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Metro Delivers Hundreds of Thousands to 9/12 Rally
The Foundry, Heritage Foundation ^ | September 15, 2009

Posted on 09/20/2009 6:10:19 AM PDT by gusopol3

Metro Delivers Hundreds of Thousands to 9/12 Rally Posted September 15th, 2009 at 4.58pm in Ongoing Priorities.

Much has been made over the attendance at the march and rally in DC on September 12. Reports varied, with many on the left clinging to an unofficial DC Fire Department estimate of 60,000 to 70,000. Some reports from overseas went as far as to say two million. However, one completely objective source of information is the number of people who rode Metro, Washington, DC’s mass transit subway system. Washington Metro measures and releases its ridership numbers and these numbers have been used in the past to judge the size of major events in Washington, DC.

For a fair comparison, we looked at the Saturday after Labor Day in 2008, which is when September 12 fell in 2009. On September 12, 2009, 437,624 rode metro rail. By comparison, on the Saturday after Labor Day in 2008, 202,528 rode. The difference is 235,096. Even if nobody else came to the March, and we know they did by chartered bus and by carpool, the theory that only 70,000 people were there is off by roughly 335% - debunking the 70,000 claim. To take it a step further for comparison, we also looked at the attendance for President Obama’s Inauguration in January 2009. Convential wisdom estimates that attendance for the inaugural was between 800,000 and 1.8 million, or an average of 1.3 million. If you compare Metro riders on Martin Luther King Day 2008, the similarly situated federal holiday in January to the Inauguration in 2009, approximately 975,000 additional people rode metro for the Inauguration. If you compare 975,000 additional metro riders as a percentage of the 1.3 million total who attended and you do the same for 235,000 additional metro riders for the 9/12 March, than at least 313,000 went downtown for the explicit purpose of marching against out-of-control government spending on September 12. This assumes a similar percentage of attendees took buses, cabs, drove in, walked, etc.

If you believe the number was 1.8 million at the Inauguration and you do the same for 9/12, then the number is 433,000. So is an estimate of 313,000 to 433,000 attendees accurate? Well, it is certainly an unbiased and impartial start to understanding the debate over crowd size. The bottom line is that hundreds of thousands of Americans who were upset with government spending, a failed stimulus, a government takeover of health care, and a massive energy tax came with their parents, children, grandparents, cousins, college roommates, etc. to a multi-generational and peaceful family protest in Washington.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: 912; 912rally; aar; dcmetro; marchondc; metro; rally; ridership; teaparty
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I had been waiting for this since posters last weekend had suggested to key on it; I suppose it has been previously posted , but doesn't turn up on Search under keyword "metro" or by title. Sorry if it's a double post, but I know a lot of us were interested.
1 posted on 09/20/2009 6:10:20 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3

obama and his merry band of thugs and thieves cannot afford to have this information in the msm. It would debunk their lies to the American people that 9/12 was made up of fringe terrorists. God forbid that the truth should make it out there! But then, he is just following alinsky rule that says to “isolate”. If he can make people feel they might be alone in their belief that he is trying to destroy the US, it will be that many less “feet on the ground” that won’t be trying to stop him.


2 posted on 09/20/2009 6:17:42 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: gusopol3

Great post! Thanks!


3 posted on 09/20/2009 6:18:40 AM PDT by albie
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To: freeangel

Low-ball estimate still being repeated by BOR, Chris Wallace as late as Friday 9/18.


4 posted on 09/20/2009 6:20:16 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3
I know there were at least a million marchers last Saturday. Our group was by the pool, right in front of the National Botanical Garden. Around one o'clock or so, a guy came around announcing the our crowd reached 1.4 million. We all yelled and clapped.

From my vantage point, I watched in amazement as marchers streamed in to the area for hours!!!

5 posted on 09/20/2009 6:24:48 AM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (Markets and Marxists Don't Mix! Audit the FED NOW!)
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To: gusopol3

I took the Metro at Ballston station. The platforms were packed with demonsrators headed to the March. When the train pulled into the station, it was packed with protestors, who cheered the people on the platform, when the doors opened. This was repeated at every station all the way to Metro Center. Only a few people got off. The Metro was really part of the demonstration.


6 posted on 09/20/2009 6:25:46 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: gusopol3

Great find. I had to laugh when I heard the lowball numbers for the rally. The metro had people packed in like sardene’s, I’ve got a picture I took when leaving. Never could get in a train. We finally made our way back out of the station and hailed a cab. A 10 minute, 11 dollar ride later we were back at the hotel.


