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I really think the US is toast.
random thoughts | 20AUG'09 | mapmaker77

Posted on 08/20/2009 1:55:18 AM PDT by mapmaker77

If the population of this country does not wake up pretty damn soon then we are not going to wake up smelling the roses, but the corpses.

Lib dims are in charge of everything in the gov't now and they are hell bent on wrecking the very things that make America unique. PC run amok. Radical academics/activists in key posts with no restraints, and fed budget size money to spend,, this is socialist nirvana.

I just spent the time to read the health care bill and after sifting thru the legal and politik speak, abortion and euthanasia are, of course, in there. And it will bankrupt us.

Our Military is heavily engaged overseas, and we've got Russian nuclear submarines off our coast. Winds of war in central America, and Mexico rotting from within.

I have a question: If the Russians, or Iranians, or NKs, or just anyone who could afford to buy a nuke were to adapt it for EMP det, then how many American citizens would be alive one year later?


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: chat; noob; outofcontrollibs; valianteffort; vanity
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1 posted on 08/20/2009 1:55:19 AM PDT by mapmaker77
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To: mapmaker77

Our entire way of life is based upon electricity. It was no more apparent than the last power grid failure in new england several years ago. It was literally back to the stone age except for automobiles. Everyone is dependent on the national power grid. An emp burst would be the first step in an attempt to take out America as a superpower.


2 posted on 08/20/2009 2:09:25 AM PDT by Telepathic Intruder
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To: mapmaker77

I’d say... a few million.

But our healthcare crisis would be alleviated because we’d have so many dead, who no longer needed any healthcare.

And think of the stimulus effect of rebuilding... without computers...


3 posted on 08/20/2009 2:12:30 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (Huguenot)
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To: PieterCasparzen

If Obamacare passes, invest in funeral homes. They will be getting alot of business.


4 posted on 08/20/2009 2:20:11 AM PDT by JaneNC (I)
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To: mapmaker77
Oh woe.

Sackcloth and ashes.

Trials and tribulations.

The end is nigh.




No, not that.

I just spilled my damn beer.

5 posted on 08/20/2009 2:20:25 AM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: mapmaker77

90% would be gone in one year

http://www.futurescience.com/emp.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMP
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf
go read the book;
http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-After-William-Forstchen/dp/0765317583/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250759390&sr=8-1

If you do a search of news articles of about a year ago there was talk of NK and Iran wanting to develop Emp technology with their nuke programs. Nobody is talking about it today. Go to the first link above and it seems that the most efficient Emp producing device is a more primitive device the likes of which NK and Iran are capable of.
I did notice a news article a few weeks ago about preparing DC against EMP but can’t find it now.
I read “One Second After” and it scared me to death.


6 posted on 08/20/2009 2:21:02 AM PDT by vanilla swirl
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To: vanilla swirl

It does kinda look like we passed that Tipping point, where once the Electorate realizes that it can Vote itself largesse from the public treasury, it’s All downhill.


7 posted on 08/20/2009 2:26:25 AM PDT by To-Whose-Benefit? (It is Error alone which needs the support of Government. The Truth can stand by itself.)
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To: mapmaker77

Actually similar results would happen in the event of a solar storm like 1859.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=timeline-the-1859-solar-superstorm
We are at solar minimum now but in just a few years (2012?) it would swing the other way.


8 posted on 08/20/2009 2:26:43 AM PDT by vanilla swirl
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To: mapmaker77

After having started my international travels in 1999, after a divorce, I pretty much left the US for good in Jan 2005.
Even though I lived in, to me the greatest state, Tennessee,
I could see that it was time for me to try another life.

I was first in central Europe, and only this year did I move to the Philippines.
I have well adapted to life in a third world country, living just peachy on $500 per month, surrounded by poor but friendly people. The quaint and relaxed life with so many nice people is nothing I could ever imagine back in the USA.
I have my air conditioned cottage on a beach, TV, DSL internet, and a sweet girl that does EVERYTHING for me.

Anyway, the USA is nothing like it was, just 20 years ago.
I think life there has reached it’s Peter Principle.


9 posted on 08/20/2009 2:39:46 AM PDT by AlexW (Now in the Philippines . Happy not to be back in the USA for now.)
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To: mapmaker77

I’m not so doom and gloom. People are waking up , freedom is a natural human yearning and it’s hard to keep it down ultimately. If I didn’t think it was worth fighting for, I would not waste my time here.


