Skip to comments.Doctors ready to 'just say no' (Majority won't accept new patients under government plan)
Posted on 08/25/2009 9:45:23 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
My fellow physicians and I share one interesting thing in common with professionals in the federal government: We all take an oath relating to our jobs.
A physician pledges to "apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism." We also pledge to "remember that [we] do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability."
A federal employee pledges to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic ... ."
Will the federal employees who implement a government-run health care option begin to take the Hippocratic Oath in addition to their traditional oath of office?
Will federal bureaucrats pledge to keep in mind the human consequences of their decisions? Will they pledge, as doctors do, to "remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug"?
I suspect they will not.
President Obama has said over and over that if you like your doctor you'll be able to keep your doctor. This is patently false. If a physician opts not to sign on to a government-run option, and the government-run plan is what you're stuck with, you will lose your doctor. It's as simple and as terrible as that.
The moral lines drawn by my oath are very clear to me. I know they cannot be honored when working with a government system. I will stand my ground and refuse to work with a plan run by people who do not share my oath. Research indicates I am not alone in this position -- but am, in fact, in the majority.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
I am guessing these doctors do not want to depend on the gubment to pay them.... Like the auto dealers that are waiting and waiting and waiting to be repaid for cash for clunkers
All we need is the spark....
It better come before the “fuel” becomes too diluted.
...I love my family doctor; he’s my kind of guy...(he just bought 3000 rounds of .45 ammo)....he hates the thought of government run health care...and moreover, he feels that there simply are not enough doctors in the US to carry it out....plus, Obamacare will be such a fiasco that nobody will want to go to Med School.
President Obama has said over and over that if you like your doctor you’ll be able to keep your doctor. This is patently false. If a physician opts not to sign on to a government-run option, and the government-run plan is what you’re stuck with, you will lose your doctor. It’s as simple and as terrible as that.
I think these doctors should make up a little flyer saying
this statement...and pass it out to their patients starting now....
Count me in with the 60%.
This is the crux of the matter. Doctors are professionals, not automatons. They don’t deliver an product like a TV or an electric skillet that can be regulated by law.
Medicine is not an exact science ... not like, say, engineering. Doctors make judgement calls every day. Sometimes they are wrong. Sometime they have to make an (educated) guess or engage in ‘rule out the variables’ tactics.
No large scale bureaucracy (government or private) can effectively administer something as imprecise and as variable as medicine.
“I am guessing these doctors do not want to depend on the gubment to pay them.... “
can’t blame them...for their Medicare and Medicaid patients, they make pennies on the dollar. If a public option passes and doctors, en mass, refuse those patients, the government will have to force the doctors to see them. What good is insurance if you can’t find a doc.
Social engineering fails everytime it’s tried.
I’m proud of these doctors that refuse to follow the dictates of the government!
Treating to protocol is dangerous medicine!
Glimmer of hope! I mean the real hope, not that crap bam is peddling.
Just one reason 0bama will not get away with the claim, people may be ignorant of many things, they are not ignorant of their own experiences, history.
****Treating to protocol is dangerous medicine!****
Yep. Bureaucratic health care is bad medicine.
Which is why at some point, there will be no private physicians, every person who wishes to practice medicine will be under the umbrella of the federal government, socialized system. It is inevitable ... and already legislated, the language whereby some *panel* (forgive my euphemism) will be assigning particular people to particular specialties, particular physicians to particular geographic locations. There are FReepers who say we are making things up, "That's not in the bill", etc., when we warn of rationing, losing the ability to contract with a private physician in order to get what you need/want. They apparently cannot see what is clearly down the road should the basic structure of socialized medicine begin here in America. It is that reason why there can be no bill passed whatever, no silly *compromise" with Republicans.
It is possible to assist those in true need without this horror.
You make that seem like something that "might" happen. Just to let you know, all hospital based employees are de-facto government agents through the EMTALA laws. We've already got "universal" coverage.
It is against the law for any ER physician to ask or obtain information related to payment prior to completing a medical screening exam.
It is against the law for the ER physician or hospital to transfer patients to another facility if they offer the same level of care and are able to provide that service regardless of ability to pay.
It is illegal for a hospital to deny acceptance of a patient if that facility offers a service that a transferring hospital is not able to provide. ..... you see where I'm going with this.
There are solutions to the "crisis" but what the government wants is to get its hands on the MONEY that the insurance companies have. I've waited and waited for someone to just think about this whole scam of "universal" health care.
Socialism/Fascism is the government control of the means of production.
Think about this.... what makes our country "work"... factories, people, natural resources..etc, etc....
The government controls the banks, it now controls the major brokerage houses, it controls the unions and regulates businesses by environmental and work related legislation.... so now all that is left is the most important thing.. MONEY.
The biggest pot of money ... CASH... is in the hands of insurance companies. They have to invest in order to cover the cost that you may incur during any period of time... they calculate risk, payout, life expectancy, amortization tables and on and on... they HAVE to make a profit or they will be unable to pay for your ICU, Chemo, breast reduction/augmentation..whatever.
