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Empty Chamber Saves TPD Officer's Life (Officers were in a shootout with a man wanted for murder)
Toledo on the Move ^ | Monday, August 10, 2009 | David Custer

Posted on 08/10/2009 10:26:43 PM PDT by nickcarraway

An empty chamber in a loaded gun saved the life of a Toledo police officer.

This, after a man wanted for murder took police on a high-speed chase and an intense shoot-out.

"Officer Board came very close to losing his life last night, that's fair to say," said Toledo Police Chief Mike Navarre.

Navarre says Sunday night's shoot-out at Dorr and Westwood could have been a lot worse.

Four officers walked away from the incident unharmed: Eric Board, Diana Trevino, Charles Leroux and Lieutenant Mark Collins. The suspect, 21-year-old Devon Tyrone Woods, was not so lucky.

A three mile high-speed pursuit initially triggered from a disturbance call at Southgate Circle ended when Woods' vehicle hit one car, causing it to hit another.

When Officer Eric Board approached the suspect vehicle, police say, Board's life almost ended at point blank.

"(The suspect) pointed it at the officer, pulled the trigger, the gun did not fire, and the reason it did not fire because apparently he didn't have a round in that chamber," said Navarre.

Officer Board hit the ground and the three other officers began firing.

Police say Woods fired two rounds and took off running.

The shootout ensued and Woods fired off one more round while falling to the ground.

In all, 34 rounds were fired from police -- and three are believed to come from Woods.

Woods was shot five times, he died from his wounds.

"Officers are trained to fire and continue firing until the job is complete," said Navarre.

In studying the suspect, police discovered that Woods had a dangerous secret.

"We also learned last night that he has a warrant for his arrest for the crime of murder," said Navarre.

Not only was Woods wanted for murder, but police say the 21-year-old's rap sheet was extensive.

They say he had committed several armed robberies in the Detroit area and NBC24 discovered that he had just been let out of prison in February of this year after serving two years on a felony weapons conviction out of Wayne County.

You can view Woods' criminal past for yourself by clicking here.

All four officers involved the shootout are on paid administrative leave.

Navarre says this will help them cope with the trauma and emotional stress of being involved in such a violent incident.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; US: Alabama; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; dirtyharry; firearm; gun
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 08/10/2009 10:26:44 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

...those darned Amish!


2 posted on 08/10/2009 10:29:34 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: nickcarraway

I like this Toledo police chief Navarre. “until the job is completed” Has a nice finality sound to me.

One dead piece of shit and one gun off the street. Wonder if he had a job with ACORN or the SEIU?


3 posted on 08/10/2009 10:33:23 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: nickcarraway
Not only was Woods wanted for murder, but police say the 21-year-old's rap sheet was extensive.

busy...busy...busy...so busy he forgot to put one in the pipe. Lucky for the cop.

A toast to the thin blue line.

4 posted on 08/10/2009 10:34:13 PM PDT by DeFault User
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To: nickcarraway

And that, boys and girls, is why you don’t carry a semiauto pistol without one in the chamber.

In this case, it was the bad guy with an empty chamber, and he got killed. If you carry with an empty chamber, next time it could be you getting shot by the bad guys.


5 posted on 08/10/2009 10:38:22 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Empty chamber = unloaded gun, unloaded gun = paperweight.


6 posted on 08/10/2009 10:44:16 PM PDT by umgud (Look to gov't to solve your everday problems and they'll control your everday life.)
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To: Blue Jays
Can someone remind me again why Devon Tyrone Woods was not chained inside a prison cell?


7 posted on 08/10/2009 11:00:25 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

Woods was probably a Managing Director of both ACORN and SEIU witha rap sheet like that! AG Holder is most likely pressing charges against the “EVIL POLICE” for Not Giving Woods Extra Time to Chamber Another Bullet before Firing!
The Police deserve a MEDAL of HONOR for this Act of Heroism, but Obama’s Justice will do everything to destroy them!


