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Oklahoma City Bombing & the Number Four
SOP ^ | September 29th, 2009 11:42 EST | Rob Roy

Posted on 09/29/2009 4:29:06 PM PDT by null and void

April 19, 1995 9:02 a.m. The Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was bombed, killing 168 people [including 19 children]. Hundreds were injured -- some reports exceed four hundred. It was the worst terror attack on U.S. soil at the time. President Clinton was on the scene within days trying to ease their grief. It was widely reported that militia movement sympathizer, Timothy McVeigh, with the assistance of Terry Nichols, had blown the building up in retaliation for the Waco Massacre. The President blamed "hate radio" for whipping McVeigh up. There was talk of regulating free speech while conservatives distanced themselves from McVeigh as much as possible.

Army vet Timothy McVeigh was executed on June 11, 2001. Nichols was condemned to a life sentence. Case closed, right? Not exactly. I`m like most Americans, trying to focus on other matters. But I was confronted with something last night:

According to reports, Utah attorney Jesse Trentadue is claiming the FBI edited some security camera videotapes on the morning of the Oklahoma City bombing. "

Quoting the AP, the report went on that four cameras in four different locations blanked out simultaneously on the morning of April 9, 1995 ".

Trentadue: The interesting thing is they spring back on after 9:02. The absence of footage from these crucial time intervals is evidence that there is something there that the FBI doesn`t want anybody to see. The real story is what`s missing. "

The FBI has been dragging this investigation out for a suspiciously long time, reluctant to release these recordings. Their contrariness made Jesse Trentadue [and others] suspicious. Like pulling teeth, the Courts finally forced the FBI to relent, and now there is this coincidence ".

Trentadue takes this matter personally. His brother, Kenneth Trentadue, was reported dead in August of 1995 [Oklahoma City Federal Transfer Center]. Official cause of death was suicide. But it is Jesse Trentadue`s opinion that guards beat his brother to death. The suicide ", by the way, included forty one wounds and bruises. [FoxNews reported that Kenneth Trentadue`s family was awarded a $1.1 million lawsuit.]

Trentadue also sought documents from the CIA but was barred by national security interests. [Maybe he should ask Sandy Berger to get the documents. Doesn`t he have clearance again?]

Now FoxNews is now reporting this:

Attorney: Oklahoma City Bombing Tapes Appear Edited

Long-secret security tapes showing the chaos immediately after the 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building are blank in the minutes before the blast and appear to have been edited ... " [snip]

Trentadue: "It`s taken a lawsuit and years to get the tapes ... The more important thing they show is what they don`t show. These cameras would have shown the various roads and approaches to the Murrah Building."

[end of snips]

-----

I find the number, "four", interesting. There was one name that kept haunting me about the bombing, Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, USAF (Ret.). The general`s knowledge of bomb damage and explosives is rare. He laid out a compelling case that there were actually four small charges detonated during the OKC bombing. His impressive bio is an open book and can be found here: http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6688 http://www.brasscheck.com/OKBOMB/partinres.html

I did not want to believe him. If what Gen. Partin said is true, then we are confronted with one of the biggest scandals of the 20th Century, and possibly the biggest known. But four tampered cameras tie in too well with four small charges in the building. Coincidence? Maybe. But are they related?

In a letter to Senator Lott, Gen. Partin wrote this: "Evidence shows that the massive destruction was primarily the result of four demolition charges placed at critical structural points at the third floor level."

Gen. Partin was suspicious of the hasty way that the crime scene was contaminated in the name of "closure" for Oklahoma City. He wrote: "It is truly unfortunate that a separate and independent bomb damage assessment was not made during the cleanup, before the building was demolished on May 23 and hundreds of truck loads of debris were hauled away, smashed down, and covered with dirt behind a security fence."

Bomb Damage Analysis Of Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building

July 30, 1995
Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, USAF (Ret.)

At the bottom of the page, Gen. Partin also received a letter of support from from Rodger A. Raubach Ph.D. Here are a few snippets:

"I took the liberty of checking with the leading concrete supplier in my area in order to confirm the compressive yield figure that you used, that being 3500 psi. What I was told about concrete was very interesting ... In conclusion, General, I find myself in awe of the technical achievement that your report represents." [snip]

A similar summary by Gen. Partin can be found here

[Taking a couple sentences from there ...]

"First, blast through air is a very inefficient energy coupling mechanism against heavily reinforced concrete beams and columns. Second, blast damage potential initially falls off more rapidly than an inverse function of the distance cubed. That is why in conventional weapons development, one seeks accuracy over yield for hard targets." [snip]

That is just a sample of how he gets into the nitty-gritty of demolitions physics. The bottom line is that you can look at a bomb site and see what kind of detonations took place. I`ll try to simplify. If there is a rapid shift in the damage, that means it was a small contact explosive. If the damage is more even, that would be the distant impact of a huge bomb.

