Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A-List Stars Flailing at the Box Office (Dinosaur Media DeathWatch™)
The New York Times ^ | August 21, 2009 | Brooks Barnes

Posted on 08/21/2009 3:03:59 AM PDT by abb

The spring and summer box office has murdered megawatt stars like Denzel Washington, Julia Roberts, Eddie Murphy, John Travolta, Russell Crowe, Tom Hanks, Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell.

Can Brad Pitt escape?

A-list movie stars have long been measured by their ability to fill theaters on opening weekend. But never have so many failed to deliver, resulting in some rare soul-searching by motion picture studios about why the old formula isn’t working — and a great deal of anxiety among stars (and agents) about the potential vaporization of their $20 million paychecks.

“The cratering of films with big stars is astounding,” said Peter Guber, the former chairman of Sony Pictures who is now a producer and industry elder statesman. “These supertalented people are failing to aggregate a large audience, and everybody is looking for answers.”

Mr. Guber added, “Even Johnny Depp” — starring in the drama “Public Enemies” — “didn’t exactly deliver a phenomenal result.” (The A-list results may be damped partly because Will Smith, a regular summer powerhouse, had no movie open this season.)

Mr. Ferrell bombed in “Land of the Lost,” a $100 million comedy that sold only $49 million in tickets in North America. Ms. Roberts missed with “Duplicity,” a $60 million thriller that attracted $40.6 million. “Angels & Demons” (Mr. Hanks) was soft. The same for “The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3” (Mr. Washington and Mr. Travolta).

“Imagine That,” starring Mr. Murphy, was such a disaster that Paramount Pictures had to take a write-down. Mr. Sandler? His “Funny People” limped out of the gate and then collapsed. Some of these may simply have not been very good, but an A-list star is supposed to overcome that.

The gradual trend away from big-star vehicles in the summer has been under way for years.

snip

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: boxoffice; dbm; hollywood; movies
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-122 next last
Friday morning good news.
1 posted on 08/21/2009 3:03:59 AM PDT by abb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: abb

Make a decent movie and I’ll go see it.


2 posted on 08/21/2009 3:06:37 AM PDT by DB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb
I love it!

Maybe if the "big stars" would keep their political ignorance to themselves instead of thinking that their opinions matter more than the rest of ours, they wouldn'be be having this problem.

3 posted on 08/21/2009 3:06:39 AM PDT by Allegra ( Socks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

More people have figured out that sober, working people need to stop funding the Left. They have contempt for us. The least we can do is not finance them.


4 posted on 08/21/2009 3:07:43 AM PDT by iowamark (certified by Michael Steele as "ugly and incendiary")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 04-Bravo; aimhigh; andyandval; Arizona Carolyn; backhoe; Bahbah; bert; bilhosty; Caipirabob; ...

Ping. Must read.


5 posted on 08/21/2009 3:08:08 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DB

Julie and Julia is a good one.


6 posted on 08/21/2009 3:12:25 AM PDT by Rennes Templar (All Hail the Community Organizer in Chief of the Land of the Fee)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: DB

It’s not just making a decent movie anymore.
I do not care how good a movie is, I will not give a penny to see a movie with say Barbra Streisand or Ms. Garafalo or folks of their liberal ilk.
Screw em.


7 posted on 08/21/2009 3:13:48 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (google; operation garden spot and REX84)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: abb

People are not a impressed with ‘the stars’ as they used to be. Let’s face it, there are no more Bob Hope’s, Jimmy Stewart’s, Cary Grants, Katherine Hepberns, etc.

And all the latest slate of movies are rated ‘R’. I have no desire to see them.

Like another poster said up thread - “Make a decent movie, and I’ll go see it.”


8 posted on 08/21/2009 3:14:37 AM PDT by sneakers (Where'd my tag line go?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb
I’d say their problem is a collection of high ticket prices, bad economy, bad movies and stars who have offended large segments of potential audiences.
9 posted on 08/21/2009 3:14:38 AM PDT by highlander_UW (The only difference between the MSM and the DNC is the MSM sells ad space in their propaganda)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

The last time I went to see a movie in a theater was when I paid to see Rocky (Rocky 1).