8 posted on 08/10/2009 11:40:12 PM PDT by True Republican Patriot (May GOD Continue to BLESS Our Great President George W. Bush!!)
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To: umgud

Exactly, but there are apparently a number of fools on FR that believe that semiautos should always be carried with an empty chamber and that ‘you will always have enough time to chamber a round while drawing.’


9 posted on 08/10/2009 11:54:21 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: nickcarraway
When Officer Eric Board approached the suspect vehicle, police say, Board's life almost ended at point blank.

"(The suspect) pointed it at the officer, pulled the trigger, the gun did not fire, and the reason it did not fire because apparently he didn't have a round in that chamber," said Navarre.

Police say Woods fired two rounds and took off running.

The shootout ensued and Woods fired off one more round while falling to the ground.

In all, 34 rounds were fired from police -- and three are believed to come from Woods.

Woods was shot five times, he died from his wounds.

"Officers are trained to fire and continue firing until the job is complete," said Navarre.

"We also learned last night that he has a warrant for his arrest for the crime of murder," said Navarre.

Not only was Woods wanted for murder, but police say the 21-year-old's rap sheet was extensive.

They say he had committed several armed robberies in the Detroit area and NBC24 discovered that he had just been let out of prison in February of this year after serving two years on a felony weapons conviction out of Wayne County.

Sounds like a case of suicide by COP.

He knew if he was taken alive he was going to jail for the rest of his life and he just wasn’t willing to go, he would rather be dead.

10 posted on 08/11/2009 12:43:20 AM PDT by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: Spktyr; umgud
Exactly, but there are apparently a number of fools on FR that believe that semiautos should always be carried with an empty chamber and that ‘you will always have enough time to chamber a round while drawing.

As many gun porn and self defense threads as I have been on over the years, I can't say I've come across anyone advocating carrying a semiauto with an empty chamber but will keep an eye out for it in the future.

That having been said, I don't see where the article says he had a semi auto. He may have been carrying a revolver and placed an empty chamber in the wrong position. He pulled the trigger, the gun didn't go off and it took him a couple seconds to realize his mistake.

The article did say he was eventually able to fire a few shots.

11 posted on 08/11/2009 1:37:00 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Spktyr
Exactly, but there are apparently a number of fools on FR that believe that semiautos should always be carried with an empty chamber and that ‘you will always have enough time to chamber a round while drawing.’

If someone is uncomfortable with carrying one in the pipe then they probably shouldn't even bother carrying a pistol. I carry the way I was trained in the military and in law enforcement...round chambered and safety off, if there is an external safety.

12 posted on 08/11/2009 1:55:47 AM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: fso301

If it was a revolver he would have simply pulled the trigger again (which he did, apparently) to get to the next loaded cylinder (which he apparently didn’t).


13 posted on 08/11/2009 2:01:03 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: AlaskaErik

“If someone is uncomfortable with carrying one in the pipe then they probably shouldn’t even bother carrying a pistol”

Thats rather presumptuous of you. Some people prefer it that way and they as much or more knowledgeable than you appear to be.


14 posted on 08/11/2009 2:02:01 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

Sounds like an acorn man to me, hopefully they can get a few more of them.


15 posted on 08/11/2009 2:03:58 AM PDT by heshtesh
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To: driftdiver
Thats rather presumptuous of you. Some people prefer it that way and they as much or more knowledgeable than you appear to be.

If it's a preference to carry with an empty chamber then it's a preference made without being knowledgeable on the subject. The only reason to carry a pistol is for protection and it isn't going to protect you if it doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger. Racking a round at the last second might make for more drama in a movie, but no professional is going to do that in real life.

16 posted on 08/11/2009 2:38:31 AM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: AlaskaErik

“If it’s a preference to carry with an empty chamber then it’s a preference made without being knowledgeable on the subject.”

BS

“Racking a round at the last second might make for more drama in a movie, but no professional is going to do that in real life.”

I didn’t say cops shouldn’t have a round in the chamber. But for you to say everyone should have a round in the chamber or not carry a gun is asinine.


