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Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
Investor's Business Daily ^ | August 14, 2009 | IBD staff

Posted on 08/14/2009 5:51:51 PM PDT by WhiteCastle

Conservation: The Chevy Volt is said to be able to get 230 miles per gallon. That's if it's continually plugged into a fragile and overburdened power grid. Where will you be when the lights go out?

Since most U.S. electricity generation is not carbon-free, the Congressional Research Service agrees. The "widespread adoption of plug-in hybrid vehicles through 2030 may have only a small effect on, and might actually increase, carbon emissions," it observes.

"If you are using coal-fired power plants and half the country's electricity comes from coal powered plants, are you just trading one greenhouse gas emitter for another?" asks Mark Gaffigan, co-author of the GAO report. The report notes: "Reductions in CO2 emissions depend on generating electricity used to charge the vehicles from lower-emission sources of energy."

(Excerpt) Read more at ibdeditorials.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: automakers; automobiles; autos; batteries; battery; bigthree; blackouts; brownouts; cafe; carbonemissions; cars; chevrolet; chevyvolt; clowncars; clunkers; co2; coal; coalfired; crashthegrid; detroit; electriccars; electricgrid; electricity; elsewhereemission; emissions; environment; fueleconomy; gao; gm; governmentmotors; greencar; greenhousegas; hybrid; hybridcars; hybrids; ibd; mpg; nrownouts; nuclearpower; plugin; powergrid; prius; volt
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1 posted on 08/14/2009 5:51:51 PM PDT by WhiteCastle
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To: WhiteCastle
Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?

I’m sure the seven or eight that might sell will not crash the grid. ;-)

2 posted on 08/14/2009 5:55:01 PM PDT by doc1019 (Obama? Not so much.)
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To: WhiteCastle

Power won’t be an issue if they’re pulled by magical unicorns.


3 posted on 08/14/2009 5:55:33 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: WhiteCastle

They are called coal powered cars.

They get two miles to the lump.


4 posted on 08/14/2009 5:55:39 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: WhiteCastle

Dear IBD staff, FReepers were asking that question long, long ago. You folks are just getting around to it?


5 posted on 08/14/2009 5:56:31 PM PDT by theDentist (fybo qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: doc1019
I’m sure the seven or eight that might sell will not crash the grid. ;-)

Perhaps you want to go back gasoline powered refrigerators?

6 posted on 08/14/2009 5:57:13 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: WhiteCastle

Cap and trade will crash the energy grid.


7 posted on 08/14/2009 6:01:05 PM PDT by boomop1
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To: WhiteCastle
That's if it's continually plugged into a fragile and overburdened power grid.

Fragile and over-burdened, but only because we can't build power plants. Not everyone is going to switch to electrics at once. If we're allowed to respond to increased demand by building power plants, preferably lots of smaller ones well-distributed, its a non-issue. ("If")

"If you are using coal-fired power plants and half the country's electricity comes from coal powered plants, are you just trading one greenhouse gas emitter for another?"

Well, yes, but carbon is not my issue. You are switching to a single point of emissions well scrubbed and precipitated, which is a good thing. And coal is entirely domestic, we don't have to import any at all. Every mile driven is that much oil not imported, and that many dollars not sent out of the country.

We might never want to be 100% electric, since a grid going down would be disastrous, but if commuter cars were electric (and your pickup was gasoline) then we've cut our oil demand by a large percentage while retaining some flexibility.

And if we could convince "them" to go ahead with coal-to-liquids plants for those gasoline and diesel users that remain, so much the better. The idea that we can't get off imported oil is just a lack of imagination.

8 posted on 08/14/2009 6:03:50 PM PDT by marron
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To: WhiteCastle
The free market has nothing to do with these electric autos. They are a tremendous waste of taxpayer dollars. They will flop and the obamatons will blame the free market.
9 posted on 08/14/2009 6:04:51 PM PDT by Jacquerie (More Central Planning is not the solution to the failure of Central Planning.)
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To: ColdWater

Mayhap you missed my point … I don’t think these electric critters will become popular anytime in the near future. Just say’n. ;-)


10 posted on 08/14/2009 6:04:55 PM PDT by doc1019 (Obama? Not so much.)
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To: cripplecreek
Power won’t be an issue if they’re pulled by magical unicorns.

