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Fines proposed for going without health insurance ($3,800 FINE-Big Drudge Headline!!)
AP ^ | RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

Posted on 09/08/2009 3:13:24 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182

WASHINGTON (AP) - Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as President Barack Obama met Democratic leaders to search for ways to salvage his health care overhaul.[snip]

......The fines pose a dilemma for Obama. As a candidate, the president campaigned hard against making health insurance a requirement, and fining people for not getting it.

"Punishing families who can't afford health care to begin with just doesn't make sense," he said during his party's primaries. At the time, he proposed mandatory insurance only for children............"

(Excerpt) Read more at apnews.myway.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fines; obamacare; romney; romneycare; romneyfee; socializedmedicine
They will sink themselves with fines for mandatory participation. Even Obama SAID he was against it.
1 posted on 09/08/2009 3:13:25 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Marxist are sooooo easy to predict.


2 posted on 09/08/2009 3:15:06 PM PDT by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
Fines? Fines? We don't want no stinkin' fines...we wants these gringos wifout health insurance to be executed!!
3 posted on 09/08/2009 3:15:34 PM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: Anti-Bubba182

And what we should do is stand up and ask “WHERE IS THE CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO FORCE THIS ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE”.


4 posted on 09/08/2009 3:16:03 PM PDT by Tarpon (The Joker's plan -- Slavery by debt so large it can never be repaid...)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
More of the same BS from Approved Propaganda.
From the article:
Just as auto coverage is now mandatory in most states, Baucus would a require that all Americans get health insurance once the system is overhauled.

First of all, auto insurance is not mandated by a Federal law.

Then, as a matter of fact, not every state requires automobile insurance for all vehicle owners or drivers. Some (New Hampshire, maybe others) have no requirement at all. Others, allow individuals (or corporations that own vehicles) to post a bond with the sate and self insure. Anyone that posts the bond and meets the self insurance requirements is not required to purchase automobile insurance. To the best of my knowledge, no state requires every person in the state to have automobile insurance. In most states, a child under the age of 15 has no need for automobile insurance. Other people who do not drive and do not own vehicles are also exempt from the requirement to purchase automobile insurance.

In short, the statement that Auto Insurance is mandatory is an absurd exaggeration.

5 posted on 09/08/2009 3:19:23 PM PDT by cc2k (When less than half the voters pay taxes, it's called "taxation without representation.")
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To: Anti-Bubba182

I’ve got your $3,800 right here, Pal.


6 posted on 09/08/2009 3:23:25 PM PDT by JPG (Obama...a 24/7 nightmare.)
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To: Tarpon
I should think easy out would be "the contract clause' in the Constitution, etc..

I was taught law is like ping pong, as long as you return the presentment (ball) you'll prolly win the game.

But then again , "What's the Constitution between friends?"

LBJ to Dem. Wilbur Mills in getting Medicare passed July 1965

Always at the end of July they try.

7 posted on 09/08/2009 3:23:41 PM PDT by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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To: CodeToad

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32733321/

What jackasses.

I cannot believe the things I have seen passed or attempted to be passed as law in the last 6 months. It’s like a really bad movie and it just keeps getting worse.

Maybe they should fine people who can’t get a job too. That’s next.


8 posted on 09/08/2009 3:25:12 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (ACORN:American Corruption for Obama Right Now)
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To: cc2k
Auto insurance is not mandated by Federal Law and the states requiring it do not fine a person for not having Auto insurance unless they are caught driving without it.

You are right the analogy is Baloney.

9 posted on 09/08/2009 3:25:38 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Mitt Romney would be in favor of it.


10 posted on 09/08/2009 3:27:09 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Tarpon

We are poorly served when a matter of intense national interest is reported by the media in incomplete form. I immediately oppose this for personal reasons. I have been unable to get life insurance, long term care insurance, or any kind of medical insurance for the past 40 years because of service connected disabilities. I don’t think I would qualify for the government assistance because I think I would slightly exceed the cut-off. On the other hand, it would assuredly be cheaper for me to pay the fine than try to get coverage at an exorbitant price. Perhaps the fine does not pertain in my case because of VA coverage. If this is the case, the dorks in charge would do well to make note of that up front.
For all the fal-de-rol about health care, I don’t think any of the politicians wanting to tamper with it have given it any thought at all. I have totally lost confidence in the government and have put my faith in a timely outbreak of swine flu down there on the pestilent Potomac.


