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Colorado Springs police may sell seized firearms
Los Angeles Times ^ | August 23, 2009 | By Nicholas Riccardi

Posted on 08/24/2009 4:55:59 AM PDT by Texas Fossil

The City Council is considering a program to let the Police Department sell confiscated guns to licensed dealers. Sales could net $10,000 a year.

Reporting from Colorado Springs, Colo. - This conservative city is taking an unusual, some might say extreme, step to try to stem its fiscal woes: It's entering the gun business.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; coloradosprings; firearms; police; seized; sell
I always like the culture in Colorado Springs. Looks like their city council also has guts.

Why destroy valuable property, firearms. Sell them to reduce the budget shortfall. Sound very reasonable to me.

This is on Drudge.

1 posted on 08/24/2009 4:56:00 AM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil

bwaaaaahahahahaha - bunch of hypocritical bastards.


2 posted on 08/24/2009 4:58:27 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (The only time I want a Republican reaching across the aisle is to smack a liberal.)
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To: Texas Fossil

I could use a slightly used, in good condition Springfield Amory M1A, if they have any? Be glad to take it off their hands.


3 posted on 08/24/2009 4:58:44 AM PDT by rigelkentaurus
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To: Texas Fossil

Sweet, colorado springs isn’t that far away from me.


4 posted on 08/24/2009 4:59:42 AM PDT by Crazieman (Feb 7, 2008 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1966675/posts?page=28#28)
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To: Texas Fossil

Great idea, get them into the hands of law abiding citizens. Come to the police station and buy a gun at fair-market value, check you out for past felonies, and current arrest warrants, and get a good deal on a nice used firearm. Maybe they will stop calling me begging for money.


5 posted on 08/24/2009 5:01:51 AM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: Texas Fossil

How does one ensure that any prior illegal activities (like murders) have been expunged from connection to the firearm? For many, if not most, weapons, this would be no problem, I am sure.

But I would hate to purchase a gun previously (and unbeknownst to me) used in a cross-country crime spree.

And please don’t misunderstand. I am concerned about the law enforcement community’s reaction to the previous uses of the gun, as opposed to some nefarious aspect of the firearm itself.


6 posted on 08/24/2009 5:05:35 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: Texas Fossil
Why destroy valuable property, firearms. Sell them to reduce the budget shortfall. Sound very reasonable to me.

I see a lot of people saying this is a good thing, but this does give the police a further incentive to steal peoples' property and make a profit from selling it.

7 posted on 08/24/2009 5:10:41 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: MortMan

Firearms do not kill people, other people do.

I understand what you are saying. Have known about homes where murders took place and a lot of people would not consider buying them much less living in them after the events that took place.

Is that logical? No.

But that does not make it easier to overcome the connection to past violence? No.


8 posted on 08/24/2009 5:11:00 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (The last time I looked, this is still Texas where I live.)
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To: from occupied ga

I thought about that, and it is a valid criticism. It probably depends on state law as to how much of an issue that would be.

Knowing Colorado Springs, it will not be a problem there.

Lots of retired military. That is why it is so different from Denver.


9 posted on 08/24/2009 5:13:00 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (The last time I looked, this is still Texas where I live.)
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To: MortMan

Just keep your reciept showing date of purchase.

With the exception that someone else already noted, ...that this may make the police confiscate more weapons with an eye toward revenue enhancement...I like this idea.


10 posted on 08/24/2009 5:17:15 AM PDT by Washi
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To: Texas Fossil; All
I believe this is about confiscated weapons, not those used in the actual crime.

It provides an opportunity for some of the collectibles seized to get back into the mainstream. I know of some original Henry's, brass and iron frames, that might be in this mix.

11 posted on 08/24/2009 5:21:34 AM PDT by Pistolshot (Brevity: Saying a lot, while saying very little.)
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To: Texas Fossil
Apparently I did not phrase my final paragraph effectively.

