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RUSH: A Duke Professor Explains WHAT THE HEALTH CARE BILL ACTUALLY SAYS
www.rushlimbaugh.com ^ | Wednesday, August 12, 2009 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 08/13/2009 1:33:23 AM PDT by Yosemitest



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 111th; affordablehealth; agenda; bhohealthcare; communism; death; democrat; democrats; fascism; geezercare; health; healthcarebill; healthchoicesact; healthcontrol; hr3200; johndavidlewis; killgranny; killingoldpeople; killthebill; marxism; medicaid; medicare; nationalsocialist; obama; obamacare; rationing; readthebill; rush; socialism; socializedmedicine
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Thank you very much, Rush.
And thank you too, Ph.D. John Lewis.


1 posted on 08/13/2009 1:33:25 AM PDT by Yosemitest
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To: Yosemitest

Marking.


2 posted on 08/13/2009 1:47:45 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: Rummyfan
Here are two laughs to put this into perspective.
and this (click to play).


3 posted on 08/13/2009 1:51:19 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple, fight or die.)
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To: Yosemitest

OMG, Your whole life will be owned by the government. This bill must not pass and Obama needs to go.


4 posted on 08/13/2009 2:04:18 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: theKid51

ping
for later


5 posted on 08/13/2009 2:04:48 AM PDT by theKid51
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To: Yosemitest
Book marked:

Sarah Palin's FaceBook response to 0bama mocking her concerns about 'death panels'.

--------------------------------------------------

Yesterday President Obama responded to my statement that Democratic health care proposals would lead to rationed care; that the sick, the elderly, and the disabled would suffer the most under such rationing; and that under such a system these “unproductive” members of society could face the prospect of government bureaucrats determining whether they deserve health care.

The President made light of these concerns. He said:

“Let me just be specific about some things that I’ve been hearing lately that we just need to dispose of here. The rumor that’s been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma because we’ve decided that we don’t, it’s too expensive to let her live anymore....It turns out that I guess this arose out of a provision in one of the House bills that allowed Medicare to reimburse people for consultations about end-of-life care, setting up living wills, the availability of hospice, etc. So the intention of the members of Congress was to give people more information so that they could handle issues of end-of-life care when they’re ready on their own terms. It wasn’t forcing anybody to do anything.” [1]

The provision that President Obama refers to is Section 1233 of HR 3200, entitled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” [2] With all due respect, it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]

Now put this in context. These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.” [5] Is it any wonder that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care? As Charles Lane notes in the Washington Post, Section 1233 “addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones.... If it’s all about alleviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?” [6]

As Lane also points out:

Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren’t quite “purely voluntary,” as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, “purely voluntary” means “not unless the patient requests one.” Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive -- money -- to do so. Indeed, that’s an incentive to insist.

Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they’re in the meeting, the bill does permit “formulation” of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would “place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,” I don’t think he’s being realistic. [7]

Even columnist Eugene Robinson, a self-described “true believer” who “will almost certainly support” “whatever reform package finally emerges”, agrees that “If the government says it has to control health-care costs and then offers to pay doctors to give advice about hospice care, citizens are not delusional to conclude that the goal is to reduce end-of-life spending.” [8]

So are these usually friendly pundits wrong? Is this all just a “rumor” to be “disposed of”, as President Obama says? Not according to Democratic New York State Senator Ruben Diaz, Chairman of the New York State Senate Aging Committee, who writes:

Section 1233 of House Resolution 3200 puts our senior citizens on a slippery slope and may diminish respect for the inherent dignity of each of their lives.... It is egregious to consider that any senior citizen ... should be placed in a situation where he or she would feel pressured to save the government money by dying a little sooner than he or she otherwise would, be required to be counseled about the supposed benefits of killing oneself, or be encouraged to sign any end of life directives that they would not otherwise sign. [9]

Of course, it’s not just this one provision that presents a problem. My original comments concerned statements made by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor to President Obama and the brother of the President’s chief of staff. Dr. Emanuel has written that some medical services should not be guaranteed to those “who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens....An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.” [10] Dr. Emanuel has also advocated basing medical decisions on a system which “produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” [11]

President Obama can try to gloss over the effects of government authorized end-of-life consultations, but the views of one of his top health care advisors are clear enough. It’s all just more evidence that the Democratic legislative proposals will lead to health care rationing, and more evidence that the top-down plans of government bureaucrats will never result in real health care reform.

