Posted on 08/21/2009 7:58:32 AM PDT by rabscuttle385
During an economic slowdown, prices usually fall. But there’s just one sector of the economy that’s bizarrely insulated from reality: Academia.
Tuition, room and board at Sarah Lawrence College just hit $53,166 per year. That’s like buying a C-Class Mercedes every year — without the car. Other colleges are comparable, with even state school tuition rising to levels some parents find impossible.
We figure it’s worth it. Universities offer students not just a degree that’s valued in the marketplace, but a chance to broaden their interests and deepen their souls; to gain a solid grounding in the fundamentals that made our civilization.
That’s the theory. But what if universities began to neglect this basic charge, and instead turned into featherbedding, unionized factories that existed to protect their overpaid workers? What if these factories botched the items customers paid for, and spent their energy generating oddball inventions no one wanted?
That is exactly what happened in academia over the past 30 years, according to Emory University Professor Mark Bauerlein, whose American Enterprise Institute paper “Professors on the Production Line, Students On Their Own” explores the secret that most professors are paid based not on the quality (or even quantity) of their teaching, but rather on the volume of scholarly articles and books they can produce.
Laboring on the age-old axiom “publish-or-perish,” thousands of professors, lecturers and graduate students are busy producing dissertations, books, essays and reviews. During the past five decades, their collective productivity has risen from 13,000 to 72,000 publications per year.
But the audience for language and literature scholarship has diminished. Unit sales for such books now hover around 300.
At the same time, the relations between teachers and students have declined. Forty-three percent of two-year public college students and 29 percent of four-year public college students require remedial coursework, costing $2 billion annually.
One national survey reports that 37 percent of first-year arts/humanities students “never” discuss course readings with teachers outside of class. Forty-one percent only do so “sometimes.”
Prestigious professors frequently have little interaction with students at all. Students must seek out professors in scanty office hours.
Meanwhile, the research these professors are turning out — at least in the humanities — is increasingly obscure and often politicized. When dealing with well-studied writers like William Faulkner or Herman Melville, they pursue ever more oddball interpretations. Or professors switch gears and write about popular culture.
Too many universities have given up on providing solid guidance to students’ choice of courses. Graduates of Ivy League colleges can emerge without having ever read Hamlet, the Bible or the Declaration of Independence.
At the pricey Sarah Lawrence College, a typical course on four canonical U.S. authors is “Queer Americans: James, Stein, Cather, Baldwin.” Many leading schools offer similar fare.
It’s essential to carefully scope out each college. Call the admissions office and ask the student to teacher ratio, and the percentage of classes taught by graduate students.
Is there a core curriculum of solid classes in Western culture, American history and great works of literature? Ask a professor how highly teaching (versus research) is valued in tenure decisions.
After all, the teaching is what you’re paying for. Leave the tab for all that research to those 300 people who actually buy the books.
John Zmirak, Ph.D., is editor-in-chief of “Choosing the Right College 2010-11: The Whole Truth about America’s Top Schools” and Collegeguide.org.
Good and hard.
This is why I plan on going to a gunsmithing school.
The college “retail” price is not what most people pay.
The list price is really high to stick it to the rich and subsidize the non payers (who are often just as qualified).
My daugher just graduated from University of Vermont. Cost us 140,000.
From my perspective, the most valuable experience she had was being a member of a sorority. She appears to have gotten a lot out of it. She spoke positively about very few classes.
Fortunately for us, she got an appropriate job with benefits.
Interesting read.
If you don’t mind paying $100,000 for having your child indoctrinated with communism, anti-Americanism, and anti-Christ dogma, go for it.
140K???!?!????
You have got to be kidding me.
Was this Med School?
If not you blew your money completely.
Which one?
Aw HELL naw!
When I speak of my college experience, I often hear "damn, my college experience was nothing like that."
My parents did not have the means to pay for the college I went to. Thankfully, there are programs like ROTC scholarships that offer such an opportunity. It was an added bonus that I was able to serve in the Army after graduation.
Out of state tuition at UVM started at 32k, crept up, plus expenses.
No financial aid. The kid borrowed 15k and we borrowed 20k. Grandma, before death panels, left 40k. We saved 40k. The rest was cash.
A college degree from an Ivy League or any of the more pretentious colleges is akin to the fairy tale: The Emperor's New Clothes.
Unfortunately in this economy, too many kids are learning that they're deeply in educational debt after graduation, and that intellectually, they're stark naked.