10 posted on 08/20/2009 2:40:07 AM PDT by Nateman (If liberals aren't screaming you're doing it wrong.)
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To: mapmaker77

What is amazing to me is that the groups and individuals pushing self destructive policies and behavior on us and the country do not seem to have thought the process through beyond the attainment of their immediate goals.

They are suffering from the same mental disconnect that causes a dog to try to bite the tire on a speeding car.

There is no end game for them. They don’t seem to have made the connection between the eventual destruction of America and their own well being.

What happens when they succeed in shutting down most of our power generation?
What happens when they finally succeed in raising tax rates to 100% so the moochers can have it all?
What will happen when we destroy our nuclear deterrent and throw open our borders?

Who will feed, clothe and house them when they finally destroy our economy and there is no more wealth for the government to confiscate?
Where will the food come from when there is no energy to produce and deliver seed and fertilizer, to run the farm machinery, power the processing plants and deliver the food?
Who will protect them when they succeed in outlawing guns and also getting millions of criminals released because of their skin color?

What will be the end result when they finally convert the entire education system to a system of liberal indoctrination and brainwashing so graduates are no more than mindless leftist mindbots? When they are all unable to distinguish right and wrong, incapable of making a judgement of an informed decision, unable to produce anything of value or of protecting themselves and their families?

They wanted to be able to brag that they voted for a black man for president but never thought what might happen when he actually was elected and began to implement all the changes he talked about on the campaign trail.

Will they ever learn before it is too late to turn back?


11 posted on 08/20/2009 2:40:19 AM PDT by Iron Munro (America's awkward stage: too late to work within the system, too early to shoot the bastards)
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To: mapmaker77
That depends on whether you live in the city, or the country, and how adapt you are at survival. Buy a Boy Scout Handbook, before 1970 edition.
12 posted on 08/20/2009 2:40:21 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple, fight or die.)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

And this is why I uprooted myself from the North and recently returned to my southern roots. We’re setup to survive here as are many others who have thought about the same thing taking place.


13 posted on 08/20/2009 2:46:26 AM PDT by Paige ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing," Edmund Burke)
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To: Yosemitest
Can you plow with a mule?

I haint got no mule.

And the wife gets all tuckered out when I hitch 'er up.

14 posted on 08/20/2009 2:48:19 AM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: AlexW
You are not the only Tennessean now living in the Phillipines! I've a friend who's made the same move within the last few years.

There's something to be said about a quiet life, devoid of the overbearing presence of a government that's lost its constitutional footing. Like ours has.

15 posted on 08/20/2009 2:50:24 AM PDT by meyer (Do not go gentle into that good night - Rage, rage against the dying of the light.)
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To: MARTIAL MONK
Now th' "Jenny" will almost as good as da "Jack."
16 posted on 08/20/2009 2:59:57 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple, fight or die.)
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To: MARTIAL MONK

You won’t be so calm about the situation when you have to drink warm beer!!!! lol


17 posted on 08/20/2009 3:25:01 AM PDT by runninglips (It was just time for this to come to a head.....)
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To: MARTIAL MONK

You won’t be so calm about the situation when you have to drink warm beer!!!! lol

The libs won’t let us chip ice out of lakes in the winter to keep anything cold in this new dark future, it causes global warming you know.


18 posted on 08/20/2009 3:25:52 AM PDT by runninglips (It was just time for this to come to a head.....)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

Why centralize a national power grid?

It would be far better if there were thousands of small, decentralized power grids enough to power communities, making it less likely to return to the stone age that easy.


19 posted on 08/20/2009 3:33:04 AM PDT by myknowledge (F-22 Raptor: World's Largest Distributor of Sukhoi parts!)
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To: mapmaker77

You totally need to read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Starving-Monkeys-Entrepreneurial-Tom-Baugh/dp/061530155X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250765101&sr=8-1


20 posted on 08/20/2009 3:46:15 AM PDT by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: mapmaker77
I have beenposting around this topic for months. What happens in the short term may be irreversible at this point. Like a roller coaster. However, if the libtards succeed in their plans to destroy our country and culture there just may be an "inflection point" at which prepared individuals can step in and put us back on the path. Reinstitue the Constitution. Hit the reset button on Epci Fail. I see the "glass as half full". That is our opportunity. We may have to go through an ordeal with Brown Shirts and what not but if we persevere in our ideals we can triumph. Buck up buddy.