[1] See http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/president-obama-addresses-sarah-palin-death-panels-wild-representations.html.
[2] See http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
[3] See HR 3200 sec. 1233 (hhh)(1); Sec. 1233 (hhh)(3)(B)(1), above.
[4] See HR 3200 sec. 1233 (hhh)(1)(E), above.
[5] See http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
[6] See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703043.html].
[7] Id.
[8] See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/10/AR2009081002455.html].
[9] See http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/letter-congressman-henry-waxman-re-section-1233-hr-3200.
[10] See http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Where_Civic_Republicanism_and_Deliberative_Democracy_Meet.pdf
[11] See http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/Principles-for-Allocation-of-Scarce-Medical-Interventions.

6 posted on 08/13/2009 2:12:24 AM PDT by Islander7 (If you want to anger conservatives, lie to them. If you want to anger liberals, tell them the truth.)
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To: Yosemitest

I hope Dr. Lewis referenced the correct plan du jour, because they’re juggling a handful of them in the shell game on Capitol Hill.


7 posted on 08/13/2009 2:22:00 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (When did it become the Democrat You-Shut-Up-And-Listen-To-Me Tour?)
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To: freekitty

You got it. I am retired from the health ins. biz. I was a large group rating and marketing rep. The advent of managed care was when it started going downhill. HMO plans were started and at first were cheaper but soon the cost could not be controlled and the people HATED it. The government option is flawed. First the option is not “optional”. It will turn several of the largest insurers in to administrative services companies only. Smaller companies will get out of the business. The Federal government will become the “gatekeeper”. Deciding who can recieve what services. Every election will be about health insurance and the benefits. The Federal Government will “manage”. Every aspect of life. I hope the people rise up and stop Obama.


8 posted on 08/13/2009 2:30:00 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: screaminsunshine

I remember in the 80s I saw my first HMO. We hated it. Back then we couldn’t get in to see a doctor from the very first. The reason from the doctor they are not taking any new patients. Unbelievable. Two weeks later we had a meeting and got rid of the plan.

People should know how our parents and grandparents thought. They would never allow government including local and state to interfer. They knew by allowing the government to help; they would become slaves.


9 posted on 08/13/2009 2:58:29 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: freekitty

“Your whole life will be owned by the government.”

And thats their goal.


10 posted on 08/13/2009 3:00:14 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Yosemitest

[How will the government ... pay for all this?
“Higher taxes, more borrowing, printing money, cutting payments, or rationing services]

The US government is destroying America and resists all attempts to fix any problem but does the worst job for all peoples.
It is corrupt and stinks to high heaven and may the Lord judge those people who support the legislation and never allow them to hold public office anymore.


11 posted on 08/13/2009 3:08:50 AM PDT by kindred (A third party of conservatives only is the only answer. You can not put new wine in old wineskin's.)
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To: kindred
The libtards can continue to pretend that if they feed the unicorn the right kind of stuff they can get the skittles. Rality is that unless we do specific things the mess the politicians have made will just get messier. Social Security and Medicare are unsustainable. Period. They both have to end.

What takes their place? Free market. It is the only solution. This is why Medical Savings Accounts will ultimately be the only answer. Let people decide for themselves what services they will pay for. There will continue to be terrible stories about 5 year olds with menningitis and such and the answer to these needs to be charity. Good old fashioned charity. The libtards have successfully brainwashed most of the U.S. into accepting their premise that your tax dollars relieve you of your obligation to be charitable. This kind of thinking has led the recipients of this charity to consider it a right. This is unacceptable. You can never use gummint to take what is someone else's and consider it your right. Period. This has to stop. It also is unsustainable.

Until actions that actually fix problems are taken, the problems will just get worse.

