuring does not exist.

That help?

22 posted on 08/10/2009 5:36:43 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Nathan Zachary

Straight from the bill:

•HR 3200 IH Page 21
1 SEC. 113. INSURANCE RATING RULES.
2 (a) IN GENERAL.—The premium rate charged for an
3 insured qualified health benefits plan may not vary except
4 as follows:
5 (1) LIMITED AGE VARIATION PERMITTED.—By
6 age (within such age categories as the Commissioner
7 shall specify) so long as the ratio of the highest such
8 premium to the lowest such premium does not ex9
ceed the ratio of 2 to 1.
10 (2) BY AREA.—By premium rating area (as
11 permitted by State insurance regulators or, in the
12 case of Exchange-participating health benefits plans,
13 as specified by the Commissioner in consultation
14 with such regulators).
15 (3) BY FAMILY ENROLLMENT.—By family en16
rollment (such as variations within categories and
17 compositions of families) so long as the ratio of the
18 premium for family enrollment (or enrollments) to
19 the premium for individual enrollment is uniform, as
20 specified under State law and consistent with rules
21 of the Commissioner.
22 (b) STUDY AND REPORTS.—
23 (1) STUDY.—The Commissioner, in coordina24
tion with the Secretary of Health and Human Serv25
ices and the Secretary of Labor, shall conduct a
26 study of the large group insured and self-insured
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
22
•HR 3200 IH PAGE 22
1 employer health care markets. Such study shall ex2
amine the following:
3 (A) The types of employers by key charac4
teristics, including size, that purchase insured
5 products versus those that self-insure.
6 (B) The similarities and differences be7
tween typical insured and self-insured health
8 plans.
9 (C) The financial solvency and capital re10
serve levels of employers that self-insure by em11
ployer size.
12 (D) The risk of self-insured employers not
13 being able to pay obligations or otherwise be14
coming financially insolvent.
15 (E) The extent to which rating rules are
16 likely to cause adverse selection in the large
17 group market or to encourage small and mid
18 size employers to self-insure
19 (2) REPORTS.—Not later than 18 months after
20 the date of the enactment of this Act, the Commis21
sioner shall submit to Congress and the applicable
22 agencies a report on the study conducted under
23 paragraph (1). Such report shall include any rec24
ommendations the Commissioner deems appropriate
25 to ensure that the law does not provide incentives
PAGE 23
1 for small and mid-size employers to self-insure or
2 create adverse selection in the risk pools of large
3 group insurers and self-insured employers. Not later
4 than 18 months after the first day of Y1, the Com5
missioner shall submit to Congress and the applica6
ble agencies an updated report on such study, in7
cluding updates on such recommendations.

Please point out where it says “Mandatory Audit of all self insuring businesses”

Thanks


23 posted on 08/10/2009 5:40:21 PM PDT by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns
Is there any way we could boil these summaries down to the most critical points, eliminate some of the repetition, and quote straight from the bill?

Download the bill and look up the relevant pages.

24 posted on 08/10/2009 5:40:32 PM PDT by fso301
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Free Vulcan

ObamaCare and me
By Zane F Pollard, MD
I have been sitting quietly on the sidelines watching all of this national debate on healthcare. It is time for me to bring some clarity to the table by explaining many of the problems from the perspective of a doctor.

First off, the government has involved very few of us physicians in the healthcare debate. While the American Medical Association has come out in favor of the plan, it is vital to remember that the AMA only represents 17% of the American physician workforce.

I have taken care of Medicaid patients for 35 years while representing the only pediatric ophthalmology group left in Atlanta, Georgia that accepts Medicaid. For example, in the past 6 months I have cared for three young children on Medicaid who had corneal ulcers. This is a potentially blinding situation because if the cornea perforates from the infection, almost surely blindness will occur. In all three cases the antibiotic needed for the eradication of the infection was not on the approved Medicaid list.

Each time I was told to fax Medicaid for the approval forms, which I did. Within 48 hours the form came back to me which was sent in immediately via fax, and I was told that I would have my answer in 10 days. Of course by then each child would have been blind in the eye.

Each time the request came back denied. All three times I personally provided the antibiotic for each patient which was not on the Medicaid approved list. Get the point — rationing of care.

