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Evangelist Takes On Darwin (Temple of Darwin cries blasphemy!)
CEH ^ | September 27, 2009

Posted on 09/28/2009 8:12:21 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts

Sept 27, 2009 — What would Darwin do? Just in time for the 150th anniversary of The Origin of Species, his magnum opus has been reprinted with an introduction not by a scientist or historian, but by a Christian evangelist. He and a Christian movie actor are trying to get their special edition to students at major universities. Talk about brashness. Darwin’s defenders are stepping on themselves to condemn this – well, blasphemy...

(Excerpt) Read more at creationsafaris.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: anniversary; belongsinreligion; catholic; charismatic; christian; creation; denislamoureux; education; evangelical; evolution; highereducation; homeschool; homeschooling; intelligentdesign; lamoureux; lutheran; notasciencetopic; originofspecies; propellerbeanie; protestant; science
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1 posted on 09/28/2009 8:12:22 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Also see...

CEH Cartoon of the Week

2 posted on 09/28/2009 8:14:08 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

You gotta love the pure chutzpah of these two!


3 posted on 09/28/2009 8:17:14 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Which edition is the one that has Darwin’s racism included?


4 posted on 09/28/2009 8:18:23 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
"Darwin’s defenders are stepping on themselves to condemn this – well, blasphemy...

In hundreds of posts on the same subject you have never addressed the fact that if natural selection and evolution exist they were created by God. And if they were created by God He might have used them.

5 posted on 09/28/2009 8:18:57 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts
Another book review that paints everyone who believes in evolution as an atheist.

Cute.

6 posted on 09/28/2009 8:23:26 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: GodGunsGuts
Some folks say BoolSheet
7 posted on 09/28/2009 8:24:08 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
WOW! An actor AND an evangelist! Too bad I've never heard of either of them. But I guess we might as well toss out all of the biology books now that the guy from Growing Pains (I looked him up) has weighed in on the subject. And I haven't forgotten the Good Reverend Comfort (I looked him up too), who tell us that proof of God's benevolence can be found in the humble banana. They taste good, are easy to open, and fit RIGHT IN YOUR HAND! With a God like that, who needs Madison Avenue? When are you guys going to learn the difference between apologetics and science?
8 posted on 09/28/2009 8:29:09 AM PDT by stormer
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To: GodGunsGuts

For later perusing...


9 posted on 09/28/2009 8:30:07 AM PDT by DrymChaser (It's amateur hour at the White House, unfortunately it means Curtains for America.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Poor Charles at LGF has gone completely around the bend over the Christian assault on ‘science’. With the example of
the population bomb-acid rain-alar apples-global warming-drive over 35 miles per hour and your head will fly off-climate change ‘science’ one would think a little modesty is called for from our ‘scientists’


10 posted on 09/28/2009 8:34:36 AM PDT by Hans
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To: Natural Law
In hundreds of posts on the same subject you have never addressed the fact that if natural selection and evolution exist they were created by God. And if they were created by God He might have used them.

Natural selection was developed by Edward Blythe, a creationist. There is no problem with understanding it as a conservative force that slows down entropy in a fallen world.

You need to define what you mean by "evolution." There are a wide array of dynamic genetic effects going on over time in God's created world. If we simply define any and all genetic changes over time as "evolution" then yes, evolution happens.

But if you mean that God "used" blind chance processes combined with natural selection to generate life, then you are going against both Scripture and science. Science shows such processes are wholly incompentent to produce all but the most trivial effects. Even the 'interesting' cases such as penicillin resistance, warfarin resistance, malaria resistance and so on are fluke side effects of damaging mutations, not constructive changes at the biomolecular/systems level.

Ultimately, accusing God of relying on 'evolution' as most people understand it, is accusing God of being a clumsy, incompetent butcher who uses death and suffering to accomplish his ends - prior to the Fall of man. Atheists like David Hull (in his classic article God of the Galapagos) understand this and rightly reject such a demonic 'god.'

11 posted on 09/28/2009 8:37:04 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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To: Natural Law

Macro-evolution does not exist, because God created the Universe and everything in it fully formed and fully functional over the course of six normal length Earth days. Natural selection as a creative force also does not exist, because God created the Universe and everything in it fully formed and fully functional over the course of six normal length Earth days.


12 posted on 09/28/2009 8:43:02 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: fishtank
Actually, all of his books talk about the eventual demise of the less evolved groups of people on the earth, but the Origin of the Species is the leader in that race. The whole title is:

“On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.”

13 posted on 09/28/2009 8:44:46 AM PDT by wbarmy (Hard core, extremist, and right-wing is a little too mild for my tastes.)
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To: stormer

Get used to laymen increasingly getting in the face of the Temple of Darwin.