7 posted on 09/20/2009 6:25:51 AM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: gusopol3

ping metro ridership 912


8 posted on 09/20/2009 6:25:52 AM PDT by TNoldman (Conservative Values FOREVER!)
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To: gusopol3

Great idea, but a word of caution: This assumes the metro folks were telling the truth about ridership numbers...


9 posted on 09/20/2009 6:27:04 AM PDT by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: gusopol3
I suspect that the majority of those who attended the inauguration were residents of Washington D.C. and its environs.

I don't think that would be true of the March.

This, of course, means that the Metro use for the Inauguration would be much higher than that for the March.

10 posted on 09/20/2009 6:27:58 AM PDT by Tribune7 (I am Joe Wilson!)
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To: gusopol3
A note: Having never used a subway (I'm from Omaha)I asked a metro worker to help me purchase the farecard. She told me that to exit the station one had to have a farecard with enough money on it. And even though one uses the farecard to enter the platform, the money isn't deducted until exiting. I would bet that is when the rider count is taken.

On 9/12 I rode the blue line to Federal Triangle, arriving about 9:15 am. There were so many in the station that the metro police/workers opened the turnstyles to get us out as quickly as possible so other trains could come in. We didn't use our farecards, so I'm betting we weren't counted.

11 posted on 09/20/2009 6:28:49 AM PDT by Vor Lady ("Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." JFK)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

For the 60-70 k estimate to be true, the crowd on 9/12 would have to look the same as any other day on the mall. I had posted a travel article earlier this week stating the fact that the DC mall is one of the most visited sites in the country, at 24 m/ yr. Divide that by 365, = 65,000 per day. Incredible gall and duplicity on the media’s behalf to claim that, and gullibility for anyone that believes that.


12 posted on 09/20/2009 6:30:50 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3; GRRRRR
Washington Metro measures and releases its ridership numbers and these numbers have been used in the past to judge the size of major events in Washington, DC.

And that's only part of the story. I was one of many riders who jammed the Metro system on 9/12. When our train arrived at the Federal Plaza station (the nearest to the step off for ther march) the platform was still half full of riders from the previous train. Before we could make it up the escaltor yet another packed train was arriving. The big hold up was everyone having to scan their fare cards to get thru the exit turnstyles.

Finally, Metro employees opened the gates and let us stream through without scanning cards and without clicking the turnstyles. Thousands got through uncounted by Metro at just that one station alone.

13 posted on 09/20/2009 6:34:01 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: Tribune7
Dont' forget all the busses that drove into to DC. We passed many on the highway, or I should say many passed our little Party bus, chugging along at 45 mph...LOL.

We had no trouble, we drove in with no trouble and then the bus driver let us out by the Dept. of Education, Lyndon Baines Johnson building, as we all choked. :0)

14 posted on 09/20/2009 6:35:10 AM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (Markets and Marxists Don't Mix! Audit the FED NOW!)
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To: gusopol3; GRRRRR
Washington Metro measures and releases its ridership numbers and these numbers have been used in the past to judge the size of major events in Washington, DC.

And that's only part of the story. I was one of many riders who jammed the Metro system on 9/12. When our train arrived at the Federal Plaza station (the nearest to the step off for ther march) the platform was still half full of riders from the previous train. Before we could make it up the escaltor yet another packed train was arriving. The big hold up was everyone having to scan their fare cards to get thru the exit turnstyles.

Finally, Metro employees opened the gates and let us stream through without scanning cards and without clicking the turnstyles. Thousands got through uncounted by Metro at just that one station alone.

15 posted on 09/20/2009 6:35:19 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: TheRightGuy

How does it feel to be a non-person?


16 posted on 09/20/2009 6:35:58 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: TheRightGuy

oopps ... credit self with flying fickle finger of fate award ... got an itchy clicker finger


17 posted on 09/20/2009 6:37:34 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: gusopol3
Quite a good analysis but I suspect it overlooks an important factor: the number Metro trains available on Inauguration Day vs. the number available for the 912 Rally.

Now maybe they were the same but I doubt it. If the Metro was maxed out on Saturday 912 and there were less trains running than on Inauguration Day then the analysis will certainly underestimate the 912 crowd. OTOH, it does provide a good lower limit estimate. I think until we know if there were additional trains available on Inauguration Day and that the Metro was maxed out on Saturday 912 we really won't know if my objection is important or not. Hopefully someone can dig up that data.

