Skip to comments.Democrats to Obama: Um, what exactly are we getting for selling out Poland to Russia?
Posted on 09/18/2009 5:44:31 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
What are you getting? Youre getting the same thing you got when he sold out Honduras to Chavez over that non-coup coup they staged: The warm fuzzy glow of knowing that George Bush would heartily disapprove.
But some members of Obamas own party, however, had a simple question for the administration: if this was a return to realism, and a concession to Russias long and vocal opposition to the missile program, what, exactly, was the U.S. getting in return for fundamentally changing it?
And almost certainly, the answer leads back to Iran But Russia has given no ground on those questions, with Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov bluntly opposing tougher sanctions. And Medvedev suggested Thursday that any new American political capital would be more likely go toward the longer-term Obama Administration goal of deep cuts to the two countries nuclear weapons stocks If they wanted to engage in a process of negotiation over this they should have been transparent with the Polish and the Czech governments, said Randy Scheunemann, the top foreign policy advisor to the presidential campaign of Senator John McCain, who said cancelling the missiles in the countries was seriously misguided.
Unilateral preemptive concession in the hope that your negotiating partners will follow suit? Anyone who believes that will work with Russia hasnt looked at 70 years of Soviet history and 200 years of Russian history, Scheunemann said.
(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...
The shaft. Hope and change. Betrayed. Call it what you like.
What will we get? I don’t know that but Obama will probably get the Nobel Peace Prize for selling out Eastern Europe.
So why did Mac’s boy think Obie would act differently????
....by selling out he saves money to use for more “programs” to buy votes with in the cities.
Eastern European immigrants to the US are some of the most conservative people I know. This will only reinforce that.
I only want to hear what Dick Cheney thinks of this. Since George W. Bush will be too courteous to say anything. :(
They might not be getting anything for Obama screwing over our allies...
But it looks like Obama cronies GE and Morgan Stanley are.
Keep tying this to Hussein personally. It will become the Chamberlain moment of our generation. Pointing out that there is a Clinton involved is a plus for our historical view.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Prime Minister Winston Churchill
It has nothing to do with Obama being a “coward”. He, the Russians, Hugo Chavez and the like, are all on-board together.
I believe that Russia is indeed no longer THE ENEMY. Rabid dictators like obama, jung-ill, obama II in iran, etc. are the greatest danger. Russia went through such hell in WWII and stalinism that they are pretty much excused for anything, excluding the Katyn horror (stalin again). Our cooperation in space is very inspiring. An American-Russian defense pact would be a bit AWESOME. Add the Chinese and Japanese and you’d have PAX!
Are you out of your mind?
Teaching moment: Told my high schooler this morning about Alger Hiss and Harry Dexter White. Told him we no longer have Kremlin operatives in administrative roles. Now we elect them directly.
Why he did this all in the middle of the night with no prior discussion with anybody or the countries?
Why was Hillary dissed by (who was it?) the Chechs in our phone call telling them we just effed them over defenseless?
Why has the long legged mack daddy not explained his reasoning, as he flip flops AGAIN?
"So let me be clear: Iran's nuclear and ballistic missile activity poses a real threat, not just to the United States, but to Iran's neighbors and our allies. The Czech Republic and Poland have been courageous in agreeing to host a defense against these missiles. As long as the threat from Iran persists, we will go forward with a missile defense system that is cost-effective and proven. (Applause.) If the Iranian threat is eliminated, we will have a stronger basis for security, and the driving force for missile defense construction in Europe will be removed. (Applause.)
About the 39th paragrah down here
Money to re-build ACORN, or whatever it calls itself now.
"the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the [20th] century" -Russian leader Vladimir Putin on the collapse of the Soviet Union...
"World democratic opinion has yet to realize the alarming implications of President Vladimir Putin's State of the Union speech on April 25, 2005, in which he said that the collapse of the Soviet Union represented the 'greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.'
