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How U.S. allies nearly won Vietnam War
WorldNetDaily ^ | August 17, 2009 | WorldNetDaily

Posted on 08/15/2009 7:34:58 PM PDT by RobinMasters

In his recent appearance on the Roger Hedgecock Show, Richard Botkin, author of "Ride the Thunder," shares the heroic and largely untold story of how South Vietnamese warriors and their American counterparts almost won the Vietnam War.

Hedgecock's nationally syndicated daily radio show can be heard in 75+ markets and on XM Satellite. His show streams live on WND from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. Eastern.

Marine Capt. Botkin toured battlefields in Vietnam and has chronicled the Vietnamese military organization called TQLC, whose members, with their American advisers, "fought, bled, endured and triumphed against communism."

Botkin's book tells a new Vietnam history with a unique twist – a happy and inspiring ending. It has been an instant hit with booksellers and reviewers, Vietnam vets and the South Vietnamese community in the U.S.

In his interview with Hedgecock, Botkin said his goal in writing the book was to "honor and affirm the warrior" with a story about brave men facing tough times and overcoming in the face of extreme adversity.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: booktour; botkin; ridethethunder; vietnam; vietnamwar

1 posted on 08/15/2009 7:35:01 PM PDT by RobinMasters
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To: RobinMasters

Bookmarking this one. Looking forward to reading the comments. Thanks for the post RobinMasters.


2 posted on 08/15/2009 7:41:03 PM PDT by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: RobinMasters


This 'Nam vet will buy it! We were kickin' @$$ when I left, whatever Uncle Walter said!

Lamh Foistenach Abu!
3 posted on 08/15/2009 7:42:50 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN 1969. St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: RobinMasters

My research tells me that we should have won the Vietnam War in 1968 when the USA kicked their butts around and chased them back to the north during the TET offensive.

Our military was so much better than theirs. It was equal to a game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and the TCU horned frogs,

but politicians wouldn’t let our guys win the war,

am I right ?


4 posted on 08/15/2009 7:44:32 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative (Sarah Palin in 2012 !)
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To: LuvFreeRepublic

5 posted on 08/15/2009 7:48:09 PM PDT by RobinMasters
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To: ConorMacNessa

Amen bro


6 posted on 08/15/2009 7:48:16 PM PDT by doc1019 (Obama? Not so much.)
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To: RobinMasters; Neil E. Wright; dcwusmc
Click the 'Bump' Graphic
Click Here

7 posted on 08/15/2009 7:48:48 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: RobinMasters

Great picture! It’s going on my Facebook page, if you don’t mind.


8 posted on 08/15/2009 7:50:24 PM PDT by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: ConorMacNessa

A Vietnam vet friend, who recently passed away, had a bumper sticker on his truck that said, “We Were Winning When I Left.”

Joe’s finances were a mess when he died. He owed everybody money and his Polish girlfriend didn’t want him to be buried at Lincoln National Cemetery near Joliet, IL (she can’t drive). Thankfully, Catholic Charities came through with a burial plot. I was able to contribute about 20% and an American flag from OIF Marines. I thought that was a nice touch - new veterans saluting a past veteran.


9 posted on 08/15/2009 7:52:54 PM PDT by 12Gauge687 (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
My dad was a Thud pilot July 67 - May 68 and I have done a lot of research on what these pilots were able to do and not do. If the government hadn't tied the Thud pilots hands behind their backs, we would have seen a different result in Vietnam. Those pilots could have completely cut off the troops and supplies moving south and with what you are saying about kicking butts and moving them north, it would have been a different story. God bless our Military, the greatest in the world, then, now and in the future.
10 posted on 08/15/2009 7:56:13 PM PDT by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

You are correct! When the VC were wiped out during the Tet, North Vietnam had no choice but to use their own army. If we had continued supporting South Vietnam especially with air power, the South would be free today.


11 posted on 08/15/2009 7:56:13 PM PDT by meatloaf (Obama, Obozo ... what's the difference?)
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To: 12Gauge687
Good job, 12gauge!

Lamh Foistenach Abu!
12 posted on 08/15/2009 7:56:24 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN 1969. St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: 12Gauge687

Very nice on your part.

I think LBJ’s major interest was line his pockets with his fence company, his part ownersship in KBR that did all the construction and TX defense companies.