17 posted on 08/11/2009 2:44:03 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Spktyr
If it was a revolver he would have simply pulled the trigger again (which he did, apparently) to get to the next loaded cylinder (which he apparently didn’t).

First of all, whenever I'm open carrying a revolver say in the woods with an exposed hammer, I keep the hammer down on an empty cylinder. Always have. Always will.

That having been said, the shooter in this article would only have quickly pulled the trigger if he had the presence of mind to do so. Obviously, there was some pause. He expected the gun to go off. It didn't, That startled him and he spent a moment or two thinking about why the gun didn't go off before he decided to pull the trigger again.

Many years ago, I recall a robbery in which the robber pointed the gun at the clerk, pulled the trigger but the gun didn't go off. Puzzled, he looked down the barrel, pulled the trigger and the gun went off killing him. I thought it was hilarious. Maybe a year or two later, I heard of the same thing happening again in a different robbery. Just because young punks have guns doesn't mean they know anything about how to use them.

Furthermore, whenever a semiauto is involved, the media make sure to mention it. Curious that no mention was made as to the type of gun.

18 posted on 08/11/2009 3:15:04 AM PDT by fso301
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To: fso301

Actually, I notice the media often either misidentifies the weapon or simply doesn’t mention it - unless it’s an evildeathkillrapemurderassault weapon. :P


19 posted on 08/11/2009 3:27:39 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: fso301

I refer you to post #14 for your viewing pleasure of said person advocating said position.


20 posted on 08/11/2009 3:29:45 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: driftdiver
I didn’t say cops shouldn’t have a round in the chamber. But for you to say everyone should have a round in the chamber or not carry a gun is asinine.

... AND for someone to say that everyone that carries a weapon "condition one" is dangerous, is also as you say; asinine... Just saying. ;-)

An unloaded weapon IS a paperweight in a close quarters encounter, just replace the scenario with a citizen being carjacked or robbed, he pulls his weapon without a round in the chamber... "click" = dead.

Most people carry semi-autos and if you think the "average joe" can cycle the slide that quickly under stress... just look at the results in the story, most people train very little with their weapons and most would do the same thing... WTF! it didn't fire... a few seconds go by before the mind re-engages and attempts to correct the situation, and if the bad guy is right there with a knife or gun... you can see the outcome.

21 posted on 08/11/2009 3:41:54 AM PDT by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: Spktyr
I refer you to post #14 for your viewing pleasure of said person advocating said position.

Hey Spktyr... here we are again, still advocating carrying paperweights I see... because really, just how many people carry revolvers these days ;-) Post #21 would be my counter.

22 posted on 08/11/2009 3:49:55 AM PDT by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: AvOrdVet

Um, what? I’m not advocating carrying with an empty chamber on a semiauto.

I also don’t advocate carrying a revolver.

So I have no idea what you’re talking about. I was pointing out to another poster (who had never seen someone foolishly advocating carrying with an empty chamber here on FR) that there was an example of someone advocating that position right here on this very thread (and it wasn’t me.)


23 posted on 08/11/2009 3:55:03 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: AvOrdVet

“AND for someone to say that everyone that carries a weapon “condition one” is dangerous,”

It IS more dangerous than not having a round in the chamber. Isn’t that your point? My point is that level of readiness is not always required.

“Most people carry semi-autos and if you think the “average joe” can cycle the slide that quickly under stress.”

Yes it would take a couple of extra seconds that you may not have. Then again, you may have plenty of time. Depends on the situation and the person. Your generic answer is hogwash and your judgement on who should be able to carry is also hogwash.


24 posted on 08/11/2009 4:02:15 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Spktyr; AvOrdVet

If you’re going to talk about someone its polite to copy them.

You two are a piece of work, pretty typical of the ignorance seen on here lately.


25 posted on 08/11/2009 4:05:46 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

Carrying with an empty chamber on a semiauto is assuming a lot of things.

