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Martial arts instructors condemn bully bashing
National Post [Canada] ^ | Tuesday, August 25, 2009 | Matt Preprost

Posted on 08/25/2009 7:56:39 AM PDT by canuck_conservative

WINNIPEG -- Martial arts instructors are condemning a Winnipeg mother's decision to enrol her bullied son in kick-boxing classes and give him permission to retaliate against his tormentors.

The mother, who asked not to be named, gave her son the green light to "kick the snot out of " his alleged tormentor when school starts next month.....

The mother said a bully has been tormenting her son for years. Both boys are in their early teens, and have attended the same school in Louis Riel School Division.

"It's about time he took a stand and stood up for himself," she said in a recent interview with the Free Press. "He has my full permission to kick the snot out of [the other boy] if he comes up to him."

Mr. Beltran and Mr. Pabuaya both stressed that selfdefence preaches mental discipline before physical training. Both emphasize verbal interaction to avoid heated confrontations.....

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalpost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fightingback; martialarts; nullies; selfdefense
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1 posted on 08/25/2009 7:56:40 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative

2 posted on 08/25/2009 7:58:11 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: canuck_conservative

I agree with the mom..kick the snot out of him. How many years of bullying is one supposed to take? (Since bullies seem to grow up to be SEIU/Acorn types lets teach them lessons earlier in life.)


3 posted on 08/25/2009 8:00:46 AM PDT by Lets Be Frank
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To: canuck_conservative
If you can walk away, walk away.
If you can't walk away go stark raving, snot out of the nose, foaming at the mouth crazy on them.
4 posted on 08/25/2009 8:01:07 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: canuck_conservative

So the kid should just shut up and allow himself to be used as a punching bag?

How lame.


5 posted on 08/25/2009 8:01:36 AM PDT by LongElegantLegs (It takes a viking to raze a village!)
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To: canuck_conservative
Why are martial arts instructors such wusses, atleast verbally ?

If you want to stop a bully, let him know you're willing to stand up and fight.

6 posted on 08/25/2009 8:04:09 AM PDT by MetaThought
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To: canuck_conservative

Good for mom!


7 posted on 08/25/2009 8:05:39 AM PDT by knittnmom ("...only dead fish 'go with the flow'". - Sarah Palin 7/09)
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To: Just another Joe

That is pretty much the way I feel about this type of situation.


8 posted on 08/25/2009 8:06:36 AM PDT by skimask
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To: xcamel

"In a heart that is one with nature, though the body contends, there is no violence, and in the heart that is not one with nature, though the body be at rest, there is always violence. Be, therefore, like the prow of a boat. It cleaves water, yet it leaves in its wake water unbroken."

9 posted on 08/25/2009 8:07:26 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: canuck_conservative
The whole "Martial Arts is supposed to be used only as the last resort" thing is such a myth. I know thats what they TEACH you in MA classes, but the truth is, those skills are used by jerks much more often than they are used as a last resort.

We've mystified the (Asian) Martial Arts so much in the west, its pathetic, which is why I was such a huge fan of Mixed Martial Arts, when it showed that hey, its just another way to fight.

This kid needs to be shown how he can be quiet, confident, and avoid confrontation when he can. But when he can't, he needs to be able to defend himself with whatever means neccessary.

I have two young sons, whom I plan on personally teaching some wrestling skills, as well as enrolling them in martian/mixed arts classes, and hell yes, they'll know that if they must, then they have my permission to defend themselves, and that incluces kicking the snot out of someone.

However, something that I found out is that, once you have that confidence, you will seldom, if ever, actually need to do it. Other kids will just know..

10 posted on 08/25/2009 8:08:20 AM PDT by Paradox (ObamaCare = Logan's Run ; There is no Sanctuary!)
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To: MetaThought
Why are martial arts instructors such wusses, atleast verbally ?

L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y

11 posted on 08/25/2009 8:08:34 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: xcamel

The guiding principle of martial arts is SELF-DEFENSE. It is not intended as an offensive art; no responsible Black Belt will ever knowinly teach this art to someone who has the intention of using it as a weapon.

