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Report: Mullen Backs Women Serving on Submarines
Fox News ^ | 24 Sept 2009 | Unattributed

Posted on 09/24/2009 11:38:30 AM PDT by Ben Mugged

Female sailors can broaden their role in the Navy by serving on submarines, an activity currently prohibited by the Armed Service, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has advised the Senate Armed Services Committee.

According to Defensetech.org, a site run by Military.com, a group boasting a membership of 10 million veterans and active duty forces, Adm. Michael Mullen told senators in a recent survey that he's long been an advocate for improving diversity in the Armed Forces.

"I believe we should continue to broaden opportunities for women. One policy I would like to see changed is the one barring their service aboard submarines," he added.

The policy change would mark a huge shift for the Navy, whose submarines have been devoid of female sailors even though women began flying fighter jets and performing other seagoing combat roles 15 years ago.

Defensetech.org reported that Mullen, a former chief of naval operations and a surface warfare officer, wrote his endorsement of women serving in subs in his response to questions submitted by senators preparing for Mullen's confirmation hearing for a second term as chairman of the JCS. That hearing was held Sept. 15.

Opponents of females serving on submarines say space is too restrictive to accommodate privacy needs for women, in particular bathrooms. Another study -- conducted in 1994 -- noted that fraternization in close quarters, among other issues, could also complicate operations at sea

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: combat; militarywomen; mullen; sailors; submarines; usnavy; women
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Women have not proven to be a liability in space. They have proven to be lethal in combat and are more likely to use nuclear weapons than a man on nuclear missile crew duty.
1 posted on 09/24/2009 11:38:31 AM PDT by Ben Mugged
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To: Ben Mugged

Well, a lot of them sure get pregnant on long deployments with carrier battle groups.


2 posted on 09/24/2009 11:40:25 AM PDT by RexBeach
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To: RexBeach
Well, a lot of them sure get pregnant on long deployments with carrier battle groups.

Where are they going to put the daycare on a sub?

3 posted on 09/24/2009 11:41:14 AM PDT by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: Ben Mugged
I am sure the requirement that crew members share a bed will improve morale
4 posted on 09/24/2009 11:41:22 AM PDT by Dan(9698)
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To: raybbr

LOL!!!


5 posted on 09/24/2009 11:42:15 AM PDT by RexBeach
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To: Dan(9698)
Female sailors can broaden their role in the Navy by serving on submarines

What a terrible opening sentence to that article ...

I have already come up with the 1st Navy/Girl Submarine joke ..

Sir, my water broke ...
6 posted on 09/24/2009 11:43:01 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: Ben Mugged

How’s that slightly-limited-space somewhat-communal-living thing gonna work?


7 posted on 09/24/2009 11:43:34 AM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Ben Mugged

One of my female friends once remarked that it might be a bad idea to have a female president if only because if a country irked her enough during a certain time of the month she might hit the red button quite a bit more quickly than a man would.


8 posted on 09/24/2009 11:44:08 AM PDT by utherdoul
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To: Dan(9698)
I am sure the requirement that crew members share a bed will improve morale

Talk about a hot bunk...

Big problem is when she gets tired of the long deployment and decides to get pregnant to get out of it.

9 posted on 09/24/2009 11:45:09 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: Ben Mugged

I want to hear from some of the submariners that post here. Somebody ping them.

It is my understanding that there is NO personal space on a sub. Restrooms, beds, showers, etc. are all shared.

Have things changed that make a submariners life more fitting to intimate space between men and women?


10 posted on 09/24/2009 11:45:41 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Government For the People - an obviously concealed oxymoron)
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mental eunuch

11 posted on 09/24/2009 11:47:43 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Ben Mugged

Up periscope.


12 posted on 09/24/2009 11:48:24 AM PDT by Enterprise (When they come for your guns and ammo, give them the ammo first.)
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To: Enterprise

LMAO!


13 posted on 09/24/2009 11:49:17 AM PDT by messierhunter
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To: bmwcyle

Ping


14 posted on 09/24/2009 11:49:28 AM PDT by theKid51
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To: Enterprise

Torpedo Polishers?


15 posted on 09/24/2009 11:49:41 AM PDT by jaydubya2
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To: Ben Mugged

Puss-N-Boots


16 posted on 09/24/2009 11:49:48 AM PDT by DonnerT (I absolutely hate racists whose primary mission in life is trying to make me a racist.)
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To: raybbr

Won’t they all have their periods at the same time?


17 posted on 09/24/2009 11:49:49 AM PDT by Maceman
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To: Snickering Hound
Big problem is when she gets tired of the long deployment and decides to get pregnant to get out of it.

That is a real slap at professional female soldiers. Yes a small few will use this tactic but so do male soldiers use the "gay" excuse. You use a small percentage to paint the entire force.

18 posted on 09/24/2009 11:49:59 AM PDT by Ben Mugged (Unions are the storm troopers of socialism.)
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To: RexBeach
Well, a lot of them sure get pregnant on long deployments with carrier battle groups.