1. That you’ll have time to rack the slide.
2. That you’ll be able to use both hands to operate the weapon and that your off hand won’t be slick with sweat, blood or some other friction reducing subtance.
3. That in the stress of the moment you will remember to rack your slide.
4. That in the stress of the moment you will retain the dexterity to rack the slide.

That’s assuming an awful lot.


26 posted on 08/11/2009 4:10:49 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

“Carrying with an empty chamber on a semiauto is assuming a lot of things.”

Yes, those are true.

So you’re saying a person should not have the right to make those decisions for themselves?? Or if they do that they are stupid and shouldn’t be allowed to have a firearm?

You are the one assuming an awful lot.


27 posted on 08/11/2009 4:28:53 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver; Spktyr
Thats rather presumptuous of you. Some people prefer it that way and they as much or more knowledgeable than you appear to be.

It's not clear to me from your post what you mean? Are you advocating keeping the hammer down on an empty chamber of a revolvers cylinder or, not chambering a round in a semiauto until you need to use it?

28 posted on 08/11/2009 4:31:59 AM PDT by fso301
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To: driftdiver

No, you have the right to make that decision for yourself.

However, I have the right to ridicule you for your decisions.


29 posted on 08/11/2009 4:39:58 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr; bmwcyle
And that, boys and girls, is why you don’t carry a semiauto pistol without one in the chamber.

That's exactly what my husband has been telling me. Problem was....the gun was new and I was having a hard time with the manual "slingshot" action needed to get a round in the chamber. Carried it a long time that way, but we went to a firing range the other night, and after firing the gun has loosened up a bit.

30 posted on 08/11/2009 4:41:35 AM PDT by Apple Blossom (...around here, city hall is something of a between meals snack.)
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To: Apple Blossom; Spktyr

Never draw with a semi-auto on a person with a revolver or a round in the chamber. They have a time advantage you do not want to deal with. Love you dear.


31 posted on 08/11/2009 4:49:19 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Obama's lies make Bill Clinton's lie small)
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To: Spktyr
Carrying with an empty chamber on a semiauto is assuming a lot of things.

(snip)
3. That in the stress of the moment you will remember to rack your slide.
(snip)

This one right here is the primary problem. Heavy training is needed to overcome this; far more so than most people who carry concealed are going to bother with. The same thing applies to disengaging manual safeties, but I think that is more easily learned. If you blank out on the need to rack the slide, it won't matter if you had enough time to do so.

This is, BTW, why my carry choice is an H&K P7M8. I'd like a heavier caliber, but the design is not only familiar to me - it's very unfamiliar to most everyone else. I know that if someone manages to wrestle it away from me, I have a few seconds before they figure it out.

32 posted on 08/11/2009 5:09:00 AM PDT by Charles Martel ("Endeavor to persevere...")
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To: Spktyr

“However, I have the right to ridicule you for your decisions.”

And I have the right to point out your lack of class. Your in LE I bet.


33 posted on 08/11/2009 5:20:52 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: nickcarraway

I don’t understand why the Cops didn’t have their Guns drawn
when they approached the Car after their chase, doesn’t make sense.


34 posted on 08/11/2009 5:44:42 AM PDT by Rappini ("Pro deo et Patria.)
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To: fso301

Well Geee.... guess that makes new regs for police .. the polieceman lived because of not having one in the chamber .. therefore ...police should never have a round in the chamber. Well damn .. that is just simple logic. (Sarcasm) why carry at all.

I’ve carried 1911’s Conditon 1, locked cocked and ready to rock for years. A round NOT in hole is a round that will never get fired. Accidents don’t happen, they are caused.

Why do I carry Semiauto? Because I can have 45 stopping power in a compact easy to carry package. A 38 in a revolver is easy to carry, but the stopping power is nowhere near a 45.


35 posted on 08/11/2009 5:59:51 AM PDT by HiramQuick (work harder ... welfare recipients depend on you!)
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To: fso301
"...I can't say I've come across anyone advocating carrying a semiauto with an empty chamber but will keep an eye out for it in the future..."