10 posted on 08/21/2009 3:16:54 AM PDT by hflynn (The One is really the Number Two)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb
Some of these may simply have not been very good

Some? Some? LOL.

11 posted on 08/21/2009 3:17:27 AM PDT by csvset
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

All the movies I’ve tried to watch recently (I’ve grown tired of the oldies, and have taken a look at some recent offerings) can be summed up in one sentence: when are he and she going to “do it?”

That’s it. That’s the whole movie. Well, except for a lot of soul-searching of the self-pity variety on the part of he and she.

No thanks.


12 posted on 08/21/2009 3:20:45 AM PDT by Steely Tom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb
The surge in social networking services like Twitter and Facebook, not to mention text messaging, has made it much harder for studios to persuade consumers that the movies are worth their time.

Translation: It's now easier for people to warn off their friends from Hollyweird crapola.

13 posted on 08/21/2009 3:21:49 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

Die Hollywood!


14 posted on 08/21/2009 3:22:21 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Socialism is not a bad word. It is a bad concept.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574360503853566592.html
Jay Leno Gets Ready for Prime Time

snip

Creating “The Jay Leno Show” helped the struggling network hang onto Mr. Leno after it replaced him as host of “The Tonight Show” with Conan O’Brien this past June. “The Jay Leno Show” also cuts costs. Prime-time dramas typically average about $3 million to make an episode or $15 million a week to fill the 10 p.m slot. A live entertainment show like Mr. Leno’s could cost as little as $2 million a week, according to industry estimates. NBC declined to discuss exact figures.

snip

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125081583257748185.html
Tribune Expects Changes

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574345440442046638.html
A Good Nazi Hunter Is Hard to Find
The ‘Pulp Fiction’ director on ‘Inglourious Basterds,’ his World War II action film

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-newscorp21-2009aug21,0,5961516.story
News Corp. pushing to create an online news consortium

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-movieprojector21-2009aug21,0,1239640.story
‘Inglourious Basterds’ predicted to have No. 1 weekend at box office

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-murdoch21-2009aug21,0,4502428.story
Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp. pay package shrinks 40%

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tribune21-2009aug21,0,28671.story
Sam Zell or no, Tribune team wants to remain in place after bankruptcy

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-nfl20-2009aug20,0,6330381.story
NFL makes big bet in aligning dates of major TV deals.
By setting up four broadcast contracts to expire in 2014, the NFL is betting that it’ll then have the leverage to hike its rights fees. But there are risks.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-basterds21-2009aug21,0,1767289.story
‘Inglourious Basterds’
Quentin Tarantino’s World War II movie has blood, but its heart doesn’t beat.


15 posted on 08/21/2009 3:22:43 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Virginia Ridgerunner

From yesterday’s Dinosaur Media DeathWatch™ thread.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/movies/bal-ae.twitter19aug19,0,7572694.story

Twitter Effect rattles Hollywood
Avalanche of raves or pans can be set off before credits stop rolling

By Michael Sragow | michael.sragow@baltsun.com

August 19, 2009

While word of mouth could always make or break a movie, it usually took days to affect the box office. But the rise of social networking tools like Twitter may be narrowing that time frame to mere hours. And that has Hollywood on edge.

snip


16 posted on 08/21/2009 3:27:00 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: abb

I was really hoping to read that that giant America hater George Looney had failed.


17 posted on 08/21/2009 3:27:11 AM PDT by RushLake (Liberalism--Terrorism financed by your tax dollars.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

I think it’s a combination of three things.

Young people see movies and young people have become their own stars. They create their own entertainment on the internet starring themselves. Facebook, Blogging, Forums, Youtube, Myspace. Young adults are busy creating & communicating.

