Skip to comments.Report: Mullen Backs Women Serving on Submarines
Posted on 09/24/2009 11:38:30 AM PDT by Ben Mugged
Female sailors can broaden their role in the Navy by serving on submarines, an activity currently prohibited by the Armed Service, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has advised the Senate Armed Services Committee.
According to Defensetech.org, a site run by Military.com, a group boasting a membership of 10 million veterans and active duty forces, Adm. Michael Mullen told senators in a recent survey that he's long been an advocate for improving diversity in the Armed Forces.
"I believe we should continue to broaden opportunities for women. One policy I would like to see changed is the one barring their service aboard submarines," he added.
The policy change would mark a huge shift for the Navy, whose submarines have been devoid of female sailors even though women began flying fighter jets and performing other seagoing combat roles 15 years ago.
Defensetech.org reported that Mullen, a former chief of naval operations and a surface warfare officer, wrote his endorsement of women serving in subs in his response to questions submitted by senators preparing for Mullen's confirmation hearing for a second term as chairman of the JCS. That hearing was held Sept. 15.
Opponents of females serving on submarines say space is too restrictive to accommodate privacy needs for women, in particular bathrooms. Another study -- conducted in 1994 -- noted that fraternization in close quarters, among other issues, could also complicate operations at sea
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Well, a lot of them sure get pregnant on long deployments with carrier battle groups.
Where are they going to put the daycare on a sub?
How’s that slightly-limited-space somewhat-communal-living thing gonna work?
One of my female friends once remarked that it might be a bad idea to have a female president if only because if a country irked her enough during a certain time of the month she might hit the red button quite a bit more quickly than a man would.
Talk about a hot bunk...
Big problem is when she gets tired of the long deployment and decides to get pregnant to get out of it.
I want to hear from some of the submariners that post here. Somebody ping them.
It is my understanding that there is NO personal space on a sub. Restrooms, beds, showers, etc. are all shared.
Have things changed that make a submariners life more fitting to intimate space between men and women?
Won’t they all have their periods at the same time?
That is a real slap at professional female soldiers. Yes a small few will use this tactic but so do male soldiers use the "gay" excuse. You use a small percentage to paint the entire force.
Carriers have a lot of seamen.
I would suggest a simple university type test. Lock 90 folks into a 6,000 sq ft area for 60 days. Arrange it so 20 females and 70 males are in the environment. Make sure most are under the age of 25 years old. Arrange a joint “head” and a joint “sleeping” situation.
My guess is that 8 of the twenty women will be preg by the last week. Five of the women will be declared emotionally unfit and send to mental health. And three of the women will be declared lesbians by members of the crew.
People who favor this kind of stuff....haven’t been in cramped quarters for weeks at a time.
This thread is getting a little sexest. There are many roles in the military that women are aptly suited for and in some cases excel. An entire sub crew of women might be more appropriate and equally effective. I would support this instead.
I do not support women on subs for the following reasons:
1. Life is tough on a sub and would be even more so on a woman. It’s not fair.
2. It would be costly to modify a billion dollar weapon to appropriately accomodate both sexes.
3. Most young military men are not mature enough sexually to not allow a woman to be a distraction. They are professional enough, just not mature enough.
Now I am uncomfortable.
Yep. Better keep them away from the firing codes during that week.
nice to know we have senior military leaders who have never seen Operation Petticoat...
Temporary torpedo storage facilitators.
Hey, Baby...wanna join the Fifty Fathoms Club?
It’s not sharing; it’s called hot bunking, where the off watch swab jockey sleeps in the bunk. They don’t both use the bunk at the same time, (but you knew that didn’t you?)
Good post. And it can get much worse in our litigious age: imagine, after an extended cruise, the few women on the sub filing a lawsuit against the captain, claiming he created and maintained a subtle environment of sexist intimidation that was implicitly followed by the crew.
No proof would have to exist, the only necessary thing would be for the women to state that the all felt afraid and intimidated, and that no one noticed because they were too frightened to reveal their vulnerabilities to the misogynistic, sexually threatening crew.
No defense would be possible or accepted, they'd win millions and the captain's career would be destroyed. Massive sensitivity training would be imposed on sub crews which still would not guard against further suits, and crew moral and efficiency would go into the toilet.
I agree with you entirely. But, try to find a report that quantifies what percentage (or even number) of women actually get pregnant while at sea - It's nowhere to be found. They do publish the statistics for women that are pregnant while at sea, and that number is around 11% (last figures I saw were from 2007). I'm assuming that some of them became pregnant before deploying, and didn't find out they were pregnant until after they were at sea.
Whatever the case, a 11% "casualty" rate (and that's what it is with respect to mission readiness and capability), is a BIG problem for ship's captains as well as Navy HQ. I can only imagine, having never served aboard a sub, that "casualties" on such a ship with such a limited crew, become even more corrosive to the ship's readiness and morale.
Women can serve in many capacities, on ships is not one of them...just my pre femi-nazi opinion...
The whole women serving in combat had only one goal at the time...Females in the military could not get certain stars unless they had combat experience...that was what the feminists pushed for and were quite up front about it...But after that was said, the MSM dropped the subject quick...
The only solution is to have an all female crewed submarine. Won't that be fun.
Well, since your throwing around completely absurd stereotypes, she’ll either get herself pregnant on purpose or get pregnant after having been gang raped by a bunch of sailors who cannot help themselves, right? I mean, they’re young men, and boys will be boys.
So tell us, what exactly is the percentage of female service members who get pregnant while on active duty?
Lieutenant, we are having a surprise drug test in five minutes and you will personally observe that each sailor gives a proper urine sample.
Mullen’s an idiot
I’ll ask my Son, but it’ll have to wait.
It’s 5 A.M. in Guam. I think.
I don't see how this policy enhances the capability of our submarine force, therefore it's par for the course in the 0bama administration.
I'm to the point now where I can only refer to him as the a$$ occupying the white house.
And less likely to deploy.
Less likely to be able to carry their own kit.
Less likely to engage the enemy.
I was a Lance (nuclear) missile officer and the majority of them (all female officers) were incompetent.
But, hey, they were all pregnant more than half the time, so no big deal because they could rarely deploy on exercises. As long as a male soldier was picking up the slack ...
In general I agree with you. I spent a lifetime in the military and on the whole I've found my female peers just as dedicated and just as qualified as my male peers. However, it's a different environment in a cramped submarine that remains underwater for months at a time. The logistics involved with segmenting birthing and heads by sex is just too complicated to solve easily.
Being an old fart, I really don’t know the answer to this one even though, I suspect the answer is no. Do the sub crews still share racks on a shift basis? If so that could get real interesting.
It would really be "hot bunking" when overlap occured.
A lot more don't.
I am not a submariner, but a good friend of mine served on the Nautilus. He said his main problem was that he was married, so it would be harder on the uys trying to be faithful to their wives, knowing that their shipmates were getting attention.
You don't know much about military law do you?
subs - long , hard and full of seamen, er, seapersons.