Μολὼν λάβε


21 posted on 08/20/2009 3:47:44 AM PDT by wastoute (translation of tag "Come and get them (bastards)" or "come get some")
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To: Telepathic Intruder

And with most automobiles relying on electrical computers to operate, an EMP would knock that part out as well.

That show The Colony would be very accurate, except there wouldn’t be just a handful of people trying to make it, it would be barbarian type violence.


22 posted on 08/20/2009 3:55:41 AM PDT by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

Electric cars??? HOLD ON THERE A MINUTE!

WE GOT A PHD IN “NO POWER” LAID ON US A FEW YEARS AGO. THREE WEEKS WITH “NO POWER” AFTER ONE WHING-DINGER OF A HURRICANE IS QUITE SHOCKING (PUN INTENDED). SUCH RAZOR-EDGE HONES COMMON SENSE AND BRINGS BACK MEMORIES OF THOSE OUT-HOUSE DAYS.

THE MOST FRIGHTFUL THINGS WAS SEEING HOW THOSE RAISED AND LIVING THEIR ENTIRE LIVES ON CONCRETE POSSESSED ABSOLUTELY NO SURVIVAL SKILLS! AND THEN THERE WERE THOSE NEIGHBORS WHO WANTED TO BORROW A WEAPON... ANY WEAPON.

AND COMRAD WANTS ME TO LOOK IN MY DRIVEWAY AND SEE A ROLLER SKEATE AT THE END OF AN EXTENSION CORD? NOT QUITE!


23 posted on 08/20/2009 4:01:49 AM PDT by Bubba (There's a revolution a brewing!)
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To: AlexW

My husband and I have discussed moving out of the country.

Are you living on savings on the $500 a month in the Phillipines or are you earning it there?


24 posted on 08/20/2009 4:04:01 AM PDT by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: AlexW

I totally understand man . I left 24 years ago next month . At the time it wasn’t because I saw the writing on the wall . After all , Ronald Reagan was President . But from around 91 on , I gradually came to the sad conclusion that America had seen better days . I still prayed for my country and hoped things would turn around , but things just got worse . Look what we have now . A marxist and usurper as POTUS and the Rats running the Congress and the Senate . Who could have predicted that ?

Japan is no utopia , but I’ve had a good life here and a great wife . No regrets .

I don’t love my country quite as much as I used to , but would be willing to take part in a civil war to take it back .


25 posted on 08/20/2009 4:04:18 AM PDT by sushiman
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To: To-Whose-Benefit?
This is how you fix it.

Texas and maybe Louisiana secede and the marxists issue orders to bring them back.

The US Military instead rounds up the socialists and puts them on a plane to Cuba.

Provisional military government for 6 months, then new elections for all congressional seats and the WH, incumbents need not apply.

Only tax paying citizens and veterans are enfranchised in the new Republic.

All amendments other than the original bill of rights are repealed.

"Dueling" legalized within the Washington DC limits.

Problem solved

26 posted on 08/20/2009 4:05:18 AM PDT by Rome2000 (Hussein Baraka Mook Kebba)
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To: Iron Munro

Post of the day . Great stuff . Thank you !


27 posted on 08/20/2009 4:06:33 AM PDT by sushiman
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To: Iron Munro
What happens when they succeed in shutting down most of our power generation?

GREAT questions in your post. I 've wondered the same thing. Do tort lawyers realize that if healthcare is controlled by the government that their ability to sue for medical malpractice will likely be limited?

28 posted on 08/20/2009 4:13:20 AM PDT by alrea
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To: autumnraine

“Are you living on savings on the $500 a month in the Phillipines or are you earning it there?”

No, it is part of my small social security payment.
One can not legally work here.
I did work in Europe as a private tutor of English, mostly in businesses and banks, but started drawing SS last year.


29 posted on 08/20/2009 4:17:17 AM PDT by AlexW (Now in the Philippines . Happy not to be back in the USA for now.)
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To: vanilla swirl
Only one thing: you need a megaton-yield nuclear weapon for EMP to be effective. And alas, that's beyond the technology of North Korea or Iran--a 20 kT nuclear device exploding in Earth orbit has the effect of a solar storm. After what happened to the Quebec power grid in 1989 when a major solar storm knocked out part of the grid, they've put in more sophisticated safety systems to protect the grid from the effects of a solar storm, so a low-yield nuclear weapon will have relatively little effects on the ground below.

