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Rich, Black, Flunking (dated, but timely)
East Bay Express ^ | May 21, 2003 | Susan Goldsmith

Posted on 09/21/2009 8:47:15 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum

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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I hold that this bad news is a result of educational policies that I summarize as “Juneteenthlsm” — the encouragement of making one’s freedoms, one’s status and one’s wealth to be the due of others who owe it to you.


21 posted on 09/21/2009 9:08:44 AM PDT by bvw
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To: silverleaf
“Ambition has historically been looked down on in Catholic cultures “ NOT the Irish, Polish and Italian ones!

I grew up Catholic - ambition was encouraged, even demanded, but never looked down upon!

22 posted on 09/21/2009 9:10:00 AM PDT by knittnmom ("...only dead fish 'go with the flow'". - Sarah Palin 7/09)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
If the parents would put one-tenth the effort into solving the problem that they do in discrediting anyone who points it out they would be much better off in no time at all.
23 posted on 09/21/2009 9:10:40 AM PDT by jwparkerjr (God Bless America, and wake us up while you're about it!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
African-American parents worried that Ogbu's work would further reinforce the stereotype that blacks are intellectually inadequate and lazy.

"Blacks" per say, aren't intellectually inadequate or lazy, but the rap/hip-hop culture and it's previous incarnations all discourage academic achievement.

"Education is a very high value in the African-American community and in the African community."

How anyone with even passing familiarity with the "African-American community" or, in particular, Africa could even suggest this is appalling.

24 posted on 09/21/2009 9:14:48 AM PDT by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Here is my theory on race. People are like cars, they come in many colors but essentally have the same potential. disparities in performance come from how the cars are treated. For example, lets say that 95% of the people own red cars never do any maintenence on them. The oil is full of sludge, the spark plugs are bad, and they fill the engine with cheap watered down gas. In a race against cars of other colors that are well maintained, the red cars will lose every time. People then start to think the red cars are junk, and start giving them head starts in races, but they still lose. Telling owners of the red cars that they need to take batter care of them makes them angry. They think the problem is not with their cars, but with the shape of the race track or with the judges.


25 posted on 09/21/2009 9:14:50 AM PDT by Hacklehead (Liberalism is the art of taking what works, breaking it, and then blaming conservatives.)
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To: silverleaf
Actually, ambition WAS looked down on in all three of the cultures you mentioned for centuries. Read "Angela's Ashes" sometime for a good depiction of an Irish kid trying to break out of the circle of "humility", ultimately emigrating to the US.

Even in the first two generations of residency in the states, many Catholic-Americans embraced the humble concept of Church/Neighborhood/Work and not "rising above" the way that Jews and protestants did. It took assimilation into the larger American culture and out of the Catholic Ghetto/urban peasant mentality for upward mobility to take place.

As far as the Catholic world outside the US is concerned, places like Ireland did a cultural about face starting in the 1970s/80s, to say nothing of France earlier under the Orleanists (mid 19th century) and Italy (outside of the south, where the urban peasant attitude continues in places like Naples and Palermo, encouraged by the welfare state) under De Gasperi's reforms of the 1950s.

Cultures (and religions of course) are NOT static, which is why even places like Brazil are seeing a scrapping of the old "ambition as Pride" mentality in both the populace AND the Church (thank you Josemaria Escriva and Opus Dei!). Nevertheless, to deny that such an attitude existed among the Irish, Polish, Italians, Portuguese, and French Canadians, both at home and in the diaspora, would be ahistorical.

--- Clemenza, Descendant of the ambitious ones. :)

26 posted on 09/21/2009 9:16:24 AM PDT by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
his conclusions made some people quite uncomfortable.

Generally, one should expect to catch flak when one is on-target.

parents worried that Ogbu's work would further reinforce the stereotype that blacks are THEY WERE intellectually inadequate and lazy. .....there, fixed it.

School district officials, meanwhile, were concerned that it would look as if they were blaming black parents and students for their own academic failures.

Well, who else would be responsible? When I completely screw up something, I don't blame the guy down the street.

If this group ever decides to stop finger-pointing and address the real issue - that is, children and their parents are ultimately responsible for their educations - they might get somewhere. Otherwise, it'll be the same old same old with a victim mentality.

27 posted on 09/21/2009 9:19:14 AM PDT by wbill
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Here's a recent book which examines most the same issues, has more in depth stats and comes in many respects to the same conclusions.
28 posted on 09/21/2009 9:20:49 AM PDT by garbanzo (Government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Everything I ever needed to know about the relationship of black academic performance and black culture I learned from Bill Cosby.