Μολὼν λάβε


12 posted on 08/13/2009 3:18:12 AM PDT by wastoute (translation of tag "Come and get them (bastards)" or "come get some")
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To: driftdiver

Exactly and they have convinced their voters that is Utopia; which is so far from the truth as it can get.


13 posted on 08/13/2009 3:31:07 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Yosemitest

Why isn’t this video clip getting more publicity especially from the talk show hosts

http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/new-video-from-nakedemperornews-mother.html


14 posted on 08/13/2009 3:53:12 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: freekitty

Right. They were popular at first. But then the Doctors, Patients and providers got very angry when the insurance company got in between and tried to make decisions. Obama has a plan to turn the whole USA in to one huge HMO of very low quality with 200,000 buerocrats and 50 new government agencys between a doctor and a patient. It will be a total catastrophe. He is lying from start to finish.


15 posted on 08/13/2009 4:37:07 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: Yosemitest

BTT for later read.


16 posted on 08/13/2009 5:04:46 AM PDT by SES1066 (Cycling to conserve, Conservative to save, Saving to Retire, will Retire to Cycle.)
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To: screaminsunshine

Watch out now, Obama and Co have started to bring people on tv to pretend to be mad at the conservatives. They are, of course, lying big time and they want to make you mad for whatever.


17 posted on 08/13/2009 5:33:13 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: freekitty

Well you need to watch MSNBC and whatever they do not like...Do a lot more of it.


18 posted on 08/13/2009 6:00:13 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: Yosemitest; Alamo-Girl; onyx; ALOHA RONNIE; SpookBrat; Republican Wildcat; Howlin; ...
RUSH: A Duke Professor Explains WHAT THE HEALTH CARE BILL ACTUALLY SAYS

- - - - - -

Pingin' my General Interest AND Texas Lists here cuz I thought you'd wanna know!

Thanks for posting this, Yosemitest!! :)

Ping! Ping! Ping!

19 posted on 08/13/2009 8:22:35 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (2008: The year the Media died. --Sean Hannity, regarding Barack HUSSEIN ObaMao's treatment ...)
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To: Yosemitest; socialismisinsidious; nutmeg; Jeff Head; bamahead

BTTT


20 posted on 08/13/2009 8:39:03 AM PDT by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF*GOA*SAS*CCRKBA)
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To: Yosemitest

BTTT


21 posted on 08/13/2009 8:41:31 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite (I have a new name for the occupier of The Oval Office: KING FRAUD! (pronounced King "Faa-raud"))
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To: Yosemitest

ha!

The Paul Shanklin “Recession” is pretty good. :)

“Recession” - by Barack Obama (a Paul Shanklin parody)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65EYyHhanY


22 posted on 08/13/2009 9:03:31 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (2008: The year the Media died. --Sean Hannity, regarding Barack HUSSEIN ObaMao's treatment ...)
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To: Yosemitest

Obama’s goons will be knocking on his door and threatening his family, and Duke professors will petition to strip his tenure. Count on it!


23 posted on 08/13/2009 9:53:34 AM PDT by CedarDave (Obama's poll numbers decrease and stock market values increase. Just coincidence?? Hmmm.)
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To: screaminsunshine

Right.


24 posted on 08/13/2009 9:53:56 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: MeekOneGOP

Thanks for the ping!


25 posted on 08/13/2009 10:08:38 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: All

.

NEWSFLASH! GOVERNOR RICK PERRY IS SCHEDULED TO BE ON PLAINS RADIO MONDAY, AUGUST 17 FROM 7-8 PM CST TO DISCUSS
OBAMA DEATHCARE AND INVOKING THE 10TH AMENDMENT OVER IT.
PLAINS RADIO:
http://www.plainsradio.com/radio.html

.

ATTENTION FELLOW TEXANS:

Governor Rick Perry may invoke the 10th Amendment over Obama’s health care bill (Vanity)
7/23/09 | Cowtowney
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2299225/posts?q=1&;page=51

Get after Perry, Texans. Burn up his switch board and fax!
Let him know we don’t want Obama DeathCare.

