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What would Jesus say about health care?
www.disciplesworld.com ^ | 8/16/09 | Rick Lowery

Posted on 08/30/2009 12:34:44 PM PDT by lowbridge

The work and teaching of Jesus offer important moral guideposts as we discuss how to deliver and pay for health care in America today.

New Testament scholars generally agree that the earliest traditions about Jesus emphasize four interrelated themes: Jesus preached and practiced free healing, free food, open tables, and safe space for marginal people

(Excerpt) Read more at disciplesworld.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: healthcare; jesus; wwjd
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1 posted on 08/30/2009 12:34:44 PM PDT by lowbridge
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To: lowbridge
I would think that Jesus would want us all to take care of each other, not look to others to take care of us, and he wouldn't want Caesar taking care of it.

But if you want to bring Jesus into the health care debate, then let's have churches run the hospitals and have the Vatican run federal health care.

2 posted on 08/30/2009 12:37:30 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Obi-Wan Palin: Strike her down and she shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.)
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To: lowbridge
Democrats have tried to invoke the WWJD defense for Obamacare, but it fails. Jesus is not a socialist
3 posted on 08/30/2009 12:38:38 PM PDT by Askwhy5times (http://bloggingredneck.blogspot.com/)
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To: lowbridge

One thing He did not say was to take something away from someone else if it wasn’t yours and give it to the poor. He was also against over taxation. He did say that as individuals, we should help the poor, but not take from one to give to another. Remember “Thou shalt not steal”??????


4 posted on 08/30/2009 12:39:34 PM PDT by RC2
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To: lowbridge
Jesus was concerned primarily with spiritual healing, remarking that "the poor you will always have with you."

If this is an Alinsky tactic to appeal to moral people to support the immoral Obama death care be alert

5 posted on 08/30/2009 12:40:41 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: lowbridge

theres billions in heathcare bill for unions....why do we owe union workers


6 posted on 08/30/2009 12:41:41 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: Tanniker Smith

Originally, churches were considered the logical centers of so much that now springs from secular governmental welfare schemes. And I mean secular. Officials in said government agencies cannot even say “Bless you” to someone who sneezes without getting sued anymore.


7 posted on 08/30/2009 12:42:30 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Barack Obama is a political suicide bomber and the Rats are political arsonists.)
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To: lowbridge
This article is missing the entire point of what Jesus preached. He pointedly refused to be a political revolutionary. He was was a revolutionary of a more profound type.

Christ's solutions to problems have nothing to do with increased power of the state.

8 posted on 08/30/2009 12:42:42 PM PDT by AndyTheBear
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To: lowbridge


Jesús hablo: Me gusta la medicina libre!
9 posted on 08/30/2009 12:43:55 PM PDT by RetroSexual
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To: RC2

Taxation at best had a limited role, that of supporting a minimal set of legitimate governmental functions, mostly those of keeping civil order.


10 posted on 08/30/2009 12:44:13 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Barack Obama is a political suicide bomber and the Rats are political arsonists.)
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To: lowbridge

Wonder if Rick is related to Joseph Lowery who spoke at the One’s inauguration?


11 posted on 08/30/2009 12:48:07 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: lowbridge
practiced free healing, free food, open tables, and safe space for marginal people...

Yes, and Jesus could provide all of that without what we consider "natural resources". It would be terrific to be able to feed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and three fish, but we can't.

12 posted on 08/30/2009 12:48:22 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: AndyTheBear
Christ's solutions to problems have nothing to do with increased power of the state.

Exactly!

When he healed he told those he healed to repent and sin no more.

Our Savior's actions pertained to the spirit and not the flesh. His actions were done to glorify our Creator and not this fleshly world system.

13 posted on 08/30/2009 12:50:12 PM PDT by A message (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days until Jim Thompson is President)
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To: RC2

My favorite when it comes to DemocRATS is “Thou shalt not covet.” What “the Rich” have is none of my damn business and I also believe that we should not have a fascist government that is in the business of taking other people’s money and property away from them. It sounds too much like Nazism and communism to me. Communism is nothing but a “progressive” form of slavery.


14 posted on 08/30/2009 12:51:16 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Dude! Where's my country?)
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To: RC2

Even more so democrats need to learn not to COVET. Jesus would not agree with people “using” the system for their own gain. He would detest fraud and people taking money from others just cause they do not want to work at ANY job. He would detest racism, socialism, government bullying and control with taxation with the power of the state to throw you into jail.


