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Texas public schools required to teach Bible this year
KLTV ^ | Aug 14, 2009 | Sara Story

Posted on 08/16/2009 10:37:37 PM PDT by kingattax

WHITEHOUSE, TX (KLTV) - The school year is almost here, and if literature of the Bible is not already offered in your child's school, it will be this fall.

Books are a common sight in classrooms around the nation, but the Bible is one book that is not. Come this fall, a Texas law says all public schools must offer information relating to the Bible in their curriculum.

"By the end of the year, what they begin to realize is that it is pervasive. You can't get away from it. The kids came back and were like 'It's everywhere,'" said John Keeling, the social studies chair at Whitehouse High School. Whitehouse already offers a Bible elective. "The purpose of a course like this isn't even really to get kids to believe it per say. It is just to appreciate the profound impact that it has had on our history and on our government," said Keeling.

The law actually passed in 2007, but this will be the first school year it is enforced because the bill says, "The provisions of this act pertaining to a school district do not take effect until the 2009-2010 school year."

This has gained mixed reactions from East Texans. "I think it is a good thing because a lot of kids don't have that experience, and they already want to take prayer out of school as it is-- and you see where our kids are ending up!" said Tyler resident Laura Tucker.

Tyler resident Havis Tatum disagress with Tucker. He said, "I don't want anybody teaching their religious beliefs to my child unless they want to send their child to my house and let me teach them my religious views. There is no difference."

School officials tell us schools haven't enforced this law because of confusion over the bill's wording and lack of state funding.

For now, each school district must find a way to fill the requirement before the seats are filled with students.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: biblestudy; diversity; religiouseducation
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1 posted on 08/16/2009 10:37:37 PM PDT by kingattax
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To: kingattax

I don’t want them teaching religion in public schools, because I sure don’t want them teaching Hindu or the Koran.

For what it’s worth, teaching Bible in Texas schools is really nothing new. My son, who graduated high school in the mid-90s, had to study the Book of Ruth in literature class in a large public high school. They used King James Version, which meant it was like reading Shakespeare to those kids who didn’t have a church background. (Many suffered, but he sailed through it.)


2 posted on 08/16/2009 10:43:19 PM PDT by Jedidah ("Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana)
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To: kingattax
> "It is just to appreciate the profound impact that it has had on our history and on our government"

Uh, huh. Somehow I don't think presentinging the Bible as "literature" is quite what they had in mind.

IMO, any American whose education does not include familiarization with the profound cultural effect of the Judeo-Christian Bible has missed arguably the single most influential document in our culture.

Likewise, a "comparative religions" course can be stimulating and edifying.

I keep my Bible handy. My KJV is a little dog-eared from all the times I've referred to it in discussions with my daughter.

However, teaching public school from the Bible is something else entirely. And I have to guess that's really what they have in mind here. This is not, IMO, a good idea. It opens the door to all manner of religious teaching from many other religions, and somehow I don't think that's what is intended. Back to the drawing board, guys.


3 posted on 08/16/2009 10:48:36 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: kingattax

it’s part of basic cultural literacy


4 posted on 08/16/2009 10:49:35 PM PDT by ari-freedom (Obama acted stupidly...and that's after knowing all the facts.)
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To: kingattax
Most US citizens have NO IDEA that the Bible was the Main textbook in ALL of America's schools - for almost all of this nation's first 100 years.

Worse yet - they have NO KNOWLEDGE of the fact that our form of government was taken - almost completely from the Bible.

(Many of our nation's founders spoke at length about that fact.)

5 posted on 08/16/2009 10:49:53 PM PDT by Ron C. (Wake up - Go see how it really is - then speak from knowledge)
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To: kingattax
This is likely to be awkward in implementation. The ACLU will go out and do a little barratry, scouting for people willing to sue on grounds that their sectarian particularism is offended by whatever comments are offered on Biblical content and moral injunctions.

The big split is going to be Calvinists vs. Jews vs. sneaky atheists pretending to be scientific materialists vs. everybody else in Christendom, vs. the Mormons.

The ACLU will bait the Calvinists (Presbyterians and Baptists) because their churches contain numbers of "witnesses" who are willing to get into atheists' faces.