18 posted on 09/20/2009 6:37:50 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: gusopol3

Interesting! Good info! The lame stream media should be drawn and quartered if you ask me. What the are doing to the American people is criminal.


19 posted on 09/20/2009 6:38:19 AM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (Markets and Marxists Don't Mix! Audit the FED NOW!)
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To: gusopol3
How does it feel to be a non-person?

sometimes, pretty good, actually
< /evil grin>

20 posted on 09/20/2009 6:44:06 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: InterceptPoint

No question they had made extraordinary preparation for inauguration crowd control and facilitation of large numbers of attendees.


21 posted on 09/20/2009 6:45:40 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3

where is the source for this alleged fire department estimate. it sounds more like an internet rumor


22 posted on 09/20/2009 6:45:51 AM PDT by Always Right (Obama owes Joe Willson an apology!!!)
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To: gusopol3

You should send a copy to O’Reilly. I heard him say “70,000” again to correct Chris Wallace.


23 posted on 09/20/2009 6:45:59 AM PDT by Big_Harry ( Thank God I am an "Infidel"!)
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To: gusopol3
The difference is 235,096

Ok, remember that Metro is capturing the total number of rides here. So if that number is representative of people who took Metro to and from the rally, it needs to be cut in half to 117,548.

It also includes the full day's worth of rides. So of those who took Metro, how many stopped off somewhere either coming to or going from the rally? For example, if my family of four came in for the rally (which we didn't) using Metro, and stopped at the Court House Metro in Arlington to grab dinner at Ireland's Four Courts on the way back out, we'd account for 12 (not 4) of the 235,096 rides cited above.

I'd say that number is, as close to fairly as possible (the trending only looks at one prior year, 2008, rather than say the last 5-10 years ... 9/12 this year was a nice day, which will draw more people down to the Mall anyways. I don't remember what 9/12/2008 was like, but if it was rainy and cold the numbers for that date could be depressed), indicative of about 100,000 rally attendees who took Metro. Then add on busses, etc from there to increase the number of participants ...
24 posted on 09/20/2009 6:47:12 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: TheRightGuy

We were there also and the turnstyles were open when our massive group went through also. Can someone explain how an accurate count could be obtained with those open and no count able to be done. It would seem the great aerial phots would belie the low numbers!


25 posted on 09/20/2009 6:49:45 AM PDT by nclaurel
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To: Vor Lady

Most excellent point.


26 posted on 09/20/2009 6:50:03 AM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: alice_in_bubbaland
From my vantage point, I watched in amazement as marchers streamed in to the area for hours!!!

I, too, was near the National Botanical Garden (site of the only non-porta potty), and left the rally just before 2:00pm. I walked to the Capitol South Metro station and, lo and behold, people were still arriving!

27 posted on 09/20/2009 6:51:51 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: TheRightGuy

We waited for 45 minutes to use the restroom in the botanical Garden Bldg.! Oh well we took the time to admire the flora of our surroundings.


28 posted on 09/20/2009 6:55:50 AM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (Markets and Marxists Don't Mix! Audit the FED NOW!)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland
We waited for 45 minutes to use the restroom in the botanical Garden Bldg.!

The men's line moved much quicker. I heard numerous reports that women were deperately gate crashing into the men's room.

29 posted on 09/20/2009 6:59:17 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: gusopol3

It’s, it’s, it’s like the miracle of the loaves and fishes. The completely objective, truth-dedicated MSM told us there were only 70,000 and yet so many rode the Metro. I guess each person there rode back and forth maybe 6 times and those that drove their cars, like the woman we met up with who had been raised in Northeast, and parked in her old neighborhood, must have ridden back and forth on Metro many timse when we weren’t with her and done so for no reason at all.


30 posted on 09/20/2009 7:01:45 AM PDT by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them or they more like we used to be?)
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To: TheRightGuy

We let the pregnant woman go to the front of the line. Yep some brave woman used the mensroom. Not me... I waited patiently, talking to a group from St. Louis. Great bunch of folks!


31 posted on 09/20/2009 7:03:03 AM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (Markets and Marxists Don't Mix! Audit the FED NOW!)
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To: gusopol3

This is direct, clear evidence that the press is lying to us. They were not merely ignoring the evidence but patently lying to our faces when they said “60,000 to 70,000” or the more generic “tens of thousands.”