Consider, it is far, far easier to kill and maim; than it is to simply beat up. The ‘Beat Up’ is an advanced belt training level, and it typically found in the movies.

The lower belts learn to break arms by hyper-extended the elbow, blinding the opponent (permanently, as in sticking the fingers into the eyes until they hit bone), breaking the knee with a kick placed do cause the knee to buckle and let the opponents weight do the breaking; they are taught to strike the throat to rupture the juglar, the knife strike to rupture the diaphram (ie make them suffocate on their own blood), and to strike the skill at the bump in the back of your head (take out Obdula Oblongata).

Is this what you are telling the instructor to do; teach a student bent on revenge, so that he will kill another?

Having taken years of this; I agree with the teacher. Martial arts are NOT like the Kung Fu flicks where people get slapped about and fall down, then run off threatening to teach them a lesson next time.

Martial arts are designed to Kill, much like a sword. You do not beat someone up with a sword.


12 posted on 08/25/2009 8:09:23 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Just what the h3ll is that about?


13 posted on 08/25/2009 8:09:30 AM PDT by texmexis best (uencynd no)
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To: MetaThought
Why are martial arts instructors such wusses, atleast verbally ?

Fear of lawsuits.

14 posted on 08/25/2009 8:11:27 AM PDT by ConfusedAndLovingIt
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To: Just another Joe
If you can't walk away go stark raving, snot out of the nose, foaming at the mouth crazy on them.

Bingo. You don't start a fight. But if a confrontation is unavoidable hold nothing back, there is no prize for second place in a street fight.

The thing I blame the mother for is advertising this. You keep your mouth shut about what you can do. The best chance you have against a bully is to catch them by surprise. "Know your enemy, know yourself and you will fight a hundred battles and never loose. - Sun Tzu". You want to keep the enemy ignorant of your strengths until it is too late for them to do anything about it. In other words, don't brag, just do. With luck and skill the bully finds himself laying on the ground looking at the sky through swollen eyes and wondering what just happened. While you walk quietly away.
15 posted on 08/25/2009 8:12:24 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world, and they are all out to get me.)
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To: Hodar
Ok.. your Sensei apparently deprived you of the “irony” and ‘humor’ parts of your lessons.
16 posted on 08/25/2009 8:14:12 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: B-Chan
Exactly. I took an extended self defense class. We were warned - as adults - that if you are involved in an altercation and end up beating the crap out of someone that you are quite likely to be sued in civil court.

If you overdo it and really hurt someone, there may be criminal charges filed in some jurisdictions.

And if you have to testify under oath that you have had special training for self defense, the right kind of lawyer can talk a jury into bankrupting you.

Still, the skills are very useful to have.

17 posted on 08/25/2009 8:14:41 AM PDT by willgolfforfood
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To: B-Chan
L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y

In a nutshell.

18 posted on 08/25/2009 8:15:41 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: canuck_conservative

Self defense is just that. You defend yourself if attacked. Discipline means that you don’t go looking for confrontation, but you handle it if it comes Your way.

Discipline also means that you only use the force necessary to eliminate the threat, be it warning, bruising, breaking, maiming or killing.

So the kid, when confronted by the bully, says “I don’t want to hurt you”, and if pressed follows it up with a warning block and counterblow. After that the bully gets to choose if and how badly he gets hurt!


19 posted on 08/25/2009 8:16:29 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: canuck_conservative

The kid should know how to defend himself but the escalation of the violence isn’t the answer. Where are the teachers that allow a kid to be bullied for years?

How about this. Send the kid to martial arts school, have a sitdown with the school, the kid’s parents and the local police. If it happens one more time, the bully goes to juvie, the parents of the brat get sued, the teachers get suspended.


20 posted on 08/25/2009 8:16:40 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: texmexis best
"...Just what the h3ll is that about?"

Grasshopper, when you can take this stone from my hand, you will have learned.

21 posted on 08/25/2009 8:16:49 AM PDT by I Buried My Guns
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To: ConfusedAndLovingIt

Thats just it. Imagine yourself explaining what you did to a jury and wonding what you are going to say during cross.

Almost better and certainly cheaper to endure the beatdown.