Carriers have a lot of seamen.

19 posted on 09/24/2009 11:50:39 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys: Can't fly, can't ski, can't drive, can't skipper a boat, but they know what's best.)
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To: Ben Mugged

20 posted on 09/24/2009 11:51:01 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Talisker

I would suggest a simple university type test. Lock 90 folks into a 6,000 sq ft area for 60 days. Arrange it so 20 females and 70 males are in the environment. Make sure most are under the age of 25 years old. Arrange a joint “head” and a joint “sleeping” situation.

My guess is that 8 of the twenty women will be preg by the last week. Five of the women will be declared emotionally unfit and send to mental health. And three of the women will be declared lesbians by members of the crew.

People who favor this kind of stuff....haven’t been in cramped quarters for weeks at a time.


21 posted on 09/24/2009 11:51:05 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Ben Mugged

-PJ

22 posted on 09/24/2009 11:51:25 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (Comprehensive congressional reform legislation only yields incomprehensible bills that nobody reads.)
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To: Tenacious 1
I want to hear from the WIVES of Submariners......
23 posted on 09/24/2009 11:52:14 AM PDT by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: Snickering Hound

This thread is getting a little sexest. There are many roles in the military that women are aptly suited for and in some cases excel. An entire sub crew of women might be more appropriate and equally effective. I would support this instead.

I do not support women on subs for the following reasons:

1. Life is tough on a sub and would be even more so on a woman. It’s not fair.
2. It would be costly to modify a billion dollar weapon to appropriately accomodate both sexes.
3. Most young military men are not mature enough sexually to not allow a woman to be a distraction. They are professional enough, just not mature enough.


24 posted on 09/24/2009 11:52:40 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Government For the People - an obviously concealed oxymoron)
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To: Maceman
Won’t they all have their periods at the same time?

Now I am uncomfortable.

25 posted on 09/24/2009 11:53:35 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Government For the People - an obviously concealed oxymoron)
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To: Maceman
Won’t they all have their periods at the same time?

Yep. Better keep them away from the firing codes during that week.

26 posted on 09/24/2009 11:53:38 AM PDT by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: Robe
I want to hear from the WIVES of Submariners......

Good point, honestly, my opinion is women don't belong in the military at all.
27 posted on 09/24/2009 11:53:53 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: Ben Mugged

nice to know we have senior military leaders who have never seen Operation Petticoat...


28 posted on 09/24/2009 11:54:21 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: jaydubya2; messierhunter

Temporary torpedo storage facilitators.


29 posted on 09/24/2009 11:55:27 AM PDT by Enterprise (When they come for your guns and ammo, give them the ammo first.)
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To: Ben Mugged

Hey, Baby...wanna join the Fifty Fathoms Club?


30 posted on 09/24/2009 11:55:47 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: RexBeach

Screw that!


31 posted on 09/24/2009 11:57:21 AM PDT by Bubba (There's a revolution a-brewing!)
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To: Dan(9698)

It’s not sharing; it’s called hot bunking, where the off watch swab jockey sleeps in the bunk. They don’t both use the bunk at the same time, (but you knew that didn’t you?)


32 posted on 09/24/2009 11:58:40 AM PDT by Banjoguy (Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat party are among the enemies of The Republic.)
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To: pepsionice
My guess is that 8 of the twenty women will be preg by the last week. Five of the women will be declared emotionally unfit and send to mental health. And three of the women will be declared lesbians by members of the crew.

Good post. And it can get much worse in our litigious age: imagine, after an extended cruise, the few women on the sub filing a lawsuit against the captain, claiming he created and maintained a subtle environment of sexist intimidation that was implicitly followed by the crew.

No proof would have to exist, the only necessary thing would be for the women to state that the all felt afraid and intimidated, and that no one noticed because they were too frightened to reveal their vulnerabilities to the misogynistic, sexually threatening crew.

No defense would be possible or accepted, they'd win millions and the captain's career would be destroyed. Massive sensitivity training would be imposed on sub crews which still would not guard against further suits, and crew moral and efficiency would go into the toilet.

33 posted on 09/24/2009 11:59:20 AM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: RexBeach
"Well, a lot of them sure get pregnant on long deployments with carrier battle groups."

I agree with you entirely. But, try to find a report that quantifies what percentage (or even number) of women actually get pregnant while at sea - It's nowhere to be found. They do publish the statistics for women that are pregnant while at sea, and that number is around 11% (last figures I saw were from 2007). I'm assuming that some of them became pregnant before deploying, and didn't find out they were pregnant until after they were at sea.

Whatever the case, a 11% "casualty" rate (and that's what it is with respect to mission readiness and capability), is a BIG problem for ship's captains as well as Navy HQ. I can only imagine, having never served aboard a sub, that "casualties" on such a ship with such a limited crew, become even more corrosive to the ship's readiness and morale.