11 posted on 09/08/2009 3:28:18 PM PDT by mathurine (qu)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

But, but, but, I thought it was going to be free. The next thing you know Obama will want me to pay for my house, my car and my gasoline.


12 posted on 09/08/2009 3:28:50 PM PDT by Eleven Bravo 6 319thID
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To: Anti-Bubba182
Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as President Barack Obama met Democratic leaders to search for ways to salvage his health care overhaul.

Show me the clause in the Constitution that gives Congress the authority to make me to buy anything. This has to be un-Constitutional.
13 posted on 09/08/2009 3:29:04 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: Anti-Bubba182

This is insane!
-
“Just as auto coverage is now mandatory in most states,
Baucus would a require that all Americans get health insurance...
Penalties for failing to get insurance would start at
$750 a year for individuals and $1,500 for families.”
-
“It would require insurers to take all applicants,
regardless of age or health.
But smokers could be charged higher premiums.
And 60-year-olds could be charged five times as much
for a policy as 20-year-olds.”
-
Comparing this to auto insurance is absurd.
Go ahead, try to get your auto insurance
to cover a “preexisting condition”.
And just how do they plan to distinguish smokers from non-smokers?
Will there be mandatory nicotine testing?
What about alcoholics, queers, and other “high risk” individuals?
Men can’t get pregnant and are not as likely to get booby cancer.
Should women pay more than men?
Where does this train of though end?


14 posted on 09/08/2009 3:31:20 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Only Republicans and other folks who pay taxes will have to pay the fine.

Those below a certain income will get a government reimbursement check.


15 posted on 09/08/2009 3:33:51 PM PDT by o2bfree (This president is giving me a headache!)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
Show me the clause in the Constitution that gives Congress the authority to make me to buy anything.

It's that same law they makes you buy first-class health insurance for all public employees.

16 posted on 09/08/2009 3:36:03 PM PDT by 386wt (Still clinging to my clunker here in Ruralville...)
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To: dfwgator

Mitt is toast. Baucus should be also.


17 posted on 09/08/2009 3:37:20 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: o2bfree

They are telling those people their check in the mail. They will get screwed too.


18 posted on 09/08/2009 3:39:18 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Anti-Bubba182
The fine, I'm guessing, would be a stipulation on getting the earned income tax credit - if you fail to have insurance, you don't qualify for it, and the ‘helping’ would be simply upping the tax credit, which, really, is constitutional, as long as taxes are constitutional. That the government decides to put more strings on tax credits, or requirements to use deductions, is part of the purview of the government.

But sanity is missing from this debate. The focus is solely upon insurance, and there is the flaw in the system. The only thing that universal insurance brings is universal increases in costs. Prices might dip at the onset, but they will rise back up to nominal levels in the short run, and consistently rise afterward, especially with the automatic circular taxation that's built into this plan. If the drug companies are taxed more, they'll simply pass those costs onto consumers, through their insurance, and the insurance will raise prices to deal with increased costs, and their own hits from taxes.

The universal mandate, of everyone being covered without attention to previous conditions, as well as the permission to charge higher rates to smokers, just opens the door even further - Any non-government sanctioned behavior can result in permission to raise rates on that class of people - be it soda drinkers or those who enjoy McDonalds more than the prescribed number of times a month, to shoppers at WalMart if that's what they want. The universal requirement to issue insurance to anyone, no matter what their condition, will mean an immediate flight from higher priced plans to the cheapest plan, causing another increase in rates.

Add on a system that will be choked with patients - when was the last time the doctor said 'come on in today, my afternoon's free - hospitals that already push off elective surgeries and emergency rooms that are over subscribed already, and you have ever ingredient for higher costs without end.

Oh, yeah, don't forgot the government institutions which will be created to manage what doesn't need their attention, and the costs associated with hiring another 50,000 government workers.

19 posted on 09/08/2009 3:40:06 PM PDT by kingu (Party for rent - conservative opinions not required.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
The news just keeps going downhill.

The MSM is tripping over itself to explain why it's okay for everyone to believe and accept bho's latest tyranny and his Utopian dreams for a socialist United States.