14 posted on 09/28/2009 8:45:31 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Thanks again, GGG. I gonna blow these two babies up and put 'em on the wall in my office -

Of course I'll have to make room by taking down the pictures of Darwin and Wallace. But now that Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort have tossed the Theory of Evolution into the trashbin of history, I'll be happy to!

15 posted on 09/28/2009 8:49:22 AM PDT by stormer
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To: GodGunsGuts

That’s not remotely a scientific argument.


16 posted on 09/28/2009 8:53:43 AM PDT by Borges
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


17 posted on 09/28/2009 8:53:55 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: GodGunsGuts

18 posted on 09/28/2009 8:53:58 AM PDT by stormer
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To: GodGunsGuts
"God created the Universe and everything in it fully formed and fully functional over the course of six normal length Earth days."

There is no such thing is a "normal earth day" as a constant period of time. The day is measurably longer today than is was even 100 years ago die to things like tidal acceleration. Your perception of God is that He is bound by the limits of your understanding. God is timeless. He always was and always will be. Linear time is an artifact of the limitations of human perception. In God's creation process time, as you perceive and measure it, is only a witness.

Natural selection as a creative force also does not exist"

If and only if you consider "Nature" to be something other than a construct of God.

19 posted on 09/28/2009 9:12:15 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: stormer

Where does the Bible teach that dinos were domesticated? Typical liar for Darwin.


20 posted on 09/28/2009 9:12:44 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts (c)
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An “intelligent creator” (God) is responsible for creation - but the “designer” of the “ID (intelligent design) Movement” isn’t named and could be anything from an alien or aliens from outer space to [fill in the blank].

Anyhow - the Bible is a book of redemption - not a book on science containing clues for “scientifically detecting a designer”.

Evolutionary Creation: A Christian Approach to Evolution
by Denis O. Lamoureux (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Evolutionary-Creation-Christian-Approach-Evolution/dp/1556355815

(Read the customer reviews at the above link. Also see three other books by Lamoureaux at the same link)

<>

Saturday, December 13, 2008
Interview with Denis O. Lamoureux
Be sure to read this excellent interview with Denis O. Lamoureux, author of Evolutionary Creationism.
http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/na.cgi?nationalupdates/031120evolution

<>

Mike Beidler said...
....Lamoureux just emailed me an updated definition of evolutionary creationism and gave me permission to post. Here goes:

Evolutionary creation asserts that God created the universe and life through an ordained, sustained, and design-reflecting evolutionary process. This position fully embraces both the religious beliefs of biblical Christianity and the scientific theories of cosmological, geological, and biological evolution.

It contends that the Creator established and maintains the laws of nature, including the mechanisms of a teleological evolution.

Notably, this view of origins argues that humanity evolved from pre-human ancestors, and through this process the Image of God and human sin were gradually and mysteriously manifested. Evolutionary creationists experience God’s love and presence in their lives, and they enjoy a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus that includes miraculous signs and wonders.

The category evolutionary creation might seem like a contradiction in terms. This indeed would be the case if the words evolution and creation were restricted to their popular meanings.

That is, if the former is conflated with a dysteleological worldview, and if the latter refers exclusively to young-earth creation. But this Christian approach to evolution employs professional definitions and moves beyond the evolution vs. creation dichotomy.

The most important word in this category is the noun creation.

Evolutionary creationists are first and foremost thoroughly committed and unapologetic creationists. They believe that the universe is a creation that is absolutely dependent for its every instant of existence on the will and grace of the Creator.

The qualifying word in this category is the adjective evolutionary, indicating the method through which God created the world. This view of origins is often referred to as “theistic evolution.” However, that word arrangement places the process of evolution as the primary term, and makes the Creator secondary as only a qualifying adjective. Such an inversion in priority is unacceptable to me and other evolutionary creationists.

Another reason for the category evolutionary creation is that the word theistic carries such a wide variety of meanings today. Derived from theos, the common Greek word for god, the proper definition of theism refers to a personal God, like the God of Christianity. But as everyone knows, there is a countless number of different gods.

Therefore, the term evolutionary creation distinguishes conservative Christians who love Jesus and accept evolution from the evolutionary interpretations of deists (belief in the impersonal god-of-the-philosophers), pantheists (everything is god), panentheists (the world is god’s body and god is the world’s mind/soul), new-age pagans (a divine force in nature), and liberal Christians (Jesus is only an enlightened human and he never rose physically from the dead). - Monday, 15 December, 2008

More: http://www.thecreationofanevolutionist.blogspot.com/2008/12/interview-with-denis-o-lamoureux.html

bttt


21 posted on 09/28/2009 9:17:00 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (A Socialist becomes a Fascist the minute he tries to enforce his "beliefs" on the rest of us.)
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To: Natural Law

There is no getting around it, the Bible describes each day of creation as a normal length Earth day.