Say no to Obama’s DeathCare.
Send a message; DON’T MESS WITH TEXAS healthcare!
No! NO you don’t, you muzzie pos. You’re not denying our seniors deserved health care while insuring millions of illegal aliens and while Demorats are REJECTING Obamacare for themselves and their families!

Join organizations who fight ObamaCare.

This is a good organization:
The Alliance of Texans Against Government Controlled Healthcare:
http://www.notintexas.org/

office (972) 466-2915
fax (972) 466-2965
toll-free (866) 377-1300

From the website:
We are currently contacting Governor Rick Perry by fax and mail!

We have made it easy for you to help. Click here to display the letter and contact information.
http://www.notintexas.org/Letter_rick_perry.htm

Petition to STOP government controlled healthcare in Texas
Read and sign the petition
http://www.notintexas.org/Letter_to_Reps.htm

Print and sign the letter
(feel free to make changes if you wish)

Fax the letter to the fax numbers

Mail a hard copy to the addresses

Call their offices

Dear Governor Perry,

On March 30, 2009 the Texas House of Representatives passed HCR 50 affirming that the State of Texas claims sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment.

You have publicly supported this bill, and stated that attorney generals from all over the union could be getting ready to sue the US Government.

We are asking you to take the lead.

We are asking you to order the Texas Attorney General to publicly begin working on a law suit under Article IV, Ninth, and Tenth Amendment of the Constitution.

We are asking you to protect the citizens of Texas that we will not stand for government controlled healthcare in our state.

Under your leadership we can effectively kill the proposal of this administration and allow Texas to be a state free from socialism and collectivism.

Be the voice of reason in the national debate and allow Texans the ability to solve the problems of our state.

Thank you,

(Signature Date)

Lookup your state representatives

FREE FAX SERVICSES:
http://www.gotfreefax.com/
http://faxzero.com/
or google ‘free fax’

Contacting Rick Perry

Office of the Governor
P.O. Box 12428
Austin, Texas 78711
Phone: (512) 463-2000
Fax: (512) 463-1849

Washington Office:
122 C St., NW, Ste. 200
Washington, DC 20001
Phone: (202) 638-3927
Fax: (202) 628-1943

Contact Budget Planning and Policy

Address:1100 San Jacinto
Austin, Texas 78701
Phone: (512) 463-1778
Fax: (512) 463-1975
Gregory S. Davidson
Constituent Communication Division Director and
Executive Clerk to the Governor
Phone: (512) 463-1873

Office of the General Counsel
Department Mailing Address
P.O. Box 12428
Austin, TX 78711
Phone: 512.463.2000
Fax: 512.463.1932

Press Secretary
Allison Castle, Press Secretary
P.O. Box 12428
Austin, Texas 78711
Phone: (512) 463-1826
Fax: (512) 463-1847

Contact Texas Health Care Policy Council
P.O. Box 12428
Austin, Texas 78711
Phone: (512) 463-1778
Fax: (512) 463-1975

Sign up. Become a member.
Sign petition against Obamacare!
See member interview with Cavuto!

____________________

From Texans Against Government Controlled Health Care

http://www.notintexas.org/

Facts about the 10th Amendment:

The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791. The Tenth Amendment restates the Constitution’s principle of Federalism by providing that powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states or the people.

The truth about government controlled healthcare:
Government healthcare is failing miserably in Massachusetts
If you think a government run healthcare system can work and be more affordable, read this... http://www.notintexas.org/Front_5.htm

Article from the Washington Examiner 1/11/09:
“Obama’s health policy advisers should take a good look at the smoldering wreckage in the Bay State before trying to impose any such “universal coverage” on the rest of the nation.” Link http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/Universal_coverage_First_look_at_the_disaster_in_Massachusetts_011109.html

More interesting reading - Free Market Cure
http://www.freemarketcure.com/

HCR 50 HAS PASSED THE HOUSE 99-36!
Affirming that the State of Texas claims sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the U.S. Constitution, serving notice to the federal government to cease and desist certain mandates, and providing that certain federal legislation be prohibited or repealed.