Nixon and Gen. Creighton Abrams almost turn the tide except the scum left with connections to the Viet Cong in Canada sabatoged the effort. That scum included Kerry, Teddy Kennedy, Jane Fonda, Cronkite and other vermin.

Vietnam was JFK/LBJ’s war but our guys were out to win and so was Nixon.

LBJ left office the second wealthiest President in history. H Washington was a billionaire adjusted for inflation. Nixon was broke when he left office. He never made nickel off the war.


13 posted on 08/15/2009 7:59:21 PM PDT by Frantzie (Lou Dobbs - American Hero! Bill O'Reilly = Liar)
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To: LuvFreeRepublic

Please feel free to do so. :-)


14 posted on 08/15/2009 8:00:53 PM PDT by RobinMasters
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To: RobinMasters
"What we still don't understand is why you Americans stopped the bombing of Hanoi. You had us on the ropes. If you had pressed us a little harder, just for another day or two, we were ready to surrender! It was the same at the battles of TET. You defeated us! We knew it, and we thought you knew it. But we were elated to notice your media were definitely helping us. They were causing more disruption in America than we could in the battlefields. We were ready to surrender. You had won!"
-often attributed to General Giap, North Vietnam
15 posted on 08/15/2009 8:14:04 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: LuvFreeRepublic

dead on the money LVR. I saw a history channel(?) program not to long ago with quite a few interviews/discussions with some of those brave pilots that made it back and what they described regarding quite a few of their orders and what they were allowed, (and not allowed) to do was nothing short of complete insanity imho. It made me furious to listen to what those men went thru, talk about your hands being tied is right. sure there were concerns of the USSR and escalation fears involved but DAMN...........your father has my thanks for his service those many years ago.


16 posted on 08/15/2009 8:17:47 PM PDT by bobby.223
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To: RobinMasters
In the same vein, I'd recommend Lewis Sorley's A Better War. It chronicles the war as conducted by the late Gen. Creighton Abrams, and documents its best-kept secret: we won. By 1973 we had utterly destroyed the Vietcong, and had neutralized the NVA's ability to conduct offensive warfare. On top of our battlefield success, Nixon's '72 Linebacker raids caused deep damage to the communist regime leaving Hanoi "on the ropes". Thus, the '73 accords.

The loss of Vietnam came only later, after we had essentially left the field and ceased to support the RVN logistically. Given that support, it's entirely possible that the RVN might still exist. If only Watergate hadn't happened...

17 posted on 08/15/2009 8:19:59 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: smoothsailing

How many died because the media were helping them and the idiots in DC were preventing our military from getting the job done? UGH!


18 posted on 08/15/2009 8:22:18 PM PDT by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: B-Chan

Always remember who was responsible that monumental betrayal of our soldiers and our allies, one of the worst in human history: the media-industrial complex and its political arm, the Democrat Party.

Never forget, never forgive.


19 posted on 08/15/2009 8:25:54 PM PDT by atomic conspiracy (Victory in Iraq: Worst defeat for activist media since Goebbels shot himself.)
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To: bobby.223
Thanks for your kind words about my dad. Just before my dad got to Vietnam, they calculated that a Thud pilot had zero chance of completing his 100 missions and going home. The odds got better and my dad beat the odds. Unbelievable what they were up against. And they knew about the fears of escalation with USSR and China before they committed our military. Absolute BS and we need to make sure it never happens again.
20 posted on 08/15/2009 8:30:27 PM PDT by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: RobinMasters

Calling it a night. Will check back in the AM.

Since I am a USAF Colonel’s daughter, here is one of my favorite videos.

A tribute to the USAF:

http://www.media-magik.com/usaf.html


21 posted on 08/15/2009 8:39:37 PM PDT by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: LuvFreeRepublic
My dad was a Thud pilot July 67 - May 68 and I have done a lot of research on what these pilots were able to do and not do.

What is his view of "Thud Ridge" by Col. Jack Broughton? I think that book gave an excellent picture of the absurd restrictions under which the F-105s had to operate.