They'll try to "prove" Baptist antisemitism by baiting some junior Bible scholar somewhere to comment on "His blood be upon us" and other New Testament favorites that make Jewish rabbis upset when they're tossed around in public. Then we'll hear from the atheists, as the ACLU shops their lawsuit around.

6 posted on 08/16/2009 10:50:41 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: dayglored

well, public school is a problem no matter what it teaches


7 posted on 08/16/2009 10:51:36 PM PDT by ari-freedom (Obama acted stupidly...and that's after knowing all the facts.)
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To: Jedidah
> They used King James Version, which meant it was like reading Shakespeare to those kids who didn’t have a church background.

The KJV sings to me, its gorgeous and familiar phrasings ring in my ear and send chills down my spine.

It's all about what you grew up with, I guess.

The "modern" versions drive me up a wall. I suppose those same folks would "modernize" Shakespeare, too, in the name of better comprehension. What a load of hooey.

Granted, I haven't taken the time to learn Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, to read the originals (or what passes for them), but the KVJ has been the English "real deal" for centuries and I will have mine with me until I shuffle off this mortal coil.

8 posted on 08/16/2009 10:54:49 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: kingattax

Opening the door...???

9 posted on 08/16/2009 10:57:10 PM PDT by taraytarah
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Jedidah

You don’t want them teaching Hindu or the Koran?

Have you been to a public school lately?

News flash they already are.

Heck my Freshman year of High School, they had the Wiccan Bible in my Lit. Class.

Do I believe the Bible should be taught as Literature/ Not really, but I have a feeling those who “need” to learn the ways of our Lord, won’t see it as Literature at all.

Heck, you knows how many kids may be turned onto the right path by this.


11 posted on 08/16/2009 10:59:12 PM PDT by Shadowstrike (Be polite, Be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Ron C.
> Worse yet - they have NO KNOWLEDGE of the fact that our form of government was taken - almost completely from the Bible. (Many of our nation's founders spoke at length about that fact.)

I must ask you to supply some references for that claim. While it's certainly true that the Founders drew general inspiration and spiritual sustenance from the Bible and their beliefs, I know of no instance where "our form of government" (tri-part organization, bicameral congress, or anything else laid out in the Constitution) was specified as coming "almost completely from the Bible".

Please elucidate. Links to quotes from the writings of the Founders, such as the Federalist Papers, would be great.

13 posted on 08/16/2009 10:59:17 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: ari-freedom
> well, public school is a problem no matter what it teaches

Yeah, there is that....

14 posted on 08/16/2009 11:01:42 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: kingattax

The good news is it is a public school so nobody will learn or remember anything!


15 posted on 08/16/2009 11:02:43 PM PDT by Minus_The_Bear
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To: ari-freedom
it’s part of basic cultural literacy

Basic cultural literacy is normally not allowed in government schools because the liberal elite prefers ignorant peasants.

16 posted on 08/16/2009 11:08:27 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: taraytarah

opening the door to what? That door was already opened a long time ago...


17 posted on 08/16/2009 11:09:42 PM PDT by ari-freedom (Obama acted stupidly...and that's after knowing all the facts.)
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To: kingattax

Good.

Upset the atheists.

I’m so tired of these godless people.

They’re as bad as Obama.


18 posted on 08/16/2009 11:14:32 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: dayglored

Would you prefer Islam?


19 posted on 08/16/2009 11:15:36 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: ari-freedom
> it’s part of basic cultural literacy

I agree it should be (and was for a long time). But I fear it is going the way of all other forms of literacy...

20 posted on 08/16/2009 11:15:49 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: nmh
> Would you prefer Islam?

[confusion] What in Heaven's name does that mean? You must have misinterpreted my comment rather profoundly.

21 posted on 08/16/2009 11:17:40 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored

If form rather than content is what “sings to you” ... beware!


22 posted on 08/16/2009 11:30:23 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (When did it become the Democrat You-Shut-Up-And-Listen-To-Me Tour?)
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To: dayglored

You won’t find a republican form of government represented anywhere in Scripture. It’s just isn’t there to see; I understand some people want to see it, but they have to force their vision onto the text.