Take Action! Before it is too late!


26 posted on 08/13/2009 10:41:16 AM PDT by patriot08
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To: Yosemitest

BTT


27 posted on 08/13/2009 10:47:54 AM PDT by AuntB (Tired of Left/right coast globalist party power brokers? How 'bout THE HEARTLAND AMERICA PARTY??)
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To: Yosemitest

bump.


28 posted on 08/13/2009 11:21:03 AM PDT by mel
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To: wastoute; 11th Commandment; 17th Miss Regt; 2001convSVT; 2banana; 2ndDivisionVet; ...
Based on the lack of response to your post it doesn't look like even here on FR there are many who want to take a look behind the curtain. In you I have come across one of only a few Freepers who "get it"! The feral government has put programs in place that not only can but WILL bankrupt the country. Fact is, our country is in technical bankruptcy already. The answer as you say when you're doing something that is causing more outgo than income and the prospects for increasing income are slim to none, what is the only choice left - reduce or eliminate the outgo.

As much as I would hate to give the commie in the WH any credit for anything, I would give it to him for taking on the Medicare problem(which is what it boils down to) IF I thought for a minute any of this was his idea. More likely his handlers are behind this and he is a willing accomplice. His/their solution of course is NOT the answer since it adds more UNCONSTITUTIONAL feral government intrusion onto an ALREADY unconstitutional program.

Once again I'm going to abuse my 10th Amendment ping list to get a larger constitutionally minded group involved with their opinions. Sorry for any inconvenience ;^)

29 posted on 08/13/2009 12:33:42 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST. Have I missed anything?)
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To: Yosemitest

Haven’t you all figured out this health care crap yet? Look, it’s not about “taking care” of people (not the way you think about it). It’s about control. They don’t give a rats @#@ about “the people”. Otherwise, why would they have a provision in this bill about taxing the living @#$$ out of employers who provide coverage outside the federal health plan. Why would the feds care if you were lucky enough to work for a company that provides superior health care beyond what the Feds offered? Wouldn’t they embrace this? Isn’t this about providing care, taking care of people? Hell no, it’s not!

Don’t you get it yet? It’s about control and dictating how you will live—if you’re permitted.


30 posted on 08/13/2009 12:39:09 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper
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To: ForGod'sSake
How about I already read this elsewhere???

And didn't need to REREAD it...here.

31 posted on 08/13/2009 12:42:06 PM PDT by Osage Orange (“A community organizer can’t bitch when communities organize.....” - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: Osage Orange
How about I already read this elsewhere???

So, you've had some time to study the problem of Medicare and less so Social Security and their disastrous effects on our economy? I'd be interested in any thoughts if it's not too much trouble.

32 posted on 08/13/2009 12:48:11 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST. Have I missed anything?)
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To: AuntB
NEWSFLASH! GOVERNOR RICK PERRY IS SCHEDULED TO BE ON PLAINS RADIO MONDAY, AUGUST 17 FROM 7-8 PM CST TO DISCUSS OBAMA DEATHCARE AND INVOKING THE 10TH AMENDMENT OVER IT.

Woo HOO!! Go Gov. Goodhair!!

(Unfortunately, I will be out of state on Business, Monday :-( )

33 posted on 08/13/2009 12:50:56 PM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: ForGod'sSake

I actually sent the transcript viral email to the Patriots on my list.


34 posted on 08/13/2009 1:00:44 PM PDT by EBH (it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new Government)
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To: ForGod'sSake
Based on the lack of response to your post it doesn't look like even here on FR there are many who want to take a look behind the curtain.

I would consider the lack of response as being due to the fact that we all agree and have nothing more to add. The post pretty well covered it.

one of only a few Freepers who "get it"!


I don't know what you are talking about. Darn near all the FReepers I have seen 'get it'. Along with everyone at the teaparties.