And please don’t misunderstand. I am concerned about the law enforcement community’s reaction to the previous uses of the gun, as opposed to some nefarious aspect of the firearm itself.

In other words - the firearm is a chunck of metal. It is neither good nor evil.

But the manner in which it was used in the past can be used by some people, particularly in law enforcement, to harass the new legal owner if the sale by the city doesn't erect enough of a firewall between previous use and new management. It is the people in the equation that worry me, not the weapon.

12 posted on 08/24/2009 5:23:21 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: Texas Fossil

I just got back from spending a week at Colorado Springs for Masters National Track Cycling Championship. What a difference from Moonbatapolis. For years I have been considering moving my business there.


13 posted on 08/24/2009 5:24:01 AM PDT by Fred Hayek (From this point forward the Democratic Party will be referred to as the Communist Party)
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To: Pistolshot
I'm confused. If there was no crime, why was the weapon confiscated? If the city government is now entering the business of weapons wholesaling on the basis of taking away people's guns just because, I'd say we have the very definition of "perverse incentives".
14 posted on 08/24/2009 5:27:19 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: MortMan
I'm confused. If there was no crime, why was the weapon confiscated?

Drug raids come to mind.

15 posted on 08/24/2009 5:37:17 AM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: MortMan
These are weapons that were confiscated in relation to other crimes.

"Drugs were seized along with other weapons....etc"

That kind of thing. Not crime guns per se, but weapons found in the house or whatever. Drugs+guns=instant felony.

16 posted on 08/24/2009 5:58:22 AM PDT by Pistolshot (Brevity: Saying a lot, while saying very little.)
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To: Texas Fossil
The usual L.A. Times hysteria and anti-gun nonsense. Guns seized as weapons used in crimes are kept in evidence lockers, sometimes for decades, because the case might be reopened or the scumbag in prison might get a new trial.

(That is, except here in Minnesota. Google "Metro Gang Strike Force" for more information.)

Most guns that wind up in police department possession are stolen ones that have been recovered but can't be traced back to a legal owner, or that the owner doesn't want back because he's already collected the insurance money. The St. Paul PD used to include guns in their regular auctions of unclaimed property, and they were 90% duck-hunting shotguns and .22 rifles. Why *not* auction them just like cars and bicycles?

17 posted on 08/24/2009 6:14:07 AM PDT by Lucretia Borgia (I will be happy to show Obama the same respect the Democrats gave Reagan, Bush, and Palin.)
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To: Texas Fossil

I used to work for a federal government agency that (once upon a time) resold seized firearms.

First, the firearm couldn’t be even considered for sale until it was officially gov’t property - IOW, after the case had been adjudicated and the bad guy in question found guilty.

Second, we sifted through all the crap and destroyed probably 70-80% of it. You’d be amazed, some of the guns that bad guys carry. They’re more dangerous to the shooter than anyone else.

Third, it was typically done in a sealed bid auction. “Lot of 200 miscellaneous revolvers,” or “lot of 500 pieces of assorted SKS parts,” stuff like that. The big guys like Sarco were the ones that really got involved in it. Whenever you see one of those “we found these in a government warehouse” ads, it usually means they bought it at auction.

Of course, Clinton ended all that. The last sale for my old agency made the gov’t over $1 million dollars.


18 posted on 08/24/2009 6:23:07 AM PDT by Terabitten (Vets wrote a blank check, payable to the Constitution, for an amount up to and including their life.)
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To: from occupied ga
I see a lot of people saying this is a good thing, but this does give the police a further incentive to steal peoples' property and make a profit from selling it.

There's a lot of layers between seizure and sale. It's virtually impossible (not to mention horrendously stupid) to seize a gun specifically to sell it.

19 posted on 08/24/2009 6:26:17 AM PDT by Terabitten (Vets wrote a blank check, payable to the Constitution, for an amount up to and including their life.)
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To: Fred Hayek

Come on over. I work for a small software company in Co Spgs started by a conservative from California.