According to what we know about the Dominic Starfish Prime test, it used a W49 nuclear warhead (essentially a modified B28 nuclear bomb) with a yield of 1.4 MT. As such, the explosion at 250 miles above the ground had pretty awesome effects, as witnessed by the substantial electrical interference in Hawaii. It makes me wonder during the Cold War, the Russians had planned to use the older SS-9 (R-36) missiles armed with a circa 20 MT nuclear warhead to detonate about 200-300 miles above the ground for enormous EMP effects.

30 posted on 08/20/2009 4:17:32 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: AlexW

My husband talks about leaving. I didn’t notice people were less free here than Europe until the year 2000. It’s only gotten worse. I wouldn’t go to Europe, that place is dying. He likes India and Chile. Personally, I think I will die here but I encourage any and all young people to go somewhere that raising a family is good. That increasingly is not the US.


31 posted on 08/20/2009 4:19:20 AM PDT by Varda
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To: sushiman

“Japan is no utopia , but I’ve had a good life here and a great wife . No regrets “

Yes, I know it is tight in Japan. I am not sure if I could
adapt to the culture..A bit too stiff for me, but here, EVERYONE is so laid back.


32 posted on 08/20/2009 4:19:57 AM PDT by AlexW (Now in the Philippines . Happy not to be back in the USA for now.)
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To: Varda

“My husband talks about leaving. I didn’t notice people were less free here than Europe until the year 2000. It’s only gotten worse. I wouldn’t go to Europe”

Well, I would not go back to live in Europe.
I went to Slovakia, before it was sucked into the EU.
It was freed from Marxism, and a nice country, but very few speak English.
I enjoyed my stay there, but not good for retirement.


33 posted on 08/20/2009 4:25:45 AM PDT by AlexW (Now in the Philippines . Happy not to be back in the USA for now.)
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To: RayChuang88

If you read the link I posted;
http://www.futurescience.com/emp.html
you will see that Starfish Prime was 1.44 megaton but a smaller nuclear fission weapon requiring far less expertise would be much more effective. Also take into account the fact that WHERE the event occurs relating to the earth’s magnetic field makes a difference as well. The northern hemisphere (USA) has more electromagnetic “lines of force” available for the device to interact with than the south pacific.


34 posted on 08/20/2009 4:35:33 AM PDT by vanilla swirl
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To: sushiman

“I don’t love my country quite as much as I used to , but would be willing to take part in a civil war to take it back .”

We may be calling you back soon!


35 posted on 08/20/2009 4:42:34 AM PDT by vanilla swirl
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To: All
No Thanks. Maybe you don't understand what is going to happen to the rest of the world if the United States fails. This is the battleground. If the light of America is extinguished there will be no place to hide. America is the crux that holds up commerce, transportation and political stability. If America fails then governments and economies around the world will collapse. There are billions who depend on our strength and freedom to keep them from totalitarianism and slavery.

God has not abandoned this country yet, nor will I.

As for the rest of you, flee. Protect yourself. I hold no animosity towards you. But I will fight to keep my children from living in a post-America world. This is where I make my stand.

One person with a belief is equal to a force of 99 who have only interests. - John Stuart Mill

36 posted on 08/20/2009 4:44:50 AM PDT by Pan_Yan (Really?)
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To: mapmaker77

37 posted on 08/20/2009 4:53:10 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Everyone signing up after Nov 28, 1997 is a newbie.)
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To: myknowledge

“Why centralize a national power grid?

It would be far better if there were thousands of small, decentralized power grids enough to power communities, making it less likely to return to the stone age that easy.”

Look up Tesla versus Edison. Edison’s power plan was DC which require a power plant every mile or so because DC can’t be transported farther than that. Tesla developed ac because of the long distance capabilities.


38 posted on 08/20/2009 5:04:44 AM PDT by vanilla swirl
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To: mapmaker77
We are the world's biggest debtor nation. We are fast approaching the time when we must choose between guns and butter. And we will choose butter, i.e., the entitlement programs and the interest on the national debt. These combined "mandatory" expenditures make up about 60% of the federal budget now. Defense, the second largest line item in the budget, is discretionary and will become a bigger target for cost cutters.

Obama's porkulus package, TARP, and his supplemental budget will double the US national debt, publicly held, which will mean that we will be spending over $800 billion on debt servicing costs alone. Medicare and SS will go bust in a decade requiring more general fund money and we we have an aging population. By 2030, one in every five residents of this country will be 65 or older. The entitlement programs represent an unfunded liability of over $60 trillion.