22 posted on 08/25/2009 8:17:14 AM PDT by rahbert
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To: Just another Joe
If you can't walk away go stark raving, snot out of the nose, foaming at the mouth crazy on them.

I did that to a bully once who just wouldn't leave me alone. One day he came up alongside of me and sucker-punched me. I went ballistic on him until the adults pulled us apart. When it was over, he was the one crying, not me.

He never bothered me again.
23 posted on 08/25/2009 8:19:22 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Welcome to the Revolution.)
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To: canuck_conservative
Lets take a look at some of the so-called wisdom imparted by these "teachers" and "experts":

"If it builds his self-esteem, it can be a good thing," said Brenda Morrison, professor of criminology at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia. "[But] it's better to walk away. Aggression usually breeds further violence. You can't get to a good place in a bad way."
Golly, Brenda it never occurred to ANYONE to walk-away...thanks for that. But here in the real world the bullies usually take that as a sign of weakness and it only encourages them.

"Martial arts is not about kicking and punching," said Sonny Pabuaya, instructor at Iron Fist Tae Kwon Do in Winnipeg. "That's a misconception people have because that's what they see in the movies."
So says the man who spends his days teaching people how to kick and punch.

"Violence only invokes more violence," said Diego Beltran, who runs Guardian Dojo-Kyokushin Karate Canada Inc. in Winnipeg. "I'm in total disagreement with the lady."
Violence, aimed at the appropriate person or persons, usually results in peace. I think Mr. Beltran must moonlight at the U.N. crafting "strongly worded protests" to tyrants that are busy murdering.

24 posted on 08/25/2009 8:19:36 AM PDT by AreaMan
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To: canuck_conservative

One of my Squad Leaders taught his wife’s son from a previous marriage how to hit since he was being bullied at school. My Squad Leader told him to go to school the next day and beat up the bully. Not only walk up and hit him, but hit him until he was too exhausted to hit anymore.

The kid did, he got expelled, but I’ll bet that bully thinks twice before screwing with other kids.


25 posted on 08/25/2009 8:19:59 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater ("Get out of the boat and walk on the water with us!”--Sen. Joe Biden)
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To: Paradox
However, something that I found out is that, once you have that confidence, you will seldom, if ever, actually need to do it.

Correct. Walk with a purpose, keep your head up, and look the bullies right in the eye. The body language of a kid with confidence usually makes bullies look elsewhere for a victim. If a kid has to defend himself, his objective should be to humiliate the bully in front of his friends, not to break bones or 'kick the snot' out of him.

26 posted on 08/25/2009 8:20:41 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: willgolfforfood
And if you have to testify under oath that you have had special training for self defense...

Take the Fifth Amendment protection; that's what it's for.

27 posted on 08/25/2009 8:21:22 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: canuck_conservative

28 posted on 08/25/2009 8:21:47 AM PDT by Peter Horry (Never were abilities so much below mediocrity so well rewarded - John Randolph)
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To: I Buried My Guns

Well mister-Po’-fancy-pants-trailer-park-trash-philosopher, how about if I just shoot it out of your hand with a .45-70 from 1,000 yards? Steel sights....

Weall do things a bit differently in Texas, y’know....


29 posted on 08/25/2009 8:22:44 AM PDT by texmexis best (uencynd no)
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To: canuck_conservative

***Martial arts instructors are condemning a Winnipeg mother’s decision to enrol her bullied son in kick-boxing classes and give him permission to retaliate against his tormentors. ***

And what is wrong with that? Even Hiram Maxim, the inventor of the Maxim machine gun, would frequent bars just to beat up the local bar bullies.


30 posted on 08/25/2009 8:24:17 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Tar and feather the sons of bi#ches! Ride them out of town on a rail!)
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To: xcamel
My instructor taught me ONLY the humor moves.

I *kill* 'em up there, man, they are DYING laughin....

31 posted on 08/25/2009 8:25:43 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("If they taxed condoms and toilet paper, they'd have us coming and going." - Lazamataz, 2002)
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To: reagan_fanatic
He never bothered me again.

Ralphie?