As much as I would hate to give the commie in the WH any credit for anything, I would give it to him for taking on the Medicare problem

Look again and save your 'credit'. His goal is not and never has been to 'take on the Medicare problem'. He is deliberately trying to bankrupt it! His whole goal IS to bankrupt the system so it can be replaced but a MORE socialist system. He is going to get more and more people on the various doles until they fall apart. Then in infinite wisdom and compassion the Dems will sweep in to 'fix' things again when the break more. Once again they will blame the problem on the private elements remaining in the system and 'fix' it by removing even more of those. Don't give him credit for anything. They made the problem, and they are making it worse so they can 'get credit' for 'fixing it' again and again.

What they are doing is NOT an accident and it is NOT compassion and it is CERTAINLY NOT taking on tough problems to try and fix them. They thing the private sector IS the problem and removing that is what they are trying to fix. All of these tactics were laid out by socialists half a century ago. Don't fall for them now by giving him ANY credit for ANYTHING.
35 posted on 08/13/2009 1:01:13 PM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: EBH
I actually sent the transcript viral email to the Patriots on my list.

Cool! Any thoughts on the underlying problem of the impending train wreck called Medicare in particular?

36 posted on 08/13/2009 1:09:35 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST. Have I missed anything?)
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To: wastoute

Yes! Yes! Yes!

What I dream of is a congress that would cut our taxes to allow US to purchase (or not) the insurance WE CHOOSE. I don’t even want employers to have to supply employees with insurance.

Not only in the area of healthcare and insurance, but any place else government has stuck its nose where it does not belong.


37 posted on 08/13/2009 1:12:26 PM PDT by abigailsmybaby (To understan' the livin' you got to commune wit' da dead.)
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To: TalonDJ
I don't know what you are talking about. Darn near all the FReepers I have seen 'get it'. Along with everyone at the teaparties..

You'll pardon me for disagreeing. If what you say is true, Freepers in particular, being a conservative bunch generally, would be all over the need to scrap Medicare or at least phase it out. I've seen very few willing to even address the problem at all. My sense is there are too many people along for the ride who can't get off before the Medicare train wreck.

And I have no illusions about giving anybody credit, least of all the commie in the WH. You also pretty much made my point that their goal is to take the problem they created back in the 60's with Medicare in particular, and create an even bigger problem with even more feral government intrusion.

38 posted on 08/13/2009 1:21:36 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST. Have I missed anything?)
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To: ForGod'sSake
You know, most of your post was of a "denigrating my fellow FReeper tone"....

And it continues.....

I've bigger foes to fight against...than you. And you do also.....

I just found it interesting that you reduced yourself to bagging on your fellow FReepers.....when not realizing that just perhaps many,,,( including me...) were already informed about this, and/or listen to Rush......

fwiw-and good luck!

39 posted on 08/13/2009 1:27:35 PM PDT by Osage Orange (“A community organizer can’t bitch when communities organize.....” - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: ForGod'sSake

The federal government shouldn’t be involved in healthcare, since that would violate the 10th Amendment. Each state legislature should pass a law that would limit the amount that a person may sue, in malpractice lawsuits. If that happens, health insurance premiums, for patients, would decrease, and malpractice insurance premiums, for doctors, would decrease.


40 posted on 08/13/2009 1:30:34 PM PDT by PhilCollins
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To: Osage Orange
I've bigger foes to fight against...than you. And you do also.....

True enough and Freepers are nothing if not opinionated. I have no intentions of flogging a dead horse, but just what is the single largest problem conservatives face right now, or at any time for that matter? An out of control feral government? There's no question the federales have overstepped their constitutional limitations. However, that in and of itself is NOT the problem. It's what they have done as they overreached that is the problem. Primarily social(ist) engineering and social(ist) programs. The largest of which coincidentally is Medicare. Medicaid is running a close second and Social Security a distant third. These programs ARE the problem. Do we allow our masters in DC to continue placing bandaids on a gaping wound???

And you're right, I do rag on Freepers from time to time, but my brother and I still get into heated arguments occasionally also. And we're NOT spring chickens.

And good luck to you and yours.

41 posted on 08/13/2009 1:42:16 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST. Have I missed anything?)
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To: Yosemitest

Great post! I copied them, will post them all over the internet. I hope others do the same.