But this story is “old news” now so they don’t need to mention anything further about it. Take comfort in the fact that we know how the history books will record the 9/12 protest, despite their nefarious efforts.

The upside, however, is that over a million people came to Washington, D.C., in an unorganized protest WITHOUT the media telling us about it! We did this on our own!

Same with the ACORN videos and Van Jones and (someday) the birth certificate thing. And if Glenn Beck really is the “targeting director” for this grassroots force, then the Apollo Alliance will be next down the chute.

Take heart in the fact that the alternative media works. Word does get out, so long as we’re allowed to keep our Internet access.


32 posted on 09/20/2009 7:03:12 AM PDT by DNME (All your rights end when the next "national emergency" begins!)
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To: AmericanVictory

Fox’s main drawback relative to CNN is lack of boots on the ground in terms of # of reporters; nonetheless, you’d think they could come up with some credible independent reporting on this rather than parroting ridiculous low ball estimates , even as late as 9/18 on BOR, namely after this article and metro #s are public knowledge.


33 posted on 09/20/2009 7:05:33 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: alice_in_bubbaland
They are also completely ignoring the TP participants that staged local protests all over the country. The total number of people out in the streets that day was in the millions, easy. Why don’t they ever tell the truth?
34 posted on 09/20/2009 7:10:07 AM PDT by ishabibble (ALL-AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: gusopol3
FNC was there! Photobucket
35 posted on 09/20/2009 7:10:34 AM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (Markets and Marxists Don't Mix! Audit the FED NOW!)
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To: gusopol3

Somebody tell Charles at Little Green Footballs. He seems to think that only a handful showed up on 9-12 and keeps beating the drum. I thought at one time LGF leaned to the right but it has really taken a left turn. Guess that explains why I was banned.


36 posted on 09/20/2009 7:11:27 AM PDT by engrpat (A village in Kenya is missing their idiot...lets send him back)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

Maybe they didn’t know where the rally was???


37 posted on 09/20/2009 7:11:28 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3
It was a great crowd, the feeling I got being there was overwhelming. God Bless them all. PRay for our county.
38 posted on 09/20/2009 7:15:19 AM PDT by sweetiepiezer (I have a Pal in Sarah)
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To: gusopol3

Note this comment from the linked Heritage article:

Kenneth Happel, Vista, CA writes:

I was the medical coordinator for the event. I believe that there were at least a million people there and a million and a half would be my best bet.
.
I don’t know where the “official estimate” quoted as 60,000 comes from. The event permit, and Chief Lyles fire department resource allocation, was based upon 50,000 (because we couldn’t prove more beforehand)and that number of people was supposed to be contained in the central section of the west lawn between the sidewalks extending from the freedom and grant statues.
.
I counted the crowd entering Penn. Ave. to determine how many first aid team people were needed and where. I made my count at Freedom Plaza after the police radio had indicated that the front of the march had reached Capital Circle. I used the following method. We counted the number of people stretching across Penn. Ave. from curb to curb for a distance down the street of ten feet. That number was divided in half (assuming that there were variations in how tightly people were packed)and multiplied by the number of ten foot intervals from Freedom Park to Capitol Circle. At 8:00 the count was 200,000. I inserted a medical team at that point and when it reached Capitol Circle the whole avenue had filled again and I inserted my team. So at about 9:30 the total attendance from the march was, conservatively, about 400,000. The avenue continued to pumo in people fopr another two hours. So I estimate about 600,000 came through that route.
.
There was also a very large stream that filled the whole street from the train station to Capitol circle and people that came on the underground said that it was simply packed with people coming out at the protest site (both these flows were not part of the march).
.
The National Park Service published its estimating method in USA Today, when they provided an estimate for President Obama’s inaguration. That method estimates by filled area.
The west lawn (all three sections were filled solid with little space between people)the shoulders around the building and the area directly around the reflecting pool is 240,000 by the NPS estimating method. The mall from the reflecting pool to the cross street before the Washington Monument is 940,000 according to the NPS. The first section of the mall nearest the Washingon Monument was reserved for the NAACP’s Family event. Our folks, at the height of the event, stretched from the cross street before the NAACP event all the way to the relfecting pool and were packed. I would guess that its 4/5 of the 940,000 or 750,000 people together that’s a million. Then there was the area from first street to third street (third street goes to the train station). First street was so crowded the police had to clear it. The crowd also filled most of the area around and between the museums on each side, with the greatest density in the half of the mall nearest the reflecting pool. You could easily add another half million with these two areas.
.
That’s how I came to an estimate of one to one and a half million.
Under no possible stretch of the imagination or should I say contraction of the imagination were there only 60,000. To see crowd outline on the National Park Service estimator go to my facebook page “kenneth happel” and look at the photos.