Sitting in a movie theater is becoming too passive. Having fun with XBOX or Wii is more fun than 3 hours in a theater.

The third thing is the political. More and more conservatives are choosing not to fund Hollywood and the stars that mock us. I know I have.


18 posted on 08/21/2009 3:27:21 AM PDT by carmody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: carmody

There have been a few good offerings...District 9 will surprise the heck out of you, turning the whole Apartheit question and politics on its ear!


19 posted on 08/21/2009 3:40:26 AM PDT by mdmathis6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: abb

I can add one to this list even though it has made a lot of money. The latest Harry Potter episode was probably the most boring sequel since Lucas pontificated on his galaxy far far away with his disastrous prequels.


20 posted on 08/21/2009 3:51:52 AM PDT by saganite (What would Sully do?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csvset

And don’t forget how theatres have let the in-seat experience go to crap.

I HATE the behavior of TOO MANY of my fellow patrons.

STFU (excuse me) during the movie!!!!


21 posted on 08/21/2009 3:55:32 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: abb

About time.


22 posted on 08/21/2009 3:58:20 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

Don’t see a lot of movies, but I’ve never ‘gotten’ Julia Roberts.

Acts like she’s reading cue cards, I also get the feeling she’d be a fright without all the war paint.


23 posted on 08/21/2009 4:00:16 AM PDT by Gunflint
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mdmathis6

I needed a shower after watching that movie.


24 posted on 08/21/2009 4:02:45 AM PDT by 03A3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: abb
“Even Johnny Depp” — starring in the drama “Public Enemies”

Perhaps not the worst. movie. ever.

But still pretty. damn. awful.

25 posted on 08/21/2009 4:09:48 AM PDT by Maceman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
Good old AMERICAN PAYBACK for all those anything AMERICAN hating limousine liberal communist that helped get the dear leader elected and bash and trash every thing good in in this country whenever possible. I hope the go the way of the dino’s
26 posted on 08/21/2009 4:13:40 AM PDT by 3IDVET (STEEL ON TARGET, MAKES EM RATTLED)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

This only applies to the so-called ‘A’ star list. The movie industry itself is not having a recession like other industries. Movies like ‘Transformer’, ‘Up’, ‘Hangover’, ‘Harry Potter’ and ‘Star Trek’ have done quite well. All were released in Summer, and so far each got more than $250m.


27 posted on 08/21/2009 4:15:19 AM PDT by paudio (Road to hell is paved by unintended consequences of good intentions)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb
ut the rise of social networking tools like Twitter may be narrowing that time frame to mere hours.

I don't go to movies any more but I have a number of nieces and nephews who do. They post a review(mostly on facebook, some twitter) as soon as they get home and the rest of them use that as a guide. They ALL saw Star Trek after one posted a glowing review.

Basically Hollywood can't get away with a strong weekend for a huge stink bomb. It stand or falls on its own merit and they're surprised that a Will Ferrel movie bombs? He's funny occasionally but he does movies every week.

28 posted on 08/21/2009 4:18:07 AM PDT by Malsua
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: abb

Ridiculous ticket prices + lousy movies = you lose


29 posted on 08/21/2009 4:18:38 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Proud to have made Communist Leader Obama's hit list at flag@whitehouse.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Allegra

Maybe if the “big stars” would keep their political ignorance to themselves instead of thinking that their opinions matter more than the rest of ours, they wouldn’be be having this problem.

I guess you and I just don’t get it! We’re supposed to be content with our status as the ‘little people’. You know, the unsophisticated, culturally ignorant trailer trash who bow to those above us.


30 posted on 08/21/2009 4:22:19 AM PDT by navymom1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Rennes Templar

I liked ‘Julie & Julia’ too. I thought Meryl Streep captured the essence of Julia Child.

http://www.julieandjulia.com/


31 posted on 08/21/2009 4:23:19 AM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: saganite
The latest Harry Potter episode was probably the most boring sequel since Lucas pontificated on his galaxy far far away with his disastrous prequels.