Great business climate, political climate, social climate, and climate climate.

:-)


20 posted on 08/24/2009 6:33:58 AM PDT by rdax
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To: Fred Hayek

Unfortunately the State of Colorado is quite unlike the City of Colorado Springs. And unlike fly-over country all over the State. I love the Western Slope away from Touristaville. Euray, Montrose, Carbondale, Montavista and others.

I love Colorado, and the people in Colorado. Except those who dislike Texans. Could tell you stories about that, but not here.

I do not like the way State Government is run in Colorado. Too many entrenched Tree Huger Types. As a consequence I could never live there.


21 posted on 08/24/2009 6:56:09 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (The last time I looked, this is still Texas where I live.)
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To: Texas Fossil

This should be a no-brainer.


22 posted on 08/24/2009 6:57:47 AM PDT by Tribune7 (I am Jim Thompson!)
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To: Terabitten

The article mentions that they have no intentions of selling to the public. Only to dealers.

I will bet your “agency” is far different now than what it was then.


23 posted on 08/24/2009 6:59:04 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (The last time I looked, this is still Texas where I live.)
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To: Texas Fossil
I just spent the weekend there on business. It's an understatement to say it's a great town with very nice people. A big military presence. My hotel was crawling with Chair Force types in town for a seminar or something.

Anyplace that smells like a pine forest is all right by me.

I mountain biked at 12,600 ft; I can now die happy.

24 posted on 08/24/2009 7:03:23 AM PDT by I Buried My Guns
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To: Terabitten
It's virtually impossible (not to mention horrendously stupid) to seize a gun specifically to sell it.

Yes, and so what? Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I was not referring to police seizing specific guns (and I don't know how you came up with this since I didn't say it.) My concern that was the police would increase their overall seizure activity as another form of fund raising to go along with the asset seizure of the so-called "war on drugs" Kind of like having a ticket quota, they would have a guns seizure quota looking for flimsey excuses to steal peoples' property under the color of law - you know like they do with cash now.

25 posted on 08/24/2009 7:05:51 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: I Buried My Guns

The thing I noticed about the law enforcement of that town: In downtown is a block-long area with all the cool bars where the young people go. At the end of the block is a DUI checkpoint, with a police motorhome for giving blood samples. Very convenient.


26 posted on 08/24/2009 7:12:37 AM PDT by I Buried My Guns
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To: I Buried My Guns

“I Buried My Guns”

Not me, and some of mine are loaded.

The military officer retirement community in Colorado Springs helps make it a wonderful place. It has been a long time since I was there, but it is a beautiful place.

There was a great little German restaurant and bakery there called the “Mother Rhine”. Enjoyed some really great food there.

For the past 30+ years I have baked bread for my friends and family. Places like the “Mother Rhine” really interest me.


27 posted on 08/24/2009 7:13:55 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (The last time I looked, this is still Texas where I live.)
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To: Texas Fossil
The article mentions that they have no intentions of selling to the public. Only to dealers.

Right. The dealers then typically re-sell to the public.

I will bet your “agency” is far different now than what it was then.

Yes, I'm sure Customs & Border Protection, the largest law enforcement agency in the nation, is much different than it was when I left it three weeks ago. :)

28 posted on 08/24/2009 7:30:57 AM PDT by Terabitten (Vets wrote a blank check, payable to the Constitution, for an amount up to and including their life.)
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To: from occupied ga
My concern that was the police would increase their overall seizure activity as another form of fund raising to go along with the asset seizure of the so-called "war on drugs"

Sorry for the misunderstanding, however, my general point still stands. I don't think there's much incentive for the individual officer to seize a gun (or fifty, for that matter) that wouldn't have been seized anyway, when he/she will likely never see any actual return from the seizure other than in the most general sense possible.

