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'We're pinned down:' 4 U.S. Marines die in Afghan ambush
McClatchy ^ | 9/8/2009 | Jonathan S. Landay

Posted on 09/08/2009 8:26:52 PM PDT by Saije

We walked into a trap, a killing zone of relentless gunfire and rocket barrages from Afghan insurgents hidden in the mountainsides and in a fortress-like village where women and children were replenishing their ammunition.

"We will do to you what we did to the Russians," the insurgent's leader boasted over the radio, referring to the failure of Soviet troops to capture Ganjgal during the 1979-89 Soviet occupation.

Dashing from boulder to boulder, diving into trenches and ducking behind stone walls as the insurgents maneuvered to outflank us, we waited more than an hour for U.S. helicopters to arrive, despite earlier assurances that air cover would be five minutes away.

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.

"We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We've lost today," Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter's repeated demands for helicopters.

(Excerpt) Read more at mcclatchydc.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; ambush; fallen; marines; nsp; nss; oef
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1 posted on 09/08/2009 8:26:52 PM PDT by Saije
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To: Saije

Kinder, gentler Obama.


2 posted on 09/08/2009 8:28:24 PM PDT by qwertypie
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To: Saije

What brave fellows. Thank you. I am very sad.


3 posted on 09/08/2009 8:28:43 PM PDT by spyone (ridiculum)
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To: Saije

Eternal rest...


4 posted on 09/08/2009 8:30:05 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod
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To: Saije
The bastard is killing our soldiers! He hates the U.S.! He even stated he didn't want us to win.

This madness can't go on. It is the best of us who are dying in Afghanistan.

5 posted on 09/08/2009 8:31:17 PM PDT by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: Saije

From the call to combat arms, it mattered.


6 posted on 09/08/2009 8:33:43 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Saije
These four brave Marines were not killed by the Afghanis.

They were killed by Fat Jack Murtha, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obama and the rest of the Marxist 'RATS including many "judges" on our federal "courts." That's who REALLY killed these Marines.

TAKE THE CUFFS OFF OF OUR MILITARY YOU PIGGIES!!! That goes for you too McCain!

7 posted on 09/08/2009 8:35:50 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (ObamaCare! When "natural causes" just isn't good enough!)
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To: Saije

Boy, do we have the wrong President. The man can’t fight his way out of a paper bag.


8 posted on 09/08/2009 8:36:54 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Saije

Hey Judge Carter. AMERICAN Marines are being killed because the Kenyan usurper’s rules of engagement (ROE). The military’s hands are tied thanks to Hussein.

Time to leave Afghanistan. With these ROE - our troops are sitting ducks.

Drudge needs to run this story.


9 posted on 09/08/2009 8:37:56 PM PDT by Frantzie (Lou Dobbs & Glenn Beck- American Heroes! Bill O'Reilly = Liar)
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To: Saije
I think a few dozen daisy cutters dropped from 50,000 feet would do the job.
10 posted on 09/08/2009 8:40:33 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied, the economy died)
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To: Saije

There seems to be an effort to use left wing anti war sources to gin up some on FR to join in with the Marxists, IslamOfascists, Third Party, etc.


11 posted on 09/08/2009 8:41:57 PM PDT by SoCalPol (Reagan Republican for Palin 2012)
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To: Stepan12

Those four Marines are worth a million Van Jones.
God rest them.


12 posted on 09/08/2009 8:43:31 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Saije

Must be the damn army refusing artillary and air support. The marines would never leave their comrades hanging out there to dry, ROE be damned.


13 posted on 09/08/2009 8:45:47 PM PDT by Roklok
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To: SoCalPol

I didn’t read anything left wing in the article.

The Reporter was right in the middle of this and wrote:

“I wasn’t as terrified as I was angry: angry at the absence of air support, angry that there was no artillery fire,
angry that Williams’ interpreter had been killed,
ngry at the realization that the operation had
obviously been betrayed and angry at myself for not bolting with the others.”

If it’s left wing to be mad about the ROE that lead to 4 Marines being killed then I guess I’m left wing.


