Posted on 08/15/2009 9:21:44 AM PDT by nickcarraway
As federal officials investigate last week's deadly collision between a helicopter and small plane over the Hudson River, new details are emerging about the conduct of an air traffic controller in the moments before the crash.
A report by the National Transportation Safety Board says a controller at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey made a phone call after clearing the single-engine Piper plane for takeoff on August 8 at 11:48 a.m.
According to the Associated Press, the controller's conversation was about a dead cat that had been removed from the airport.
The report says the controller then told the pilot at 11:52 a.m. to contact Newark Liberty Airport, which is part of procedure, but that the pilot apparently did not contact Newark.
The plane and helicopter crashed a minute later, at 11:53 a.m. An Italian tourist caught an image of the collision which killed nine people, seen right. Federal Aviation Administration officials say while the controller's actions did not contribute to the accident, the phone conversation was inappropriate.
NTSB officials say radar data show several aircraft in the plane's path, including the helicopter it collided with, but say the Teterboro controller did not warn the pilot.
The report also says when Newark tower crews warned Teterboro that the plane and chopper were too close, the Teterboro controller twice tried unsuccessfully to contact the pilot just before the crash.
Officials also say the Teterboro controller's supervisor was not in the building, as required, at the time of the crash.
The supervisor and controller have been placed on administrative leave.
The union representing Air Traffic Controllers says it supports a full investigation and says there should be no rush to judgment on the controller's behavior.
Geraldo will be deeply saddened. He was on F&F yesterday morning demanding these traffic controllers be booked for murder. Horrible tragedy, made more so by drama queens like Geraldo.
I heard that stupid homo’s rant. Made want to support the controllers.
response: Unfortunately, given government speak this statement means their default of duty DID contribute to the crash.
Really? That's sensationalism of the worst kind--tantamount to Obama condemning the Cambridge police before the facts were in.
I’ve been trying to figure out how these air traffic controllers were at fault for something that happened in uncontrolled airspace.
Sounds to me like someone higher up is trying to head off questions about why its uncontrolled airspace.
I read a different story that said the controller tried to contact the plane twice and it never responded.
Controller bantering about dead cat before crash
It wasn't until controllers at the Newark airport alerted the Teterboro controller to the potential collision that he twice tried unsuccessfully to contact the pilot, the report said. The collision occurred at 11:53 and 14 seconds.
No. Not according to other articles. The controller tried to contact the plane and it never responded. He also told them to contact Newark and it never did. See post 7.
You can always get vfr flight following and traffic advisories but they are not required and only available if the controller is not busy, in the end uncontrolled airspace is just that and if you fail to see and avoid......it is your fault.
new yuk lawyers looking for LOOT! If FAA is federal organization, can’t sue them, right?
They should book Geraldo for the MURDER OF JOURNALISM. He's a real s*** eating dog, sometimes.
Spot On!
Spot On!
The primary purpose of the Air Traffic Controller is to separate aircraft to prevent collisions, and to organize and expedite the flow of traffic.
Controllers are charged with controlling airspace, and they do this by controlling the aircraft within that airspace.
Regardless of whether or not an aircraft is flying under VFR or IFR, the controller still has the responsibility of controlling that airspace for the safety of the public.
When controllers are responsible for separating some or all aircraft, that airspace is called “controlled airspace” as opposed to “uncontrolled airspace” where aircraft fly without the use of the air traffic control system.
As a pilot, I was trained and do remember a question on my exam that reiterated the most basic rule...the least maneuverable craft has the right of way and other pilots must give way. I’ve always been a chicken pilot. Because of that, I’ve always maintained the attitude that I don’t need no stinkin’ instruments or controllers to keep me and mine safe. Of course I want them there, but I trained to accommodate situations that they weren’t. That has served me well.
My opinion, FWIW, is that both of the pilots and ATC erred. All three of them were distracted from their primary responsibility...ensuring safety.
That said, there is no one who can convince me that if either the supervisor was at station, as he was required to be, or the controller was paying full attention to his airspace, this would have happened.
The bottom line is, the pilot in command has the final responsibility for the safety of the flight.
There are still a ton of facts that we aren’t aware of, that’s what the NTSB is for, to determine facts.
This is gonna’ be a long investigation, with some tough to accept decisions at the end.
VFR
PIC
See and avoid.
Was there a common frequency to use to self announce ones location in that airspace?
The VFR corridors I use there always is.
Here's the best article I've read on this so far: WSJ: Agencies at Odds Over New York Crash
I'm curious who the FAA will decide had the legal right of way. It could be argued the helicopter was more maneuverable, although that may not be a factor in this case. The airplane was to the helicopter's right, so normally the airplane would have the right of way, however if the airplane was flying faster than the helicopter and overtaking it, the helicopter would have the right of way. The helicopter was slightly lower than the airplane, at least at impact, and the lower aircraft has right of way during landing but not otherwise. The airplane was banking to the right and got its right wing chopped off, so it may have been acting on the ATC traffic advisory. Piper aircraft are low wing so have dangerous blind spots looking down. Obviously neither pilot saw the other aircraft, likely because both were in blind spots.
to read...
What makes you think it was uncontrolled airspace?
Thanks for linking this article.
I haven’t studied this accident before now, so I have not good take on it in particular. However, take it from this pilot...
Anyone who has a tendency to blame the air traffic controllers for an accident have no idea how difficult their job is. Personally, I don’t know how they can maintain sufficient concentration to do that job for more than 20 minutes at a time, and that is in areas that are only moderate traffic.
There used to be some “simulators” of Air Traffic Controlling. I believe an old one was called TRACON. I don’t know if it is still around, or if any others are available nowadays. If they are, and you want to try your hand at being an ATC controller, be prepared to get humiliated at your incompetence.
I studied and tested for ATC in ‘82. I passed the exams with a combined 95/100, plus I rec’d 5 points each for being a Vet and having a service connected disability. Sadly, affirmative action prevented me from being hired as either a TCA or TRSA controller, which had different requirements. I wasn’t told until I complained, but I would have been hired and assigned to an Enroute Center position, had I checked it off on my application. Didn’t matter by that time, as I had reached the maximum age for new hires, 34.
Such is life.
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