Yeah, but those methane emissions from the unicorns....

11 posted on 08/14/2009 6:05:30 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: doc1019

Mark Levin has said we’ll have hats like in the 1950’s, with the little propellers on top.

http://www.villagehatshop.com/propeller_round.html


12 posted on 08/14/2009 6:07:11 PM PDT by Daisyjane69 (Michael Reagan: "Welcome back, Dad, even if you're wearing a dress and bearing children this time)
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To: WhiteCastle

Even without these cars, I have seen others posting here that (on the topic of smart meters and being able to turn off your power) certain utilities are already making plans for rolling blackouts in a couple years when demand is a lot greater than supply. Obama and the lbis aren’t allowing any expansion of power supplies.


13 posted on 08/14/2009 6:08:15 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: WhiteCastle
That's if it's continually plugged into a fragile and overburdened power grid.

We have excess electric power generating capacity at night. Perfect time to recharge electric cars.

14 posted on 08/14/2009 6:11:23 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: WhiteCastle
WOULDN'T IT BE MORE EFFICIENT TO CUT OUT THE MIDDLE MAN AND GO BACK TO PRODUCING THE STANLEY STEAMER? Photobucket
15 posted on 08/14/2009 6:15:49 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: Daisyjane69

I kinda got my eye on that crown.


16 posted on 08/14/2009 6:19:00 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: WhiteCastle
NO PROBLEM AT ALL.

Electric Cars will be gradually introduced. The most encouraging of them will be the new EREV's. This is the most promising technology. They will be charged overnight when there is much less of a load on the grid. Initially they won't make much of a difference. By the time they are numerous, hopefully a new administration with a much more intelligent energy policy will be in office.

If we are to have any future at all Nuclear Energy will have to be a big part of this new energy. Solar and Wind are Mickey Mouse.

Remember EREV's, Coal Gassification, and Nuclear are the keys to energy independence.
17 posted on 08/14/2009 6:21:54 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough!)
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To: WhiteCastle
Another Boogie-man Blog!!!!, Yawn!!!
18 posted on 08/14/2009 6:23:22 PM PDT by org.whodat (Vote: Chuck De Vore in 2012.)
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To: doc1019
Mayhap you missed my point … I don’t think these electric critters will become popular anytime in the near future. Just say’n. ;-)

I'd take you up on that. The Chevy Volt will be a huge success and there are a number of other EREV's on the way close behind the Volt. Yes I don't think people will go for the all electrics but the EREV's, that's a different story. You will be eating crow very soon.

http://gm-volt.com
19 posted on 08/14/2009 6:27:04 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough!)
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To: cripplecreek
"But...but...but - we're doing SOMETHING!"

Snort.....

20 posted on 08/14/2009 6:27:12 PM PDT by ErnBatavia (Impeach now....not next month... now)
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To: doc1019

OK. Just see so many anti-electric car posts. One can argue about motives, incentives, etc., but electric cars are should be a part of the transportation pie. Great for city commuters. Now, if only H-D would come out with an electric!


21 posted on 08/14/2009 6:35:39 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: truthguy
The Chevy Volt will be a huge success

Based on their own PR, I guess you might be right. ;-)

22 posted on 08/14/2009 6:35:54 PM PDT by doc1019 (Obama? Not so much.)
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To: Izzy Dunne

***Yeah, but those methane emissions from the unicorns....***

It’s not the methane emissions that worry me. It’s those darn unicorn horns which don’t beep in an emergency.


23 posted on 08/14/2009 6:36:45 PM PDT by kitkat
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To: doc1019
Hey doc

Go to the Website I've listed and learn about this exciting new EREV technology. It's going to be a great new way for the auto industry. I'll bet that in 10 years, most of the new vehicles will employ this EREV technology. Don't be so smug. The Volt will be a sucess and there are a bunch more EREV's to follow. Read up and get educated.

http://gm-volt.com
24 posted on 08/14/2009 6:40:53 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough!)
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To: Doe Eyes

They’ll call us the “midnight juicers”

Makes sense to me.