14 posted on 09/08/2009 8:47:05 PM PDT by Saije
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To: Saije

This story made me absolutely sick. As Fauxbama opines about the phony health care ‘crisis’ American soldiers DIE because of his policy of engagement. Wonder if he has read that war assessment yet. The sad fact that like much of every thing else with this president it is all talk. Afghanistan is not even on the map with this guy. Rest assured this will not be a lead story (if a story at all) in the msm.


15 posted on 09/08/2009 8:47:47 PM PDT by n2dubes
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To: Saije
“Afghan insurgents hidden in the mountainsides and in a fortress-like village where women and children were replenishing their ammunition.”

Not all civilians are “innocent civilians”.

16 posted on 09/08/2009 8:48:10 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: qwertypie; LucyT; Fred Nerks
U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Many Freepers predicted this would happen during the 2008 election cycle, if Obama was elected.

Now we reap the fruits of having a whacko liberal socialist as president.

Before Obama is through, he will cause the needless deaths of thousands of US soldiers.Soon Obama will start cutting back on the necessities required by our soldiers in Afghanistan.Welcome to Vietnam II, all over again.Brought to you by our kinder, gentler , usurper Democrat Party.

May they burn in hell for this!!!

These silly ROE that Obama has foisted on our soldiers MUST be abandoned .

17 posted on 09/08/2009 8:48:44 PM PDT by Candor7 (The effective weapons against Fascism are ridicule, derision, and truth (Member NRA)
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To: Saije

My understanding is that now, if we see the ARMED enemy, as LONG as he does not actually fire on our guys, then our guys canNOT open fire on them.

Why is it that lefties really enjoy long “sort of” wars...?

Indeed, that is the war subType that REALLY makes Americans mad and bleeds the country dry.


18 posted on 09/08/2009 8:49:52 PM PDT by gaijin
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These bastards in the Pentagon and White House are murdering these boys. If he will not support our people with artillery and air support, Hussein Obama should surrender and bring them home. That is what he wants anyway. Why prolong it and waste the lives of these fine men?
19 posted on 09/08/2009 8:50:07 PM PDT by Godwin1
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To: Saije

Totally insane. These new rules of engagement ARE KILLING OUR SOLDIERS AND MARINES. If this president is not serious about winning then we must get out now before we lose one more American.


20 posted on 09/08/2009 8:51:15 PM PDT by Cruz ("Wherever there is a jackboot stomping on a human face there will be a well-heeled Western liberal t)
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To: gaijin

This is cuz of that German thing the other day with the destruction of those 2 fuel trucks —Germans called in the airstrike, and it killed 90 people.

Hey, in war...? PEOPLE DIE...!!


21 posted on 09/08/2009 8:51:20 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Roklok

The “damn” army? Don’t know what that means but U. S. Army was there too.


22 posted on 09/08/2009 8:51:23 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: freema
let 'em fight and give them support, or pull 'em all out now.

Freema... pissed off ping...

Several U.S. officers said they suspected that the insurgents had been tipped off by sympathizers in the local Afghan security forces or by the village elders, who announced over the weekend that they were accepting the authority of the local government.

"Whatever we do always leaks," said Marine Lt. Ademola Fabayo, 28, a New Yorker who was born in Nigeria and is the operations officer for the trainers from the 3rd Marine Division. "You can't trust even some of their soldiers or officers."



23 posted on 09/08/2009 8:51:50 PM PDT by stylin19a
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To: Saije

Obama would slaughter our young military men and the media is dead silent, its a good war now. In fact, Jay Bookman writing in the Atlanta paper today talks about giving it more time, hanging in there. Jay Bookman is a hard core liberal, who hated the war when Bush was President. Now he can excuse this because The Chosen One is President.

Time to get out NOW.


24 posted on 09/08/2009 8:53:29 PM PDT by Bulldawg Fan (Victory is the last thing Murtha and his fellow Defeatists want.)
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To: gaijin

Remember the Black Hawk Down thing —the father of one of those dead Rangers would not shake Clinton’s hand, and that was because they couldn’t air evac the boy out while he was bleeding to death.

Bubba wouldn’t authorize tanks or AC-130’s to the Mog “cuz it looked bad”.


25 posted on 09/08/2009 8:54:04 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: ansel12

You got army controlling the artillary and air, that seem to be more worried about making rank than supporting the grunts. We had these same types in Vietnam. We used to call them purfumed princes.