22 posted on 09/28/2009 9:17:24 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Natural Law

“There is no such thing is a “normal earth day” as a constant period of time. The day is measurably longer today than is was even 100 years ago die to things like tidal acceleration.” ~ Natural Law

As always, it all comes back to Batman, doesn’t it? bttt
http://onecosmos.blogspot.com/

Scroll down to:
Sunday, September 27, 2009
Holy History, B’atman, We’re Surrounded by Jokers!


23 posted on 09/28/2009 9:27:32 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (A Socialist becomes a Fascist the minute he tries to enforce his "beliefs" on the rest of us.)
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To: Borges; GodGunsGuts
That’s not remotely a scientific argument.

That's because GGG has gone beyond science. He's a metascientist, specializing in ignorance and nonsense.

24 posted on 09/28/2009 9:27:38 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: Liberty1970

[[Natural selection was developed by Edward Blythe, a creationist. There is no problem with understanding it as a conservative force that slows down entropy in a fallen world.

You need to define what you mean by “evolution.” There are a wide array of dynamic genetic effects going on over time in God’s created world. If we simply define any and all genetic changes over time as “evolution” then yes, evolution happens.

But if you mean that God “used” blind chance processes combined with natural selection to generate life, then you are going against both Scripture and science. Science shows such processes are wholly incompentent to produce all but the most trivial effects. Even the ‘interesting’ cases such as penicillin resistance, warfarin resistance, malaria resistance and so on are fluke side effects of damaging mutations, not constructive changes at the biomolecular/systems level.

Ultimately, accusing God of relying on ‘evolution’ as most people understand it, is accusing God of being a clumsy, incompetent butcher who uses death and suffering to accomplish his ends - prior to the Fall of man. Atheists like David Hull (in his classic article God of the Galapagos) understand this and rightly reject such a demonic ‘god.’ ]]

Excellent post- worth reposting (Not that anyoen will even blink- but it’s worth repeating- Macroevolution is a biologically, chemically, naturally, and mathematically impossible hypothesis- yet peopel ignore all that, ignore God’s word (Heck, even goign so far as to deny it’s God’s word, but rather just a work by ‘good men’ about ‘good things’,) and still claim ‘God could have used evolution’- Yep- God allowed soem scientifically impossible ‘natural process’ occure because He apaprently wasn’t powerful enough to userp nature himself- He left it to nature to violate it’s own laws- thus making Nature a more powerful god than God is apparently- Those callign htemselves ‘theistic evolutionists’ would apparently rather put their faith in an omnipotent nature than in in Omnipotent God


25 posted on 09/28/2009 9:29:10 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Get used to laymen increasingly getting in the face of the Temple of Darwin.

If there's a Temple of Darwin, why was his theory of Pangenesis rejected?

26 posted on 09/28/2009 9:29:51 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: Natural Law

[[There is no such thing is a “normal earth day” as a constant period of time. The day is measurably longer today than is was even 100 years ago die to things like tidal acceleration.]]

Psssst- a ‘day’ is still a cycle of one dark and light passing- whether it’s 18 hours, or 24 hours, God taleked about a day and night cycle in creation- a normal length day is dawn till next dawn


27 posted on 09/28/2009 9:33:44 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: GodGunsGuts
God created the Universe and everything in it fully formed and fully functional over the course of six normal length Earth days.

Then why do we see evidence of two whole genome duplications in all vertebrates?

28 posted on 09/28/2009 9:37:01 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
There is no getting around it, the Bible describes each day of creation as a normal length Earth day.

There is nothing in the bible that defines a day (yom) as being a constant 24 hours or 86,400 seconds. It is the interval between sunrise and sunrise, there is no greater precision cited. As recently as 1999–2005 the average annual length of the mean solar day in excess of 86,400 SI seconds has varied between 0.3 ms and 1 ms.

29 posted on 09/28/2009 9:39:03 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts

“There is no getting around it, the Bible describes each day of creation as a normal length Earth day.”

That is the same thing as someone (living in the 21st century) saying, “Evolution is a fact. It’s set forth in `Origin of the Species.’

The both beg the question. Nevertheless, another entertaining thread G-man.


30 posted on 09/28/2009 9:45:12 AM PDT by tumblindice (Just ask me and I'll tell you.)
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To: Moonman62

Please explain.


31 posted on 09/28/2009 9:46:12 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Natural Law
Are you saying that yom never refers to a normal length Earth day in the Bible?
32 posted on 09/28/2009 9:47:24 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: CottShop
Psssst- a ‘day’ is still a cycle of one dark and light passing- whether it’s 18 hours, or 24 hours, God taleked about a day and night cycle in creation- a normal length day is dawn till next dawn

So if God created the sun on the fourth day, how were the first three days measured?

33 posted on 09/28/2009 9:54:36 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: Matchett-PI
"Holy History, B’atman, We’re Surrounded by Jokers!"

