Posted on 09/23/2009 7:06:56 PM PDT by Dementio
With scant public input, state and federal officials are pushing ahead with plans that -- during a severe flu outbreak -- would deny use of scarce ventilators by some patients to assure they would be available for patients judged to benefit the most from them.
The plans have been drawn up to give doctors specific guidelines for extreme circumstances, and they include procedures under which patients who weren’t improving would be removed from life support with or without permission of their families.
The plans are designed to go into effect if the U.S. were struck by a severe flu pandemic comparable to the 1918 outbreak that killed an estimated 50 million people worldwide. State and federal health officials have concluded that such a pandemic would sicken far more people needing ventilators than could be treated by the available supplies.
(Excerpt) Read more at propublica.org ...
“C’mon Granny, just TRY to breathe on your own. You can do it!”/extreme sarcasm off
LLS
This is right up Dr. Zeke’s alley.....scarce resource???
Babies and Old People hit the skids first....
It is either a trial balloon to see how far they can push us, or an outright attack on freedom of assembly and movement.
We will see.
As harsh as this article may sound the practice makes sense. And while it has the potential for abuse, I think the possibility of poor decision making by impassioned family members is much more likely.
Babies and Old People hit the skids first....
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That’s right. They AREN’T the ‘worker bees’ in the hive for ‘the collective’.
What began under George Bush as a way to prepare serepticiously for a coming biological attack from terrorists has burgeoned into a means for the fascist Obamasquad to arrange for martial law. With men like Cass Sunstein, John Holdren, and Ezekiel Emanuel advising the affirmative action bastard, is it surprising that the solution to the social security disaster is to not have that many reaching retirement to pay out to?
I wonder what criteria were used during polio epidemics when they rationed those old "iron lung" machines. They must have had some guidelines.
I also wonder what would happen to private insurance companies if a really bad flu epidemic hit the US. Would some insurance companies just declare bankruptcy and disappear in the night, the way some insurance companies do after earthquakes or hurricanes? Or would the government pick up the tab for preventing and treating the flu since it's a communicable disease?
You have to plan for overwhelming emergencies.
There could be a situation where there are more people who need ventilators than there are machines, in any particular hospital.
What bugs me is that the government wants to make the rules. I’d prefer to leave it to the doctors—with the courts following up if they behave with clear injustice.
And please, before I get flamed by those who would equivocate the preplanning described in this article with the death panels brought about by Obamacare - there is a huge difference between withholding medical care that would have been available if the government left health care alone, and a shortage of equipment due to a pandemic.
Headlines in the newspaper "WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE......) someday..
“Flu Nightmare: In Severe Pandemic, Officials Ponder Disconnecting Ventilators From Some Patients”
In severe fascism, citizens ponder ventilating politicians and bureaucrats...
That’s right. They AREN’T the ‘worker bees’ in the hive for ‘the collective’.
That's how it works. If you have five ventilators and ten people who will die without ventilators, five people are going to die. Who deserves a ventilator? Grandma? A baby? A young adult female? A young adult male?
Ugly decisions sometimes have to be made.
How far or how fast?
Coin toss.
Well, how very OBAMA of them!
No other alternative. My guess is ECMO machines will be rationed first. Not as many of them, much more labor intensive to use and in the Southern Hemisphere, some patients were put on those almost immediately because their lungs were so full of snot mechanical ventilation would have caused their chests to explode.
Exactly. What else are they supposed to do? Jack up the cost of medical care by buying millions of extra ventilators that will probably never be needed? Obviously, in a major pandemic, lots of people are going to die, and it makes sense to prioritize saving the ones who actually have a chance of getting out bed and doing something with their lives.
Here's the problem. We have managed care, down to where there is no excess capacity in the system. New York only has enough ventilators to handle a 17% (15%/85%) increase over normal. Certainly not a pandemic.
I think the rationing plan is necessary. But the public would be better served by a plan to obtain and store excess ventilators and/or a plan to ramp production of ventilators. I see a new respiratory ventilator on Froogle for $2000.
Solution 1:Buy another 5000 machines for a cost of $10,000,000 and put them in storage. Then you would at least have a reasonable hedge.
Solution 2: For a cost of 17,000*$2,000= $34,000,000 you'd have all 18,000 machines available. It's probably not reasonable given the probable availability of vaccines.
Solution 3: Work with the manufacturer to develop plans for rapid ramping of production of the machines and/or possible cheaper stop-gap models.
The cost is probably neglible compared the lost taxes if those people die.
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