This Professor John Ogbu is absolutely right, no matter how hard the professional malcontents try to undermine him.

29 posted on 09/21/2009 9:21:18 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (God is great, beer is good . . . and people are crazy.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
[Fordham] believes school pressure to speak Standard English and "act white" is the very thing that makes black students fail... Black kids couldn't just be who they were."

So even black academics buy into the notion that excelling in academics and speaking proper english are "acting white".

If thats your assumption you've lost the game before it began.

I have a nephew who was half-latin, and had fallen in with the little gang-bangers at school in an effort to be authentically latin. He dressed the dress and talked the dialect. Then I invited him to South America when I was working there, and he saw a real latin society, with successful happy people, moral people, all kinds of people, and he was never the same again. He never again tried to emulate the little gangbangers, and he's grown into a bright, moral, successful college student at this point.

There is such a thing as poverty culture. A lot of people have moved through it, up and out. But when you begin to associate poverty culture as being somehow "authentic" and anything else as somehow a betrayal of your authentic self, you are truely and royally trapped.

30 posted on 09/21/2009 9:22:09 AM PDT by marron
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To: MarineBrat

Exactly.


31 posted on 09/21/2009 9:22:22 AM PDT by kalee (01/20/13 The end of an error.... Obama even worse than Carter.)
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To: Clemenza

That is real similar to the dynamics of Envy in the small tribal situations.


32 posted on 09/21/2009 9:24:10 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

ping for later reading


33 posted on 09/21/2009 9:29:05 AM PDT by Tirian
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: eclecticEel
I would respsect this research more if he had administered IQ tests to everyone involved. As it stands we are left without vital information: are the black kids as ABLE to excel as the white kids. Without that we are left with a typically stunted analysis that comes down 100% on the "nurture" side of the debate. I suspectd "nature" has at least some part in this.

The "acting white" cultural norm is in part a defense. Which is more hummiliating: to work your ass off in a suburban school to get C's, or to claim trying to succeed is "acting white", cop an attitude and get D's.

Of course we can't talk about this. "That's racist!".

35 posted on 09/21/2009 9:35:25 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
At first I was going to comment on the salient quotes/findings in this article but there were so many valid ones I would have just copied the vast majority of the article.

Suffice it to say that the concept of 'victimhood', victimhood' resonated in my mind. AND the lack of parental involvement in their children's education. Bill Cosby has stated the conclusions, set forth in this article, many times in the last few years (though he is going 'wobbly' now).

The quote by the mother, states it succinctly

"We come from this point of view of slavery and victimhood and every problem is due to racist white people," she says. "That victim mentality is perpetrated by parents and they're doing their kids a disservice. ... My primary objective is not to hold someone accountable but to close the achievement gap." "

36 posted on 09/21/2009 9:35:48 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen ("All that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Thank you so much for posting this! I went to a Prep School in Shaker Heights in the ‘60s. The community has changed drastically since then.

“Whites, he found, say it is a racially harmonious and tolerant place. African Americans, meanwhile, describe the community as racially troubled and filled with tension between blacks and whites.”

That short quote shows exactly where the “tension” lies.


37 posted on 09/21/2009 9:36:01 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Wow...and this guy was at UC Berkeley??
38 posted on 09/21/2009 9:36:39 AM PDT by gimme1ibertee (Palin/Malkin 2012...the 'Cuda and the Asian Fox!)
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To: Alberta's Child
Most native African students that come to the United States do quite well in school. They do not suffer from the disease of "it is not cool to succeed in school because that is a white thing!" They came here to study and succeed.
39 posted on 09/21/2009 9:38:07 AM PDT by cpdiii (roughneck, oilfield trash and proud of it, geologist, pilot, pharmacist, iconoclast.)
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To: TexasCajun
The money quote: ...any one of use could have saved the skewl distict a lot of money for this study. Ogbu concluded that the average black student in Shaker Heights put little effort into schoolwork and was part of a peer culture that looked down on academic success as "acting white."

This was true in 1980's era, suburban St Louis where I grew up. But it seems that kind of thinking was mostly among the boys. It was OK to be a smart black girl. Boys were expected to be athletic.
40 posted on 09/21/2009 9:41:49 AM PDT by denfurb (proud Mama, 6 girls and 1 boy)
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