Russia and the ChiComs have been holding joint war games every other year since 2005. The latest apparently took place on July 22-27 of this year.
"Russia and China will hold their joint military exercise on July 22-27 on the territories of the two countries. About 3,000 military men, 300 units of military hardware, over 40 planes and helicopters will take part in Peace Mission-2009 drills. About 1,500 servicemen, T-80 tanks, BMP-1 and BTR-70 armored vehicles, 22 aircraft, including two Il-76 cargo planes, five Su-24, five Su-25, five Su-27 fighters and five Mi-8 helicopters will represent Russia in the drills."
Russia, China hold Peace Mission 2009 joint exercise
The exercise involves about 3,000 Russian and Chinese servicemen, nearly 300 units of army military equipment and over 40 fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters. Photo: BMP-86A infantry fighting vehicles of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) of China.
 Russia, China plan new joint military exercises
By MARTIN SIEFF, UPI Senior News Analyst
Published: March 26, 2009
WASHINGTON, March 26 (UPI) -- The continuing tensions over Russia's refusal to sell its state-of-the-art land warfare advanced weapons systems to China hasn't interrupted the rhythm of major joint military exercises between the two major land powers on the Eurasian landmass. The latest in the regular, biennial series of exercises between the two nations has been confirmed for this summer.
The next in the now well-established series of exercises called Peace Mission 2009 will be carried out in northeastern China, the Russian Defense Ministry announced March 18, according to a report carried by the RIA Novosti news agency.
The first bilateral Peace Mission maneuvers -- described at the time as counter-terrorism exercises -- were held in Russia and the eastern Chinese province of Shandong in August 2005. As we reported at that time, they were a lot bigger than mere counter-terrorism exercises. Warships, squadrons of combat aircraft and more than 10,000 troops were involved carrying out landings against hypothetically hostile shores. The maneuvers also involved large-scale paratroops drops. The scale and nature of those exercises suggested a trial run for a possible Chinese invasion of Taiwan with Russian support. ..."
Russia, China flex muscles in joint war games
August 17, 2007
CHEBARKUL, Russia (Reuters) - Russia and China staged their biggest joint exercises on Friday but denied this show of military prowess could lead to the formation of a counterweight to NATO.
"Today's exercises are another step towards strengthening the relations between our countries, a step towards strengthening international peace and security, and first and foremost, the security of our peoples," Putin said.
Fighter jets swooped overhead, commandos jumped from helicopters on to rooftops and the boom of artillery shells shook the firing range in Russia's Ural mountains as two of the largest armies in the world were put through their paces.
The exercises take place against a backdrop of mounting rivalry between the West, and Russia and China for influence over Central Asia, a strategic region that has huge oil, gas and mineral resources.
Russia's growing assertiveness is also causing jitters in the West. Putin announced at the firing range that Russia was resuming Soviet-era sorties by its strategic bomber aircraft near NATO airspace.
War Games: Russia, China Grow Alliance
September 23, 2005
In foreign policy its critical to know thine enemy. So American policymakers should be aware that Russia and China are inching closer to identifying a common enemy the United States.
The two would-be superpowers held unprecedented joint military exercises Aug. 18-25. Soothingly named Peace Mission 2005, the drills took place on the Shandong peninsula on the Yellow Sea, and included nearly 10,000 troops. Russian long-range bombers, the army, navy, air force, marine, airborne and logistics units from both countries were also involved.
Moscow and Beijing claim the maneuvers were aimed at combating terrorism, extremism and separatism (the last a veiled reference to Taiwan), but its clear they were an attempt to counter-balance American military might.
Joint war games are a logical outcome of the Sino-Russian Friendship and Cooperation Treaty signed in 2001, and reflect the shared worldview and growing economic ties between the two Eastern Hemisphere giants."
Russian nuclear bombers in Cuba?