15 posted on 08/30/2009 12:51:50 PM PDT by therut
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To: lowbridge
Remember this nugget, from Joseph Lowery

Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get [in] back, when brown can stick around, when yellow will be mellow, when the red man can get ahead, man; and when white will embrace what is right. Let all those who do justice and love mercy say Amen! Say Amen! And Amen

16 posted on 08/30/2009 12:52:27 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: RC2

You said — One thing He did not say was to take something away from someone else if it wasn’t yours and give it to the poor.

Well, Jesus the Messiah of Israel did agree with gleaning, in which a field which belonged to someone was not supposed to be harvested extensively to allow the poor to come in and take what they needed from it, for themselves. If something was dropped or missed in harvesting, the owner (and/or help) was not supposed to go back and “get it” but to let it go for the poor to feed themselves this way.

Besides that, there were taxes which went into the Temple Treasury and was significant. On top of that, there were the various sacrifices, too, which were given to the priests...

I wouldn’t necessarily maintain that Jesus had that particular viewpoint that you’re saying...

A snippet of something from another ministry website...


In the Old Testament, there were two means to help the poor. The first was through the gleaning laws listed in Leviticus 19:9-10 and Deuteronomy 24:19-22. As farmers reaped their crops, they would leave the corners of their fields unharvested, and anything that fell to the ground was left for the poor.

The second method used to help the poor was the tithe. In Leviticus 27:30 we find that the tithe provided funds both for the church and for the poor. The funds were distributed by the priests to those who were truly needy.

In the New Testament, the church also had a role in helping to meet the needs of the poor. In 1 Corinthians 16, Paul talks about a collection that was sent from the churches to the Jerusalem believers. We also find many scriptural admonitions calling for Christians to distribute their resources to others compassionately (2 Cor. 9:7; 1 Tim. 5:9-10; 6:18; James 1:27).


http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/poverty.html

Another thing to keep in mind is that Jesus, the Messiah of Israel is coming back to set up a *one-world government* in which He will be an “absolute ruler” over all the nations and these laws and requirements that He sets up will be followed without fail and He will eliminate all war, hunger, sickness, disease and poverty.... in ruling the Kingdom of God on this earth. That’s the 1,000 year reign of the Messiah of Israel — to take place just before the “final judgment” which takes place at the “Great White Throne Judgment” of Revelation 20...


17 posted on 08/30/2009 12:54:08 PM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: GingisK

You’re exactly right. The five loaves and three fishes proved God will provide.

In spite of what the MSM is trying to get us to believe, Obama is NOT God.


18 posted on 08/30/2009 12:55:10 PM PDT by wolfpat (Moderate=Clueless)
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To: lowbridge

When people who are inherently atheistic in their beliefs invoke Jesus to persuade others to their agenda, isn’t it just a *tad* disingenuous?

In a way, it’s like them saying, “I swear to God I’m an atheist!”

Jesus, to them, is nothing more than an argumentative device, which shows the utter contempt with which they hold Christians and Christianity.

So when they do this, say to them, “But how would Karl Marx justify Obamacare?”

I’ve no idea what they would say, but I bet it would be entertaining, if not persuasive.


19 posted on 08/30/2009 12:55:23 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: AndyTheBear

You said — Christ’s solutions to problems have nothing to do with increased power of the state.

But, that’s a “two-stage” process that Jesus, the Messiah of Israel instituted, in which at the first stage, He was a sacrifice for sins — but — at the second stage — He does *increase the power of the state* — dramatically, in that He becomes the “world ruler” and rules over all the nations of the world with a “rod of iron” ... during which time He clamps down hard on all things that many people take for granted now.

There will not be war, poverty, starvation, disease, sickness (still will have death and sin, though) — throughout His 1,000 year reign over all the globe and all nations, during which time He clamps down hard on any violators of the law that He institutes. This is the 1,000 years just prior to the “final judgment” of the “Great White Throne Judgment” of Revelation 20, at which time (after that) then the “eternal state” comes into being... once again...


20 posted on 08/30/2009 12:58:33 PM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: RC2

i always feel a little antsy when I read what someone writes about what “Jesus would do.” I think the bottom line as a Christian is if I see a need, I will share some of my resources with that person in need until they can manage. Notice nowhere in that description was any statement that when I perceived a need was I going to TAKE something of yours to solve the problem. I may try to convince you to help, but I will not make you do it. What mine is mine, but I will share it. What yours is yours and I won’t take it.

Another aspect to consider is buried in the saying - “Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a person to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.” Restating it in terms of health care, I try to teach that person about better nutrition, better eating habits, making better daily life decisions after they have been initially helped. Looking out for you fellow Christian’s well being is what I think Jesus would have done (and is doing).

We all are going to stand in front of that great white throne and give an account of our voyage here on this Earth. Will there be any stars in your crown?


21 posted on 08/30/2009 1:00:22 PM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine
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To: RetroSexual

Quiere decir “medicina gratis.” “Libre” no signfica gratuitamente.


22 posted on 08/30/2009 1:00:45 PM PDT by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia

Gracias!


23 posted on 08/30/2009 1:02:30 PM PDT by RetroSexual
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To: Tanniker Smith

You said — I would think that Jesus would want us all to take care of each other, not look to others to take care of us, and he wouldn’t want Caesar taking care of it.

The thing is — Jesus, the Messiah of Israel will be the Caesar of the world (if you will) or better yet, the Ruler over all nations, over all people, the “one-world government leader” over everything, for a 1,000 years, in which He rules with a rod of iron, like the Bible says. This is just prior to the “final judgment” (at the end of that 1,000 years).

During this time, the laws that He institutes and requires everyone to follow, will be commanded and there will be no room for deviation, as He is the *absolute ruler* over all people on the earth at that time. All war will be eliminated, no hunger or poverty or sickness or illness, although there will still be sin and death — which continue up to the time of the final judgment (at the end of that 1,000 year reign), which is the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20.


24 posted on 08/30/2009 1:02:40 PM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: A message

See post #20...


25 posted on 08/30/2009 1:03:53 PM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: lowbridge

I doubt very many liberals actually care what Jesus has to say. Just imagine what would follow if anyone quoted Him in the gay marriage debate:

“Haven’t you read that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’, and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?” (Matt. 19:4-5)

I can hear the cries of “Taliban!” already.


26 posted on 08/30/2009 1:05:30 PM PDT by Irish Rose (Will work for chocolate.)
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To: Irish Rose

You said — I can hear the cries of “Taliban!” already.

Well, during the *one-world rule* that Jesus, the Messiah of Israel establishes over all the nations, when He comes to set up His 1,000 year rule, during which time the Bible says He rules with a rod of iron, very strict and authoritarian... there will be a whole lot of people who will think that Jesus is the “Taliban” as a whole lot of them rebel against Christ and go against Him at the end of that 1,000 year world-wide reign that He has established.

At the end of that 1,000 years, numbers that are said to be greater than the sand on the seashore, rebel against Jesus, the Messiah of Israel and they are instantly destroyed by Him. And, then comes that “final judgment” that we all hear about (at the end of that 1,000 year world-wide reign), called the Great White Throne Judgment (of Revelation 20).

I’m sure that a whole lot of people are going to be thinking “Taliban” during that time... LOL...


27 posted on 08/30/2009 1:10:40 PM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: Citizen Tom Paine

Agreed, but the key is that it is all voluntary. God gave me the right to make that decision and I will answer for my deeds.

As for stars in my crown......I don’t do things to get “stars in my crown”. I do things because I believe them to be right. If I am wrong, then I will have to pay for it one way or another. Do what you believe to be right in your mind and your heart and you will have nothing to worry about. I don’t do things to get browny points with the Old Man.


28 posted on 08/30/2009 1:13:52 PM PDT by RC2
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To: lowbridge

>>preached and practiced free healing, free food, open tables, and safe space for marginal people<<

I believe He did this for people of FAITH, not “marginal people”


29 posted on 08/30/2009 1:13:55 PM PDT by Mother Mary
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To: lowbridge
Jesus preached and practiced free healing, free food, open tables, ...

Not so easily done in the absence of divine miraculous powers.

30 posted on 08/30/2009 1:16:42 PM PDT by reg45 (Be calm everyone. The idiot children are in charge!)
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To: lowbridge
The whole problem with this healthcare thing, and the rest of socialism/communism that Obama preaches is it removes God and his laws from everything.

First off, those who want gubmint healthcare, want something for nothing. This goes against everything taught in the Bible, specifically Proverbs.

When one advocates taking from one to give to ones self (or society) that is coveting. Looking at what someone has and desiring THEY not have it, is still coveting, even if you don't wish to have it for yourself.

Communism that the Kenyan wants, does not recognize a SOVEREIGN GOD. A God who chooses who he wants to bless. What Obama proposes, in essence, is that whatever blessings one has, and however you get those blessings, HE will choose who gets what. He is setting himself above God.

