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Voting with Their Feet (2000000 Americans Leave America)
National review ^ | 08/06/2009 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 08/18/2009 6:04:33 AM PDT by sr4402

If that's correct, I can't think events in 2009 will do anything to diminish the flow. What I wonder is: Where did those 2 million go? Britons, Canadians, Europeans, etc, who seek "greener pastures" generally wind up in the U.S. For most of us immigrants, this is the last stop on the tour: There's nowhere else to go. So where on the planet do a couple of million Americans go to find somewhere "greener"?

(Excerpt) Read more at corner.nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atlas; atlasshrugged; emigration; marksteyn; shrugged; steyn; taxes
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Do you Think Taxes may have had something to do with it?
1 posted on 08/18/2009 6:04:34 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: sr4402
In 1990, when Congress imposed a luxury tax on yachts, private airplanes and expensive automobiles, Sen. Ted Kennedy and then-Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell crowed publicly about how the rich would finally be paying their fair share of taxes. But yacht retailers reported a 77 percent drop in sales, and boat builders laid off an estimated 25,000 workers.

What happened? Kennedy and Mitchell simply assumed that the rich would behave the same way after the imposition of the luxury tax as they did before and the only difference would be more money in the government's coffers. They had a zero-elasticity vision of the world, namely that people do not respond to price changes. People always respond, and the only debatable issue is how much and over what period.

Walter Williams

2 posted on 08/18/2009 6:07:44 AM PDT by listenhillary (We became community organizers and Obama and the Statists get p*ssed off at us?)
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To: sr4402

Costa Rica is nice I hear


3 posted on 08/18/2009 6:08:01 AM PDT by y6162 (uish..)
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To: sr4402

The ones with all the money will be leaving.


4 posted on 08/18/2009 6:08:15 AM PDT by Sig Sauer P220 (Forget going Galt. Its time to go Braveheart.)
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To: sr4402
One of my associates emigrated to Australia. Last I heard, he was doing very well and felt very welcome there. He loves the place.

Another was a native New Zealander who simply went home. He had a green card but in his mind things had changed so much he gave up on being a naturalized citizen, which was his dream. Pretty bad when you think that NZ is by and large a fairly socialized country.

5 posted on 08/18/2009 6:08:40 AM PDT by chimera
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To: sr4402

Some of these are airline pilots. Pilot training in the rest of the world sucks. The US produces too many pilots for here so there are occasional opportunities overseas.


6 posted on 08/18/2009 6:09:13 AM PDT by Western Phil
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To: sr4402

How do they quantify people ‘leaving?’ Do they count those taking up citizenship in another country or those merely living outside of the US for a year or more?


7 posted on 08/18/2009 6:09:59 AM PDT by posterchild (Endowed by my Creator with certain unalienable rights.)
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To: Western Phil
The US produces too many pilots for here so there are occasional opportunities overseas.

So are you saying that American Pilots leave America for piloting positions overseas? Are their any benefits to that?

8 posted on 08/18/2009 6:11:27 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: sr4402

Since this happened in 2008 it is likely that the people leaving were liberal moonbats and people with BDS. To them Europe would be the ideal place to move. Freedom loving people really have nowhere else to go so we have to make a stand here and now.


9 posted on 08/18/2009 6:11:30 AM PDT by BubbaBasher ("Liberty will not long survive the total extinction of morals" - Sam Adams)
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To: sr4402

Where did they go? You have to read Ayn Rand to figure that out...


10 posted on 08/18/2009 6:12:13 AM PDT by GBA
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To: sr4402

Probably a number of them going back to the middle east.


11 posted on 08/18/2009 6:12:44 AM PDT by Chickensoup ("Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.")
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To: sr4402

Taxes may have something to do with it, though one’s destination probably depends on whether the person is in their ‘earning’ years or are retired. People still earning a paycheck may opt for somewhere more economically ‘free’
http://www.heritage.org/Index/Ranking.aspx whereas someone who is retired probably has a lot more latitude (no pun intended) in finding an agreeable place that is cheap to live in.


12 posted on 08/18/2009 6:13:49 AM PDT by posterchild (Endowed by my Creator with certain unalienable rights.)
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To: BubbaBasher

It is economic freedom shown at the link, but property rights are the foundation of freedom.

