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Landlords could be punished for underage tenants' drinking (MN)
City pages ^ | 9-25-09 | Drew Nelson

Posted on 09/25/2009 3:16:06 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB

St. Paul may soon pass a social host ordinance that punishes adults who knowingly allow parties, where minors are drinking. That includes adults who aren't even there, including landlords. "They bear some of the responsibility to ensure it doesn't continue," said St. Paul Council Member Russ Stark.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.citypages.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: alcohol; drinking; landlords; stpaul; teens; tenants
Russ is the same moonbat who recently tried to ban transfatty foods in St.Paul.

STARKraving mad.

1 posted on 09/25/2009 3:16:07 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Using that logic, shouldn’t the cops also go after the city council? I’m mean, they are ultimately the ones responsible for everything that goes on in the city, right?


2 posted on 09/25/2009 3:18:38 PM PDT by thecabal (Destroy Progressivism)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
What will the city do when landlords refuse to rent to students or vacate because of liability issues?

Prime example of why the drinking age should be lowered to 18 or 19. This is a stupid nanny-statist law that will do more harm than good.

3 posted on 09/25/2009 3:20:56 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (90% of the fedgov is unconstitutional. The other 10% besides the military doesnt know what it's doin)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Pretty transparent way to give the trial lawyers access to landlords’ insurance companies — dumb kids don’t have any insurance, and no money, anyway....


4 posted on 09/25/2009 3:21:54 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: thecabal

They should go and arrest the President who is ultimately responsible for all the crime in the country.


5 posted on 09/25/2009 3:22:42 PM PDT by reg45 (Be calm everyone. The idiot children are in charge!)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
Every time I think of the age of 21 as the legal age for drinking, I get mad at Ronald Reagan, who in 1984 signed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act. It was an affront to state's rights and NO ONE in the conservative movement spoke out against it.

It's not the government's (state or federal) business if I give my 18 year-old kid a bear while he's in my home.

6 posted on 09/25/2009 3:25:25 PM PDT by OldDeckHand (No Socialized Medicine, No Way, No How, No Time)
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To: OldDeckHand

I keep and arm bears at my place.


7 posted on 09/25/2009 3:27:11 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (ACORN:American Corruption for Obama Right Now)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

nanny state...that describes MN.

Maybe Al Franken can come sit at the property and monitor it.


8 posted on 09/25/2009 3:28:58 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (ACORN:American Corruption for Obama Right Now)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"Prime example of why the drinking age should be lowered to 18 or 19."

If we had a court system that wasn't stuffed with individuals that are intellectually dishonest and disingenuous, the law of "21" would have been struck down for violating the equal protection clause a long, long time ago.

Why we think we can mandate that young 18 year-old men must register with Selective Service, but can't walk into their local watering hole and ordering a tall, cold frosty, is absolutely lost on me.

9 posted on 09/25/2009 3:29:20 PM PDT by OldDeckHand (No Socialized Medicine, No Way, No How, No Time)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
"I keep and arm bears at my place."

LOL - I've got to start wearing my glasses. And heck, why can't I give my kid a bear who's holder a beer?

10 posted on 09/25/2009 3:30:48 PM PDT by OldDeckHand (No Socialized Medicine, No Way, No How, No Time)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Boy, the law just gets stupider and stupider.

The drinking age should be 18.

Regards,


11 posted on 09/25/2009 3:32:14 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid (Grab your gun and bring in the cat.)
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To: Uncle Ike; All

“Pretty transparent way to give the trial lawyers access to landlords’ insurance companies — dumb kids don’t have any insurance, and no money, anyway....”

Folks, we have a WINNER!!


12 posted on 09/25/2009 3:33:35 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: MplsSteve

Nanny state in Minnesota ping


13 posted on 09/25/2009 3:44:07 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Liberal sacred cows make great hamburger)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Simple solution; don’t rent to anybody under 21...or to anybody that knows somebody under 21.


14 posted on 09/25/2009 3:58:13 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (Now that the libs are in power dissent is not only unpatriotic, but, it is also racist.)
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To: OldDeckHand

“It’s not the government’s (state or federal) business if I give my 18 year-old kid a bear while he’s in my home.”

Last I heard, it wasn’t illegal in Ohio to give your own 18 year-old kid a beer or a glass of wine.


15 posted on 09/25/2009 4:04:15 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Muslims don’t like it....


16 posted on 09/25/2009 4:44:25 PM PDT by Freddd
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To: crazyhorse691

Now you went and done it! Not renting to under 21 would be a violation of the Fair Housing Act.


17 posted on 09/25/2009 4:45:26 PM PDT by nd2bfree
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To: WOBBLY BOB

What is the landlord supposed to do—spy on all of his tenants every night, in violation of any normal lease or expectation of privacy the tenants might have? He can’t enter the premises, so is he supposed to besiege the police with false alarms because he might suspect underage drinking is taking place?


18 posted on 09/25/2009 5:09:24 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine (Is /sarc really necessary?)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

I always knew that bad time were coming. I just never realized how evil things would get, and how quickly it would come. Very soon it going to be crime just to be alive.


19 posted on 09/25/2009 5:09:34 PM PDT by Revel
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To: WOBBLY BOB

...and next, the landlord will beheld finacially liable for the resulting pregnancies that happen at said underage drinking parties.


20 posted on 09/25/2009 5:22:52 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch ("Racist" and proud of it! I discriminate against Homo Liberalcuss at all times.)
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To: OldDeckHand
It's not the government's (state or federal) business if I give my 18 year-old kid a bear while he's in my home.

I'm surprised the National Park Service rangers don't arrest you.

21 posted on 09/25/2009 5:36:11 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Liberals never make other Liberals take responsibility for their actions. It is easier to put the blame on some poor hard working schmuck who is just trying to make a living.


22 posted on 09/25/2009 5:54:46 PM PDT by antidemoncrat (.)
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To: reg45
They should go and arrest the President who is ultimately responsible for all the crime in the country.

I saw 10 colleges/univ in St Paul. Presuming that they have dormitories, those Pres could be held liable as the 'landlord'.

23 posted on 09/25/2009 5:59:48 PM PDT by This_far (Mandatory health insurance? I thought it was about health care!)
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To: Revel
Very soon it going to be crime just to be alive.

My neighborhood association in conjunction with the police have used these types of laws to great effect. It is significantly easier to rid your neighborhood of the renting drug dealing/prostituting/pre-teens breaking into houses type using these laws than letting the cops handle it.

24 posted on 09/25/2009 6:26:29 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Well then they shouldn’t be surprised if anyone refuses to rent to anyone with kids in the 11-21 age group! If this were law and I was threatened with being held responsible I would refuse to rent to anyone with kids in that age range.


25 posted on 09/25/2009 6:56:55 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: Dianna

And it is always better to take the easy way out right?

It would already be a crime for a landlord or any other adult to be involved in providing alcohol to a minor- right?

So then what is this all about. This is about finding someone else to punish for a crime that the landlord in fact very well may have no control over it, and is a victim of a tenant gone bad as well. The landlord has no recourse in an event like this other than paying a lawyer a couple of thousand to try and evict the tenant. Of which liberal laws now assume that the tenant is always the innocent party. And if the tenant is of lower income then they can get county lawyers who won’t charge them a cent. It is called legal aid.

Now if the cops were to charge the landlord with such a crime as this then the landlord would have to launch a legal defense to prove there innocence. This would cost a huge amount more money. The Law here is making one guilty of a crime by simply maybe having any knowledge about it. know who can say what the knowledge even really is or isn’t. The landlord might very well have no personal relationship with these tenants at all.

Underage drinking is a crime. Providing alcohol to a minor is a crime. If those laws were enforced then the problem is solved. But that is not enough. So lets make everyone guilty. Lets make all the neighbors guilty who know and do not report it. And if grandma and grampa have any knowledge then throw them in jail too. And if the mailman maybe sees something then lets make him guilty too.

You can have your new America, and its way of viewing the world. It is not for me. And when they lock up the people who don’t have health care, and fine away every cent they have, then you can cheer that on too.


26 posted on 09/25/2009 7:56:47 PM PDT by Revel
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To: OldDeckHand

Excellent points...


27 posted on 09/25/2009 9:24:16 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (90% of the fedgov is unconstitutional. The other 10% besides the military doesnt know what it's doin)
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28 posted on 09/25/2009 9:54:42 PM PDT by MplsSteve
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To: Revel
You can have your new America, and its way of viewing the world.

Well, the best I can do is assure you that this type of action is only taken in severe and on-going disruption. Landlords around here are MUCH more careful about whom they rent to.

I have neighbors who have spent the last 3 months taking shifts at night to watch and protect their own and the property of their closest neighbors because the police insist that if they didn't see it, it didn't happen. Kids under the age of 15 are given less than a wrist slap. One kid stole a neighbor's car and set it on fire. He is 13. A girl planted a pipe bomb next to someone's house. She is 12.

It was after the pipe bomb next to the house that the neighbors started keeping watch. Tell me you would put up with this on your street without using everything at your disposal to stop it.

By the way, the Police Chief dismisses our concern because we don't have anyone being shot. Yeah? Not yet.

29 posted on 09/25/2009 10:06:42 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: VermiciousKnid

having been 18 and a senior in high school in that year or so when 18 was legal in this state i have to say it is kinda hard, drinks or sports, or both? LOL There is also the problem of having friends a few months younger whom you want to party with and you are the one who can get the stuff, so 19 probably would be a better age, 99% will be out of high school by then and less likely to buy for younger classmates and underclassmen.


30 posted on 09/26/2009 7:46:21 AM PDT by tickles
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To: tickles

tickles, I myself was 18 once...when the legal drinking age was still 18. In fact, I became legal to drink a total of 3 times here in NY.

When I turned 18 in February, I became legal. NY state changed the law, and on December 1 of that same year...POOF! I was illegal again, until February. Two years later, the same thing happened. Legal, not legal, legal, not legal, legal. It was utter and complete nonsense then, and it’s nonsense now.

BTW...I was a junior in college on my 18th birthday, and was firmly established in a career by the time I was 21. I was an adult in all things except my ability to drink beer. Sporadically.

The point is, we need to make a choice about the age of majority. Shall it be 18? 21? We need to decide, because this article illustrates what can happen when the Law of Unintended Consequences shows its face.

Regards,

PS: If you recall, most states changed their drinking ages only under the duress incurred by the Fed sticking its nose in where it didn’t belong (as usual). I doubt very much they would have done so without that particular extortion. It was among the only things I didn’t like about the Reagan administration.


31 posted on 09/26/2009 1:13:16 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid (Grab your gun and bring in the cat.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Quick tell acorn that property ownership strategy they advised might not work.


32 posted on 09/26/2009 1:47:05 PM PDT by lucias_clay (All We Weed Up !)
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To: Dianna

So then your real problem is that the police are not doing there Job.


33 posted on 09/26/2009 2:02:02 PM PDT by Revel
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To: OldDeckHand

Agree. My kid and I have “split” a beer since she was just a little thing.


34 posted on 09/26/2009 2:08:34 PM PDT by sand lake bar (Take that thing off your head and act like an American!)
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To: OldDeckHand

Well giving him a bear might harm him, but a cold beer might be ok:)


35 posted on 09/26/2009 2:10:44 PM PDT by calex59 (FUBO, we want our constitution back and we intend to get it!)
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To: Revel
It would already be a crime for a landlord or any other adult to be involved in providing alcohol to a minor- right?

That may be true, it is not against the law for a landlord to NOT be aware of the crime being committed, I.E. Alcohol being served to minors. As a landlord that only visits tenets occasionally to see if the property is being kept up and to order needed repairs, why should I be liable if a parent allows their underage teen to drink? You are a fool if you think that is a fair law.

36 posted on 09/26/2009 2:16:34 PM PDT by calex59 (FUBO, we want our constitution back and we intend to get it!)
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To: Revel
So then your real problem is that the police are not doing there Job.

Absolutely. I suspect that is why these laws get passed.

37 posted on 09/26/2009 2:23:48 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
What will the city do when landlords refuse to rent to students or vacate because of liability issues?

The landlords should refuse to rent to anyone under 21 OR anyone with kids under 21. They should send out notices to their tenants with children under 21 that should the law pass their lease will not be renewed.

Prime example of why the drinking age should be lowered to 18 or 19. This is a stupid nanny-statist law that will do more harm than good.

You are right! The drinking age should be 18. The neo-prohibitionists and statists want the government to run everyone’s life.

38 posted on 09/26/2009 2:45:24 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: All

How about kicking people out of public housing if their underage kids drink, do drugs, commit crimes?


39 posted on 08/19/2011 6:42:35 AM PDT by Maverick68
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