Everything in the Bible is about personal freedom, and personal responsibility. Obama is trying to do away with all that.

God blesses us NOT just for our own pleasure, but to also bless those around us. But always, the person has the freedom in chooseing if and how we apply those blessings. If we choose not to apply those blessings to or for others, they can always be taken away by God, who gave them in the first place.

Obama says not good enough.

Throughout Proverbs, wisdom and its aquisition are talked about. The Bible talks about the difference between those who seek and follow wisdom, and those who seek and follow folly.

Obama doesn't want a difference.

Likewise, Proverbs talks about dilligence, and the difference between the dilligent and the lazy. But Obama wants to over rule God, and to reward the lazy from the dilligent.

Satan is a destroyer. His goal is to destroy Gods people, and all that God teaches us. He wants to destroy the dilligent. He wants to destroy the wise. He wants to demoralise those who live by Gods rules.

31 posted on 08/30/2009 1:16:42 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: lowbridge
I don't know what Jesus would say, but here's what dead ted said to the pope in the letter he had obama personally deliver in July click right here start in around the 5 minute mark - the letter was read yesterday at dead ted's burial service.
32 posted on 08/30/2009 1:17:35 PM PDT by rockabyebaby (We are sooooooooooooooooooooo screwed!)
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To: Askwhy5times
Besides, Jesus was not in favor of the male on male "hokey pokey" sort of thing all these Leftwingtards value and cherish so highly.

Make that Jesus' FIFTH THEME

33 posted on 08/30/2009 1:18:48 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: AndyTheBear

If the author thinks that Jesus came to offer free goodies, he’s missed the whole point.


34 posted on 08/30/2009 1:20:07 PM PDT by Shimmer1 (Navy blue)
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To: dalebert
there's billions in heathcare bill for unions....why do we owe union workers

An excellent question

Labor is and has been aligned with the Civil Rights movement, which is aligned with Marxist thought, which aligned with taking from the haves and giving to the have-nots. Workers/labor are "have nots" in this paradigm. So this is their payoff for being down for the struggle.
35 posted on 08/30/2009 1:25:37 PM PDT by Canedawg (FUBO)
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To: lowbridge
I don't recall Jesus pushing for the Romans to raise taxes so there could be universal health care.

Far, far from it.

36 posted on 08/30/2009 1:31:58 PM PDT by what's up
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To: lowbridge
The Author is a false Christian.

The scripture verses they try use to back their lies are falsely interpreted.

This article is worthy a steaming pant load stamp of disapproval.

Jesus is God not a politicial policy wonk.

37 posted on 08/30/2009 1:31:59 PM PDT by right way right
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To: reg45
The Bible teaches that the wealthy, when harvesting their crops, should not go back and pick up what had fallen or been missed. It was to be for the poor. The poor STILL had to go out into the field, and harvest for themselves. I also believe the poor were still required to ask permission from the owner (otherwise it would be stealing). That way the owner was allowing of his own free will. And the poor person would not view it as an entitlement, and would still have to work for it.

The Bible NEVER preached free or open anything. The Bible talks about wisdom and dilligence.

What the Bible DOES talk about is HELPING out the poor and needy. To take up the cause of the widow and/or the oppressed. But it most DEFINETLY DOES NOT advocate a free ride.

Christ fed the people because they were so hungry for him and his words, that they weren't prepared. There was a legitimate NEED that he met. BUT the miracle was not about feeding people, it was about GLORIFYING GOD.

If Jesus' miracles were all about feeding and healing, or free food and health, he would have been doing that constantly, and he would have preached that. But he preached SIN, REPENTANCE and SALVATION. He never ordered the disciples to go out and feed and heal people. The disciples were to go out and preach Gods Good News.

38 posted on 08/30/2009 1:34:00 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: Tanniker Smith
“... let's have churches run the hospitals and have the Vatican run federal health care.”

EXACTLY!! Return to the origins of medicine as developed in the western world; a calling to help your fellow man and fostered by the churches. Get rid of “for profit health care” The very description of it should seem obscene to Christians!

(NO, I definitely DON'T support Govt run Healthcare!)

39 posted on 08/30/2009 1:34:16 PM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: lowbridge
When Jesus sent his disciples into the world to heal and cast out demons, he told them to heal for free and to accept whatever hospitality families could provide them (Matthew 10:8–10).

Ummmm....they did it thru the power of the Holy Spirit and NOT using tax-payers funds.

This author is out to lunch.