39 posted on 09/20/2009 7:24:35 AM PDT by luckybogey
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To: gusopol3

I have a liberal friend who is ranting about Fox News alleged fabrication and subsuquent ad saying the MSM wasn’t there and didn’t cover the 9-12 protests. And how CNN was there with coverage bla blah blah.
Coverage is one thing. But fair coverage of the facts, and the real reasons behind the march overrides just what lieberals call coverage.


40 posted on 09/20/2009 7:28:19 AM PDT by o_zarkman44
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To: gusopol3

Thanks for posting this. I used to live in DC and was at Reagan’s inauguration. That crowd was about a third of what I saw from cameras and still pics of 9/12.

Anyone know the crowd count for Reagan?


41 posted on 09/20/2009 7:29:45 AM PDT by doodad
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To: luckybogey

As a previous poster noted, some were still arriving at 2 PM as he was leaving; I’m sure the preponderance of inaugural attendees are there by noon sharp and in one place on the ther hand.


42 posted on 09/20/2009 7:33:51 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: mewzilla
Great idea, but a word of caution: This assumes the metro folks were telling the truth about ridership numbers...

I'm not certain they could even be accurate if they tried. At 10:30 am the metro was so over crowded that they shut off the turnstiles and just let us through. How do you count people that way??

It seems to me that an accurate count could possibly be several times greater.

As I pointed out before, they don't do that on July 4th when a million people come to downtown DC. Logic and common sense says our numbers had to be nearly off the charts.

Finally, and more importantly, the lefties can and will say anything they please in public to downplay our march. But I GUARANTEE you, in private they were and are stunned. Their actions and words after the march prove that.

Everyone here better get out on 10/17 for Operation "Can You Hear Us Now?" Hit them hard while they are reeling.

http://www.operationcanyouhearusnow.com/

43 posted on 09/20/2009 8:12:45 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: gusopol3

I agree there was way more than 60-70,000. Even about 500,000 seems a bit low for the size of the crowd, when you compare pictures of the inauguration and the pictures from 9/12. They look to be at least, close to the same amount of people.


44 posted on 09/20/2009 8:58:02 AM PDT by MsLady (If you died tonight, where would you go? Salvation, don't leave earth without it!)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
But I GUARANTEE you, in private they were and are stunned. Their actions and words after the march prove that.

Thread-winning money quote right here, folks.

They were looking out the windows of the Capitol and the office buildings next door, and quaking in their shoes.

-ccm

45 posted on 09/20/2009 9:18:23 AM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: gusopol3

Paging “75,000” Bill O’Reilly!!!


46 posted on 09/20/2009 9:26:32 AM PDT by VOA
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To: gusopol3
Here is a good write - up on the march including crowd estimates...

March On Washington
47 posted on 09/20/2009 9:38:17 AM PDT by orinoco
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To: gusopol3

Also, for the inugeration, they closed the bridges to traffic, so people had to use metro.


48 posted on 09/20/2009 10:20:09 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: gusopol3

All I know is that the Metro between Pentagon City and Federal Triangle was quite crowded on Sat. Morning, around 10 am. Both the Blue line and the Yellow line were carrying folks in, and it was standing room only in the cars on both lines from what I saw.


49 posted on 09/20/2009 11:05:39 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ
All I know is that the Metro between Pentagon City and Federal Triangle was quite crowded on Sat. Morning, around 10 am. Both the Blue line and the Yellow line were carrying folks in, and it was standing room only in the cars on both lines from what I saw.

We came through that way around 08:30 or so, and the Blue line was already pretty crowded. Not packed like it was on the return trip, but many people standing already.

On the return, and we left the rally just a little early, we had to wait for the second train. They were PACKED! We got off at Crystal City. They hadn't opened up the turnstyles at that time, but there were plenty of "officials" there.

I'm certain that the metro wasn't prepared for the huge crowds. They probably ran their usual weekend schedule, perhaps adding a few cars after they saw the buildup of passengers that morning.

50 posted on 09/20/2009 11:36:51 AM PDT by meyer (Do not go gentle into that good night - Rage, rage against the dying of the light.)
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