Eventually I was going to try and go to Pennsylvania Gunsmithing School. Not sure yet though.
http://www.pagunsmith.edu/index.php
My initial response was a resounding NO! In our circle of friends there is absolutely no one working in the field they selected for their sheepskin. One guy I know has an economics degree and runs a successful and good-sized photography business. That being said, what one does get out of college is contacts and discipline. That can be worth it all in the long run. Interesting that the fraternity/sorority aspect of your college experience produces the most results.
As everyone has heard, it is not what you know, it is who you know.
“If you don’t mind paying $100,000 for having your child indoctrinated with communism, anti-Americanism, and anti-Christ dogma, go for it.”
On the bright side, my daughter emerged from UVM as a right winger, mostly due to her pro life views.
Howard Dean gave the commencement speech which went something like, “We won! we won!..we won!” If I had my suicide bomber vest with me, I would have taken him out.
During his speech, my daughter tected, “Yeaaaaaaaahhhhh!”
I hope to see employers start looking for practical experience over college degrees in their ads. Also hope to see them give preference to someone with NO degree when compared to someone with a flakey irrelevant major. As long as people continue to believe that a college degree with any major is a ticket to at least put them at the front of the employment line, colleges will continue to prosper and will continue to indoctrinate. We need some alternatives.
To answer the headline’s question, I would have to say ‘NO’.
$140,000 for 4 years of college is about right at the present time. Check it out.
If congress wants to investigate something, INVESTIGATE THIS!
Prediction: Middling “liberal-arts” colleges, particularly in the Northeast, will soon face hard times. Schools like Sarah Lawrence, mentioned here, have less and less to offer to middle-class parents who pay their bills. These have become PC indoctrination-camps like the others, and yet remain very expensive — but do not have the elitist cache (or money) that will see schools like Harvard through a change in society or economics.
Conservatives should take a look at reforming “big education” - and focusing more on trade schools and community colleges/remedial education, fixing the problems by poor public high schools.
Only if you're paying for your kids to be brainwashed into leftist little weenies. If you are paying for an actual education, the answer is no.
I remember the time some years ago when I wanted to transfer out of Karate and into Medical Terminology. Then they refused me since transfers were ‘closed’ and there was no space. According to the database, there was a seat or two available. Then they told me the class was halfway through (bollocks because it was only one month since starting) and they also had my money still.
They didn’t allow me to refund and after spending weeks asking EVERYONE they sent me a letter telling me to see them before enrolling again. They kept my money. The term still had at least three more months until it ended.
This has taught me that they do not want me to go there.
If you don’t mind paying $100,000 for having your child indoctrinated with communism, anti-Americanism, and anti-Christ dogma, go for it.
_______
Funny. My two college grads, one 27 and the other 24 are both gainfully employed exhibiting exactly zero of the traits you mention above. Both attended major universities here on the east coast, one in the mid Atlantic region, one in New England.
Could you find a broader brush to paint with? I didn’t think so.
“The college “retail” is not what most people pay.”
Very true. My wife and I have 2 daughters in college right now. While we could afford to pay full price for both, we don’t. We take advantage of the grants and other programs available. The big problem for me is that one day, all these “free” things are going to cost all of us plenty. I guess I should put my money where my mouth is, but I have no desire to be a financial martyr.-—JM
I'm a successful senior project manager in an engineering consulting firm, and I can assure you that even within my field (civil engineering) I don't place a lot of value on a prospective employee candidate's education. The best employees my company has had (and I will go out on a limb here and suggest that I am one of them!) over the years have been people with modest grades who never set foot in Ivy League schools or "top engineering schools" (MIT, Stanford, MIT, etc.).
I am far more interested in someone work ethic and their willingness to get their hands dirty than I am in their academic record.
The ideal civil engineer is someone who played a lot in the dirt in the backyard when he/she was a kid. It's easy to turn that kind of person into a great engineer, in my opinion.
About right?
140K is not about right. Not in these parts anyway.
Anyway, I think a college education is the most overrated expense many people pay for.
It has become a system built by communists to create more communists to give jobs to communists paid for by capitalists.
But you do have a degree, right?
It took me seven years to finish my undergraduate work -- paying my own freight at a state school on a part-time basis.
I did my master's degree over the course of six years at night -- using a combination of my own money and a stipend that my company offers as part of its benefits package.
And this is but one reason why my son has joined the Army to be a medic pending his graduation from H.S.
Sadly, I think the lesson to be drawn here is that you will never go broke underestimating how shallow people can be. I have seen too many examples of shiftless, scatterbrained numbskulls getting into high-paying management jobs where they become a hazard to all around them, simply because they had a degree from Harvard, Yale, Carnegie-Mellon, etc.