25 posted on 08/14/2009 6:43:58 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: ColdWater

You may be right, I just don’t see it happening in the near future. Americans are just to use to their gas burning, long range, no distance restricting vehicles. IMHO ;-)


26 posted on 08/14/2009 6:44:44 PM PDT by doc1019 (Obama? Not so much.)
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To: boomop1
Cap and trade will crash the energy grid.

Cap and trade will crash the entire country.

27 posted on 08/14/2009 6:48:15 PM PDT by meyer (Do not go gentle into that good night - Rage, rage against the dying of the light.)
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To: meyer

It’ll probably bring back neighborhood midwifery. I can see many situations where someone failed to plug in the car.


28 posted on 08/14/2009 6:50:22 PM PDT by yorkie01
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To: WhiteCastle

Unless we build a lot of nuke plants, I don’t see how we can support an electric fleet.


29 posted on 08/14/2009 6:53:39 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: truthguy
The Chevy Volt will be a huge success...

Anybody that buys one of those fascistmobiles deserves to have their butt kicked daily.

30 posted on 08/14/2009 6:54:05 PM PDT by meyer (Do not go gentle into that good night - Rage, rage against the dying of the light.)
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To: kitkat
It’s those darn unicorn horns which don’t beep in an emergency.

Thus the phrase, "Honk if you're horny".

31 posted on 08/14/2009 6:55:30 PM PDT by meyer (Do not go gentle into that good night - Rage, rage against the dying of the light.)
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To: truthguy

Not being smug, just looking out my window at the local highway. I also have a sense of history when it comes to American trends in transportation. I have read much about the innovations in transportation and consider myself somewhat educated on all the latest automobile technologies (you assume a lot) because I’m in the market for a new vehicle. I just don’t see it happening in the near future.

I was around when the ICE BOX was still a household phenomenon, when the TV became a household item, when TV went to color and I love all things new.

I have the latest computer gadgets, and a computer configuration second to none (put it together myself), so I can’t be accused of not wanting change. I just don’t see this trend happening in the near future. JMHO ;-)


32 posted on 08/14/2009 7:00:09 PM PDT by doc1019 (Obama? Not so much.)
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To: WhiteCastle

Well, it will only cost 40 cents a day to charge, off peak hours, per GM spokes people on local Detroit radio.

Now I’m wondering how they will make
these car owner pay for road repairs!!


33 posted on 08/14/2009 7:03:34 PM PDT by Springman (Rest In Peace YaYa123)
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To: Daisyjane69

34 posted on 08/14/2009 7:07:45 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Obama is in way over his ears.)
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To: doc1019

Well, it took my Dad untill 1978 to know that “Color TV” wasn’t a fad.

He wouldn’t get cable TV untill 2004.


35 posted on 08/14/2009 7:10:19 PM PDT by Springman (Rest In Peace YaYa123)
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To: WhiteCastle
the numbers are not right at cruise that thing is using 30 HP or so and I can not run that much equipment in my factory for $.40 a day or $12.00 a month
36 posted on 08/14/2009 7:13:31 PM PDT by Cheetahcat (Zero the Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
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To: WhiteCastle

I have read that the number of tons of coal is about 5 to be equivalent of a tank full of gasoline. Admittedly coal is much dirtier than gas so how much pollution will be added on top of oil pollution.

Its the dirty little fact they won’t talk about.

Have a good day.


37 posted on 08/14/2009 7:15:18 PM PDT by ully2 (ully)
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To: Springman

LOL!


38 posted on 08/14/2009 7:15:28 PM PDT by doc1019 (Obama? Not so much.)
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To: WhiteCastle
The Chevy Volt is said to be able to get 230 miles per gallon.

Prove it!

The PUBLISHED stuff says it'll go 40 miles on a full charge and THEN a 'small' gasoline engine will kick in to go 300 miles!

Yeah - sure.

Show me the TANK size...

Tell me the engine DISPLACEMENT...

(I can do the math)...