Talking head:

"... Conservatives were alarmed by bho's latest plan for government control of...

... but we have tapes where you can clearly hear President Bush/ President Reagan/ President Bush who also or nearly, errh, that is... almost said something which sounded kind of like, uhm, nearly the same as what you think you just heard bho say but actually he didn't say it and if you think you heard bho say it, actually you didn't."
© George Soros


*Camera pans to lasered white smile on bimbo/bimbette


20 posted on 09/08/2009 3:46:38 PM PDT by bd476
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To: bd476
"The news just keeps going downhill. "

Nothing else can happen with bad people in charge.

21 posted on 09/08/2009 3:49:14 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Fines aren’t new: the plan passed by Kennedy’s committee would:
“Require all individuals to have insurance that meets minimum coverage standards. Enforced through an excise tax equal to a percentage of the premium for the lowest cost option available through the Health Insurance Exchange in the area where the individual resides. Exemptions will
be granted for financial hardship; if the lowest cost plan option exceeds 10% of an individual’s income; and if the individual has income below 100% of the poverty level.”
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/healthreform_sbs_full.pdf

In short, you’d be fined an amount equal to your share of the premium you would have had to pay had you gotten coverage through the Exchange, but this fine could not exceed 10% of your income.

Kennedy’s bill would “Provide refundable tax credits
to individuals and families with incomes between 100 and 400% FPL to purchase insurance through the Health Insurance
Exchange. The level of the premium tax credit could be set
as a percentage of income or as a percentage of the premium, with additional limits on cost-sharing.”

Thus, a family of 4 at $100K income (i.e. above 400% poverty) would face a premium cost of $15,000, but their fine would be capped at $10,000. It would be cheaper to go without coverage, but then again, you’d also have nothing to show for it. If you’re willing to pay $10K in fines, then it only costs you $5K extra to buy a policy valued at $15K. This is why the gang in DC assumes most will simply buy coverage rather than pay the fine etc.


22 posted on 09/08/2009 3:52:00 PM PDT by DrC
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To: Anti-Bubba182
Anti-Bubba182 wrote: " 'The news just keeps going downhill. '

Nothing else can happen with bad people in charge."

Well said, succinctly put, that is the truth Anti-Bubba182.

23 posted on 09/08/2009 3:57:29 PM PDT by bd476
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To: Anti-Bubba182

I’ve been waiting on actually retiring until I could hit the age that would let me continue with my current insurance with the same payments I make (6 months from now).If they pass this insurance, I’m thinking of just retiring now, cashing out the retirement account in cash (stashing in the SB&T- Simmons[mattress]bank & trust) and then claiming I can’t afford healthcare....won’t have any actual income for about 2 years so I can qualify for a deadbeat....sheeeeetttttt....just might vote Democrat!!!!


24 posted on 09/08/2009 3:57:43 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Great news. Let them talk some more and continue crafting terms and conditions that are mandatory.

Just adds more people to our corner of the argument.


25 posted on 09/08/2009 3:59:10 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Eleven Bravo 6 319thID

That is absurd! You shouldn’t have to! /s


26 posted on 09/08/2009 4:01:49 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Mandatory, huh?

What happened to choice? To options?

I know, I know. This is just the latest scheme to enlist “bi-partisanship,” under the guise of “cost savings.”

I don’t know whether I should laugh or cry.


27 posted on 09/08/2009 4:02:30 PM PDT by elizabethgrace
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To: Anti-Bubba182
Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance

How much would this be in Pesos, dear leader ?

28 posted on 09/08/2009 4:11:10 PM PDT by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

ME LIKE-EE


29 posted on 09/08/2009 4:14:16 PM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

The government will call it a “love offering” or “fellow countryman assistance plan” or some crap like that and the guilt-ridden liberal will suck it down. Pathetic.


30 posted on 09/08/2009 4:26:00 PM PDT by vpintheak (4-times an extremist)
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To: norraad

There is no way to force mandates on the people in the Constitution. There are presently no mandates on the American people. We should protest loudly.