True, that.

32 posted on 08/21/2009 4:23:43 AM PDT by paulycy (Screw the RACErs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: abb
ALL liberal holyflakes = * Public Enemies *

And, the fact that the citizens are now getting it is terrific.

33 posted on 08/21/2009 4:24:47 AM PDT by xtinct (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gunflint

I think she is a fright WITH make-up. I have never seen her as a pretty woman.


34 posted on 08/21/2009 4:25:34 AM PDT by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: RushLake

I was really hoping to read that that giant America hater George Looney had failed.

When was the last good movie he made or the last positive thing he ever said about this country? Some people might think Oceans 11. I stopped watching him after ‘O Brother Where Art Thou. And I can’t even remember if that movie was made before or after Oceans 11.


35 posted on 08/21/2009 4:25:44 AM PDT by navymom1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Rennes Templar
Julie and Julia is a good one.

The funniest line was, "If I were a Republican, I would have fired you." But, unfortunately, the filmmakers didn't realize that it was.

36 posted on 08/21/2009 4:28:54 AM PDT by Rocko (Report this post to flag@whitehouse.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: abb
Mr. Ferrell bombed in “Land of the Lost,” a $100 million comedy that sold only $49 million in tickets in North America.

Maybe if they didn't take a beloved, albeit cheesy, KIDS program that many of us feel nostalgic about and turn it into a soft porn flick, we might actually go see it. Idiots.

37 posted on 08/21/2009 4:29:28 AM PDT by agrace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Joe Boucher

They’ve destroyed the illusion. I can’t watch any of those stars without constantly replaying their political comments telling ME that my beliefs are stupid and archaic.

And they are certainly free and welcome to share their points of view. They just need to know that it turns people off. I’ve noticed that very few of the younger stars are quite as outspoken. They’re still amassing their fortune and are a little more careful about alienating their audience.


38 posted on 08/21/2009 4:36:48 AM PDT by Josa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: abb

Don’t know if I’ve reached grumpy old man status but the plot and pacing of most modern films have been made subordinate to ‘vehicles’ for various stars...the result is usually an ego-trip devoid of entertainment.

Even when Redford, Newman, Hoffman, Hackman et al were in their prime each film promised a new fully-formed character, a supporting cast that supported the story, not the star and a directorial ‘feel’ that was maintained throughout the film.

Even today’s so-called blockbusters have a cynical sling-it-against-the-wall feel. A good earner will generate a sequel no matter how much the parties involved protest. A bad earner will simply be forgotten by all. So much for art.


39 posted on 08/21/2009 4:36:48 AM PDT by relictele
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

Economics is, of course, why the A-list system works (or perhaps no longer does, according to the article).

Film making is a high-risk, high-reward business. If a film works, it will make gazillions, but no more than one, maybe two, out of ten will be “box-office smashes”. Another two to three of the ten will do “ok”, get their seed money back, perhaps a little more. The rest bomb. With production costs running into the hundreds of millions these days, its no wonder companies will do anything to try and ensure success. This is one reason why there are so many sequels about. The idea is that if a formula is a winner, then theres a better chance that it will win again. Its also why “stars” are paid such fantastic sums. If they can guarantee that a film “opens”, then that is worth ten million dollars to the production companies. Finally, it helps to explain why films are so tawdry these days. To increase their “sellability”, they are made to appeal to as many people as possible, which usually means they resort to the lowest possible common denominator (sex and violence). The net result is we end up with films that most people will “put up with”, rather than some people will actually enjoy.


40 posted on 08/21/2009 4:37:29 AM PDT by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Allegra

> Maybe if the “big stars” would keep their political ignorance to themselves instead of thinking that their opinions matter more than the rest of ours, they wouldn’be be having this problem.

Well said.


41 posted on 08/21/2009 4:41:16 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Josa

Josa.
If only they understood how stupid they appear when they open their mouths and spew socialist or unAmerican b.s.