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking.aspx


13 posted on 08/18/2009 6:13:49 AM PDT by listenhillary (We became community organizers and Obama and the Statists get p*ssed off at us?)
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To: sr4402
It might have been Jim Rogers who said:

In 1807, smart young people moved to London.

In 1907, smart young people moved to New York.

In 2007, smart young people moved to Shanghai.

14 posted on 08/18/2009 6:13:53 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("If you cannot pick it up and run with it, you don't really own it." -- Robert Heinlein)
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To: sr4402

The wealthy saw the hand writing on the wall when the realized Obamessiah was going to be elected and they are leaving in droves for greener pastures to leave the middle class to clean up the mess and to pick up the tab that is left behind as a result of Obamessiahs socilist policies and utopian programs.


15 posted on 08/18/2009 6:14:57 AM PDT by Jmouse007 (hank you)
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To: listenhillary
They had a zero-elasticity vision of the world, namely that people do not respond to price changes.

Liberals have no idea how people respond to taxes and don't understand the law of diminishing returns. They don't understand that the rich have feet too.

Liberal Progressive Papers think Americans love taxes. That's one reason their readership are diminishing.

Liberals and Progressives are so Brilliant. They drive the rich away and expect things to get better.

/Sarcasm OFF

16 posted on 08/18/2009 6:15:04 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: listenhillary
then-Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell ...

Ironically, it was his own home state of Maine that took the brunt of this. His legislation pretty well sunk boatbuilding in the state.

I've had the displeasure of dealing with Mitchell on several occasions. He truly is an idiot.

17 posted on 08/18/2009 6:15:18 AM PDT by wbill
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To: sr4402

Ireland is the place to go from what I hear.


18 posted on 08/18/2009 6:18:48 AM PDT by frogjerk (tagline pulled for verification)
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To: sr4402
Eastern Russia, the new frontier...
19 posted on 08/18/2009 6:20:03 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: posterchild

Simultaneous post. I’ve never in my life seen that happen on FR.


20 posted on 08/18/2009 6:20:45 AM PDT by listenhillary (We became community organizers and Obama and the Statists get p*ssed off at us?)
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To: sr4402
ISN'T THIS A GREAT COUNTRY!!!!! If you don't like it you can LEAVE! That is freedom. I remember the Berlin Wall (I actually lived in Germany in the 70's though not close to the wall). People were killed trying to LEAVE their country. I'm sure this author wants to make out like America is so bad people are leaving. Whatever. America is so good that YOU CAN LEAVE if you don't like it.

God Bless America: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.

21 posted on 08/18/2009 6:22:31 AM PDT by politicalmerc (If Birthers are so silly, then why not show the BC and put them to shame?)
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To: sr4402
Are their any benefits to that?

Prior to 2008 US airline pilots had to retire at 60. Now they can retire at 65. I recall hearing that there were a lot of good pilots above those ages that got recruited to go to the middle east and India.
22 posted on 08/18/2009 6:22:46 AM PDT by posterchild (Endowed by my Creator with certain unalienable rights.)
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To: sr4402

Maybe they’re not filing.


23 posted on 08/18/2009 6:22:53 AM PDT by bgill (The evidence simply does not support the official position of the Obama administration)
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To: listenhillary

Wow, even to the same second. We must be psychotic!:)


24 posted on 08/18/2009 6:24:20 AM PDT by posterchild (Endowed by my Creator with certain unalienable rights.)
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To: sr4402

One of my neighbors went to Chile because his earnings there would be less but will go much farther than here. The job market for welders here is weak. Skilled labor will seek work elsewhere when the economy fails locally. Florida lost people, many/most are the construction workers who find themselves without work due to the housing bust. No new houses means, no plumbing workers, no tile worker, no cabinetry worker, no landscape worker, no rug installers, no sprinkler installers, no pool construction, no pavers, et.al. Lose jobs = lose people. You don’t have to be a Genius to figure that out.


25 posted on 08/18/2009 6:24:50 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (Palin/Meygn Kelly 2012)
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To: sr4402

After wealthy Americans leave the country to avoid oppressive taxes, who will pay for all the wetback’s medical bills, education etc.?