42 posted on 08/13/2009 1:48:03 PM PDT by mojitojoe (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for the people to remain silent.)
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To: PhilCollins
The federal government shouldn’t be involved in healthcare, since that would violate the 10th Amendment.

Just so, and would I be presumptious in assuming that to include Medicare?

Each state legislature should pass a law that would limit the amount that a person may sue, in malpractice lawsuits. If that happens, health insurance premiums, for patients, would decrease, and malpractice insurance premiums, for doctors, would decrease.

All of which I agree with. The individual states could do cradle to grave if they choose to, and some have essentially done that. It hasn't worked out so well from most accounts. Of course the lawyers are not going to do anything that would cut into their take. The situation I noted from reading another article on the subject is that there is something here called the American Law(?) that allows ANYONE to bring suit against anybody for just about anything. And the defendants always must pay for their own defense regardless of the merits OR the outcome of the suit. Even THAT wouldn't be nearly the problem it is were it not for the poor's ability to access free legal services from a plethora of sources.

43 posted on 08/13/2009 1:59:46 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have two choices and two choices only: SUBMIT or RESIST. Have I missed anything?)
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To: ForGod'sSake

We must get the Federal Government out of it 100%. The answer is...there is no government solution. Obama will lead us to the Cuban model. Everything is free but there isn’t any.


44 posted on 08/13/2009 2:06:57 PM PDT by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: DustyMoment

“Woo HOO!! Go Gov. Goodhair!!”

Perry seems to be moving in the right direction on some things, I hope he keeps going.


45 posted on 08/13/2009 2:14:14 PM PDT by AuntB (Tired of D & R globalist power brokers? How 'bout HEARTLAND AMERICA PARTY? It's a state of mind!)
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To: ForGod'sSake
Many times in my years....I've thought, "Dagnabit, YOU should be doing more..because I am working my tail off!!"

When I find that everyone "runs" at different speeds....

Yeah, your points are totally noted. I actually think that SSI, and MediCare with THE Feds in "control" of it...have bankrupt the Government..among hundreds of other things...

And now THEY are lashing out....because THEY have screwed it up...but will NEVER admit it.

I just think there are way more FReepers out here...that totally get it. And it does no good to harp on them.....

Peace, Love, and Bobby Sherman...........

46 posted on 08/13/2009 2:25:52 PM PDT by Osage Orange (“A community organizer can’t bitch when communities organize.....” - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: Osage Orange
And it does no good to harp on them.....

Exactly. As conservatives it is fair to assume most of us want to cut most of the federal government. Medicare, Medicaid, Social security, Welfare... the works. No sense in attacking us just because we don't list the programs we would like to see cut in every post.
47 posted on 08/13/2009 2:32:19 PM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: ForGod'sSake
Behind the scenes this bill is scary. I have been reading and listening to Betsy McCaughey. What stands out about her is that the left actually attacks her and responds to her comments. In my mind that means she is on to something and they want to shut her up.... a lot like Palin.

Her most alarming warning is that this Bill is the most significant transfer of power from the legislative branch to the Executive Branch in US History. And now I read in this post that citizens will have no recourse in the Judicial Branch.

Health Care "Reform" is Obama's Enabling Act.

48 posted on 08/13/2009 2:46:29 PM PDT by 11th Commandment (Proud Member of the DHS radical list since Jan 20, 2009)
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To: ForGod'sSake

“Based on the lack of response to your post it doesn’t look like even here on FR there are many who want to take a look behind the curtain.”

I think that Freepers are fired up just like alot of other people across the country. The seemingly small response should not be taken as contradictory to their passion and engagement.


49 posted on 08/13/2009 2:48:29 PM PDT by oneamericanvoice (Support freedom! Support the troops! Surrender is not an option!)
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To: Yosemitest

Thank you very much for posting this.
I’ve been trying to find a source that deciphers the plan (with out hyperbole or sarcasm).

Thank you Dr Lewis.


50 posted on 08/13/2009 2:49:12 PM PDT by Lorianne
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