42 posted on 08/21/2009 4:43:30 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (google; operation garden spot and REX84)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag
And don’t forget how theatres have let the in-seat experience go to crap.

I HATE the behavior of TOO MANY of my fellow patrons.

Here's my big gripe about movie theaters nowadays:

1) The cost of a ticket is getting ridiculous--especially evening showings!
2) The price of concessions is WAY too high for what you get--theater owners are just too dependent on concession sales to make a profit.
3) The sound and projection quality is getting increasingly subpar if you don't watch a movie in a THX-certified theater.
4) Unless you go to a newer theater, seating is increasingly uncomfortable.
5) The movie audience is getting very rude (like not turning off or disabling the audible tones on cellphones and pagers and talking during the film). I myself blame the TV series Mystery Science Theater 3000 for being a HUGELY bad influence on moviegoers because that TV show encouraged people to talk during a film.
6) Too many films espouse the hard-Left views of the producer of the film or the stars in the film.

And you wonder why people are snapping up flat-panel widescreen TV's and home theater systems despite the high initial cost.

43 posted on 08/21/2009 4:46:09 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: abb
I would *love* to go see many of these movies I'm seeing coming out lately. However, due to the personal costs imposed on me my liberalism the first expense to get the ax is costly entertainment.

Also, due to the social effects of liberalism the audiences have become so unruly and inconsiderate that they detract substantially from the overall experience.

And, to tell you the truth, I'm discovering that I have other things I enjoy doing every bit as much - and which are healthier for me.

I guess all the liberals in Hollywood must be sincere - they are certainly putting their money where their mouths are in terms of lost box office sales.

44 posted on 08/21/2009 4:46:34 AM PDT by The Duke ("Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Democrat Party?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

http://cancelthebee.blogspot.com/2009/08/third-floor-in-sacramento-bee-building.html
“Third floor in the Sacramento Bee building seems empty”

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/08/21/2_bidders_for_globe_invited_to_meetings/
2 bidders invited in for tours of Globe

http://newsosaur.blogspot.com/
How publishers can make web content pay


45 posted on 08/21/2009 4:47:14 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Steely Tom
All the movies I’ve tried to watch recently (I’ve grown tired of the oldies, and have taken a look at some recent offerings) can be summed up in one sentence: when are he and she going to “do it?”

Thank you for cutting to the chase.

46 posted on 08/21/2009 4:51:59 AM PDT by Drawsing (The fool shows his annoyance at once. The prudent man overlooks an insult. (Proverbs 12:16))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: hflynn
The last time I went to see a movie in a theater was when I paid to see Rocky (Rocky 1).

You should have seen Rocky III. Rocky III was the best Rocky since Rocky I. Except for maybe Rocky II.

47 posted on 08/21/2009 4:53:34 AM PDT by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: paudio

True. So far this summer I’ve seen Watchmen, Coraline, Star Trek, Harry Potter and Transformers. Watchmen and Coraline were my favorites. Around here we catch a matinee for five bucks or wait til it shows at the dollar movie. The matinees aren’t crowded.


48 posted on 08/21/2009 4:56:24 AM PDT by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: abb

From the Sac Bee comments.....

“LIke the Donner Party too. In order to survive, they’re compelled to eat their own. Thus the ghost floor, littered with bones.”

Meanwhile in Washington the San Francisco congressional delegation is working overtime to infrct America with the California plague


49 posted on 08/21/2009 4:57:09 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . fasl el-khitab)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: abb

http://peterfeld.tumblr.com/post/167492167/josephweisenthal-eliminating-web-offerings
The thing is, he’s right and obviously so. Digital has done nothing to staunch the demise of newspapers like WaPo (NYT the verdict is still out), but it has cost them a lot of money.

http://www.newspaperdeathwatch.com/
Blaming the Editors


50 posted on 08/21/2009 5:00:10 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-122 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson