Posted on 09/09/2009 7:42:32 AM PDT by Morgana
I found this while stumbling. Forgive me if it is a repost. The link below is a letter written from a Christian minister named Bruce Lowe. He graduated from the University of Arkadelphia, Arkansas in 1936. He is now a staunch defender of LGBT rights and has delineated a biblical justification for homosexual acceptance. He encourages equality before the law as well as equality within the church.
Here is the introduction to his letter. Every LGBTQQ Christian should take the time to read his words. I think it will make a lot of you feel a little bit better. (The specific biblical argument can be found in Appendix B of the letter)
http://www.godmademegay.com/Letter.htm
"I have been asked if Louise is real. Yes, and this was a real letter to her. Shortly after I had gone to my first pastorate out of the seminary, Louise invited my wife, Anna Marie, and me to have Sunday dinner with her family. That was over 50 years ago, and she has been one of our dearest friends ever since.
The last time we visited her she told me what I have related in the first sentence of this Letter. At that time I really knew nothing about homosexuality. I did have some suppositions-- quite negative--and had never thought I needed to study it. But her words made me want to know as much as I could learn about it.
When I began reading I soon realized things about myself I now deplore: I was ignorant of the many facts about homosexuality and what the Bible says about it. Without facts I had pre-judged it; I was prejudiced. With little thought I had read into the Bible what I presumed it ought to say instead of reading out of it what it does say.
(Excerpt) Read more at afterellen.com ...
Fa**ot? That’s really christan of you
No honest reading of the Bible can arrive at such a conclusion. Only Satan could do so, and that is exactly what is happening.
And yet Ian McKellan continues to feel the need to rip pages that specifically condemn homosexuality out of any Bible he comes across.
Faggot? I meant “filthy disease ridden queer presumably”
If you go to Appendix B of the letter itself, you’ll see a lot of parsing and spinning of Biblical passages. Satan has proven his ability to use God’s Word to turn people to him. This is just another instance.
Sick? Yes. New? Nope. Ultimately devastating to them? You bet!
Bruce Lowe is a graduate of Ouachita Baptist University in Arkadelphia, Arkansas (1936) and of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas (1946). He married Anna Marie in 1944; they have two sons and two grandsons. His ministry included the chaplaincy during World War II, pastorates in Louisiana, and teaching Bible at Louisiana College, Pineville.****** He left the ministry in 1966 and worked until retirement in the Office for****** Civil Rights of the U. S. Department of Health and Human Services.
I don’t see it either.........maybe it is just us? Or maybe their filthy diseases have made them “see things”????
I read the letter. He is so full of it.
This so-called pastor is a doofus. All of his “arguments” have been refuted many times. He is one of those who will say he did things “in Christ’s name” and will be told by Christ “I never knew you”. Sad, really.
Seriously, we don't have to be mean. We're all sinners in one way or another, and if we want to be judged as we are to judge, it is best to be firm...but kind.
To this end, I refer to it as Same Sex Affection Disorder (or being SSAD.)
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Many poohoo the Bible too that don't even go along with homosexuality.
2Tim.3:16
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
They selectively prefer the word of man over the Word of God.
There is a consequence to this:
Prov.15:10
[10] Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
Still, as I mentioned, those that reject homosexuality continue this verse. They prefer what fallible philosophers have to say not the Prophets and Apostles had to say - all under the inspiration of God. They ignore this too: Col.2:8 [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Assuming that every thing he says is so, so what? Let the homosexuals go to their own “accepting” churches. I don’t demand that the Catholics or Presbyterians or whatever preach my beliefs, nor do I permit them to demand that I agree with them.
True tolerance is not demanding that everyone agree with you, or with some position, but is allowing everyone to go to Hell in their own way, so long as they do not harm others physically, or through fraud. If they get their feelings hurt, that’s their lookout.
Unfortunately, it depends what version of the Bible we’re talking about. That’s one reason why the KJV had to be “revised” in the 1800’s.
Oh? No version I’ve ever used has condoned homosexuality.
Total nonsense. All versions of the Bible which are accurately translated basically say the same thing.
The only ones which don’t are those which purposely change the meaning.
Or engaging in sex with animals or children.
Surely God made those who have such urges. So their giving in to their urges must by definition be God’s will.
This article is actually a tour de force. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen such a collection of logical fallacies in one document.
If I had the time I’d go through and point out each one. But I have neither the time nor the patience for such nonsense.