--------------

Letter from Gen. Partin to U.S. Sen. Trent Lott
Benton K. Partin Brigadier Gen. USAF (Ret.)

Sen. Trent Lott
United States Senate
487 Senate Russell Office Building
Washington, DC 20510-2403

Dear Sen. Lott:

The attached report contains conclusive proof that the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, was not caused solely by the truck bomb. Evidence shows that the massive destruction was primarily the result of four demolition charges placed at critical structural points at the third floor level.

Weapons Experience: I do not offer such an analytical conclusion lightly. I have spent 25 years in research, design, development, test and management of weapons development. This included: handson work at the Ballistic Research Laboratories; Commander of the Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory, and ultimately management responsibility for almost every nonnuclear weapon device in the Air Force (at the Air Force System command, Air Staff and the Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD) levels). I was also the first chairman of the OSD joint service Air Munitions Requirements and Development Committee. (A more detailed resume appears at Tab 1.)

Observations in Oklahoma City: To verify earlier analysis, I visited Oklahoma City during the last week of June. There I had the opportunity to view hundreds of photographs taken throughout the cleanup operation as the layers of debris were cleared away. The photos present irrefutable evidence that at least four demolition charges were set off at four critical columns of the reinforced concrete structure at the floor level of the third floor.

Conclusion: Based on my experience in weapons development and bomb damage analysis, and on my review of all evidence available, I can say, with a high level of confidence, that the damage pattern on the reinforced concrete superstructure could not possibly have been attained from the single truck bomb. The total incompatibility of this pattern of destruction with a single truck bomb lies in the simple, incontrovertible fact that some of the columns collapsed that should not have collapsed if the damage were caused solely by a truck bomb, and, conversely, some of the columns were left standing that should have collapsed if the damage had been caused solely by the truck bomb.

It is my hope and request that, as a Member of Congress, you will support a Congressional investigation to determine the true initiators of this bombing, which could not have occurred the way in which it has been portrayed as having happened. Further, it is requested that you defer action and reserve judgment on socalled antiterrorism legislation that has serious civil liberties implications, and which would not be passed except for the Oklahoma City bombing until the causes of the Oklahoma City disaster are determined by independent investigators.

Both the Federal Building in Oklahoma and the Trade Center in New York (See New York Times, October 28, 1993, p. A1) show evidence of a counterterrorism sting gone wrong.

No government law enforcement agency should be permitted to demolish, smash and bury evidence of a counterterrorism sting operation, sabotage or terrorist attack without a thorough examination by an independent, technically competent agency.

If an aircraft crashed because of a bomb, or a counterterrorism sting or an FAA Controller error, the FAA would not be permitted to gather and bury the evidence. The National Transportation Safety Board would have been called in to conduct an investigation and where possible every piece of debris would have been collected and arrayed to determine cause of failure.

To remove all ambiguity with respect to the use of supplementary demolition charges, the FBI should be required to release the high quality surveillance color TV camera tape of the Murrah building bombing on April 19, 1995.

It is my observation that the effort required to bomb the A. P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City pales in comparison with the effort to cover up evidence in Oklahoma and the media`s withholding of vital information from the American people.

Sincerely yours,

Benton K. Partin Brigadier Gen. USAF (Ret.)

------

Now when I think of the Oklahoma City Bombing, I will ponder the number, four ".


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: okcbombing
The government? Lie? Nahhhh...
1 posted on 09/29/2009 4:29:06 PM PDT by null and void
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To: null and void

Klinton also covered up flight 800.
Read the book ‘The third man’


2 posted on 09/29/2009 4:38:27 PM PDT by longfellow (Bill Maher, the 21st hijacker.)
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To: null and void

Haven’t we all known this for years?


3 posted on 09/29/2009 4:39:34 PM PDT by babygene
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To: null and void; Neil E. Wright

Bump and ping


4 posted on 09/29/2009 4:41:10 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: dcwusmc

Bush should have investigated the investigation as well as Waco and flight 800 to find out if there were laws broken./s


5 posted on 09/29/2009 4:52:33 PM PDT by BilLies
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To: BilLies

I sure won’t argue with you, though Bush was pretty reluctant to investigate ANYTHING done by the Bent One. Unlike Obambi, re: Bush.


6 posted on 09/29/2009 4:54:41 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: BilLies

Oh no, Bush just wanted to move forward and maybe honor Bill and HIllary.
I’m sure that whatever happened during clintoon administration
has been whitewashed. Look at Sandy Burgler.


7 posted on 09/29/2009 4:57:05 PM PDT by gussiefinknottle (woof!woof!woof!)
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To: null and void
It was widely reported that militia movement sympathizer, Timothy McVeigh, with the assistance of Terry Nichols,

Never mind the pesky little fact that some of the first calls to the FBI about McVeigh came from the Michigan Militia.
8 posted on 09/29/2009 5:06:45 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: longfellow

And Sandy Berger stuffing classified documents during the 911 commission hearings. Nah, Clinton would never cover up.