32 posted on 08/25/2009 8:25:51 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (The townhalls were going great until the oPods showed up.)
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To: MetaThought

I agree w/you. When I was a kid my Dad told me that the only way to deal with a bully is to take him head on. I had a kid two grades above me (10 to 12 yr old)go after me every chance he got. One day he came at me and I turned around and punched him as hard as I could in his nose. He fell and from that time on he never bothered me again. Amen.


33 posted on 08/25/2009 8:26:11 AM PDT by gakrak
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To: canuck_conservative

There are two kinds of martial arts schools. One kind is derisively called a “McDojo”, because it plays to the illusion that martial arts is about something other than a dirt-dog brawl, and is more like a dance class. In a real fight, a black belt from such a school is useful only in holding someone’s pants up.

To understand a real martial arts school, is to leave the popular illusion of the idealized America, and see the vicious brutality of the world, often life-or-death brutality. For many years, such schools were forbidden in the Soviet Union, and their practitioners faced death, so practiced and taught students in secret. Finally it was realized that these brutal and sometimes murderous techniques would be of great value, and they were legalized and embraced. Even Russia’s ex-president Putin is a serious Judoka, a skill he had to learn as a member of the Soviet Army’s intelligence service, the GRU.

But both styles of America school discourage learning for “immediate revenge”. The McDojo’s, because it will become painfully clear that what they teach is worthless; and the serious schools, because they know that it takes much practice, strength and endurance, to learn how to fight.

The irony of becoming a serious martial artist is that it changes ones “countenance”, that most villains will spot and avoid, seeking easier prey. This means that unless they go looking for trouble, martial artists rarely get into fights.

The exception being those with fools who are blurred by alcohol, who would offer to punch a 500 pound gorilla, or a police officer with a Taser.

Martial arts also teaches diplomacy, because students learn who not to fight, because they would likely lose, so they had better be adept at avoiding conflict.


34 posted on 08/25/2009 8:26:19 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: canuck_conservative

Bunch of weasel “martial arts” instructors you got there up north.

A real one would have imparted this wisdom:

Never strike the first blow. Always strike the last blow.


35 posted on 08/25/2009 8:27:23 AM PDT by ex 98C MI Dude (All of my hate cannot be found, I will not be drowned by your constant scheming)
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To: canuck_conservative
I recommend krav maga for self defense.
36 posted on 08/25/2009 8:27:25 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
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To: Just another Joe
I teach my kids that ugly things happen in fights (been there, done that). It's always best to walk away, or to talk your way out of it. My mouth got me out of trouble almost as fast as it got me into it.

However, if there's no other choice, when you fight, you fight to win. Clobber the #$@##@$% with everything that you've got. We'll sort out the consequences later.

There will always be bullies, and kids that get bullied. The kids that don't fall into either category will always be the best off.

37 posted on 08/25/2009 8:29:15 AM PDT by wbill
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To: canuck_conservative

My martial arts instructor never said not to defend yourself, just told us to avoid fights when you could. Some people don’t respect you unless you stand up to them was my experience in school. I made friends, of sorts, with one real turd of a bully by being willing to stand up to him. The public schools really drum pacifist attitudes into the kids nowadays I have noticed as my son has gone through school.


38 posted on 08/25/2009 8:31:44 AM PDT by dog breath
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To: MetaThought
Litigation, of course: “My son was beaten into a pulp by one of your students using martial arts; he lost teeth, etc. I'm suing you for medical expenses, pain, and suffering - here's your subpoena!”

It might be a long-shot lawsuit, but, these days, why take a chance?

39 posted on 08/25/2009 8:33:02 AM PDT by Little Ray (Obama is a kamikaze president aimed at the heart of this Republic.)
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To: canuck_conservative
I promised you, dad, not to do the things you done.
I walk away from trouble when I can.
Now please dont think Im weak, I didnt turn the other cheek,
And papa, I sure hope you understand:
Sometimes you gotta fight when youre a man.

40 posted on 08/25/2009 8:36:07 AM PDT by nitzy (Take your pick: Globalism OR Limited Government)
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To: GonzoGOP
But if a confrontation is unavoidable hold nothing back, there is no prize for second place in a street fight.