26 posted on 08/18/2009 6:25:13 AM PDT by safetysign
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To: posterchild

I guess milliseconds count. Your post showed up first.

Definitely psychotic.


27 posted on 08/18/2009 6:26:44 AM PDT by listenhillary (We became community organizers and Obama and the Statists get p*ssed off at us?)
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To: sr4402
Its taxes and more.

The strong ethical, work oriented culture in America, has been largely destroyed by secular liberalism and socialist policies. The dollar is rapidly becoming worthless.

There is not a problem in this country that does not have the 'gubmnints' hands all over it. Further they won't leave us alone.

This last election indicates to me, that the USA will not survive an ignorant electorate. We can thank the goverment "school" system for that.

My wife and I are looking at the possibilities and problems of emigrating. At this point we feel very threatened by the nonsensical, stupid, and ignorant policies of the ignoramus' who inhabit the seats of government. These are foul people who, if they can, will strip us of every Constitutional freedom.

Lastly, they are about to kill the geese laying the golden eggs, i.e. entrepreneurial spirit, capitalism, and individual achievement.

28 posted on 08/18/2009 6:29:20 AM PDT by Banjoguy (Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat party are among the enemies of The Republic.)
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To: safetysign

Socialism is a great plan until you run out of other peoples money to spend. After that point, it pretty much sucks and then we will truly become egalitarian and misery will be shared by all.


29 posted on 08/18/2009 6:30:15 AM PDT by listenhillary (We became community organizers and Obama and the Statists get p*ssed off at us?)
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To: listenhillary

My kids are both past state chess champions. When we talk about the hot issues in politics I tell them to think like a chess player. They need to think not just about their moves but about their opponents moves as well. Democrats do not do this very well.


30 posted on 08/18/2009 6:31:08 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: chimera
Another was a native New Zealander who simply went home.

Australia is a gun-grabber's socialist heaven. I wouldn't move there for anything. Also, the unions have really trashed that country. Somebody is always on strike wanting more tax dollars to line their pockets.

New Zealand is beautiful, but it is nearly impossible to immigrate into that country unless you are a native New Zealander like your friend.

31 posted on 08/18/2009 6:32:14 AM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Chile is very nice on my short list of places I would enjoy spending a few years working. Friendly people, modern first world capital city, healthy legal environment and good economic freedom, beautiful rural areas...


32 posted on 08/18/2009 6:33:43 AM PDT by posterchild (Endowed by my Creator with certain unalienable rights.)
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To: Straight Vermonter

That works until Obama’s unelected, unvetted Pay Czar retroactively seizes past compensation of executives or Bill Clinton retroactively raises income and corporate taxes.


33 posted on 08/18/2009 6:35:48 AM PDT by listenhillary (We became community organizers and Obama and the Statists get p*ssed off at us?)
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To: Western Phil
Some of these are airline pilots. Pilot training in the rest of the world sucks. The US produces too many pilots for here so there are occasional opportunities overseas.

Double benefit to training in the US. If I'm not mistaken, the language for international flights is English, even if neither the country of origin nor the destination mainly speak English. (Anyone know if that's changed?)

34 posted on 08/18/2009 6:36:54 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Obi-Wan Palin: Strike her down and she shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.)
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To: sr4402

If Obumbler care passes, you will see more leave(Dr.). If they dictate what they think you should earn, more will leave. Pretty soon the brown shirts will be at the borders to stop people from leaving. Just like Hitler did.


35 posted on 08/18/2009 6:39:13 AM PDT by luv2ndamend (May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. — Samue)
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To: sr4402; AmericanInTokyo

Back to Japan is always an option...


36 posted on 08/18/2009 6:42:59 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: posterchild
I know that several years ago quite a few Americans were moving to central America after retirement. I don't know if that trend is continuing.
37 posted on 08/18/2009 6:44:04 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: sr4402

Where does one go? Well...I always thought the little two bedroom place that my folks went to in the Bahamas was a time share. My Mom died a little over a year ago and my Dad just turned ninety one and is in good health. When we were going over the estate I found out that they own that little place. They bought it over twenty years ago when prices were considerably lower. My wife died nine years ago and I’m ready to retire after thirty one years in post secondary education. We both have big houses that we don’t need, taxes that we don’t want, (no income tax in the Bahamas) and winters that we will remember but don’t wish to endure anymore. We’ve been transfering our money to the Bahamas a little bit at a time and talking about moving so....next Summer.