Without reading the rest of this vomit, I know they are full of it. There is no Biblical “affirmation” of homosexuality, only in their dreams. There isn’t a single passage of Scripture that condones two men or two women “joining” in the same manner as a man and a woman in matrimony. In fact, when one does come across a passage describing same-gender “sexual relations”, you always find negative descriptors ( “abomination”, “vile”, “against nature”, “unseemly”, “given over to a reprobate {rejected} mind”, homosexuality is linked with sins of those who will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God, etc.).
When you take what the Bible says about sex outside of marriage (hetero or perverted) then couple that with how it blesses sexual relations within the a man/woman marriage covenant, there is no way anyone reading the Bible would walk away believing that it condones homosexuality, in any form! The only way one would even make such a claim with a straight face is like this person who already has their mind made up and will twist Scripture like a pretzel, in the name of “compassion” or to condone what they are already doing.
If “God Made me Gay” didn’t “God made me a Murderer” also? The moral relativism and reductio ad nauseum can get a little silly.
Agreed.
If Nature’s God intended to endorse same sex relationships, He wouldn’t have made humans as male and female.
Its a no-brainer even without scripture.
They would not try this crap with Islam...
If people preach falsehood in the name of Christianity, the true church should publicly condemn it, not tolerate it. This doesn’t mean we need to silence them, but we need to make it clear this isn’t just a minor doctrinal difference without another legitimate denomination.
There are only two options set down from when the worlds were formed. The one is chastity and the other heterosexuality. If one is Christian, Muslim, or Jewish there are no other valid options. You either devote your life to God or you devote your life to your opposite sex spouse. There is no ambiguity in the matter. References to eunuchs are never in relationship to homosexuality though many have distorted such things for political gain.
As for a secular perspective it should be just as clear. Homosexuality and all forms of extra-sexual behavior is an aberration and detrimental to the life of an organism and its ability to reproduce. I know there has been a misguided effort to cater to homosexuality and other forms of deviance but the basic fact that it is first and foremost unhealthy should be an indicator that something is wrong on a very basic level. Also it is well know that those who stray from heterosexuality and monogamy in a radical fashion tend to have a history of being sexually abused and or go on to abuse others.
There is no good reason to promote or teach fairy tales where these destructive unhealthy behaviors are concerned. They cost society far more than obesity and smoking when you track the cost of sexual permissiveness to its end. The effects on children are particularly devastating. Any Christian who believes that sexual deviance should be celebrated should be excommunicated and shunned. It is a destructive hateful lie they are promoting but the beast is a liar and he has set up his castle along the Potomac.
http://www.americansfortruth.com
It is also an insane rationalization and extreme distortion of the reason for the Biblical admonition against homosexuality.
HE says:
“Down through history same-gender sex was universally considered to be acts by (heterosexual) people who had chosen to engage in perverted sex.”
And that is what he bases his whole explanation for acceptance on. That wan’t the reasoning in the Bible so his long winded excuse for why WE didn’t/don’t understand that GOD made a mistake is just ridiculous.
I went to the website - it’s clearly a gay activist place with virtually no focus on Christianity except trying to trick regular Christians into thinking Homosexuality should be seen as something healthy and loving. It’s not. It’s lust based and “sexual organ” centric - to put it bluntly.
Gays, as people, can be pretty nice and I’ve known many but the act of homosexuality isn’t celebratory.
“Reverend” Lowe graduated from the same seminary as 2 other so-called reverends named Rick Warren and Mike Huckabee. Huckabee also went to Ouachita Baptist University. What is in the water at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary?
If it’s anything like most seminaries, there are tons of classes on psychology. Brainwashing. Seen it.
You can rationalize anything. That doesn’t make it right.
From my skewed interpretation of this “scholarly” analysis of homoerotic relations, it would seem to me that Pastor Bruce has accepted fully the “science” of homoerotic determinism synthesized over the last 100 years as fact then manipulates the Word of God to so that He agrees with the “science”. This seems backwards to me, but then I am just a fearful clinger.
This kind of reasoning is what puts the sophistry in sophistication. Seems fairly prideful to so confidently commit these comments to the record.
The NappyOne
As a document, the letter and its appendices rely on sophistry to make a wrong thing “right”. As appealing as the idea may be for some folks, the Holy Bible does not support or condone homosexual sex acts. Indeed, these are specifically condemned.
That said, I don’t think it is possible to ascertain whether people are born homosexualists or whether homosexuality is a disorder that can be treated. My own personal view is that homosexualists are probably born that way.
I am of the view that Christians are always on safer grounds when we spend less time fussing over the sins of others and focus instead on working out our own salvation with fear and trembling, as we are told to do.