26 posted on 09/08/2009 8:54:44 PM PDT by Roklok
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To: TexasFreeper2009

I like the way you think. God Bless Texas! I wish you were the Secretary of Defense.

It irritates me that the author of this article uses the term “Afghan insurgents.” Call them the enemy, call them the Taliban, call them Muslim terrorists, but don’t sugarcoat these scumbags.

As for civilian casualities, if our current rules of engagement were the rules of engagement during World War II, we would all be speaking German now....or Japanese. If civilians die in Afghanistan, it’s because the cowardly Muslim enemy is hiding behind the skirts of women and children.

The hands of our brave military should be untied!


27 posted on 09/08/2009 8:55:32 PM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (The AFL-CIO and SEIU.....two domestic terrorist organizations doing Obama's dirty work for him.)
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To: Roklok

“Damn Army”

You are out of line. We dont damn our military here. Our soldiers, Marines, and the rest answer to King Hussien and if the Army did withold fire, it was on direct orders from Washington. Damn Barrack Obama, not our Army.


28 posted on 09/08/2009 8:57:15 PM PDT by Bulldawg Fan (Victory is the last thing Murtha and his fellow Defeatists want.)
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To: Saije; Brad's Gramma; Cindy; Salvation; trussell; Alamo-Girl; Fiddlstix; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ...
From the excerpt above:

"...U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.

"We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We've lost today," Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter's repeated demands for helicopters... "



God Bless these brave Marines and please comfort their families.

God please help our country.

29 posted on 09/08/2009 8:57:23 PM PDT by bd476
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To: Saije

Prayers for the fallen. Hope this administration and the higher reaches haven’t forgotten we’re still in a shooting war.


30 posted on 09/08/2009 8:57:44 PM PDT by BradyLS (DO NOT FEED THE BEARS!)
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To: bd476

I join in prayer for these, our heroes, and their loved ones!


31 posted on 09/08/2009 8:58:01 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Roklok
You got army controlling the artillary and air, that seem to be more worried about making rank than supporting the grunts.

That is a scum bag thing to say, and stupid to boot, sounds like troll scum to me.

32 posted on 09/08/2009 8:58:33 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Roklok

Some here, including you are quick to turn on the Army when you have no information whatsoever that the Army was even involved in the artillery support or decision making. I believe the Marine Corps has its own artillery. Its your retired MARINE General Jim Jones who betrayed every military person by taking a high position in Obama’s administration. Throw that silver his way, he is earning it.


33 posted on 09/08/2009 8:59:54 PM PDT by Bulldawg Fan (Victory is the last thing Murtha and his fellow Defeatists want.)
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To: Saije

a must read.....


34 posted on 09/08/2009 9:01:06 PM PDT by dennisw (Free Republic is an island in a sea of zombies)
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To: Candor7

0bama is an enemy of the United States.

He is directly killing these fighting men.


35 posted on 09/08/2009 9:01:42 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
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To: Saije

Having lived through the Vietnam war yrs, this is typical of trying to wear down the general public to the war.

Those who want America to pull out are those in hopes of another IslamOfascists attack on the streets of America.

Three times the amount of Americans who have been killed in the war are killed by drunk drivers a year in the U.S.


36 posted on 09/08/2009 9:02:56 PM PDT by SoCalPol (Reagan Republican for Palin 2012)
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To: Saije; neverdem
The significance of the story might go well beyond the tragic death of four Marines who were betrayed into an ambush by their Afghan colleagues and whose deaths might have been averted if rules of engagement had been less restrictive. The broader significance might be that we are witnessing the initial stampings out from a new template being put in place by the mainstream media which will be followed by a series of stories designed to illustrate the futility of the war in Afghanistan.

Please note that the succeeding article about IED losses in Afghanistan is in much the same vein.

It does not much matter whether these stories are essentially true or not what really matters is the perception created by what is produced from this template. We saw the media relentlessly undermine support for the Iraq war and we have every reason to believe they might be trying to repeat in Afghanistan.

Whether one supports or opposes Barak Obama's presumed intensification of the war in Afghanistan, there can be no doubt that the media will play a role.