23 posted on 08/16/2009 11:37:03 PM PDT by eclecticEel (The Most High rules in the kingdom of men ... and sets over it the basest of men.)
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To: dayglored

I’m referring to my own memory from a lifetime (68 years) of reading. American Political Writings of the Founding Era, and many other history books I’ve read substantiate the claim that God gave the world an example of human government – that of the nation of Israel. They had a Senate, and the equivalent of a Congress, and they had a body of law, unequaled in the entire world – the facts of which were spoken and written about extensively – by many – during the Founding Era. Samuel Langdon is one I often refer to.

The written history of the formation of our Constitution tells us that the Bible was referred to and talked about during the writing of it – specifically with reference to the ‘Biblical example.’


24 posted on 08/16/2009 11:46:37 PM PDT by Ron C. (Wake up - Go see how it really is - then speak from knowledge)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
> If form rather than content is what “sings to you” ... beware!

Oh, the content sings too. :)

I meant that (in the context of the KJV's admittedly archaic language), I was raised with the KJV's language and so it is "right" to me.

I grant that the more "modern" translations are easier on the modern ear. The important thing from a religious perspective is the content; the language is only the vehicle.

25 posted on 08/16/2009 11:48:51 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: eclecticEel

Try to have a free, republican society absent moral principle and the restraint on licentious behavior that comes from sincere religion and we will see how well your experiment succeeds.

It might well look like current American society.


26 posted on 08/16/2009 11:51:15 PM PDT by srweaver (Never Forget the Judicial Homicide of Terri Schiavo)
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To: dayglored

King James version is my favorite, too. And it is impossible to have an adult grip on western literature without knowing your Bible.

I’ll admit it is impossible to have an adult grip on middle eastern literature, what there is of it, with knowing the Koran, as well.

I just don’t happen to WANT to delve into middle eastern lit.


27 posted on 08/16/2009 11:59:50 PM PDT by Marie2 (The second mouse gets the cheese.)
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To: kingattax
I have a copy of a 1959 copy of the study of the Bible from a Dallas school. We have studied the Bible and it's impact on America and the world from the foundation of the country. The whole reason for public schools in the first place was to teach people to read the Bible.

The Bible has been and remains the number one best seller of all time, year after year. To ignore it, even as a work of literature, would be a crime, IMHO. I don't see how you can ignore the greatest book ever written just because you don't want to follow it's precepts. No one is saying it's true, they are just recognizing it's importance on civilization. They teach the Koran in school right now, but as far as I know, they haven't said you must believe one line in it or you will have your head removed. One can read the Bible and not be converted. There are many lies and half truths out there from ignorance, not from true belief. If one is going to argue for or against the Bible, one should have at least read it and been taught by a qualified teacher.

One of the biggest lies in today's culture today is our country wasn't founded by Christians. History can only be taught correctly by realizing the Pilgrims were Christians, the Puritans were Christians, and many other faiths that crossed the Atlantic were fleeing persecution of their faith. Every colony, every village, was Christian to the core in all their writings. To deny that is just outrageous. Wouldn't it be nice to at least read the document our founders cherished?

As a child, we had prayer every morning at my school and many of us looked out the window, threw spitballs, and bothered our neighbor while it was going on. No one was forced to "convert" to have prayer every morning, but we knew our forefathers felt Christianity was essential for citizenship in America. I was born again at age 43, but that was my personal relationship with God and had nothing to do with being "converted" at school. Reading the Koran wouldn't convert me to Islam and certainly reading the Bible doesn't force anything on anybody other than rounding out your American education.

28 posted on 08/17/2009 12:01:15 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: dayglored

dayglored, I believe our separation of powers is drawn from the Presbyterian form of church government. Sorry, I have no cites. I am just well aware of Presbyterian and American government and they are very similar.


29 posted on 08/17/2009 12:01:20 AM PDT by Marie2 (The second mouse gets the cheese.)
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To: eclecticEel

“You won’t find a republican form of government represented anywhere in Scripture. It’s just isn’t there to see; I understand some people want to see it, but they have to force their vision onto the text.”

I’ll disagree there. In the NT, the people were to elect qualified men from among themselves. These men (called elders or bishops) handled the day to day issues of the church. They met in local councils and councils that covered the entire church. There was no pure democracy, but a representative government based upon a rule of law.

Very similar to our representative government, rule of law, and our courts of appeal.