This does not absolve us from identifying wrongdoing or eschewing Evil, but it does provide a perfectly good opportunity to apply Christ’s instruction to “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Applying Christ’s instructions is what Christians are supposed to do. Anything outside of that is extraneous and fraught with peril.
Of course not! Within Christianity, there are enough “tares”, if you will, who are guided, not by “every word that precedes out of the mouth of God”, but by the misguided notion of “love”, “compassion” and “tolerance”. These tares aren’t concerned about the wheat rising up to physically slay them because even they know that would be against the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Within Islam, the more rabid element threaten death to those who just “insult Islam”! Imagine what they would do to someone who would dare suggest that Allah didn’t have a problem with homosexuality! *shudders*
Oh brother, what a weak argument.
>>No honest reading of the Bible can arrive at such a conclusion. Only Satan could do so, and that is exactly what is happening.<<
Although I agree with your first sentence, I disagree with the use of the word “only” in the second. Man can do it as well.
I saw a gay preacher make these same arguments back in the late 1990’s. It is clearly a logical leap to interpret scripture the way he, and this article, do. It just goes to show that people (all of us) really want to find justification for the things we do - especially the things we feel strongly compelled to do. And sex is a biggie. I don’t condemn homosexuals any more than I condemn heterosexuals that shack up or sleep around. However, I most definitely see the activity itself as a sin. And when heterosexuals start wearing “adulterist (or fornicators) pride” parades, I’ll be just as against it.
Some issues can be reasonably argued by discussing scriptural supports - an example would be the HELL: Eternal Torment or Complete Annihilation? debate held right here on FR - but this one is not intellectually honest.
Say what?
Here is the KJV translation of Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
This is an assertion on his part unsupported by historical documentation.
The ancient Greeks tolerated erotic pederasty as a means of social stability and cohesion of the military class (Reference: Xenophon’s Persian Expedition), but it was certainly not without controversy nor universal acceptance. That young men were expected to become husbands and fathers later in life, and in turn, to become the older member of a pederast pairing, erotic or plutonic, argues just the opposite of Pastor Bruce’s assertion that, “Down through history same-gender sex was universally considered to be acts by (heterosexual) people who had chosen to engage in perverted sex.” In fact, it blows it out of the water.
The NappyOne
This is not a Biblical affirmation but rather a man’s justification for what is clearly stated as an abomination in the Bible.
It’s amazing what qualifies as a ‘Christian Minister’ these days, eh?
But. Tolerance requires that we not force them in any way. Offend them. That's OK.
And they are likewise allowed to offend us. But not shut us up by various “hate-speech” or “hate-crime” statutes. That's what I'm saying.
Bruce
Exactly true. But the Greeks were way too concerned with all things sexual. They became decadent, and in turn, their decadence destroyed them.
It was like an addiction, and, as with all addictions, the “kick” had to be greater and greater to achieve the same effect.
The so-called “gay community” is ample proof of that. The more perversion, the better. The more antisocial, antireligious, antihuman, the better.
The advent of modern psychiatry as a religion has fed this monster and now its appetite cannot be satisfied.
True; God loves the sinner but hates the sin. We don't have to approve of it, but better to let them know that we pray for them as we quietly chastize them.
The New American Bible: Leviticus 20:13
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.”
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/leviticus/leviticus20.htm
Douay-Rheims Bible: Leviticus 20:13
“If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.”
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/03020.htm
But what of the claim that the KJV translation was changed?
Seems pretty consistent with every other translation, including the literal translation.
Homosexuality is specifically condemned in the Bible and in language that it is rather difficult to ignore.
The King James translation is accurate in this and most other verses.
“Applying Christ’s instructions is what Christians are supposed to do. Anything outside of that is extraneous and fraught with peril.”
Perfectly fine on an individual basis, but judgement also requires us to protect our children and our values. When they force themselves on my children in the public schools, in government regulations, inject themselves into MY life without being invited, try to force ME to accept the unacceptable, fighting that every step of the way is a DUTY.
I have had friends who were homosexual. All I ever asked of them was NOT to flaunt it in my face. When it happened, in spite of my request, they proved themselves no longer worthy of my friendship. Friendship is a two way street. I respected their privacy. They did NOT respect me. End of story.
“But what of the claim that the KJV translation was changed?”
“Seems pretty consistent with every other translation, including the literal translation.”
Hebrew Scriptures makes the exact same statement. There is no way it could be mistranslated in any way.
They’re very similar here, I agree.
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