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Winchester Awarded Department Of Homeland Security Ammunition Contract
ammoland.com ^ | Friday, August 21st, 2009 | ammoland.com

Posted on 08/31/2009 6:52:11 PM PDT by Greystoke

East Alton, IL – -(AmmoLand.com)- Winchester® Ammunition was recently awarded a contract by the Immigration, Customs and Enforcement (ICE) division of the Department of Homeland Security to supply a maximum of 200 million, 40 cal. rounds over the next five years.

(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ammo; ammunition; banglist; bhodhs; department; dhs; firearms; government; guns; homeland; homelandsecurity; security; war; weapons; winchester; wot
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Doesn't that seem like a lot of ammo for a law enforcement agency?
1 posted on 08/31/2009 6:52:12 PM PDT by Greystoke
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To: Greystoke

banglist


2 posted on 08/31/2009 6:52:46 PM PDT by Greystoke (For God, for family and for country.)
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To: bang_list

ping


3 posted on 08/31/2009 6:53:46 PM PDT by Greystoke (For God, for family and for country.)
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To: Greystoke
Doesn't that seem like a lot of ammo for a law enforcement agency?

Depends on their mission...

4 posted on 08/31/2009 6:53:53 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Greystoke

How many rounds is that per federale?


5 posted on 08/31/2009 6:54:08 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: Greystoke

Too bad the contract wasn’t for the Border Patrol...but then, they aren’t really allowed to use their ammunition anyway.


6 posted on 08/31/2009 6:54:20 PM PDT by SandWMan (While you may not be able to legislate morality, you can legislate morally.)
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To: Greystoke
"40 cal."

What would that be, exactly?

7 posted on 08/31/2009 6:56:50 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Big Ears + Big Spending --> BigEarMarx, the man behind TOTUS)
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To: Talisker

Wonder if they’ll have any excess capacity after providing this?


8 posted on 08/31/2009 6:58:21 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Greystoke

Trying to stock up to combat citizens in revolution, I guess...or hoping to scare people, or both.


9 posted on 08/31/2009 6:59:45 PM PDT by Kackikat (There is no such thing as a free lunch, because someone paid, somewhere.)
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To: Greystoke

Most of it will be used for training/familiarization with handguns.


10 posted on 08/31/2009 7:01:16 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (DON'T BLAME ME I VOTED FOR "PALIN"!)
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To: Greystoke

Great... There’s another that will be tough to be, along with Lake City 5.56.


11 posted on 08/31/2009 7:01:30 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: Paladin2

Semi-auto pistol ammo. Many of the govt agencies use H and K, or Berretta pistols. 40 million rounds per year sounds enormous.??


12 posted on 08/31/2009 7:01:35 PM PDT by petertare (--.)
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To: SandWMan

Someone has to buy it for the felons, as they aren’t allowed to have guns.


13 posted on 08/31/2009 7:02:12 PM PDT by Kackikat (There is no such thing as a free lunch, because someone paid, somewhere.)
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To: Greystoke
200M over 5 years, 40M per year. Enough for 35,000 people to do 100 rounds of practice shooting per month.

But law enforcement, outside of special units, really don't do all that much firearms training. And ICE only has 18K employees TOTAL.

So either every file clerk and secretary in ICE is getting a lot of range time, or they are doing something strange.

14 posted on 08/31/2009 7:02:12 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: Paladin2
What would that be, exactly?

Bigger than a .38, smaller than a .45
;)

You just knew that was coming...

15 posted on 08/31/2009 7:04:10 PM PDT by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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To: Paladin2

Standard semiautomatic handgun caliber used by many police forces. More powerful than a 9mm and less powerful than a .45 ACP. Was designed in the late 1980s at the request of the FBI to remedy the perceived lack of stopping power of a 9mm and excessive recoil of a 10mm which the FBI used for a short period of time.


16 posted on 08/31/2009 7:04:15 PM PDT by behzinlea
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To: SandWMan
Too bad the contract wasn’t for the Border Patrol...but then, they aren’t really allowed to use their ammunition anyway.

Looking at the article, the requisition is in fact for the Border Patrol. That's still a lot of ammo for a 50K-person dept.

17 posted on 08/31/2009 7:04:28 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: petertare
NCIS and the Postal Inspection service use Sigs. The Inspection Service now uses 40 Cal. as well.
18 posted on 08/31/2009 7:07:29 PM PDT by JimC214
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To: Paladin2
What would that be, exactly?

.40 S&W, the preferred round of law enforcement agencies all over the country.

19 posted on 08/31/2009 7:09:02 PM PDT by SpeedRacer (Where's your records, B-HO? What are you hiding?)
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To: Greystoke

I gather that Homeland Security is planning to standardize their firearm of choice as a .40 Glock, which is already preferred by the FBI, I believe.

Bureaucrats love standardization, because it makes procurement easier. But truth be told, 200 million rounds is not that much, if you calculate annual training.