Will the engine DIRECTLY drive the car or go through a lossy generator system to charge the batteries?

Inquiring minds want to know!

39 posted on 08/14/2009 7:20:07 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: WhiteCastle

Don’t think enough people will buy them to make a difference. Do the math. Volt with tax credits cost about $35,000. Regular car, about $18,000 that gets about 20 mpg. So you save $17K and at $3.5 per gallon avg. over the next several years, you can buy about 4,800 gallons of gas or go about 96,000 miles before you break even. Just saying.


40 posted on 08/14/2009 7:23:20 PM PDT by bobsunshine
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To: WhiteCastle

I don’t really care about CO2 hippie stuff but what i do care about is that i would rather give my money to an American coal fired plant than a Muslim Oil producing country anyday.

As long as we can keep the hippies moving electric cars over here than as the grid gets taxed we can push for nuclear. Well the hippies will be forced to decide between going back to foreign oil or to going nuclear.


41 posted on 08/14/2009 7:30:10 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Doe Eyes

exactly. This will be good for the electric companies. They can run their units at baseload and they will be more efficient.


42 posted on 08/14/2009 8:00:41 PM PDT by I got the rope
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To: mysterio
Unless we build a lot of nuke plants, I don’t see how we can support an electric fleet.

Think about how much more electricity you use during the day compared to when you are sleeping. TV:250 Lights:500 Stove, Washer, Dryer, Stereo, Computer, .....

That is the difference that can supply MANY electric cars by smart night charging.

43 posted on 08/14/2009 8:21:39 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: WhiteCastle

44 posted on 08/14/2009 8:23:16 PM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin is our Iron Lady of the North)
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To: ully2
I have read that the number of tons of coal is about 5 to be equivalent of a tank full of gasoline. .... Its the dirty little fact they won’t talk about.

Your dirty little fact is totally false.

45 posted on 08/14/2009 8:29:32 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: Springman
Now I’m wondering how they will make these car owner pay for road repairs!!

Covered. They want to install GPS's in the cars and track your mileage and even which roads (toll, county, state, bridges, etc) you drive on.

46 posted on 08/14/2009 8:31:28 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: Springman
Now I’m wondering how they will make these car owner pay for road repairs!!

A new set of tax packages, of course.
47 posted on 08/14/2009 8:51:39 PM PDT by CarlosFonke
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To: ully2

10,000 pounds of coal to generate enough electricity to move a car about 300 miles? Uh, I don’t think that sounds right...


48 posted on 08/14/2009 9:06:05 PM PDT by dadgum (Security System. Dog. 12 gauge. 3" magnum turkey loads. Shovel.)
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To: bobsunshine

You’re also not adding in the costs of the batteries for these things. On the Prius, a replacement battery currently costs @$2500-$3000. (Although I hear the price is supposed to drop down to around $2000.) Guess what? Here in Arizona, I just had to replace a regular old $80 battery last weekend. I got a year and a half out of it. So I always buy the warranty because in this heat, batteries do NOT last, and you can be guaranteed that a $3000 battery will not fare any better.


49 posted on 08/14/2009 9:07:38 PM PDT by ponygirl
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To: truthguy
  >> The Chevy Volt will be a huge success

I sure hope so, truthguy! Yes they will be costly at first (what ISN'T, when it's new?) but that should change rapidly.

IMHO most importantly, EREVs are currently our best chance forward to eliminating our addiction to foreign oil. Nevermind BS "saving the planet" feel-goodery, this is about national security!

People, your best bet for information about this car is neurosurgeon and Volt buff Lyle Dennis's website, gm-volt.com, which was quite aptly cited by truthguy. The latest news about the Volt is always there, Dr. Dennis has been on top of this thing since the Volt concept was first shown in early 2007. Plus, read the comments after each news-blog entry, and you'll also get perspectives from EV fans, oil haters, environmentalists, regular car-lovin' people, patriots... all kinds of folks.

You owe it to yourself to educated about EREVs. Visit today! http://www.GM-VOLT.com.
50 posted on 08/14/2009 10:55:38 PM PDT by Mike-o-Matic
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