Over the past 35 years I have cared for over 1000 children born with congenital cataracts. In older children and in adults the vision is rehabilitated with an intraocular lens. In newborns we use contact lenses which are very expensive. It takes Medicaid over one year to approve a contact lens post cataract surgery. By that time a successful anatomical operation is wasted as the child will be close to blind from a lack of focusing for so long a period of time.

Again, extreme rationing. Solution: I have a foundation here in Atlanta supported 100% by private funds which supplies all of these contact lenses for my Medicaid and illegal immigrants children for free. Again, waiting for the government would be disastrous.

Last week I had a lady bring her child to me. They are Americans but live in Sweden, as the father has a job with a big corporation. The child had the onset of double vision 3 months ago and has been unable to function normally because of this. They are people of means but are waiting 8 months to see the ophthalmologist in Sweden. Then if the child needed surgery they would be put on a 6 month waiting list. She called me and I saw her that day. It turned out that the child had accommodative esotropia (crossing of the eyes treated with glasses that correct for farsightedness) and responded to glasses within 4 days, so no surgery was needed. Again, rationing of care.

Last month I operated on a 70 year old lady with double vision present for 3 years. She responded quite nicely to her surgery and now is symptom free. I also operated on a 69 year old judge with vertical double vision. His surgery went very well and now he is happy as a lark. I have been told — but of course there is no healthcare bill that has been passed yet — that these 2 people because of their age would have been denied surgery and just told to wear a patch over one eye to alleviate the symptoms of double vision. Obviously cheaper than surgery.

I spent two year in the US Navy during the Viet Nam war and was well treated by the military. There was tremendous rationing of care and we were told specifically what things the military personnel and their dependents could have and which things they could not have. While I was in Viet Nam, my wife Nancy got sick and got essentially no care at the Naval Hospital in Oakland, California. She went home and went to her family’s private internist in Beverly Hills. While it was expensive, she received an immediate work up. Again rationing of care.

For those of you who are over 65, this bill in its present form might be lethal for you. People in England over 59 cannot receive stents for their coronary arteries. The government wants to mimic the British plan. For those of you younger, it will still mean restriction of the care that you and your children receive.

While 99% of physicians went into medicine because of the love of medicine and the challenge of helping our fellow man, economics are still important. My rent goes up 2% each year and the salaries of my employees go up 2% each year. Twenty years ago, ophthalmologists were paid $1800 for a cataract surgery and today $500. This is a 73% decrease in our fees. I do not know of many jobs in America that have seen this sort of lowering of fees.

But there is more to the story than just the lower fees. When I came to Atlanta, there was a well known ophthalmologist that charged $2500 for a cataract surgery as he felt the was the best. He had a terrific reputation and in fact I had my mother’s bilateral cataracts operated on by him with a wonderful result. She is now 94 and has 20/20 vision in both eyes. People would pay his $2500 fee.

However, then the government came in and said that any doctor that does Medicare work cannot accept more than the going rate ( now $500) or he or she would be severely fined. This put an end to his charging $2500. The government said it was illegal to accept more than the government-allowed rate. What I am driving at is that those of you well off will not be able to go to the head of the line under this new healthcare plan, just because you have money, as no physician will be willing to go against the law to treat you.

I am a pediatric ophthalmologist and trained for 10 years post-college to become a pediatric ophthalmologist (add two years of my service in the Navy and that comes to 12 years).A neurosurgeon spends 14 years post -college, and if he or she has to do the military that would be 16 years. I am not entitled to make what a neurosurgeon makes, but the new plan calls for all physicians to make the same amount of payment. I assure you that medical students will not go into neurosurgery and we will have a tremendous shortage of neurosurgeons. Already, the top neurosurgeon at my hospital who is in good health and only 52 years old has just quit because he can’t stand working with the government anymore. Forty-nine percent of children under the age of 16 in the state of Georgia are on Medicaid, so he felt he just could not stand working with the bureaucracy anymore.

We are being lied to about the uninsured. They are getting care. I operate at least 2 illegal immigrants each month who pay me nothing, and the children’s hospital at which I operate charges them nothing also.This is true not only on Atlanta, but of every community in America.

The bottom line is that I urge all of you to contact your congresswomen and congressmen and senators to defeat this bill. I promise you that you will not like rationing of your own health.

Furthermore, how can you trust a physician that works under these conditions knowing that he is controlled by the state. I certainly could not trust any doctor that would work under these draconian conditions.