I keep a gun under my bed. It's a Walther P99, and does not have a safety. I am afraid I will somehow kick it in the middle of the night as I come and go from the bathroom, and we have cats/kittens that get into everything. Thus, I leave the mag un-engaged (it will fall out if you pick it up) and no round in the chamber. I always assumed that the night I needed it I'd just engage the mag and rack it. Simple, huh?

The night I had to utilize it (Our front door went BOOM as if someone had kicked it in) I went through that process as I began to clear my house room by room, and lemme tell ya, it was the loudest noise on the planet. Any crack head would have known my location, it was so loud.

Anyway, the door blew open from the wind, because I neglected to lock it that night. There was no home invader, just me, in my underwear, full of adrenaline at 11 at night.

And yes, I was raised in an anti-gun household. I'm still kinda fearful of my gun, and afraid of inadvertantly shooting my neighbor through the walls. I'm working on that.

36 posted on 08/11/2009 6:04:32 AM PDT by I Buried My Guns
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To: nickcarraway

A cup of coffee and happy ending story this morning. Well done.


37 posted on 08/11/2009 6:16:25 AM PDT by Bulldawg Fan (Victory is the last thing Murtha and his fellow Defeatists want.)
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To: HiramQuick
Well Geee.... guess that makes new regs for police .. the polieceman lived because of not having one in the chamber .. therefore ...police should never have a round in the chamber. Well damn .. that is just simple logic. (Sarcasm) why carry at all.

Sorry but I never saw in the article where it said what type gun the shooter had. If you know something more about the story perhaps from another news source, please let us know. Otherwise, anything beyond that is assumption

38 posted on 08/11/2009 6:18:11 AM PDT by fso301
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To: bmwcyle

Never say never. It all depends on circumstances. You always have an option to do what you think is best under that situation. The person who never practices has to realize their limitations. The person who practices all the time has to consider if drawing possibly losing is worth it.

The people who advocate an unchambered semiautomatic have to realize there are those who are very comfortable with a ready to go firearm. Those that advocate a chambered round have to understand not everyone is at their skill level.

My carry guns are all chambered. My house shotguns have a shell half in the chamber in case a visiting child gets curious.


39 posted on 08/11/2009 6:53:06 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: nickcarraway
The discussions here are interesting. Name calling and telling people how you carry....wow. I never reveal what guns (or other) that I have, how I carry them, where they are, etc., etc.

My only thought is someone threatening (that includes name-calling) my family or me individually really doesn't want to do that. Other than that, no further comment.

40 posted on 08/11/2009 8:32:17 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: Shooter 2.5
I finally avoided the entire controversy by switching from my tried and true 1911A1 (which I carried cocked & locked for 20 years and only drew it once) to the DA Sig P245. You pull the trigger, it goes bang. Problem solved.

My summer carry has always been a DA PPK/S in .380/9mm kurz. Doesn't go bang as loudly or effectively, but it doesn't print either.

41 posted on 08/11/2009 8:35:41 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: DeFault User

Naw. The all important lawmakers probably passed a law that they could only buy 5 rounds of ammo per month. Hence the 1 empty chamber.

Next news story. “Lawmakers save cops life”!

Major /s


42 posted on 08/11/2009 9:04:56 AM PDT by US_MilitaryRules (Become a monthly donor or FR won't be here for you!)
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To: driftdiver
I didn’t say cops shouldn’t have a round in the chamber. But for you to say everyone should have a round in the chamber or not carry a gun is asinine.

All right, instead of berating me, give me one reason why someone should carry a pistol without having a round chambered. I'm not talking about someone transporting a pistol or revolver to the range for target practice. I'm talking about the pistol one would carry on their person for protection.

43 posted on 08/11/2009 11:24:24 AM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: driftdiver
You two are a piece of work, pretty typical of the ignorance seen on here lately.