34 posted on 09/24/2009 12:00:34 PM PDT by OldDeckHand (No Socialized Medicine, No Way, No How, No Time)
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To: RexBeach
To be pregnant is a quick way to get out...problem is that dumb women that get pregnant don't realize the job lasts for at least 18 years and for many way beyond that age..

Women can serve in many capacities, on ships is not one of them...just my pre femi-nazi opinion...

The whole women serving in combat had only one goal at the time...Females in the military could not get certain stars unless they had combat experience...that was what the feminists pushed for and were quite up front about it...But after that was said, the MSM dropped the subject quick...

35 posted on 09/24/2009 12:00:56 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Talisker
Good post. And it can get much worse in our litigious age: imagine, after an extended cruise, the few women on the sub filing a lawsuit against the captain, claiming he created and maintained a subtle environment of sexist intimidation that was implicitly followed by the crew.

The only solution is to have an all female crewed submarine. Won't that be fun.

36 posted on 09/24/2009 12:01:28 PM PDT by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: Snickering Hound

Well, since your throwing around completely absurd stereotypes, she’ll either get herself pregnant on purpose or get pregnant after having been gang raped by a bunch of sailors who cannot help themselves, right? I mean, they’re young men, and boys will be boys.

So tell us, what exactly is the percentage of female service members who get pregnant while on active duty?


37 posted on 09/24/2009 12:01:29 PM PDT by dmz
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Lieutenant, we are having a surprise drug test in five minutes and you will personally observe that each sailor gives a proper urine sample.

38 posted on 09/24/2009 12:01:35 PM PDT by Enterprise (When they come for your guns and ammo, give them the ammo first.)
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To: Ben Mugged

Mullen’s an idiot


39 posted on 09/24/2009 12:01:37 PM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: Tenacious 1

I’ll ask my Son, but it’ll have to wait.

It’s 5 A.M. in Guam. I think.


40 posted on 09/24/2009 12:01:42 PM PDT by Elderberry
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To: Ben Mugged
So what do you think will happen when the first woman aboard a sub gets pregnant, do they surface in order to med-evac her? What about if her child is born with birth defects due to radiation or even exposure to lead from the batteries? This can happen long after she's done serving. Will we be seeing lawsuits? Have the idiots in this administration thought this through or are we doing it because its politically correct?

I don't see how this policy enhances the capability of our submarine force, therefore it's par for the course in the 0bama administration.

I'm to the point now where I can only refer to him as the a$$ occupying the white house.

41 posted on 09/24/2009 12:02:07 PM PDT by YankeeReb
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To: Ben Mugged

And less likely to deploy.
Less likely to be able to carry their own kit.
Less likely to engage the enemy.

I was a Lance (nuclear) missile officer and the majority of them (all female officers) were incompetent.

But, hey, they were all pregnant more than half the time, so no big deal because they could rarely deploy on exercises. As long as a male soldier was picking up the slack ...


42 posted on 09/24/2009 12:04:21 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Ben Mugged
Women have not proven to be a liability in space. They have proven to be lethal in combat and are more likely to use nuclear weapons than a man on nuclear missile crew duty.

In general I agree with you. I spent a lifetime in the military and on the whole I've found my female peers just as dedicated and just as qualified as my male peers. However, it's a different environment in a cramped submarine that remains underwater for months at a time. The logistics involved with segmenting birthing and heads by sex is just too complicated to solve easily.

43 posted on 09/24/2009 12:04:27 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Ben Mugged

Being an old fart, I really don’t know the answer to this one even though, I suspect the answer is no. Do the sub crews still share racks on a shift basis? If so that could get real interesting.


44 posted on 09/24/2009 12:04:28 PM PDT by Tupelo
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To: Banjoguy
It’s not sharing; it’s called hot bunking,

It would really be "hot bunking" when overlap occured.

45 posted on 09/24/2009 12:04:30 PM PDT by Dan(9698)
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To: RexBeach
Well, a lot of them sure get pregnant on long deployments with carrier battle groups.

A lot more don't.

46 posted on 09/24/2009 12:04:54 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Tenacious 1

I am not a submariner, but a good friend of mine served on the Nautilus. He said his main problem was that he was married, so it would be harder on the uys trying to be faithful to their wives, knowing that their shipmates were getting attention.


47 posted on 09/24/2009 12:05:08 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: Talisker
No defense would be possible or accepted, they'd win millions and the captain's career would be destroyed. Massive sensitivity training would be imposed on sub crews which still would not guard against further suits, and crew moral and efficiency would go into the toilet.

You don't know much about military law do you?

48 posted on 09/24/2009 12:05:25 PM PDT by Ben Mugged (Unions are the storm troopers of socialism.)
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To: Scythian

subs - long , hard and full of seamen, er, seapersons.


49 posted on 09/24/2009 12:06:16 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (ACORN:American Corruption for Obama Right Now)
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To: Non-Sequitur
A lot more don't.

That's like saying Babe Ruth had a lot more strikeouts than home runs. You still pitch carefully to him.
50 posted on 09/24/2009 12:06:26 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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