Add ObamaCare, which is twice the size of Medicare, cap and tax, and amnesty and this country will sink like a ton of bricks.

39 posted on 08/20/2009 5:15:32 AM PDT by kabar
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To: AlexW

My first vote was for Ronald Reagan in 1980. I remember very well the sense of hope, of purpose, of giddiness at the unlimited potential of this great country. At the time, nothing seemed impossible, and we thought the greatness of America would simply go on forever.

I can’t begin to describe the stark change in attitude from then to now. I never used to think America was finished as a great nation. I’m starting to believe otherwise.


40 posted on 08/20/2009 5:18:50 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Welcome to the Revolution.)
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To: mapmaker77

You’ve been watching too much 24. We survived The Clintons. Will will survive 4 years of The Messiah. People will be ready for CHANGE then.


41 posted on 08/20/2009 5:21:37 AM PDT by McGruff (We have the right to debate and disagree with any administration - Hillary Clinton)
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To: vanilla swirl

I don’t think it’s possible, politically, to put the fedgov back in its cage, short of state secession.

Completely separating, politically, is the only (human) way to preserve liberty at this point. With God, though, all things are possible. Perhaps He’ll bring Gideon to the fore again, and we’ll defeat the Midianites entrenched in the fedgov.


42 posted on 08/20/2009 5:23:33 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: reagan_fanatic

“My first vote was for Ronald Reagan in 1980.”

I know how you feel.
I missed voting for Goldwater, by less then a year, haha...voting age was 21 then.
Reagan gave a lot of spirit to the world, and especially
to central Europe, where I enjoyed some years of living,
long after the fall of the iron curtain.

It all comes home when you go to the Danube and see a monument to those that tried to swim to freedom in Austria.
The old building with the gun ramps is still there.
(Devin Slovakia)


43 posted on 08/20/2009 5:44:28 AM PDT by AlexW (Now in the Philippines . Happy not to be back in the USA for now.)
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To: Iron Munro
To Post No 11.

Excellent post. You presented a number of thoughtful (and logical) points. I would like to elaborate on just one, for now.

What is amazing to me is that the groups and individuals pushing self destructive policies and behavior on us and the country do not seem to have thought the process through beyond the attainment of their immediate goals.

In his book "The Liberal Mind - The Psychological Causes of Political Madness" Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr., M.D. says that those of the Left generally have a high degree of "self hate." They are truly bothered and look for the cause of this problem. Following the teachings of Marx, they are taught that their problems are caused by the "social injustice" of the free enterprise system and self-righteous Christians. They see people who don't support their world view as evil, and deserving of a hideous end because they are so tortured.

So, you are correct, they have no real end plan because they think that everything will be alright if they can just get rid of the evil system that holds them back. But, of course, destroying the culture that we love will not end their angst. They are forever doomed to project their problems onto whatever is convenient.

44 posted on 08/20/2009 6:19:02 AM PDT by Texas Jack
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To: Iron Munro
We are so obviously living the "fictional novel" Atlas Shrugged.
45 posted on 08/20/2009 6:25:21 AM PDT by shezza (A government that gives you everything you want can take away everything you have.)
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To: shezza

Atlas Shrugged... yes... and...

Perhaps 1984. Or Animal Farm.

Or even The Turner Diaries.


46 posted on 08/20/2009 6:27:01 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
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To: reagan_fanatic

” My first vote was for Ronald Reagan in 1980. I remember very well the sense of hope, of purpose, of giddiness at the unlimited potential of this great country. At the time, nothing seemed impossible, and we thought the greatness of America would simply go on forever.”

Me , too , and I was 28 at the time . Worked for the Suffolk County , NY Republicans as a volunteer on the phones . What a thrill it was to help get Ronald Reagan elected . Perhaps the past , great POTUS we shall ever know .


47 posted on 08/20/2009 6:52:44 AM PDT by sushiman
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To: mapmaker77

Funny how America doesn’t even get a reference in the Bible.


48 posted on 08/20/2009 7:00:03 AM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: ASA Vet
Let's hope not....

Press on!

49 posted on 08/20/2009 7:11:20 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: McGruff

Conservatism becomes overwhelmingly attractive when Democrats simply act like Democrats. After 4 to 8 years of swimming in their muck and mire, hopefully voters will crawl over broken glass to vote in Conservatives once again.


50 posted on 08/20/2009 8:03:05 AM PDT by 1951Boomer
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