“AND for someone to say that everyone that carries a weapon “condition one” is dangerous,” It IS more dangerous than not having a round in the chamber. Isn’t that your point? My point is that level of readiness is not always required. “Most people carry semi-autos and if you think the “average joe” can cycle the slide that quickly under stress.” Yes it would take a couple of extra seconds that you may not have. Then again, you may have plenty of time. Depends on the situation and the person. Your generic answer is hogwash and your judgement on who should be able to carry is also hogwash.

No, but what I do find is that when someone starts slinging personal barbs they have lost the argument and cannot back up their position or statements.

My observations come from many years of weapons training and instruction both in the military and with various LEO Depts.

No one was attacking or belittling your position, if you can't debate the points, you might want to try an "easier" forum... facebook maybe.

44 posted on 08/11/2009 11:25:55 AM PDT by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: Spktyr
So I have no idea what you’re talking about. I was pointing out to another poster (who had never seen someone foolishly advocating carrying with an empty chamber here on FR) that there was an example of someone advocating that position right here on this very thread (and it wasn’t me.)

My bad, Apologies to you... too many threads, so much dyslexia ;-)

45 posted on 08/11/2009 11:40:14 AM PDT by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: AnAmericanMother
I finally avoided the entire controversy by switching from my tried and true 1911A1 (which I carried cocked & locked for 20 years and only drew it once) to the DA Sig P245. You pull the trigger, it goes bang. Problem solved.

My summer carry has always been a DA PPK/S in .380/9mm kurz. Doesn't go bang as loudly or effectively, but it doesn't print either.

That's why I never owned a 1911. All my training geared me towards having a pistol that was completely ready to shoot as soon as it was drawn. I carry a Glock 23 most of the time and a Ruger LCP when it's too hot to conceal anything bigger. For open carry I have my Springfield Armory XD-45.

46 posted on 08/11/2009 11:43:35 AM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: AvOrdVet

“No, but what I do find is that when someone starts slinging personal barbs they have lost the argument and cannot back up their position or statements.”

Yes I agree, thats why I was so disappointed when you started throwing personal attacks.

“No one was attacking or belittling your position”

You might reread your posts. You were certainly doing that. In at least one case behind my back.


47 posted on 08/11/2009 12:48:46 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: AlaskaErik

“All right, instead of berating me, give me one reason why someone should carry a pistol without having a round chambered. I’m not talking about someone transporting a pistol or revolver to the range for target practice. I’m talking about the pistol one would carry on their person for protection.”

Because most people do not put themselves in risky positions as a normal part of their day. The most important part of self defense has nothing to do with a gun. Be aware of your surroundings and you can avoid many bad events. Sure it means taking a small amount of time before you can engage an attacker but thats a tradeoff with the reduced risk of not having a round chambered round.

Sure there are times when you want to have a round chambered but that level of readiness is not always necessary. Its a personal decision and ridiculing someone or berating someone for it is low.


48 posted on 08/11/2009 12:54:06 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: AvOrdVet

“My observations come from many years of weapons training and instruction both in the military and with various LEO Depts.”

BTW I also received military training. Even the military doesn’t always chamber a round.

And LEO training isn’t all that hot. I can out shoot 75% of the cops in my town. I probably put more practice time in than 90%.


49 posted on 08/11/2009 12:56:50 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
Because most people do not put themselves in risky positions as a normal part of their day. The most important part of self defense has nothing to do with a gun. Be aware of your surroundings and you can avoid many bad events. Sure it means taking a small amount of time before you can engage an attacker but thats a tradeoff with the reduced risk of not having a round chambered round.

I agree situational awareness is extremely important and I am always looking out for trouble. As a LE professional I deal with criminals on a daily basis and some of them have threatened me. But SA isn't a cure-all. As for the reduced risk of not having a round chambered, I don't know what you're talking about. As long as your pistol is in its holster, there is no chance of a round being discharged. If you pull your pistol from its holster, it means you're in trouble and it needs to be ready immediately. You don't need to be in a risky area to at risk.

I don't know what military you were associated with, but with the M-9 the standard carry was round chambered and weapon decocked with the safety off. That was even during training exercises.

50 posted on 08/11/2009 1:49:58 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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