My step-son had a bully attacking him for years. He asked me what to do, I advised him to 'Pick his Battles Wisely'. He waited till the last day of school one year and when the bully came over he beat the snot out of him.

He was taken to the school office and the administrator, who told him not to do any violence again, that he was surprised at him (having be a quiet boy for years). Yet there was no punishment, for it was well know that the bully had been at it with many other kids.

The Bully never came back, because he could never figure out when my stepson would explode again. My stepson has since graduated from Valley Forge Military college (yes, that Valley Forge) and is now a Staff Sargent in the Airforce.

Yes, he learned to choose his battles wisely.

41 posted on 08/25/2009 8:36:41 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: canuck_conservative

the whole point of martial arts is so you get a kick in and then either have enough time to run away or pull out your weapon. But a martial arts ‘fight’ is stupid. You’ll probably get thrown on concrete or screwed if the bully has friends and/or weapons.


42 posted on 08/25/2009 8:40:31 AM PDT by ari-freedom (Obama acted stupidly...and that's after knowing all the facts.)
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To: reagan_fanatic

Post 23

Is that you, Ralphie (fight with Scut Farkus, a Christmas Story).... I also learned that it doesn’t hurt if everyone thinks you are just a little crazy.


43 posted on 08/25/2009 8:40:45 AM PDT by Peter Horry (Never were abilities so much below mediocrity so well rewarded - John Randolph)
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To: Just another Joe
If you can't walk away go stark raving, snot out of the nose, foaming at the mouth crazy on them.

At last one day my big chance came to get back at the bully. Unfortunately, that day my nose was totally congested and my mouth was dry. No snot, no slobber.

He beat me to a pulp.

44 posted on 08/25/2009 8:41:39 AM PDT by Drawsing (The fool shows his annoyance at once. The prudent man overlooks an insult. (Proverbs 12:16))
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To: Hodar
Is this what you are telling the instructor to do; teach a student bent on revenge, so that he will kill another?

This isn't about revenge. It is about a kid being kicked silly daily and finally having the means to defend himself. The mother is telling her son to beat the snot out of this other kid if he is attacked again and it is very likely he will be. Are you advocating this kid simply keep taking beatings from another when he has the means to defend himself?

When people attack others, they deserve what they get, even if it is death or maiming. Don't want to die or be maimed? Don't attack someone without just cause(I.E. self defense). I hope this kid beats the sh** out of the bully if he is attacked again. He may actually save some other kids life, because quite frequently bullies grow up to be violent criminals if they are never brought to taks.

45 posted on 08/25/2009 8:43:28 AM PDT by calex59
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To: canuck_conservative
"Martial arts is not about kicking and punching," said Sonny Pabuaya, instructor at Iron Fist Tae Kwon Do...

Okay.

46 posted on 08/25/2009 8:46:59 AM PDT by decimon
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To: Hodar

“Obdula Oblongata”? Where, O master of martial arts, is this part of the body located? I can detect no “Obdula Oblongata” in any medical text.


47 posted on 08/25/2009 8:47:10 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: AreaMan

“But here in the real world the bullies usually take that as a sign of weakness and it only encourages them”

Walking away, or even running away can be an advantage sometimes. My uncle was confronted by a bully at a school dance one time and ran into the rest room, when the bully came in after him (my uncle was waiting for him) it was... “Katie bar the door”. They talked about that fight for years afterwards.


48 posted on 08/25/2009 8:52:25 AM PDT by Peter Horry (Never were abilities so much below mediocrity so well rewarded - John Randolph)
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To: ari-freedom
You’ll probably get thrown on concrete...

My grandson has been in a mixed MA class for 5 years now. They only 'spar' -- kicks, punches etc., once a month. They practice ground techniques each and every class. Most fights end up on the ground and if you can't handle yourself there, you will lose.

49 posted on 08/25/2009 8:52:28 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: Drawsing
At last one day my big chance came to get back at the bully. Unfortunately, that day my nose was totally congested and my mouth was dry. No snot, no slobber.

You mean you didn't even fart in his general direction?

50 posted on 08/25/2009 8:52:31 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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