One last thing: with this new healthcare plan there will be a tremendous shortage of physicians. It has been estimated that approximately 5% of the current physician work force will quit under this new system. Also it is estimated that another 5% shortage will occur because of the decreased number of men and women wanting to go into medicine. At the present time the US government has mandated gender equity in admissions to medical schools .That means that for the past 15 years that somewhere between 49 and 51% of each entering class are females. This is true of private schools also, because all private schools receive federal funding.

The average career of a woman in medicine now is only 8-10 years and the average work week for a female in medicine is only 3-4 days. I have now trained 35 fellows in pediatric ophthalmology. Hands down the best was a female that I trained 4 years ago — she was head and heels above all others I have trained. She now practices only 3 days a week.


25 posted on 08/10/2009 5:43:12 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

What I’d like the most is an analysis where the bill text is interleaved with commentary.

ABC national news tonight took a “close look” at the end-of-life counseling part of the bill. They indicated that the counseling is harmless, voluntary, etc.

As I see it, the counseling is not what we need to worry about. The rules themselves, which counselors must adhere to, is where the problems will lie. Perhaps the legislation now says that specific rules will be concocted as time goes on.

I’m skeptical that interpretations mentioned or reference on this board are biased toward opposing the legislation. That’s why bill text interleaved with commentary will help me.

In case you’re wondering, though my knowledge of the bill is limited, I hate it and also that conceited, dishonest, socialist Obama.

Nevertheless I seek the truth.


26 posted on 08/10/2009 5:45:56 PM PDT by frposty (I'm a simpleton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

I am strongly against government control of most things. This Health Care/Insurance Reform is just a power grab. I have read plenty in the House legislation that makes me want to hurl. Having said that, I think everyone should open the bill in one window, and the article in another. Then move to the referenced pages in the article. One by one. I would not accept the writer’s interpretations for yourself. I just began doing this with the first article, “Shock: Inside the Health Care Bill”. I have found a number of items listed that are wrongly interpreted or just plain wrong.

If I get the opportunity to attend a town hall meeting in my district (not likely in Western New York), I will have a list of references that I have confirmed by reading the text myself. I don’t want to be embarrassed by citing BS.

Here’s one example from the first article:

“Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!”

Here is the text from the bill:

“(2) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—
(A) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—The cost-sharing incurred under the essential benefits package with respect to an individual (or family) for a year does not exceed the applicable level specified in subparagraph (B).
(B) APPLICABLE LEVEL.—The applicable level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year by the annual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index (United States city average) applicable to such year.
(C) USE OF COPAYMENTS.—In establishing cost-sharing levels for basic, enhanced, and premium plans under this subsection, the Secretary shall, to the maximum extent possible, use only copayments and not coinsurance.”

It sounds to me like maximum co-pay amounts are being defined. This is almost as bad as health care rationing in my view, because it represents another tax. We’ll be taxed at the payroll level and again when we collect services. Unless we meet the low-end income criteria. Still, it doesn’t seem to be what is referenced in the article.

Fwiw.


27 posted on 08/10/2009 5:46:39 PM PDT by Tawiskaro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

If you go to the link he has the full bill and you can take whatever parts you need right from the source.

Also when I posted the first article someone here did an excellent job cleaning it up do a search with the title shock inside the healthcare bill you should be able to find it.


28 posted on 08/10/2009 5:49:32 PM PDT by FromLori (FromLori)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

Here was the original post hope it helps

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2297439/posts


29 posted on 08/10/2009 5:51:47 PM PDT by FromLori (FromLori)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Nathan Zachary
>>> do you need someone to read it for you and act it out as well?

My reading of page 22 (using context from 21 and 23) is that this page(s) of the bill authorizes nothing more than a study for the purposes of recommending changes... (For Closing loopholes and discouraging self insurers)

Page 21, Line 25:shall conduct a study of the large group insured and self-insured employer health care markets. Such study shall examine the following:

Page 22, line 19: (2) REPORTS.—Not later than 18 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Commissioner shall submit to Congress and the applicable gencies a report on the study conducted under paragraph (1). Such report shall include any recommendations the Commissioner deems appropriate to ensure that the law does not provide incentives for small and mid-size employers to self-insure or create adverse selection in the risk pools of large group insurers and self-insured employers. Not later than 18 months after the first day of Y1, the Commissioner shall submit to Congress and the applicable agencies an updated report on such study, including updates on such recommendations.
30 posted on 08/10/2009 5:53:32 PM PDT by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns
Looking futher, seems I'm missing something too. Seems this list is completely bogus, or is out of sync with the origional HC bill.