22 posted on 08/15/2009 8:47:52 PM PDT by Interesting Times (For the truth about "swift boating" see ToSetTheRecordStraight.com)
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To: Interesting Times
He said “Thud Ridge” was dead on. My dad lost friends because of the restrictions and it didn't have to happen. Another good read is “When Thunder Rolled” by Ed Rasimus. It is a first hand account of what was going through a pilot's mind as he made his way to training, his first mission over the infamous Route Pac Six and completion of his 100 missions. Good stuff. Also if you search for and go to “Craig Bakers F-105 site” you will find lots of good stuff on the plane, the missions and the pilots.
23 posted on 08/15/2009 8:56:54 PM PDT by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: LuvFreeRepublic

Thanks. Broughton also wrote a followup twenty years later titled “Going Downtown.” It’s worth reading as well.


24 posted on 08/15/2009 9:00:38 PM PDT by Interesting Times (For the truth about "swift boating" see ToSetTheRecordStraight.com)
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To: RobinMasters

The U.S. and the SVN were winning the VN war. The Democrat Congress lost it all when they chose to eliminate funding for continued supplies of ammo, etc. to the SVN AFTER they forced the withdrawal of U.S. force. We would have won it much earlier if the left had not forced an end to the bombing of the North.


25 posted on 08/15/2009 9:06:18 PM PDT by Rembrandt
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

“..am I right ?”

It was a larger war than just the Tet offensive but we did put a major hurt on them. The biggest blow of the Tet Offensive was Uncle Walter convincing the hippies and their lefty mommies that the U.S. had lost the Tet effort although we had a decisive win. Walter Cronkite did a complete spin job to the detriment of the U.S. troops.


26 posted on 08/15/2009 9:11:04 PM PDT by Rembrandt
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To: smoothsailing

I’ve never been able to find proof that Giap said that. I’d still like to find out if that came out of an interview with him. I didn’t find it in the book he wrote.


27 posted on 08/15/2009 9:24:41 PM PDT by meatloaf (Obama, Obozo ... what's the difference?)
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To: ConorMacNessa

Hey, Doc! How are ya? This is an encouraging thread... Guess I’ll hafta find that book! But when I left, according to Uncle Wally, we had lost the year before!


28 posted on 08/15/2009 9:36:22 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: meatloaf

I don’t know if he said it or not, but it’s nonetheless true. Linebacker II hurt the commies, badly. It was a full-on, World War II scale saturation attack, and even though the first part of the campaign was poorly planned, resulting in lost aircraft and needless death, the campaign as a whole was a body blow to North Vietnam. By the time the last raid occurred (99 B-52s, plus a large number of tactical aircraft), Hanoi was on the ropes. We had leveled pretty much every logistical and industrial site in North Vietnam, including electric power stations, POL and petroleum storage, marshaling yards, freight terminals, warehouses, munitions dumps, dockyards, and so forth. A week or two more bombing at that level would have finished off the commies.


29 posted on 08/15/2009 9:37:25 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: RobinMasters

My wife and I know people from South Vietnam who now live in our community. These are people who survived horrible carnage in refugee camps. They experienced hardship very few of us born in this country are capable of imagining. The friends we know who made it here from South Vietnam are some of the hardest working most patriotic conservative Americans we know.

We have another friend who was my hang glider instructor; he was a Green Beret and was deployed as an adviser early in the war. He told me of the tremendous courage and heroism of the young Vietnamese men that he trained and helped lead in battle. These were amazing stories. I will be looking for Richard Botkin’s book.


30 posted on 08/15/2009 9:46:54 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: RobinMasters
I am an Army brat. My Dad was a Special Forces Advisor in Viet Nam circa 1960 - 61.In 1969 when I joined the USAF, he steered me away from the Army & Marines because he felt they were being sacrificed for political expediency by politicians instead of allowing the military to prosecute the war as it saw fit.He blamed Kennedy in large part for allowing Diem to be assassinated and thereby inviting aggression by the North and Johnson for trying to play general - totally mismanaging the war. The US military never lost a major battle & Tet was a complete defeat for the VC & NVA.Our politicians once again snatched defeat from the jaws of victory as they continue to do today.
31 posted on 08/15/2009 10:08:12 PM PDT by Apercu ("A man's character is his fate" - Heraclitus)
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To: meatloaf
I've never seen an original source for the quote.

But Giap was a ruthless and brilliant General, and he would have been well aware that the reporting of the American media and the American domestic dissent it stoked was having an impact on American political decisions concerning the war, thus aiding his efforts.