My wife got her undergrad and grad degrees the same way you describe. But her income did not become commensurate with her experience until the degrees were in place.
I got my masters that way as well - tuition reimbursement benefit.
My point is that you clearly recognize the value and importance of the degree in terms of your career. some on this thread would prefer to devalue it. I doubt any of us would have gone through the trouble if we did not think there was some kind of payoff in the end.
I do completely agree that where one went to school never much did anything for me (and I recruited for an 8 billion dollar organization for a while).
The truth of the matter is that 80% of the knowledge I require for my current position was acquired through my own work experience, and most of the remaining 20% was learned through sources other than my college education (high school, outside interests, reading, professional societies, etc.).
“...too many kids are learning...”
Well said Lou L. Here is my 2 cents worth:
Not every kid needs to go to college. Somehow, we have gotten to the point in this nation that “blue collar” jobs are somehow low rent. My wife is educated, she has a great job and she loves her work. She takes pride in her profession and the work she does. Me, I dropped out of college. It wasn’t where I wanted to go with my life. I work with my hands and the sweat of my brow. I take a great deal of pride in my work. When I see my craftsmanship, it is very fulfilling, realizing I helped create a usable object. And while I don’t make a tremendous amount, it has enabled me to provide very well for my family. If driving a truck or building a house or even flipping a burger makes you feel satisfied and happy - then go for it. There is nothing dishonorable about doing an honest task for an honest wage. We don’t all need to be “professionals”. A good mechanic, plumber,sales clerk or even a sewer cleaner is providing a much needed service to our society. The least we could do is give them a little respect.-—JM
Another bubble about to burst, college grads I work with are about the most anti-literate people I have ever met.
Next time you go in for brain surgery, be sure to ask for the dude without the sheepskin.
At the pricey Sarah Lawrence College, a typical course on four canonical U.S. authors is “Queer Americans: James, Stein, Cather, Baldwin.” Many leading schools offer similar fare.
Well that might land you a job at MSNBC or CNN, I suppose.
You're absolutely right about your work philosophy--no job is dishonorable when you're producing something. But I think there's a distinction between a trade--as you're pointing out by example--and what many would consider "traditional" blue collar jobs in factories.
I'm talking about people who's only real job is doing setup for an automated machine. Or placing finished parts into packages. Or "monitoring" gauges and indicators. Let's face it, automation is removing the need for a lot of traditional blue-collar jobs. Now, if you're a mechanic that can fix or maintain these machines, good for you. People seeking traditional blue-collar jobs have to change their way of thinking about jobs, and there's no doubt that something beyond a high school diploma will be needed in the future.
If your two college grads exmerged from academia unscathed by the Leftist dogma prevailing there, then it’s in spite of it, NOT because of it.
They are to be commended for their independent thought, their fortitude in the face of overwhelming opposition, and their ability to blinker their drooling Leftist professors into giving them passing grades in spite of their incongruent ideology.
whoa! that's a lot of dinero to experience sorority life... imo...
Scripture nails it again:
“12: And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
13: Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14: For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. “
That’s Ecclesiastes 12:12
i wonder if your daughter, knowing what she knows now, would have preferred to have gone to a state school for far less money and would like to have grammy’s 40K cash in hand right now.
And my pop-up read that Obama wants everyone to go to college.
“change their way of thinking about jobs...”
Very true. Change and new technologies are part of the job scene now. I guess really they always have been, it’s just the pace is a lot faster now. You are very correct - something beyond HS is needed. I think community colleges and trade schools could play a big role, as well as apprenticeships. IMHO, we need to set kids up to be adaptable, and that means whatever their chosen endeavor, they need to have the tools to adapt. Regardless of how I feel, if I don’t educate myself and continue to do so, I have a recipe for being left behind. A mechanic who 25 years ago refused to learn any computer technology is probably no longer in business - with out that skill set you can’t work on many modern vehicles. Lifelong learning is a now a part of our society, and to be ahead of the curve or at least keep up - you have to embrace the concept, even if you are like me and don’t particularly like change. I can fight that battle, but I will not win it.-—JM
Do these schools provide adequate info to a freshman signing for student loans?...like the percent of previous year’s graduates’ employed in what and at what salary?
If not..I see little difference between them and certain mortgage brokers/banks ...for which we all now have the privielge of underwriting...
My point is that it happens way more than you or other like minded folks seem to think.
Folks on the right are no more immune to constant media saturation than those on the left (despite what we freepers like to imagine). And given that the loudest voices tend to be those of the extreme, we get this mistaken notion that everyone in that arena is just like the loudmouth.
It is rarely informative to paint the vast middle with the tiny extreme. JMO.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.