I think there is a better summary about.

31 posted on 08/10/2009 5:57:21 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Nathan Zachary

>>> I think there is a better summary about.

lets hope so... all it takes is one disprovable summary, and the entire thing is trash.

I didn’t even get past #1.


32 posted on 08/10/2009 6:00:06 PM PDT by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

This was recently posted but deserves repeating:

ObamaCare and me
By Zane F Pollard, MD
I have been sitting quietly on the sidelines watching all of this national debate on healthcare. It is time for me to bring some clarity to the table by explaining many of the problems from the perspective of a doctor.

First off, the government has involved very few of us physicians in the healthcare debate. While the American Medical Association has come out in favor of the plan, it is vital to remember that the AMA only represents 17% of the American physician workforce.

I have taken care of Medicaid patients for 35 years while representing the only pediatric ophthalmology group left in Atlanta, Georgia that accepts Medicaid. For example, in the past 6 months I have cared for three young children on Medicaid who had corneal ulcers. This is a potentially blinding situation because if the cornea perforates from the infection, almost surely blindness will occur. In all three cases the antibiotic needed for the eradication of the infection was not on the approved Medicaid list.

Each time I was told to fax Medicaid for the approval forms, which I did. Within 48 hours the form came back to me which was sent in immediately via fax, and I was told that I would have my answer in 10 days. Of course by then each child would have been blind in the eye.

Each time the request came back denied. All three times I personally provided the antibiotic for each patient which was not on the Medicaid approved list. Get the point — rationing of care.

Over the past 35 years I have cared for over 1000 children born with congenital cataracts. In older children and in adults the vision is rehabilitated with an intraocular lens. In newborns we use contact lenses which are very expensive. It takes Medicaid over one year to approve a contact lens post cataract surgery. By that time a successful anatomical operation is wasted as the child will be close to blind from a lack of focusing for so long a period of time.

Again, extreme rationing. Solution: I have a foundation here in Atlanta supported 100% by private funds which supplies all of these contact lenses for my Medicaid and illegal immigrants children for free. Again, waiting for the government would be disastrous.

Last week I had a lady bring her child to me. They are Americans but live in Sweden, as the father has a job with a big corporation. The child had the onset of double vision 3 months ago and has been unable to function normally because of this. They are people of means but are waiting 8 months to see the ophthalmologist in Sweden. Then if the child needed surgery they would be put on a 6 month waiting list. She called me and I saw her that day. It turned out that the child had accommodative esotropia (crossing of the eyes treated with glasses that correct for farsightedness) and responded to glasses within 4 days, so no surgery was needed. Again, rationing of care.

Last month I operated on a 70 year old lady with double vision present for 3 years. She responded quite nicely to her surgery and now is symptom free. I also operated on a 69 year old judge with vertical double vision. His surgery went very well and now he is happy as a lark. I have been told — but of course there is no healthcare bill that has been passed yet — that these 2 people because of their age would have been denied surgery and just told to wear a patch over one eye to alleviate the symptoms of double vision. Obviously cheaper than surgery.

I spent two year in the US Navy during the Viet Nam war and was well treated by the military. There was tremendous rationing of care and we were told specifically what things the military personnel and their dependents could have and which things they could not have. While I was in Viet Nam, my wife Nancy got sick and got essentially no care at the Naval Hospital in Oakland, California. She went home and went to her family’s private internist in Beverly Hills. While it was expensive, she received an immediate work up. Again rationing of care.

For those of you who are over 65, this bill in its present form might be lethal for you. People in England over 59 cannot receive stents for their coronary arteries. The government wants to mimic the British plan. For those of you younger, it will still mean restriction of the care that you and your children receive.

While 99% of physicians went into medicine because of the love of medicine and the challenge of helping our fellow man, economics are still important. My rent goes up 2% each year and the salaries of my employees go up 2% each year. Twenty years ago, ophthalmologists were paid $1800 for a cataract surgery and today $500. This is a 73% decrease in our fees. I do not know of many jobs in America that have seen this sort of lowering of fees.

But there is more to the story than just the lower fees. When I came to Atlanta, there was a well known ophthalmologist that charged $2500 for a cataract surgery as he felt the was the best. He had a terrific reputation and in fact I had my mother’s bilateral cataracts operated on by him with a wonderful result. She is now 94 and has 20/20 vision in both eyes. People would pay his $2500 fee.

However, then the government came in and said that any doctor that does Medicare work cannot accept more than the going rate ( now $500) or he or she would be severely fined. This put an end to his charging $2500. The government said it was illegal to accept more than the government-allowed rate. What I am driving at is that those of you well off will not be able to go to the head of the line under this new healthcare plan, just because you have money, as no physician will be willing to go against the law to treat you.

I am a pediatric ophthalmologist and trained for 10 years post-college to become a pediatric ophthalmologist (add two years of my service in the Navy and that comes to 12 years).A neurosurgeon spends 14 years post -college, and if he or she has to do the military that would be 16 years. I am not entitled to make what a neurosurgeon makes, but the new plan calls for all physicians to make the same amount of payment. I assure you that medical students will not go into neurosurgery and we will have a tremendous shortage of neurosurgeons. Already, the top neurosurgeon at my hospital who is in good health and only 52 years old has just quit because he can’t stand working with the government anymore. Forty-nine percent of children under the age of 16 in the state of Georgia are on Medicaid, so he felt he just could not stand working with the bureaucracy anymore.

We are being lied to about the uninsured. They are getting care. I operate at least 2 illegal immigrants each month who pay me nothing, and the children’s hospital at which I operate charges them nothing also.This is true not only on Atlanta, but of every community in America.

The bottom line is that I urge all of you to contact your congresswomen and congressmen and senators to defeat this bill. I promise you that you will not like rationing of your own health.

Furthermore, how can you trust a physician that works under these conditions knowing that he is controlled by the state. I certainly could not trust any doctor that would work under these draconian conditions.

One last thing: with this new healthcare plan there will be a tremendous shortage of physicians. It has been estimated that approximately 5% of the current physician work force will quit under this new system. Also it is estimated that another 5% shortage will occur because of the decreased number of men and women wanting to go into medicine. At the present time the US government has mandated gender equity in admissions to medical schools .That means that for the past 15 years that somewhere between 49 and 51% of each entering class are females. This is true of private schools also, because all private schools receive federal funding.

The average career of a woman in medicine now is only 8-10 years and the average work week for a female in medicine is only 3-4 days. I have now trained 35 fellows in pediatric ophthalmology. Hands down the best was a female that I trained 4 years ago — she was head and heels above all others I have trained. She now practices only 3 days a week.

3 posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 5:41:31 PM by ExTexasRedhead

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2312963/posts


33 posted on 08/10/2009 6:04:19 PM PDT by Bhoy (DRILL NOW)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

I’m trying to find ONE thing that jives with this summary, i can’t.

I’m thinking that this may be another RAT trick... like the Kenyan BC


34 posted on 08/10/2009 6:05:49 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns
I wonder, is it possible that the pdf doc at;

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf

has been changed?

Anyone download this a few days ago that could check?

35 posted on 08/10/2009 6:08:45 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

What if the money that had been blown (or will be blown, about 95% of it to go) on the Porkulus had been put towards a health care subsidy program for the involuntarily uninsured American instead, leaving the rest of the system as is. I don’t mean to actually endorse such a thing, but there are such things as levels of folly.


36 posted on 08/10/2009 6:16:33 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Democrat Party: a criminal organization masquerading as a political party)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori
PG 829-833 Govt will impose a fee on ALL private health ins. plans incl. self insured to pay for Trust Fund!

This will force many unto the single payer plan. If you do not go, then you will help pay for the health plan of others.

37 posted on 08/10/2009 6:17:45 PM PDT by rawhide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FromLori
>>> If you go to the link he has the full bill and you can take whatever parts you need right from the source.

Well, I'm just getting started, and the score is 2 to zip against the summary.

Here is the summary of page 503: Lines 13-19 Govt will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic med records.

Now... straight from the bill:

(3) POWERS.—(A) OBTAINING OFFICIAL DATA.—The Center may secure directly from any department or agency of the United States information necessary to enable it to carry out this section. Upon request of the Center, the head of that department or agency shall furnish that information to the Center on an agreed upon schedule.
19 ‘‘(B) DATA COLLECTION.—In order to
20 carry out its functions, the Center shall—
21 ‘‘(i) utilize existing information, both
22 published and unpublished, where possible,
23 collected and assessed either by its own
24 staff or under other arrangements made in
25 accordance with this section,

First of all, "Any Department or agency of the United States" is NOT your personal med records. Second, "unpublished" does not necessarily mean private, especially when it is followed up with "where possible" as an implied limit.
38 posted on 08/10/2009 6:19:00 PM PDT by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: FromLori

Not to mention the bank errors that the gov’t will cause in people’s bank account by electronic withdrawals for healthcare on Pages 58-59. Imagine the possible overdraft charges fattening up the banks.


39 posted on 08/10/2009 6:19:19 PM PDT by Kackikat (There is no such thing as a free lunch, because someone paid, somewhere.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Nathan Zachary

One liberal commentator has charged that conservative criticism is incorrect because there are (allegedly) something like five different versions bouncing around out there. (So of course, we liberals must force the conservative commentator to talk about only the least liberal one, while we liberals push for passage of the most liberal one!)


40 posted on 08/10/2009 6:20:15 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Democrat Party: a criminal organization masquerading as a political party)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: FromLori; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

41 posted on 08/10/2009 6:21:05 PM PDT by narses (http://www.theobamadisaster.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

download the bill at:

http://www.jeffhead.com/DemHealthCare.htm


42 posted on 08/10/2009 6:22:05 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat

In a less insane system, there would be a means of requiring personal authorization before this happens, or at least some kind of formal proceedings akin to tax proceedings. (Though sometimes the IRS can vacuum out bank accounts in response to a tax dispute especially in case of a snafu).


43 posted on 08/10/2009 6:22:17 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Democrat Party: a criminal organization masquerading as a political party)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Nathan Zachary

Doesn’t look any different than the one I had already...
Limiting scope to the two summary items i’ve already addressed.... Says the same thing... no difference.


44 posted on 08/10/2009 6:34:38 PM PDT by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

It seems I just finding this out.

The link to the bill this guy uses appears to have been changes at that .Gov link.

I’m trying to download the archives one at Jeff heads site, but having trouble. Seems different though.


45 posted on 08/10/2009 6:36:09 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

Or maybe not.

This needs looking into further. Something is very wrong here.


46 posted on 08/10/2009 6:39:59 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

look for another summary. This one is prob. bogus.

I Know Jeff heads copy is good, it’s been there for a while.


47 posted on 08/10/2009 6:41:57 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

Jeff heads summary that is. It’s differnt than this one, and jives with the bill. Just scroll down past the links for it.

http://www.jeffhead.com/DemHealthCare.htm


48 posted on 08/10/2009 6:44:03 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Nathan Zachary

Would of course put it past Obummer and friends to sow confusion by disseminating various versions without any version control. Why can’t Congress control its documentation as well as Microsoft or Red Hat does its?


49 posted on 08/10/2009 6:46:25 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Democrat Party: a criminal organization masquerading as a political party)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

Having read over the first 500 pages of the bill, my biggest impressions are:

1) What a HUGE bureaucracy would be needed to enforce the details of this bill - mandating huge numbers of government employees who would all be members of government employees unions whose money (paid by taxpayers) would go to keep Dems in office forever.

2) Surely Doctors would oppose this monstrosity which will dictate tons of paperwork, requiring additional staff, in order to be sure they comply

3) There is zero justification for the government to be involved in these minute details of healthcare, including especially, the end of life counseling sessions and the other details about pallliative / end of life care. NONE, NADA. We are NOT Britain or Canada or the USSR - not yet.

4) I could not find where or how this bill (specifically House bill 3200) does any of what Zero is claiming it will do - provide healthcare for all those uninsureds and prevent denial of insurance for preexisting conditions or reduce the cost of healthcare.

5) I could find the parts that will penalize (with the left = it is always right and good to PENALIZE normally law abiding people)ordinary Americans who would CHOOSE to not participate in this progam or any health insurance program and will PENALIZE businesses who do not offer healthcare. Just those provisions ALONE should cause freedom loving people to recoil in horror!


50 posted on 08/10/2009 6:46:39 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt (Obama's Deathcare ---- many will suffer and/or die unnecessarily.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson