Posted on 09/25/2009 10:45:34 AM PDT by Palin Republic
>Which rates?
You know EXACTLY “which rates” we’re talking about!
You just mentioned them, as did the Bloomberg article!
If you have something to say, spit it out.
Save the pedantic Socratic method for someone that hasn’t already passed Econ 1.
The partial controlled burn we’ve done so far obviously isn’t cutting it. Don’t make me post Peter Schiff at you!
“Let’s recap: You were wrong about their announcement of interest rate targets, wrong about their release of info about purchases and sales and finally, wrong about how they buy bonds. I’m noticing a pattern here.”
I didn’t say that they didn’t announce interest rate targets. I didn’t say that they didn’t release info about purchases and sales and finally choosing when is basically like choosing who because different banks at different times have different needs.
“More proof you don’t understand how they buy bonds from primary dealers. “
Explain in detail how what I said is wrong then.
“So we’ve gone from they don’t give any info to they don’t give all info. I guess that’s an improvement.”
I’m talking about categories of information. Just because they purport to give everything that is relevant does not mean that they actually do.
Once again you put forth the ridiculous notion that a satisfactory method of audit is to ask people nicely for information and if they don’t want to give that information just assume you are better off not knowing.
>Anybody that regularly uses the term “fiat currency” in a sentence should no longer be trusted on matters of finance.
Au contraire mon frere. Anybody that trusts “fiat currency” in an economy should no longer be trusted on matters of finance.
Peter Schiff, Jim Rogers, or Gerald Celente, for example, I would trust to invest my money.
You and the Keynesian economists, not so much.
Don’t forget, Schiff likes real money and he was right all along:
Peter Schiff Was Right 2006 - 2007 (2nd Edition)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw
Better rethink your position, lest you wind up featured on the upcoming 3rd Edition!
You said, "Nothing about monetary policy or market operations is available"
Rate targets is about monetary policy. Purchase and sale info is about market operations.
Explain in detail how what I said is wrong then.
You said, "Choosing who to buy bonds from based on how that person is related to them"
Are you under the impression that a Primary Dealer that makes a better offer when the FOMC wants to buy bonds will be passed over for a different Primary Dealer, "based on how that person is related to them"?
I guess you don't know how auctions work?
I’m talking about categories of information.
You said, categorically that no info was available. You were obviously wrong.
Just because they purport to give everything that is relevant does not mean that they actually do.
Just because you mistakenly purport they give nothing, doesn't mean you're right.
Once again you put forth the ridiculous notion that a satisfactory method of audit is to ask people nicely for information
Ask nicely? They give everything they are required to give, by an Act of Congress. You should read a book or something. A real one, not a conspiracy screed. I'm making progress, but at this rate, it could be years before you unlearn all your bad info.
Remind me.
If you have something to say, spit it out.
Your claims are silly.
Don’t make me post Peter Schiff at you!
Please, I need a laugh.
“You said, “Nothing about monetary policy or market operations is available”
Rate targets is about monetary policy. Purchase and sale info is about market operations.”
Like I said before, I was referring to the parts of monetary policy. And like I said before it is illegal to audit them. I’m talking about categories of monetary policy, not specific bits of information that the fed decides to give us.
” You said, “Choosing who to buy bonds from based on how that person is related to them”
Are you under the impression that a Primary Dealer that makes a better offer when the FOMC wants to buy bonds will be passed over for a different Primary Dealer, “based on how that person is related to them”?
I guess you don’t know how auctions work?”
I already said that when is just like who because when the banks need to sell or buy bonds at different times. There is also how-much. Both of those things can equal who.
“You said, categorically that no info was available. You were obviously wrong.”
For an audit certain categories are unavailable by law. Whether or not bits and pieces or the whole of any particular category is given whenever the fed feels like it is irrelevant.
“Just because you mistakenly purport they give nothing, doesn’t mean you’re right.”
When auditing something you don’t ask them nicely for as much information they like to give. Whether or not they give “something” is irrelevant. If being audited by the IRS every category of information they need has to be available.
“Ask nicely? They give everything they are required to give, by an Act of Congress. You should read a book or something. A real one, not a conspiracy screed. I’m making progress, but at this rate, it could be years before you unlearn all your bad info.”
They don’t give everything that one might want. How many times must I post the number of things they aren’t required to give information about?
Whether or not they decide at any given time to give out tidbits beyond what they are required to do by law is irrelevant because if the information looked bad for them they wouldn’t necessarily release it.
If Barney Frank and Dodd get power over monetary policy, I think rates could soar.
Duh, what rates? Remind me.
Fed’s Alvarez Says Audits Could Lead to Higher Rates (Update1)
Your Keyensian vision of centrally planned capitalism has failed.
The longer we hold back natural market forces, the longer we suffer waiting for economic recovery.
Peter Schiff on Kudlow & Co. U.S Banks Are Worthless
Peter Schiff Nov 8 2008 - Let Them Fail
Peter Schiff - No More Bailouts - Let The American Auto Makers Fail
Peter Schiff: Let Them All Fail
Peter Schiff on what to read and the nonsense of Keynesian mainstream economics
Keynesian? Not hardly. Do you even know who he was?
All money is fiat currency. None more so than gold.
I think all rates could soar. Do you claim that all rates "have been artificially held down by manipulation for decades"?
Your Keyensian vision of centrally planned capitalism has failed.
I don't have one of those.
So when you said nothing was available, you really meant something was available?
I’m talking about categories of monetary policy, not specific bits of information that the fed decides to give us.
You mean the specific bits they must give us by law?
I already said that when is just like who because when the banks need to sell or buy bonds at different times.
The Fed holds an auction when they need to buy or sell bonds, not when you imagine a specific primary dealer needs to buy or sell bonds.
For an audit certain categories are unavailable by law.
And certain areas are available by law. Glad you finally realize that.
When auditing something you don’t ask them nicely for as much information they like to give.
When auditing someones financial statements, you look at their financial statements. Kinda like when the Fed's financial statements are audited. Once a year.
If being audited by the IRS every category of information they need has to be available.
Exactly! So when the IRS audits your tax returns, should they be able to audit your medical records? If you withhold your medical records, are you somehow making their financial audit invalid? Incomplete?
They don’t give everything that one might want.
It's true, they don't give everything you might want.
How many times must I post the number of things they aren’t required to give information about?
I know what they must provide as required by law. How many times must I post that they do?
Whether or not they decide at any given time to give out tidbits beyond what they are required to do by law is irrelevant because if the information looked bad for them they wouldn’t necessarily release it.
How would it look bad for them?
“So you are saying that the best way to audit or investigate someone is to have them voluntarily give you information?”
The GAO audits of Fed, and their weekly reports and other audits are not ‘voluntary’, but required.
“I don’t know that patents are necessary for innovation and can actually harm it.”
Innovation is protected as property via the patenting process. Without it, the rewards of innovation would be much less. People would only have trade secrets, and sharing and knowledge diffusion and rates of progress would therefore be less.
Our framers thought it important enough that they even put it in the Constitution.
“It is part of a system that disallows one to use any other kind of legal tender. “
that’s not much of a crimp of your style, as you can buy anytype of material - oil, gold, silver, etc. - you can trade it for any commodity or currency on exchanges.
“The fed pumps out money at the behest of the president (who will nominate its chairman). “
That’s hyperbole at best, nonsense at worst.
“There are a lot of things they don’t have to tell anyone. “
Same with our local school board, the FCC, the SEC, HHS, the DoD, and Congress itself.
“If everything we want to know is already in there why would they be opposed to a full audit?” - They explained why in their testimoney to congress - did you read it? A key point was made - POLITICAL INTERFERENCE with the Fed negatively affects market perception of the Fed as consistent inflation fighters.
That said, I am all for Fed transparency.
“They give everything they are required to give, by an Act of Congress. You should read a book or something. A real one, not a conspiracy screed. I’m making progress, but at this rate, it could be years before you unlearn all your bad info.”
I’d be interested to know if the misunderstandings are self-taught or if Ron Paul’s book includes these secrecy claims.
“So when you said nothing was available, you really meant something was available?”
No, like I’ve said numerous times it isn’t available for an audit. Considering it enough to have whatever they decide we should have is absolutely ridiculous.
“You mean the specific bits they must give us by law?”
They don’t have to give us everything that they give us.
“The Fed holds an auction when they need to buy or sell bonds, not when you imagine a specific primary dealer needs to buy or sell bonds.”
Who decides what the fed needs? The fed.
“And certain areas are available by law. Glad you finally realize that.”
I never disputed that.
“When auditing someones financial statements, you look at their financial statements. Kinda like when the Fed’s financial statements are audited. Once a year.”
Sure, what is your point? I’m talking about an audit not limited to what the audits are currently limited to.
“Exactly! So when the IRS audits your tax returns, should they be able to audit your medical records? If you withhold your medical records, are you somehow making their financial audit invalid? Incomplete?”
No it has to be only things that are relevant to taxes. And the audits will include only things relevant to the powers granted to the fed. As they should. Right now they don’t completely as I have pointed out numerous times.
“It’s true, they don’t give everything you might want.”
Or that people who want to audit them might want. Or that they might need to know.
“I know what they must provide as required by law. How many times must I post that they do?”
I never asked you to.
“How would it look bad for them?”
If they are using their power to benefit their buddies or themselves.
“I’d be interested to know if the misunderstandings are self-taught or if Ron Paul’s book includes these secrecy claims.”
The law snippet I posted point out the secrecy.
“The GAO audits of Fed, and their weekly reports and other audits are not ‘voluntary’, but required.”
I’m talking about the information the fed gives that is NOT required.
As an individual, one way out is for each and every one of us to secure a physical store of gold and/or silver. At least 1/10th of your savings - if a large portion of the population adhered to this, a financial disaster from the false paper economy would be cushioned by the resurgence of a real money economy. Do it! Now! Every one of you!
“Innovation is protected as property via the patenting process. Without it, the rewards of innovation would be much less. People would only have trade secrets, and sharing and knowledge diffusion and rates of progress would therefore be less.
Our framers thought it important enough that they even put it in the Constitution.”
Patents hurt innovation by tying up new products and protecting them from improvement from competition until the patent expires.
And I think the framers might have been wrong about that. I know it is in the constitution. It is a power given to the legislature, but they don’t have to do it.
““The fed pumps out money at the behest of the president (who will nominate its chairman). “
That’s hyperbole at best, nonsense at worst.”
The fed chairman knows who decides whether or not he continues at his job. Of course that influences what he does.
“Same with our local school board, the FCC, the SEC, HHS, the DoD, and Congress itself.”
Congress has to answer directly to us. The DoD is answerable to the president. The president can be impeached.
The FCC, SEC, and HHS should be required to be as open as their relative power demands. As should the Fed.
The fed is quite powerful.
“They explained why in their testimoney to congress - did you read it? A key point was made - POLITICAL INTERFERENCE with the Fed negatively affects market perception of the Fed as consistent inflation fighters.
That said, I am all for Fed transparency.”
Lack of mandatory Fed transparency leads to a market perception that the Fed can be playing favorites or not really worrying about inflation and just saying that they are trying to stem inflation.
“The DoD is answerable to the president.”
So is the Fed, according to you.
“So is the Fed, according to you.”
Not in the same way.
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