40 posted on 08/30/2009 1:35:19 PM PDT by what's up
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To: lowbridge

Jesus may actually be for universal care. Liberal hippie that He was. Oh well, we can’t all be perfect.


41 posted on 08/30/2009 1:38:15 PM PDT by BlueStateBlues (Blue State business, Red State heart. . . . .Palin 2012----can't come soon enough!)
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To: lowbridge
iirc Jesus was not into socialized medicine... he was VERY selective who he helped and cured.
42 posted on 08/30/2009 1:38:26 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist -ww- I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: lowbridge

And what would Jesus think about Ted Kennedy? Probably nothing, as He wouldn’t think of him at all. Next stop for Ted, furnace duty.


43 posted on 08/30/2009 1:40:00 PM PDT by BlueStateBlues (Blue State business, Red State heart. . . . .Palin 2012----can't come soon enough!)
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To: Star Traveler
One thing He did not say was to take something away from someone else if it wasn’t yours and give it to the poor

Well, Jesus the Messiah of Israel did agree with gleaning,

The poster you respond to is correct. You are not to take from SOMEONE ELSE and give to the poor.There were always admonitions to personally help the poor...this is a far cry from forcible re-distribution by law.

In 1 Corinthians 16, Paul talks about a collection that was sent from the churches to the Jerusalem believers

Again, voluntary. Paul isn't forcibly taking it and re-distributing it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Jesus, the Messiah of Israel is coming back to set up a *one-world government*

Has nothing to do with this word gov't and its corruption because of political leaders.

44 posted on 08/30/2009 1:46:32 PM PDT by what's up
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To: lowbridge

People need to dismantle the emo-terms the left is using.

“healthcare” is fine in the US. If not, all those illegals wouldn’t get any care. Yet they do.

The issue is “health insurance”... And who pays for everything. The main complaint is that it’s to expensive. If we use 0bama’s most inflated number of 45m people... Which includes 20-25m illegals.. Which we should not be paying for.... That leaves 20m out of 310m that are not covered.


45 posted on 08/30/2009 1:46:41 PM PDT by sten
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To: Mother Mary
“I believe He did this for people of FAITH, not ‘marginal people’.”

I'm pretty sure Matthew, the tax collector, and his notorious friends, were NOT people of Faith. Nevertheless, Christ dined with them, despite the shocked sensibilities of the “righteous”! His response to them is well-known:

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.... I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

46 posted on 08/30/2009 1:48:14 PM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: Star Traveler
He does *increase the power of the state*

No, that would be more the anti-Christ's MO.

There's no need for a "state" under Christ. In His perfection, He's the only ruler needed.

47 posted on 08/30/2009 1:53:29 PM PDT by what's up
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To: what's up

It was the law in regards to someone else’s field and them allowing others to come on the field that they own and allow them to pick the crops on that field. So, it was the law in regards to them...

In addition, there were also taxes that were required for the government and it was redistributed according to the requirements of the law...

Those were things that were required and done according to the law...

There were also other laws in regards to how people were supposed to handle their fields in the 7th year, i.e., not use them at all (again by law). And also there was the law that required people to forgive debt and the land was to revert back to the owner at the 50th year...

Those were all legitimate laws and they were supposed to be followed.


48 posted on 08/30/2009 1:53:42 PM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: lowbridge
Just so that every one here knows this Church Christian Church (disciples of Christ) is just one more church polluted by a sect of idolaters veiled in humanitarianism driven by an extremely politically left secular culture.

Including the Homosexual agenda that rocked the ELCA Lutheran Synod last week.

49 posted on 08/30/2009 1:54:22 PM PDT by right way right
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To: what's up

You said — No, that would be more the anti-Christ’s MO.

Well, the anti-christ comes first, and he fails and is “booted out” by Jesus the Messiah of Israel and He sets up the one-world rule and reign over all the world, over the nations. There are some problems, then, as He is said to rule with a rod of iron and He also will cause no rain to come to certain nations, because of their mini-rebellion during that time. So, yes, He does rule with full and absolute authority (like the anti-christ tried to do but failed...). Jesus, the Messiah of Israel comes in war and battle, kills millions upon millions upon His return and forcefully sets up the Kingdom of God on this earth, ruling and reigning from the Throne of David in Israel and all the nations acknowledge His rule from Israel.

There is still sin and death during this 1,000 year reign, so all is not perfect, as it’s not perfect until all sin and death are gone — and that does not happen until *after* this 1,000 year reign of the Messiah of Israel.


50 posted on 08/30/2009 1:57:38 PM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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