Attempting to refute hard science with opinion isn't very convincing.

34 posted on 09/28/2009 9:59:00 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts

35 posted on 09/28/2009 10:03:56 AM PDT by mc6809e
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To: mc6809e

YEEEEHAAAA!


36 posted on 09/28/2009 10:08:34 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: Natural Law

“Attempting to refute hard science with opinion isn’t very convincing.” ~ Natural Law

Attempting to comment on something one hasn’t read and worse, jumping to erronious conclusions as a result, doesn’t speak well of one.


37 posted on 09/28/2009 10:09:20 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (A Socialist becomes a Fascist the minute he tries to enforce his "beliefs" on the rest of us.)
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To: CottShop

Considering that the Sun wasn’t created until the 4th day, you are correct, the first three days were definitely not solar days. If you read Bereshis (Genesis) with more detail, he created the first day by separating the light from the darkness. His light (Shekinah Glory) filled the Universe and was the source of all light.


38 posted on 09/28/2009 10:36:51 AM PDT by richardtavor
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To: GodGunsGuts
"Are you saying that yom never refers to a normal length Earth day in the Bible?

I am saying that it refers to the time interval between sunrise and sunrise or from dusk to dusk. The ancient Hebrews lacked any means or ability to measure time with any greater precision than yesterday, today, and tomorrow, with the day divided up vaguely with descriptions such as midday, midnight, and half-night.

I suppose you could argue that a day is standard except when it isn't or you would be hard pressed to explain Joshua 10:13 where the sun stood still and the moon stopped, time ran backwards for Hezekiah (2 Kings 20:9-11). I mean, why would you concede that God could and did manipulate time in one instance, but not for creation.

39 posted on 09/28/2009 10:38:32 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts

It can be a normal day. There are 4 definitions for Yom in the book of Bereshis (Genesis). A day can mean any length of day that has light and darkness, a solar day, a reference to a previous time (i.e. in my Father’s day), or simply an undesignated length of time (a day of reflection, etc.) Several study bibles will list these options in the footnotes. I firmly believe, as He states, that He is the Creator of all things. Since we are bound by the restraints of this world, it is difficult, if not impossible for us to visualize things from G-d’s perspective, and we cannot contain G-d’s knowledge in our limited mental capacity.


40 posted on 09/28/2009 10:46:58 AM PDT by richardtavor
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To: GodGunsGuts

Peer reviewed Scientific PROOF?


41 posted on 09/28/2009 11:26:31 AM PDT by Wacka
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To: Natural Law; richardtavor
Food for thought:

How Long Were the Days of Genesis 1?

42 posted on 09/28/2009 11:54:29 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Two whole genome duplications means that vertebrates were the result of a smaller genome that was duplicated twice. In other words, vertebrates weren’t fully formed and fully functional all at once, or over a period of six days.


43 posted on 09/28/2009 12:05:15 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
"How long were the days of Genesis I?"

That is about as specific as asking 'how long is a piece of string?' and expecting a precise answer. They were one day long (one complete light/dark cycle). Since the Hebrews didn't even have a word for an hour, minute or second, or any means of measuring it, implying that it had any relevance is asinine.

Because God is omnipotent He has the ability to manipulate time as you perceive it. He has revealed to us his ability and willingness to do in Joshua 10:13 where the sun stood still and the moon stopped, and in 2 Kings 20:9-11 where time ran backwards for Hezekiah. God is not bound or constrained by time as you perceive and measure it. Do not forget that both Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 tell us that for God a 1000 years is like a day and a day like 1000 years.

44 posted on 09/28/2009 12:18:11 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Moonman62

Did you or any scientist you know of witness these genome duplications taking place?


45 posted on 09/28/2009 12:24:52 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Did you or any scientist you know of witness these genome duplications taking place?

No. Did you see me typing in my response to you?

46 posted on 09/28/2009 12:49:11 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Darwinism: Survival of the fittest, where the weak of any species are, and should be, left to die because they will weaken the whole species.

Creationism: Where there is a Creator that has made in his own image man, where man creates from what God has lent them; cures for the survival of the weak so they too can contribute to mankind.

What to choose, what to choose…

47 posted on 09/28/2009 12:49:42 PM PDT by celmak
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To: GodGunsGuts

I see you’re back to editing the article titles for bait value.


48 posted on 09/28/2009 12:51:22 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Moonman62

Know, I did not. But I have watched how real time responses get generated on Free Republic thousands of times. How many times have whole genome duplications been observed in real time?


49 posted on 09/28/2009 12:52:55 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Natural Law
There are indeed words in Hebrew that denote a shorter period of time than a day. But the point here is how do we determine what yom means in Genesis 1:1-11. And along those lines, I asked you if it is your contention that yom never means a normal length Earth day in the Bible? Could you please answer the question.
50 posted on 09/28/2009 12:56:05 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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