They're already seizing these guns. The question is, what do they do with them after the case is adjudicated? They can't keep them forever -- they have to do something with them. Typically the options are either to destroy it or sell it, or in very rare cases, donate it to a museum or something like that.

Since my old agency stopped doing sales, I've destroyed literally THOUSANDS of Beretta 96s and Glock 17s, hundreds of Ruger 10-22s, and Lord only knows how many AK variants. It was a shame, but we weren't allowed to do anything else with them.

Of course, we also destroyed oodles of crappy little Jennings/Lorcin/Cobra/Brycos, Hi-Points, and tons of guns that had been 'home gunsmithed' in ways you don't even want to think about LOL.

29 posted on 08/24/2009 7:39:42 AM PDT by Terabitten (Vets wrote a blank check, payable to the Constitution, for an amount up to and including their life.)
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To: Texas Fossil

I went to a police auction in Oklahoma years ago. the goods were seized or confiscated and unclaimed property, mostly household goods, and a table of guns. Most of them were junk, a few good ones were also in the pile.

Every thing went cheap. Around noon, there went through the crowd something like an electrical charge. They became extremely animated and surged toward the gun table! They were now selling the guns!

The auctioneer had quite a time witht he crowd! Many people were bidding way up all the guns. I could not believe it as even the junk guns were selling for new prices.

I have been to several farm auctions where guns were sold. They were always bid way up, and most went for way more than they were worth.

Back in the days before the 1968 gun control act guns went for a very low bids at auctions. The constant fear of government controls since 1968 has changed all that.


30 posted on 08/24/2009 7:45:23 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Tar and feather the sons of bi#ches! Ride them out of town on a rail!)
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To: Texas Fossil; MortMan
I think MortMan’s concern is being accused of a crime committed with a weapon before you actually owned it.

I could see the anticonstitutional eneMedia blaring “Murder Weapon Found in Home of Texas Fossil!” Even though the crime was committed years years ago.

Here's another issue; it's different but interesting. A Freeper posted that he was picked up by the police because they traced a gun he owned to a murder. He had reported it stolen. Fortunately, he made bail and found the report. We have to be on guard against a hostile press and incompetent police.

31 posted on 08/24/2009 8:00:07 AM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear
We have to be on guard against a hostile press and incompetent police.

Yes, that is true. And now we have another dimension approaching us, "corrupt" Federal Police. This is in the near future if we do not stop this Federal Power Grab now. Now, not later, it must stop Now.

32 posted on 08/24/2009 8:13:54 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (The last time I looked, this is still Texas where I live.)
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To: MortMan

I was very surprised to learn from my brother in Georgia that a large caliber pistol which had been stolen by his own son - a druggie who burgled bro’s store - was recovered during another crime way up in Chicago......and returned to him.


33 posted on 08/24/2009 8:18:34 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (Impeach now....not next month... now)
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To: MortMan

Get a bill of sale. Any crimes committed using the gun before the date on the bill obviously have nothing to do with you. Plus the dealer from whom you purchased it should have documentation showing that he bought it from the local LEO’s. So not only did it not belong to you during those crimes, but it’s been police property in between.


34 posted on 08/24/2009 9:41:18 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: from occupied ga
I see a lot of people saying this is a good thing, but this does give the police a further incentive to steal peoples' property and make a profit from selling it.

Excellent point. I would want there to be safeguards in place to make sure that due process was actually being followed. (unlike what is done thee days in the case of most forfieture related to the "wod").  For instance, the person would actually have to have been convicted of a crime that was directly related to the firearm in question.

35 posted on 08/24/2009 10:07:31 AM PDT by zeugma (Will it be nukes or aliens? Time will tell.)
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To: DYngbld
Drug raids come to mind.

I see. As long as drug possession is alleged, it's o.k. to steal people's property. Cool.