31 posted on 09/08/2009 4:32:05 PM PDT by Tarpon (The Joker's plan -- Slavery by debt so large it can never be repaid...)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
Maybe they should fine people who can’t get a job too. That’s next. -------------------- Probably will be next but there will, ofcourse, be exemptions as determined by the administration's czar of fines. A system is already being set up to administer this program through ACORN. /s
32 posted on 09/08/2009 5:13:17 PM PDT by Joan Kerrey
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To: Anti-Bubba182; Cinnamontea; AndyTheBear; KeatsforFirstDog; truthandlife; Raebie; Popman; ...
Fines proposed for going without health insurance ($3,800 FINE-Big Drudge Headline!!

If dems think they're unpopular now - what with the Van Jones stuff - wait til they spring this one on "the people"....

33 posted on 09/08/2009 5:25:43 PM PDT by GOPJ (Who received the Van Jones FBI reports and who over-ruled the findings? fr:thouworm)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
I can't remember where I heard it {probably here on FR or on Hotair.com}, but if healthcare is a right, how can you force people to buy it? It's like forcing someone to pay a fine because they didn't buy their free speech this month.

Or to fine them because they don't have a gun.

34 posted on 09/08/2009 5:25:45 PM PDT by Stegall Tx (Democrats: raising your taxes; cheating on theirs.)
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To: Tarpon

There is no way to force mandates on the people in the Constitution. There are presently no mandates on the American people. We should protest loudly.


Hope it’s not too late. The way things are going a new government is being set up, right under our noses, which will facilitate just about anything this regime comes up with.

We’re protesting loudly now and the radicals just plod along with no fear while the press cheers them on.

What I’m not seeing is legal challenges and don’t know why.


35 posted on 09/08/2009 5:37:55 PM PDT by Joan Kerrey
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To: GOPJ

I went to the Jackson Mi tea party today and I estimate that the crowd was 65 to 70% retirement age. I just cannot fathom what kind of idiocy is causing them to drive away the most rock solid block of sure thing voters there is.


36 posted on 09/08/2009 5:46:28 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: cripplecreek
Maybe they think they won't have to worry about “voters” in the future... Or they're so arrogant and narcissistic that they think they'll win them all back. It's a mystery.
37 posted on 09/08/2009 6:09:03 PM PDT by GOPJ (Who received the Van Jones FBI reports and who over-ruled the findings? fr:thouworm)
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To: Stegall Tx
I can't remember where I heard it {probably here on FR or on Hotair.com}, but if healthcare is a right, how can you force people to buy it? It's like forcing someone to pay a fine because they didn't buy their free speech this month. Or to fine them because they don't have a gun.

Also, if it is a right how can they ration it for old people? Is it a right until you hit 50(or whatever age)and them suddenly becomes an elective? People don't think when they hear the clap trap liberals put out, if they would just engage their brains there wouldn't be enough liberals in this country to change a light bulb, let alone win an office.

38 posted on 09/08/2009 6:53:34 PM PDT by calex59 (Hope for a new job counts for creating a job! The dimwits are truly insane.)
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To: cripplecreek

bttt


39 posted on 09/08/2009 8:18:23 PM PDT by GOPJ (Who received the Van Jones FBI reports and who over-ruled the findings? fr:thouworm)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

We don’t want government healthcare anyway.


40 posted on 09/08/2009 8:23:17 PM PDT by Salvation (With God all things are possible.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

How much time in prison if you don’t/won’t pay?


41 posted on 09/08/2009 8:26:19 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: dalereed
They will get more resistance with this than they think.

Any Politician supporting fines should pay at the polls even for suggesting them.

42 posted on 09/08/2009 8:32:53 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Anti-Bubba182

I hope they get so much that they can’t build jails fast enough!


43 posted on 09/08/2009 8:35:20 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: cc2k

The one thimg always omitted from these dumb ass analogies with car insurance being “required” by many states is the fact that not one of them that I’m aware of requires anything but liability type insurance (That covers the other guy, not you)

Lendors almost always require that you have full coverage of your vehicle as a condition of loaning you the money but that’s a whole nother matter.


44 posted on 09/08/2009 9:07:28 PM PDT by Graybeard58 ( Selah.)
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To: CodeToad
Marxist are sooooo easy to predict.

This is why the real poor are NOT protesting for this "reform". Marxists are best with students and the "intellectuals" never with real workers...

45 posted on 09/09/2009 9:50:32 AM PDT by GOPJ (Who received the Van Jones FBI reports and who over-ruled the findings? fr:thouworm)
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