If you notice that Pelosi and Reid let the cat out of the bag by ranting about "evil profits" that the insurance companies make. That's the game... cause insurance companies invest in bonds, stocks, and other instruments of finances in order to spread risk and make money...
If the government takes over the insurance companies, there is no "private" small time investment without government intrusion. Think about Europeans... do they have Schwab, E-trade etc.... not as much as we do. That's what this whole scam is about MONEY.... that's why you notice that Rahm and Gore and even Chelsea Clinton worked for "hedge funds" or investment groups... they know that the game is rigged. They can pick their winners and make money going in and out of "government service"... you know.. just "hepping us poor folk"... hahahahaha... It's right out in the open.. they want chaos cause it hides what they're trying to do...
their special little cohort of "friends", family and business partners are positioned to make money. they'll also be able to "jump the line" for health care and for anything the ruling class now wants.
Health care's "universal coverage" and Being able to control the proles is just the cherry on the top.
I'd be interested in any FReeper thoughts on the matter and would like others to spread this around and see what they think.
I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact of short term government take over.... hoping for a complete meltdown financially for the US and the free world and then a renaissance of free market capitalism.... I'm hunkering down financially and have no debt. I've got the kids educated and trying to show them skills and work habits that will allow them to at least have a chance or spiritual and intellectual freedom.... I think these next 12-14 years are going to be a mess.
Kinda like the 70's with it's own brand of music-rap instead of disco, it's own crappy president-obamalamadingdong instead or Carter, it's own drugs... meth and prescription Adderall instead of cocaine and pot, and erosion of our military and intelligence agencies ..same old same old.
For those that haven't saved, I'd get out of debt if possible. I'm liking the life in a small Texas city. I'm sure there are pockets though out the country of places where you can lower living expenses, have access to firearms and are business friendly. . I'd find them and get there, cause something evil is coming down the path I think and only the well prepared will do well... as is the case most of the time I suppose...
A physician cannot charge a patient more than 115% of the medicare allowable charge under non-assignment., and the enitre reimbursement by medicare is paid to the patient. The doctor must then collect the whole amount from the patient. I have heard of patients taking the money and running, leaving the doc with zilch.
health care to lawyers and extended families should be withdrawn.
If they manage to force universal, single-payer healthcare upon us, they will certainly not permit doctors to refuse to participate. As you can read by many posts, many doctors would choose not to participate for ethical reasons, and many more for financial reasons. We can’t have the majority of doctors boycotting the crown jewel of the socialist plan, can we? There will be some kind of coercion. Maybe it will be their medical licenses, or maybe they will just run all the other insurance out of business so there really is only one payer left. Either take the $20 for an office visit the government offers you, or find a new career.
Most doctor’s now have their schedules full up so most don’t take new patients. I doubt that many would ahve room for more but you can be sure that if they are forced to it will become like it is in the UK where when you turn 18 it is approxiamately a 3 year wait to find a new doctor.
Wow. I haven’t yet run across any freepers who haven’t seen exactly where this is headed! IMO, however, I don’t believe that healthcare will ever be ‘truly’ nationalized. I believe that there will always be the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’...in that the privileged few, i.e., politicians, wealthiest, ‘gangsters’, etc., will have ‘access’ to be able to ‘buy’ whatever treatment they need in some sort of black market. There can be NO compromise...none at all!!
what are these doctors going to do when the LAW FORCES them to take government payment and ONLY government payment?
I know Doctors will donate to the Democrat party...
Would anyone want to see a doctor that works for the U.S. government? NOT ME!
You are so right-on. This needs to be repeated.
Who or what is WRS Opinion Research? From what I can make out, it gives the appearance of being an outfit which has conducted only one poll in its existence, the August 7 one upon which this article relies.
I would be delighted to be proved wrong on this. Will somebody please supply some missing information about this poll?
We’re just not goign to go to the doctor. We’ll live until we get sick and then we’ll die.; What could be more natural than that? And there’s no need for more medical research. Sorry, even the nomenklatura can’t afford to fund medical research that the masses can’t pay for.
Exactly. Medicare and Medicaid programs *are* the social programs of this country. Taxpayers, physicians, hospitals, etc. do not need to support any more!!!!
GOOD FOR THE DOCTORS!
Evidence Based Medicine in and of itself isn’t an evil - it’s what is and will be done with it to force doctors to treat based on an average outcome - even if the doctor thinks the patient isn’t likely to fit into the average.
Has the AMA yet taken an official position? Where they among those “at the the table (trough) early, like Pharma and AARP?
I hear their membership is actually so tiny, it may not matter what they say.
Healthcare historians say US Docs have always been independent types. They have rejected Gov. care for over 100 years because the majority did not want to be employees. Most feel that Docs decided the issue every time in came up seriously, about every 20 years since the 19th century.
According to zer0, all we need to do is find and prosecute those doctors that are doing unnecessary “foot chopping” operations for unjust gains. Once we remove these greedy cannibals from the system it will release funds for those in real need and the system will pay for itself.
This republic is based on the principle that the elected officials are representative of the population for which they were elected. Public opinion research is most important at the beginning of the governmental chain during the election process. A politician can use public opinion research to get elected in two manners: by shaping oneself to conform to the majority opinion, or by shaping public opinion to conform to one's desires.