36 posted on 08/24/2009 10:11:17 AM PDT by zeugma (Will it be nukes or aliens? Time will tell.)
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To: Texas Fossil

Should any crimes be committed with the guns sold by the city, may we then sue to put them out of business? Please?


37 posted on 08/24/2009 10:44:07 AM PDT by DPMD (~)
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To: zeugma
Drug raids come to mind.

I see. As long as drug possession is alleged, it's o.k. to steal people's property. Cool.

Oh no I am not saying it is alright. It is just the law in some states.

38 posted on 08/24/2009 10:57:59 AM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: Texas Fossil
You wrote: " Sell them to reduce the budget shortfall. Sound very reasonable to me. "<

In view of the following, that doesn't sound reasonable to me!

Amendment 5

- Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation


39 posted on 08/24/2009 2:27:05 PM PDT by An Old Man (Use it up, Wear it out, Make it do, or Do without.)
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To: MortMan

i wouldn’t buy one of those....with the way the Police arrest people with their computers, its a disaster waiting to happen!


40 posted on 08/24/2009 2:29:26 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Pray for Israel! And Georgia ! And the Iranian people! and Honduras!)
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To: Pistolshot

confiscate? From who? Gang members, violent criminals, drug dealers?

And what are the odds that these guns were used in a Previous, yet unsolved crime. I would not take a chance...I would rather pay a little extra than have to lawyer my way out of a later ‘arrest” cause the weapon was used somehwere 5 yrs ago!


41 posted on 08/24/2009 2:31:48 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Pray for Israel! And Georgia ! And the Iranian people! and Honduras!)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
Weapons USED in a crime never leave the evidence lockers.

Weapons SEIZED during an arrest and not connected to a crime are kept.

THESE are the ones going up for sale.

Pay attention to the difference there.

Example. Your girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever, files a Domestic Violence charge against you and it sticks. GUESS WHAT...your weapons are confiscated, since you can't have them by law.

Guess where those are going? Up for sale.

42 posted on 08/24/2009 3:24:41 PM PDT by Pistolshot (Brevity: Saying a lot, while saying very little.)
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To: Pistolshot

And where was the gun used BEFORE they were confiscated?

My sense is that if a gun is confiscated, they are usually confiscated from people already somehow more likely to be involved in, and get guns from people who are involved in criminal activities. Ergo, the chances of that weapon having a “history “ is more likely.

I am very dubious of police record keeping...perhaps I am wrong here...and that adds to the “odds’ that while the police may ‘check’ the gun to see if it has a history, mistakes are more likely to happen.

BTW, you don’t have to be partonizing...I could have as easily said ‘see the difference’... but i was trying to just have an opinion on the odds.


43 posted on 08/24/2009 4:11:41 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Pray for Israel! And Georgia ! And the Iranian people! and Honduras!)
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To: Grizzled Bear

Thanks for your opinion...I got flamed cause of just such a scenario I was concerned about...see my response in post 43...

What’s wrong with an open discussion to present possibillities...? I spent 3 hours in jail because of a ‘computer “ error...it all worked out, but I had to get an attorney to straighten out the mess. When we got it straight and I walked out of the courtroom to the DMV records clerk to check...Sure enough! It hadn’t been changed and my attorney dealt with it right then.
Sheeet happens and I am more cautious now.


44 posted on 08/24/2009 4:18:02 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Pray for Israel! And Georgia ! And the Iranian people! and Honduras!)
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To: An Old Man

I am not a legal authority. I understand the concept of just compensation.

The issue of how the weapons were seized would determine if it were an issue or not. I am sure there are circumstances where the law has been abused, but if the weapons were taken from someone committing burglary or drug trafficking it would seem reasonable.

Knowing Colorado Springs, I doubt the abuse would be an issue. In Chicago, then that is another matter.

I admit I do not have an informed opinion on the issue you cited.


45 posted on 08/24/2009 9:30:10 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (The last time I looked, this is still Texas where I live.)
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