30 posted on 08/17/2009 12:03:52 AM PDT by Marie2 (The second mouse gets the cheese.)
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To: dayglored

No offense meant to whom the Authorized Version is their familiar bible from childhood. I do agree that any Christian who can read should have one or more “good” translations to refer to. The translation philosophy of the New American Standard, for example, although it produces wooden text a lot of the time, can be counted on for accuracy by a modern reader. The AV and Shakespeare are so beautiful to English literary mavens largely because they shaped that very language.


31 posted on 08/17/2009 12:08:14 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (When did it become the Democrat You-Shut-Up-And-Listen-To-Me Tour?)
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To: Marie2
> dayglored, I believe our separation of powers is drawn from the Presbyterian form of church government. Sorry, I have no cites. I am just well aware of Presbyterian and American government and they are very similar.

Thanks Marie2. I admit to having very little knowledge of the Presbyterian polity, so I looked at the Wikipedia page on Presbyterian church governance and to be honest I don't think I can read and absorb it all, starting at 3AM tonight. But I am very intrigued by your comment and thank you for this lead, which I'll follow this week.

32 posted on 08/17/2009 12:11:33 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
> The AV and Shakespeare are so beautiful to English literary mavens largely because they shaped that very language.

That is an excellent point!

33 posted on 08/17/2009 12:13:33 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored

There are schools all over the US that have our American kids learning role playing of the Muslim religions, and students in many American schools learning Satanist Doctrine and every other religion of the world, but you mention the Bible(the Word of God—any translation) and they freak out!!! They can pray to Mohammed, but God...forget it!!! Why is all that okay?


34 posted on 08/17/2009 12:22:30 AM PDT by prayin4_swcb (....A nation divided against itself, cannot stand.)
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To: Marie2
> ...it is impossible to have an adult grip on western literature without knowing your Bible.

Absolutely true!

With that, I must bow out and get some sleep... see y'all tomorrow!

35 posted on 08/17/2009 12:23:28 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: prayin4_swcb
> Why is all that okay?

Well, if you ask me, it's not okay.

There's much that is missing, and much that is superfluous, in current public school curricula.

I must beg off, sorry; I'm up way past my bedtime. I'll try to rejoin tomorrow night if the thread is still active...

36 posted on 08/17/2009 12:26:17 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: kingattax
Thank G_d!

Wonder why society has DEVO'ed?

We took the pledge, ten commandments, and citizenship out of the classrooms, and let the kids listen to the Brown Shirt Media.

What do you expect? Mozart?

37 posted on 08/17/2009 1:36:05 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Ifanationexpects tobe ignorantandfree,inastateofcivilization,itexpects whatneverwas andnever will be)
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To: kingattax
Oh, no! Here come those evil Christians!

Hide your children! < /sarc>

38 posted on 08/17/2009 1:47:22 AM PDT by OrangeHoof (YES WE CAN have a Depression.)
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To: dayglored

“...to read the originals (or what passes for them),..”

What do you mean, ‘or what passes for them’?


39 posted on 08/17/2009 2:43:52 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NO Foreign Nationals as our President!!)
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To: kingattax

fta... “ Whitehouse already offers a Bible elective. “The purpose of a course like this isn’t even really to get kids to believe it per say. It is just to appreciate the profound impact that it has had on our history and on our government,” said Keeling.”


It’s only an ELECTIVE course, so all of the folks opposing should not be getting their panties in a wad. The Texas ruling only said the schools had to offer courses that related to the Bible... it did not mandate that all students had to take the courses.


40 posted on 08/17/2009 3:08:05 AM PDT by octex
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To: dayglored; Ron C.
RON C. WROTE: "Worse yet - they have NO KNOWLEDGE of the fact that our form of government was taken - almost completely from the Bible. (Many of our nation's founders spoke at length about that fact.)"

DAYGLORED RESPONDED: "I must ask you to supply some references for that claim. While it's certainly true that the Founders drew general inspiration and spiritual sustenance from the Bible and their beliefs, I know of no instance where "our form of government" (tri-part organization, bicameral congress, or anything else laid out in the Constitution) was specified as coming "almost completely from the Bible"."

DAYGLORED ADDED: "Please elucidate. Links to quotes from the writings of the Founders, such as the Federalist Papers, would be great."