However, it is still a good idea that individual States be encouraged to create laws providing for State production and use of ammunition, that is, to make it easy for ammo makers to produce non-federally regulated ammo just for use within that State.


20 posted on 08/31/2009 7:09:31 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: petertare
I carry a Glock 22 so I will continue searching out every box of .40 I can find. Unless I can find where they store the 200 million rounds......
21 posted on 08/31/2009 7:09:31 PM PDT by Recon Dad ( MARSOC DAD)
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To: JimC214
Almost forgot, Federal Agencies use hollow point ammo. The Inspection Service before they went to the Sig used Beretta's in 9MM. Some Inspectors were allowed to use Glocks as well, but a few too many AD’s quickly changed that. They would use either Golden Saber or Black Talon in 147 Grain Plus P.
22 posted on 08/31/2009 7:13:17 PM PDT by JimC214
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To: SandWMan
"The load selected for this contract is a 135-grain, hollow point designed for the office of Field Operations of Customs and Border Protection."

http://www.ammoland.com/2009/08/21/winchester-awarded-department-of-homeland-security-ammunition-contract/

23 posted on 08/31/2009 7:14:30 PM PDT by castlebrew (Gun control means hitting where you're aiming!)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

That’s 20,000 rounds per 8 hour shift, minus weekends and vacations, for five years...

How many people does this supply? There are 200,000 people in DHS now that they’ve consolidated INS, so that’s one round per TEN shifts, not a reasonable estimate. Let’s guess that 25% of them are in “gun toting” jobs, .4 rounds per week or just under 2 rounds per month.

Yeah, I think you are correct, that’s a reasonable amount of ammo for training over five years.

It would be nice if it increased the supply to us citizens, eh?


24 posted on 08/31/2009 7:15:14 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: castlebrew

Sorry, didn’t equate that with “Border Patrol”. Still...what do they need the ammunition for? If they use it, they’ll get imprisoned.


25 posted on 08/31/2009 7:15:55 PM PDT by SandWMan (While you may not be able to legislate morality, you can legislate morally.)
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To: Kackikat

Some felons in Pennsylvania are able to use black powder after filing legal requests. I just heard about this last week on our local talk radio station.


26 posted on 08/31/2009 7:17:18 PM PDT by codder too
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To: Paladin2

Hey, I got it. The . was missing so what it is exactly is hugh & series.


27 posted on 08/31/2009 7:20:27 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Everyone signing up after Nov 28, 1997 is a newbie.)
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To: Greystoke
Good stuff


You can never have too much ammo.


28 posted on 08/31/2009 7:28:26 PM PDT by smokingfrog (No man's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session. I AM JIM THOMPSON)
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To: Greystoke

“Doesn’t that seem like a lot of ammo for a law enforcement agency?”

Given that the average LEO can’t hit a barn he is inside of, not too much at all. Since they are the point of the spear in dealing with the upcoming terrorist attacks, they need range time and ammo.

As far as the tyranny aspect, it is of note that the citizens bought well over 700 million rounds of all sorts of ammo in the time since Obama was elected.

Somehow, when the public out buys the police by something like 15 to one, I don’t think the citizen need fear the police purchase of ammo.

As a comparison, the US military bought 1,000 million rounds for last year.

What the citizens should fear is goobers in all levels of gooberment agencies that have closed ranges needed by both cops and citizens.


29 posted on 08/31/2009 7:28:38 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: Talisker

Actually the law enforcement community in general burns through a LOT of ammo just in range practice. I don’t have a big problem with that.


30 posted on 08/31/2009 7:31:12 PM PDT by Antoninus II
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To: castlebrew

“...designed for the office... “

What do they use for outside work then? =)


31 posted on 08/31/2009 7:31:21 PM PDT by Redcitizen (Zartan for President 2012)
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To: ASA Vet

It could have been worse. They could have called it a 40MM.


32 posted on 08/31/2009 7:35:30 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: PapaBear3625
100 rounds of practice shooting per month

That's 25 rds a week. That's less than 2 magazines on a Saturday morning. Most people I know burn through 4 times that every weekend. Do you really want LEs that get that little practice??

33 posted on 08/31/2009 7:36:45 PM PDT by Antoninus II
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To: Greystoke
Doesn't that seem like a lot of ammo for a law enforcement agency?

I was thinking the same thing.

On the other hand, since Winchester is unlikely to use Federal primers, maybe the supply situation will improve a bit. Wish I'd bought a million Federal 205Ms two years ago. They've appreciated better than gold.

34 posted on 08/31/2009 7:38:13 PM PDT by 6ppc (It's torch and pitchfork time)
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To: Shooter 2.5

35 posted on 08/31/2009 7:40:59 PM PDT by usmcobra (Your chances of dying in bed are reduced by getting out of it, but most people still die in bed)
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To: petertare

>>Many of the govt agencies use H and K, or Berretta pistols.<<

Actually, almost all of them use either Glock (FBI) or Sig Sauer (Sec. Service), with, I’d guess, about a 40 vs. 60 percent (rough) respective share between the two. While there may be some other brands (S&W comes to mind), I’m personally not aware of any federal LE agency that uses either H&K (postal guys maybe??) or Beretta handguns as issued weapons. There may be one here or there and there also may be agents or officers that use these themselves as duty or off-duty weapons.