Perception is policy


37 posted on 09/08/2009 9:03:35 PM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: SoCalPol

If you mean that the current ROE in Afghanistan are designed so that we can’t win and will lose Marines and soldiers needlessly so eventually we back here at home will just give up, then I agree with you.


38 posted on 09/08/2009 9:05:17 PM PDT by Saije
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To: Saije

McClatchy screwed up,we aren’t allowed to mention enemy casualties due to an Obama administration guideline.


39 posted on 09/08/2009 9:05:24 PM PDT by HospiceNurse
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To: FlingWingFlyer

This kind of smacks of the way the Viet Nam war was conducted..from DC..and the ROE in place then” don’t shoot at the enemy until they shoot at you first...”


40 posted on 09/08/2009 9:05:43 PM PDT by celtic gal (My Mob name is" Molly Maguire" per Hannity...we all need mob names !)
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To: Bulldawg Fan

An Army 10th Mountain unit had the artillery and maybe the helicopters, but you are right no one knows what the story is, by the way the army had men in the operation as well.


41 posted on 09/08/2009 9:05:57 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: n2dubes

When he reads the assessment of battle damage he won’t give a flying damn.


42 posted on 09/08/2009 9:07:11 PM PDT by celtic gal (My Mob name is" Molly Maguire" per Hannity...we all need mob names !)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Can we say Viet Nam all over again with this Resident in the WH?


43 posted on 09/08/2009 9:08:08 PM PDT by celtic gal (My Mob name is" Molly Maguire" per Hannity...we all need mob names !)
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To: Saije
U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.

WTF!!??

Bring them home, there's a Regime that needs changin' back here. We'll have their back 24/7.

44 posted on 09/08/2009 9:09:07 PM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: SoCalPol
Having lived through the Vietnam war yrs, this is typical of trying to wear down the general public to the war.

I have to disagree with you, this was a big and ambush, we lost 13 guys from our side, it has to be reported because it is a big story.

45 posted on 09/08/2009 9:09:38 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Saije

That is Not what I said.

You are hell bent on your anti war shit gathering up the
anti war third party loons and those who don’t understand
anything about the military.

Move on over to DU with the other anti war trash


46 posted on 09/08/2009 9:09:57 PM PDT by SoCalPol (Reagan Republican for Palin 2012)
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To: celtic gal

Exactly the same.


47 posted on 09/08/2009 9:10:22 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (ObamaCare! When "natural causes" just isn't good enough!)
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To: Saije

Ganjgal should be levelled in an airstrike that surrounding inhabitants will recount to their grand children and great grandchildren for decades to come as the day a huge fire claimed the village.

The villagers and elders were complicit in this ambush.

That said, Afghanistan is a tribal hellhole, mired in 700 AD with IEDs and automatic weapons.

It is not worth the life of ONE American, let alone 4 Marines.

I am seeing Vietnam all over again, writ large.

“Pacifying” a village here, a village there, does not work.

Muslims and Afghans will only respond to overwhelming force and the impossibility of victory without the total annihaltion of their culture and families. That is the deciding point for them.

That is what worked with the Japanese. Only when they were faced with total annihilation and the knowledge that they had an enemy willing to incinerate their cities did they surrender, and even then they almost did not.

Day after day, our soldiers are being maimed by crude IEDs, killed in ambushes, suffering in extreme heat and cold, being put in impossible situations trying to find and kill an enemy that wears no uniforms and is willing to hide behind women and children, as well as willing to use them as human bombs.

After eight years, we have not ever found Bin Laden or Al Zawahiri, we haven’t won the country, and we have given our forces suicidal rules of engagement.

And we are worried what the Afghans might think of us?

F’em and the camel they rode in on. Our people are worth more than theirs, period.

Kill the enemy and get the hell out. We won a World War on two fronts in half the time we have been in Afghanistan.

Enough already.


48 posted on 09/08/2009 9:10:26 PM PDT by exit82 (Sarah Palin is President No. 45. Get behind her, GOP, or get out of the way.)
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To: Saije

Prayers for their families. This is such a sad story.


49 posted on 09/08/2009 9:12:19 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Bulldawg Fan

Indeed. Prayers for our troops and support even when they don’t get it when they deserve and need it.

Political correctness caused these horrible losses.


50 posted on 09/08/2009 9:12:40 PM PDT by romanesq
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