July 23, 2008
The media has been abuzz today at the prospect of Russian nuclear bombers being stationed in Cuba if the US goes ahead with plans for missile defense bases in Eastern Europe.
The story has riled the US enough that a US general has been wheeled out to tell the worlds press that any Russian attempt to build another nuclear base in Cuba would cross US red line.
The story broke earlier this week, when Russian newspaper Izvestia quoted an un-named source from within the Russian military. He told the Russian daily:
While they are deploying the missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic, our strategic bombers will already be landing in Cuba.
The quote hasnt been independently confirmed, but the Russian Defense Ministry added fuel to the fire when they refused to comment on the story.
The prospect of Russian nuclear forces being stationed in Cuba - which is, after all, only 90 miles from the US coast - would bring back some rather unpleasant memories for the US of the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, where the Soviet Union under Nikita Kruschev launched an audacious and foolhardy bid to station nuclear missiles on the Caribbean island.
Venezuela Set to Develop Nuclear Power With Russia
September 29, 2008
CARACAS, Venezuela President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that Russia will help Venezuela develop nuclear energy a move likely to raise U.S. concerns over increasingly close cooperation between Caracas and Moscow.
Venezuela's Chavez welcomes Russian warships
Nov 25, 2008
LA GUAIRA, Venezuela Russian warships arrived off Venezuela's coast Tuesday in a show of strength aimed at the United States as Moscow seeks to expand its influence in Latin America. The deployment is the first of its kind in the Caribbean since the Cold War and was timed to coincide with President Dmitry Medvedev's visit to Caracas the first ever by a Russian president.
More Yahoo search results for Russia and Venezuela connections:
From National Public Radio (NPR):
August 29, 2006
"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has been visiting countries such as China, Iran and Russia as part of an effort to build a 'strategic alliance' of interests not beholden to the United States. He considers the United States his arch enemy.":
From the Sino-Russian Joint Statement of April 23, 1997:
"The two sides [China and Russia] shall, in the spirit of partnership, strive to promote the multipolarization of the world and the establishment of a new international order."
From the Russian News and Information Agency:
July 27, 2006
"'I am determined to expand relations with Russia,' Chavez, known as an outspoken critic of what he calls the United States' unilateralism, told the Russian leader, adding that his determination stemmed from their shared vision of the global order.":
I don’t believe in Geo-Political coincidences. Didn’t Netanyahu have a “secret meeting” with Russia last week?
My two cents. President Obama has taken this step to repay Russia for 1 of/or 2 reasons:
1. Russia has agreed not to help Iran if Israel attacks.
2. We are afraid that Israel might become a Russian ally due to President Obama’s obvious disdain for Israel and this is the chip Russia demanded to keep Israel at arms length.
Wow! What did your teach say?
Barack got a case of Vodka for selling out Poland. he immediately called MA Speaker Bob DeLeo and told him he’d send a couple of bottles if they get a Kennedy in the Senate.
I can’t believe I just read that.
So 0bama ensured campaign money from these companies while he rendered our national security as weak?
We have no jobs. People are suffering in Ca. because of fish bait and the environ whackos shutting off their water and 0bama makes business deals in the name of national security?
Russia's Medvedev hails "comrade" Obama
Associated Foreign Press (AFP) ^ | April 2, 2009 | Anna Smolchenko
"Russia's Dmitry Medvedev hailed Barack Obama as "my new comrade" Thursday after their first face-to-face talks"
April 1, 2009:
"Obama, Medvedev pledge new era of relations":
Obama, Chavez shake hands at Americas Summit:
I want to know why I am seeing headlines that say “Obama Strengthens General Electric-Putin Ties.”
Somehow, this must have something to do with the missile defense system as well.
Our support of the taliban in Afghanistan against the Russians was a total disaster for which we are still paying. What makes you think further conflict with the Russians is a sure winner?
He owns it. He owns what Iran does. He owns what Russia does. He owns what happens with Poland and the Czech Republic. There will be blood shed, and he will own that, too.