38 posted on 08/18/2009 6:45:50 AM PDT by Leg Olam (Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: sr4402
The link from Steyn doesn't lead to anything useful. I seriously doubt the number if it is supposed to be US citizens leaving the country permanently. Census used to have a "clock" showing births, deaths, immigrants and emigrants. Now it just shows "net migration" but older data implied numbers in the range of 25-200,000. If it is gross US residents (including legal aliens) I might believe it, but that counts every exec moving to Berlin to replace one coming home, every Korean student graduating and going home, etc. Without a solid link, I remain very skeptical. As Mark Twain said, "Such a large return of conjecture from such a small investment of fact?"

Of course, the political import of alleged increasing emigration is nothing new:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9907E7DD1739E43BBC4D52DFB767838A679FDE

39 posted on 08/18/2009 6:46:00 AM PDT by BohDaThone
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To: sr4402
Liberals have no idea how people respond to taxes

Just based on Obama's henchman, that's probably because they don't pay them!

40 posted on 08/18/2009 6:46:28 AM PDT by maryz
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To: sr4402

I think those are illegals that left. Our stupid government counts them as citizens.


41 posted on 08/18/2009 6:47:15 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: sr4402
So are you saying that American Pilots leave America for piloting positions overseas? Are their any benefits to that?

A steady paycheck, for one. A friend of mine from a former life actually started an agency to get American pilots for foreign airlines. The foreign airlines loved them because they were polite, efficient and saftey oriented. The American military trains our guys like that. Too many foreign locales train theirs to be hot dogs-- very handy when they are sent on suicide missions; not so handy when you are expected to convey a planeload of paying passengers safely from Point A to Point B.

42 posted on 08/18/2009 6:52:11 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or, are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: BubbaBasher
I know of several HUNDRED who have left taking all of their treasure with them. I would not characterize most of them as libs or having BDS. They are mostly people who are very good at seeing where the country is headed - consequently many are what I would call uberrich.
43 posted on 08/18/2009 6:52:57 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit The law will be followed, dammit!)
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To: sr4402

These folks are fools and here’s why:

They are only safe where they’re going because they carried AMERICAN PASSPORTS and in the past, if they got in trouble, there was SOME expectation that the U.S. would move to assist them up to and including sending in the Marines with enough firepower to bail them out. Under the idiots now infesting Washington, that is no longer a safe assumption.

They would be better advised to stay home and do the hard work of turning out the idiot socialists in 2010 and 2012. If the American Constitution fails, the rest of the world will follow — INCLUDING where these LAZY COWARDS are heading!

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=Gdnznz6UqG


44 posted on 08/18/2009 6:55:42 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: Straight Vermonter

There are lots of good options for retirees or if one has a business in the US that can be operated remotely via internet. There is probably a wide range of business friendliness in central america though. I was amazed at the number of people from the US that I ran into who run bed and breakfasts in Costa Rica. (Though there are supposedly weak property rights in CR.) Also hear that Panama and Belize are somewhat business friendly.


45 posted on 08/18/2009 6:57:15 AM PDT by posterchild (Endowed by my Creator with certain unalienable rights.)
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To: chimera

It’s growing.


46 posted on 08/18/2009 6:58:35 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (They cleverly know they must first eliminate peaceful dissent, before they can seize everyone's guns)
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To: Chickensoup
Probably a number of them going back to the middle east.

Not nearly enough of them.

47 posted on 08/18/2009 7:01:03 AM PDT by Retired COB (Still mad about Campaign Finance Reform)
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To: mad_as_he$$

The whole world is headed into a place that few would wish to contemplate, it doesn’t matter where one might try to immigrate(hide) too...


48 posted on 08/18/2009 7:03:25 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: listenhillary

Sort of like it was in the USSR?


49 posted on 08/18/2009 7:04:27 AM PDT by PIF
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To: posterchild

Just be sure you eat in a good resturant...


50 posted on 08/18/2009 7:05:11 AM PDT by PIF
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