Since its founding in 1998, Wilson Research Strategieshas conducted over 3,000 research engagements in numerous countries around the world. We have helped executives and leaders from every type of organization - including 109 of the Fortune 500 - identify significant opportunities and make better decisions based on thorough analysis and interpretation of complex data sets. We have issued hundreds of press releases, been quoted in major media outlets, and have made numerous appearances on MSNBC, Fox News, CNN, CNBC, and C-SPAN.
Over the past few years, WRS has become one of the top two Republican polling firms in America. This success has aided our ability to serve our corporate and public affairs clients with aggresive and innovative methodologies; the same approach that has led to the success for our GOP candidates for public office.
Our approach to client challenges has been firmly validated by our unequivocal success in launching new corporate initiatives and winning political campaigns, both here and abroad. WRS succeeds in arenas where there exist clear objectives, deadlines, and winners and losers.
WRS does much more than collect information. We interpret and analyze data to develop actionable strategies and tactics to best position our clients with respect to their competitors. We always start with the end in mind. We work with our clients to identify goals and objectives; then discern, from among many options, the most direct path to success.
We enact a phased methodology (collect, analyze, deliver, and implement) that is proven, repeatable, and scalable. It greatly reduces the inherent uncertainty of our client's opportunity and instills confidence in the implementation plan, leading to more effective results.
WRS also is involved in the healthcare industry. Good to see that we have this kind of expertise on our side in this battle.
I have 4 doctors. Two are stockpiling food and ammo saying the health bill will destroy their responsiveness, make them unwilling government employees, and ruin the world’s best healthcare system. Unless the President realizes that the voters fear his plan and are losing faith in him personally, and he alters course, there will be stronger and stronger resistance to government intrusion in our lives.
“Government health care, Watch your back, Jack!
Half the doctors now won’t take Medicare patients. And I don’t blame them.
Government health care, Watch your back, Jack!
Doctors are also not like union goons. The UK NHS “medical” system is all union, the third largest employer in the world and a disaster.
THE OBAMA HEALTH CARE PLAN — IN ONE WORD
(the BEST expose’, by a physician)
American Daughter | 8-21-2009 | David H. Janda, MD
Posted on 08/25/2009 8:18:16 AM PDT by unspun
That's why they call it a "practice"...... ;-)
I know you will find that other health care industry segments will align themselves with physicians on this. When reimbursements fall (in some cases) even further below costs, the decision to not participate becomes not so difficult. That point has arrived for many already and will for the remainder if this goes down—possibly regardless for some providers if recent trends continue.
Thank you. This is very good. I’ll look it up under its full name (not “WRS”) and see what I can find out about who was polled, the methodology and the context.
In Houston the Memorial Hermann Health Care System is trying to SELL one of it’s hospitals to the Harris County Hospital District. The reason..The domographic of the patient base has CHANGED. You see the SW area in which the Hospital is located is the home to the Katrina gangs, illegals, and a large segment is covered by medicaid.
as the ceo Dan Wolterman of MHHCS states: “THOSE people are better served by the Harris County Hospital District (charity).”
as one gastroenterologist said (para)Doctors will leave the Hospital due to the fact that their insured and Medicare patients want to go to NICE hospitals.
I wonder where the Justice Deptartment is? Will all the NEW fored insured be happy going to a substandard Hospital with substandard Doctors. Oh yes that question was answered...The interns and Residents from the Medical schools will make up the shortfall of Physcians. THE PATIENTS WILL BE GEUNIA PIGS.
Any time Wolterman is asked about the Patients he always referrs to the population that uses the Hospital as THEM, THEY. And this is not about money. It is a profitable Hospital, plus MHHCS is finishing up on a gawd awful eyesore hospital in the Memorial City area. Gentry area.
Doctors that send patients to MHHSW have signed a petition that they will leave the Hospital and send their patients elsewhere.
Peoeple are asking the question.IF OBAMACARE IS GOING TO PASS..WHY IS MEMORIAL HERMANN IN SUCH A HURRY TO UNLOAD THE SOUTHWEST HOPITAL. something stinks we just can’t find the body.
Agreed on Medicine.....
.....Engineering isn't an exact science either. There is a lot of judgement involved in design, operation, and maintenance of machinery and systems. Experience is half the job. Just in case you were wondering ;-)
~~First do no harm ... PING!
This is another sign that if ObamaCare is enacted civil war or revolution will be imminent. The People and the States won’t back down (multiple States have already invoked the principle of State Nullification on other issues) and the Liberal Messiah won’t back down. That means both parties will be on a collision course.
Except doctors swear an oath to do no harm.
That already happens. Its called medicare. Not only does it take forever to get reimbursed and far less than market rates, but medicare then comes back and audits you. They look for any reason to fine you to get yet more money back from you. If not for private insurance picking up the slack, medicare would have run health care bankrupt long before this.
I suspect that no one will take patients insured by the public option if it passes. I then suspect they will make it illegal not to take such “insurance” or tie acceptance to licensure, etc. I plan on retiring early if this actually goes through, and I’m not the only one.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.