I am glad someone has remembered and documented what this is all about. The only remaining question is, did we sell Poland and the Czech Republic down the river from inexperience and naivetivity, or for even more sinister reasons?
Front Page of Drudge indicates that carl levin IS WRONG in the quote below. Can I quote Obama here..
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAFF5RbfUd4 - video of the Jackass comment)
“The decision announced Thursday morning followed late-night phone calls to Czech and Polish officials, and at least one senior Democrat Armed Services Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) said those countries had no problem with the decision.”
We don’t know what we are getting, but the Poles know what they are getting. The shaft. Drudge shows the Polish newspaper Fakt with the headline “Zdrada!” “Betrayal!
“A stab in the back” the newspaper adds. This references the day, September 17, that Obama chose to make his move, the 70th anniversary of an earlier stab in the back when Poland, reeling from the Nazi invasion from the west, was stabbed in the back by the Russian attack from the east.
Another Polish newspaper, Gazeta Wyborcza, reports that their Prime Minister Donald Tusk refused to take Obama’s phone call. The Czech Prime Minister said that the USA cannot be considered a “safe” ally.
That was my first thought when I heard the news about trashing the missile defense.
He paused for a moment, and said "It seems like they don't have to push anymore...the rock is rolling down the hill all by itself."
In other words, even a high schooler sees the momentum running in favor of the folks selling us out.
In other words, is Obama stupid or evil? I say, BOTH!
Obama is weak. Any other POTUS but Carter would have not called Russia’s bluff.
Obama did and ran scared because he does not want anymore nuke build up.
Besides... 0bama appointed himself chairman of the U.N. so we will all sing kumbaya when the dollar is rendered -useless soon- and 0bama will have some cool new word for NWO/globalization.
We will all live in peace on earth and fly unicorns through our woods all day.
Posted on Sunday, July 05, 2009 12:51:21 PM ET by ETL:
Don't you people understand that the longtime goal of the commie left is to destroy the United States? Please see the link I last posted regarding the commie left and "total nuclear disarmament".
I wonder if the Russians got their hands on the Kenyan birth certificate.
Hussein is like most of the derelicts that are inhabiting the administration currently. He understands that if he does this stuff in daylight with some sort of notice that people will preempt him and the hue and cry would be prohibitive. I wouldn’t take a call from a Clinton at night if my house was on fire. It has to do with principals - if we allow them to speak for us - they will continue to do that and say what they desire. Remember the way to handle these kind of people is to denigrate them at every opportunity because they only are important when people think they are. Ridicule their names at ever opportunity - point out their issues - personally I think the worst insult you can to make to one of them is that they have no integrity. But, I guess lack of integrity is a plus in the Democrat party.
“You’re never beaten until you admit it.” - General George S. Patton, Jr
I am sorry 0bama has sold you out,
he has done the same to us.
They're now working together to achieve that same goal.
wow, that article left me speechless.
Crack being the operative word there.
Almost 50 years to free Eastern Europe through the Cold War, and 4 years to give it back?
It's clear that democrats are racist and can't accept that a black man is president.
I've seen this kind of behavior before and frankly it scares me. *tear*
Number 1 in your post is one of the scenarios Savage laid out yesterday. He went into the history of Persia and Russia and how it’s been rocky over the centuries. If this is the reasoning I can’t say I disagree and it may be the best international move made by this administration. I cannot see how a nuclear Iran would be in the interest of Russia.
He got scared when Russiaa played war games with China off our coast and threatened a nuke build up in Cuba and asked for ONE MILLION DOLLARS
<-------INSERT Putin's picture here
PLUS: 0bama got atleast two sweet business deals with his crony campaign donators.
Mostly the last one (aiding the Russians in their goal of bringing back the Soviet Union).
Not sure I know who Savage is. Please enlighten me.
less than 4 years.