With that in mind, even if Giap never uttered those exact words, or ever wrote them down somewhere, he would certainly see the truth in them, even if his own code of honor made it impossible for him to admit it.

32 posted on 08/15/2009 10:20:09 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: RobinMasters; shibumi
God bless our men who fought in Vietnam.

I grew up watching the Vietnam War on the 7:00 pm News, with Cronkite and the like.

Our men didn't nearly win the war, they DID their part, but the politicians and the MSM undermined them and stole victory from their grasps.

The Politicians and the MSM of that era have the blood of Americas finest sons on their hands.

May they both suffer their portion of the fires of hell.

33 posted on 08/15/2009 10:22:40 PM PDT by Semper Mark (ObamaCare: A Funeral Directors delight.)
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To: RobinMasters
As bad as Obama is, it would have been worse if Kerry won in 2004 because he would of made Iraq another Vietnam.

Unfortunately Obama still may do so.

34 posted on 08/15/2009 10:35:53 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (...and never forget that!)
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To: RobinMasters; ConorMacNessa; Markos33; Salamander
MACV Team 14, 1970 - 71. I never felt or will feel that we were wrong, or that we were defeated. It was scum like those in power today that lost the war.


35 posted on 08/15/2009 10:41:37 PM PDT by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
Yep, pretty much. Missions originated in Washington. Also keep in mind that we were under rules of engagement. When you have ROE, it encumbers the fighting forces making total victory very difficult.

AS we used to say : "It don't mean nuthin".

36 posted on 08/15/2009 10:51:47 PM PDT by afnamvet
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To: RobinMasters; atomic conspiracy; ConorMacNessa; 12Gauge687; LuvFreeRepublic; meatloaf; Frantzie; ...
"Never forget, never forgive."

Words I live by...

We were paid to stop the communist aggression, which we did. Some paying the ultimate price...

Now they want us to lay down, do nothing, and allow that same communist organization to destroy Our Nation!

They have no idea what "Payback" truly means if they continue down this path of destruction...

37 posted on 08/15/2009 11:20:28 PM PDT by JDoutrider
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To: smoothsailing

I think there’s a possibility it came from an interview with Giap. There was one writer for whom I tried to find contact info. Never was able to find it.


38 posted on 08/15/2009 11:32:14 PM PDT by meatloaf (Obama, Obozo ... what's the difference?)
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To: shibumi

thank you for your service. I will never forget what you and men such as yourself did for this country.


39 posted on 08/16/2009 12:08:50 AM PDT by bobby.223
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To: afnamvet

There are ALWAYS Rules of Engagement. Sometimes they are real simple (and I like simple), such as “Go there. Kill everything that moves. Do not use nukes. Come home.” Other times (like Vietnam), we have a braying jackass like LBJ who must PERSONALLY approve each day’s bombing lists and get LOTS of our brothers killed for no good reason!!!

DC Wright
USMC Phu Bai, 1969


40 posted on 08/16/2009 1:11:40 AM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

NVA and VC won the war by simple fact:
Did not wanted to stop fighting. Period.

Your teacher is pretty wreong. You see, if US and allies could not have won the war in 50% of nowdays Vietnam, How would they have won the war if they captured 100% of nowdays Vietnam?

Just look at Afghanistan. Was it occupied? Yes. 100% occupied? Yes. Won? No.

Yes. NVA could have ben defeated, but VC would spread across entire nation.


41 posted on 08/16/2009 2:51:55 AM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: meatloaf

There was a series of interviews, with Giap, that I vaguely remember seeing in either the late 80’s or early 90’s on one of the alphabets. The gist of one section of them was that very comment. I cannot remember if he said that precisely but he did allude to it. Since the interview was conducted by the alphabets, I am certain they would have edited that type of comment out. I do remember feeling a sense of vindication for what all the nam’ guys did and went through (I was too young). We discussed it on active duty quite a bit. A lot of anger towards the press monkeys at that time. We hated them with a flipping purple passion.


42 posted on 08/16/2009 4:58:41 AM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: dcwusmc
Hi DCW - that was the "conventional wisdom" and remains so today.

Lamh Foistenach Abu!
43 posted on 08/16/2009 11:26:11 AM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN 1969. St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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