Anyone have any more recent info that shows this wrong?


36 posted on 08/31/2009 7:46:42 PM PDT by 1L
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To: Paladin2
.40 Short and Weak.

The favorite round of the LEO "spray and pray" crowd.

Glock food.

The round that is eventually dislodged from the body part of the LEO or LEO-proximate after the negligent discharge of the Glock.

37 posted on 08/31/2009 7:51:31 PM PDT by elkfersupper (Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: usmcobra

I thought I should have typed that decimal point right after I hit post.

Cool picture. Just think, if the Second Amendment actually meant something, Those would be sold at Sears. Solid projectiles would be great for home defense.


38 posted on 08/31/2009 7:52:47 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: Antoninus II
Actually the law enforcement community in general burns through a LOT of ammo just in range practice. I don’t have a big problem with that.

200 million rounds is far, far more than range practice every day for every DHS employee including weekends and holidays for the entirety of their careers.

200 million is insane.

39 posted on 08/31/2009 8:02:04 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Antoninus II
That's 25 rds a week. That's less than 2 magazines on a Saturday morning. Most people I know burn through 4 times that every weekend. Do you really want LEs that get that little practice??

A lot of police officers do less than 100 rounds per year. They shoot their yearly qualifier and that's it. My range hosts police qualifiers. They are not impressive.

40 posted on 08/31/2009 8:03:40 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: Talisker

Just as home owners in the Northeast buying heating oil, they enter a multiyear contract to lock in a bearable price. Considering the last year’s ammo market, that’s not insane. How a many employees fall under DHS??


41 posted on 08/31/2009 8:16:13 PM PDT by Antoninus II
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To: Antoninus II
How a many employees fall under DHS??

I just looked it up on wiki - 200,000. Which, I'll admit, made me blink.

But only a small fraction of them (please God) are armed.

Even still, it's only one agency of the feds, and 200 million rounds for five years is still staggering to me. That's army-level BLOAT.

42 posted on 08/31/2009 8:21:34 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Shooter 2.5

It’s Chinese so I think Harbor Freight or Walmart.


43 posted on 08/31/2009 8:25:20 PM PDT by usmcobra (Your chances of dying in bed are reduced by getting out of it, but most people still die in bed)
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To: Antoninus II
How a many employees fall under DHS??

Wait a minute, new reply. It wasn't an order for DHS, it was an order for ICE, a department of DHS.

ICE has 15,000 employees.

Let's assume a third are armed (rough guess).

That's 40,000 rounds per armed employee, at 8,000 rounds per year for 5 years.

That's a LOT of live firearms training every year for every employee.

44 posted on 08/31/2009 8:29:19 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Greystoke

Wow! That is 1 1/2 rounds for every moderate and conservative in America.


45 posted on 08/31/2009 8:29:27 PM PDT by RobinOfKingston (Democrats, the party of evil. Republicans, the party of stupid.)
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To: Talisker

Yeah, but considering the talent pool they collect from, they need all the practice they can get. I’m no proponent of the feds but if you pack hardware as your job, burning through a hundred rounds a day to stay proficient, I don’t have a problem. It’s better than giving the money to some yahoo that’s been unemployed for years milking the system. I wish I could afford that practice luxury. But I’m just a working class stiff. We’re tight as a drum when it comes to money in my house. I’m sitting here watching grocery prices steadily rise but the media doen’t see inflation yet?? Baffling...


46 posted on 08/31/2009 8:32:36 PM PDT by Antoninus II
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To: Greystoke

You mean the government actually awarded an American company a contract and was wondering the same thing; why all the ammo?


47 posted on 08/31/2009 8:38:24 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: castlebrew
The load selected for this contract is a 135-grain, hollow point designed for the office of Field Operations of Customs and Border Protection.

Good to hear that. I prefer the Win 175 grain Silvertip myself. Hope to still be able to get it. Then there is the 165 grain for 40S&W, and 180 grain for 10mm. so they can have the 135 grainers. Remington makes the Golden Saber and JHP's that work well, so we should still be good to go.

48 posted on 08/31/2009 8:47:40 PM PDT by SpeedRacer (Where's your records, B-HO? What are you hiding?)
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To: Talisker

That’s roughly 2 boxes per week. Again, considering the talent pool, that’s not that bad. It’s a drop in the bucket for this Admin. Considering they’re up against the Mexican Army at an alarming rate I hope they can hit their target!


49 posted on 08/31/2009 8:53:08 PM PDT by Antoninus II
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To: Greystoke

This probably means I won’t be able to find Winchester white box ammo on the shelves for another 5 years.


50 posted on 08/31/2009 8:54:34 PM PDT by Nachoman (Think of life as an adventure you don't survive.)
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