==============================================

To save you a LOT of time, you might want to start your search for information and DVDs at http://www.wallbuilders.com/

Wall Builders' founder is David Barton. He is EXTREMELY KNOWLEDGEABLE about the religious foundation of our country. His bio is at http://www.wallbuilders.com/SCHbioDB.asp

Another site to check out is Ken Hamm's site http://www.answersingenesis.org/

I own several hundred dollars of books and DVDs from both sites and have met and talked to both men. They both know their subjects EXTREMELY well and offer WONDERFUL DVDs to CLEARLY explain and demonstrate their positions.

41 posted on 08/17/2009 3:21:27 AM PDT by Concerned (My Motto: It's NEVER wrong to do what's RIGHT!!!)
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To: kingattax

Bad idea. First of all, who’s “version” of the bible? Baptist? Catholic? Jehovah’s Witness? LDS? Many different views there. Second, it’ll open the door for teaching other religions in public schools.


42 posted on 08/17/2009 4:31:19 AM PDT by al_c (Our government is not a spectator sport.)
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To: dayglored

Oh, I know. KJV is the scripture of my childhood, and I know much of it by heart.

God’s Word can melt a heart, no matter the language.

However, as much as I love the KJV, I don’t quibble over which translation is best. One matter of faith is that the Lord will not let his Word be extinguished, and I believe that a seeker can find the narrow path with any number of translations.

I’ve been very grateful for NIV in teaching small children, and I remind myself that it was all originally in tongues that I cannot understand.


43 posted on 08/17/2009 5:02:35 AM PDT by Jedidah ("Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana)
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To: SatinDoll
>> “...to read the originals (or what passes for them),..”

> What do you mean, ‘or what passes for them’?

I didn't mean anything specific by my comment. I'm not a Biblican scholar, but I have read that there have been arguments among such scholars over the years about the authenticity of some of the records and early writings. If I had the time and language ability, I'd want to read them myself; alas, not in this lifetime...

44 posted on 08/17/2009 7:09:44 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: al_c

The Baptists have their own version of the bible?


45 posted on 08/17/2009 8:42:44 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney (guns)"instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people")
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To: ansel12
The Baptists have their own version of the bible?

As opposed to Catholic ... yes. If you don't like that I used Baptist in my example, simply insert your protestant faith of choice in there.

46 posted on 08/17/2009 8:48:46 AM PDT by al_c (Our government is not a spectator sport.)
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To: al_c

No, just say Protestant. Since we are still a Protestant nation I don’t think that using the standard King James version of the bible in most schools would be a big deal, especially in Texas.

The King James bible has been the bible of choice for 400 years in America.

Usually this claim that it is impossible to settle on a bible (using the Catholic version if a school district chooses) is brought up by liberals trying to fight Christianity.


47 posted on 08/17/2009 9:10:34 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney (guns)"instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people")
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To: ansel12
No, just say Protestant. Since we are still a Protestant nation I don’t think that using the standard King James version of the bible in most schools would be a big deal, especially in Texas.

I don't think one could just say "protestant" as many of the faiths that you could put in that category interpret many passages differently. Very differently in some of those cases.

Usually this claim that it is impossible to settle on a bible (using the Catholic version if a school district chooses) is brought up by liberals trying to fight Christianity.

Now hold on just a minute there, pal. Who you callin' "liberal?" ;o)

48 posted on 08/17/2009 9:46:18 AM PDT by al_c (Our government is not a spectator sport.)
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To: al_c

Protestants use the King James bible, how complex do you think that a generalized school lesson is?

I imagine that the lessons could use the Catholic version or the Protestant version and teach everything that they need to for the course.

You are striving to blow smoke and try to turn this into something complicated that suddenly is beyond human abilities to handle, I don’t think it is and it seems that Texas doesn’t either.


49 posted on 08/17/2009 9:51:38 AM PDT by ansel12 (Romney (guns)"instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people")
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To: dayglored

I always saw it as a tacit admission the rest was bunkum, therefore it could be treated in the same way as Greek religion myths are discussed, but Christianity was special as it was correct and not to be casually torn apart the way you could take apart stories about Zeus and Hera.


50 posted on 08/17/2009 9:52:50 AM PDT by Fire_on_High (One Big Ass Mistake America!)
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