9 posted on 09/29/2009 5:07:04 PM PDT by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: cripplecreek

Yeah. And the simple fact that one of these “White Supremacists” was married to a Filipina...


10 posted on 09/29/2009 5:15:10 PM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 251 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: null and void
Gen. Partin was suspicious of the hasty way that the crime scene was contaminated in the name of "closure" for Oklahoma City.

I knew the instant I heard that they bulldozed the building precisely to close the door on forensic investigations of the bomb site.

I do not doubt it for a moment. Have you ever heard of any such thing as this? They bulldozed it before they had time to analyze the crime scene. Incredible. And nobody said a word about it, nobody in officialdom that is.

11 posted on 09/29/2009 5:16:31 PM PDT by marron
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To: null and void
Yeah. And the simple fact that one of these “White Supremacists” was married to a Filipina...

That was his second wife, I beleve the first was hispanic.
12 posted on 09/29/2009 5:17:26 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: null and void

Orly Taitz, paging Attorney Taitz.


13 posted on 09/29/2009 5:17:43 PM PDT by awake-n-angry
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To: marron

Rubble in Waco was handled similarly.

Wonder why?

On Clintonista’s Watch.


14 posted on 09/29/2009 5:28:28 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may. -Sam Houston)
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To: null and void

General Partin might have meant well, but his analysis of the Murrah bombing is as laughable as Rosie O’Donnell’s theories of 9-11. (”Fire can’t melt steel!”)

There may be a cover-up of the evidence, but not for the reasons given by Partin.


15 posted on 09/29/2009 5:38:59 PM PDT by BigBobber
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To: null and void
My analysis agreed with Ben's (we shared notes) -- except that I postulated a mechanism which could have caused failure of the interior column as a result of lateral floor-beam thrust during collapse of the main (200 foot-long, 5 foot-high and 3 foot-thick) "Main Header Beam" across the third floor.

Therefore, I only published three likely sites for "cutting charges" -- at the junctions of the three failed exterior columns and the header. (The concrete at those junctures was completely missing (leaving two-foot gaps)- and the "cuts" were amazingly clean. Nothing was left there but rebar.


Structural elements with missing concrete.
(The hatched section was probably hauled away.)

Yes, there was a significant explosion in the Ryder truck. But no one has yet to explain how a single air blast cleanly sliced that monstrous header beam into 40-foot sections -- and left the sections between columns totally unscathed.

Remember that several witnesses reported feeling the building shake before the big explosion. One of them had time to duck under her desk -- thinking it was an earthquake.

I agree with Trentadue that the missing portions of those tapes are what is really important.

16 posted on 09/29/2009 7:19:38 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: All

The computer graphic in #16 is my creation. I hold the copyright. Do not copy or distribute it.


17 posted on 09/29/2009 7:23:07 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: babygene
No surprise to me. I knew this a long time ago (so long I forgot how long).
18 posted on 09/29/2009 7:25:51 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof. V for victory)
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To: BigBobber
"General Partin might have meant well, but his analysis of the Murrah bombing is as laughable as Rosie O’Donnell’s theories of 9-11. "

And your superior expertise and the privileged knowledge that supports your pronouncement is...?

19 posted on 09/29/2009 7:29:47 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: TXnMA
I routinely witness ANFO explosions in mining. I think most “experts” under rate the power of it when it is wielded in the hands of guys who do it all the time. Mines routinely move 1,000 tons of overburden with a ton or so of charge. Very impressive stuff.
20 posted on 09/29/2009 7:30:48 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof. V for victory)
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To: null and void

bookmark


21 posted on 09/29/2009 7:45:50 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (Resident Obama: Not a President, not a Citizen, living here but from somewhere else...)
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To: mad_as_he$$
"Mines routinely move 1,000 tons of overburden with a ton or so of [ANFO] charge."

I agree -- BUT those charges are confined within boreholes -- in direct contact with the material they are "pushing around".

They are not acting via air blast coupling -- at distances of over 50 feet -- to selectively pulverize small sections of concrete (leaving the intervening surfaces undamaged).

22 posted on 09/29/2009 7:50:18 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: null and void

Let us not forget that pieces were still hitting the ground an it was widely reported that some middle-eastern looking folks were seen running from the scene.


23 posted on 09/29/2009 8:10:33 PM PDT by Clay Moore (Obama: A good example of why stupid people shouldn't vote.)
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To: TXnMA
The attached report contains conclusive proof that the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, was not caused solely by the truck bomb. Evidence shows that the massive destruction was primarily the result of four demolition charges placed at critical structural points at the third floor level.

The government placed charges on only four critical points of the third floor to mimic the explosion of the truck bomb, rather than put in enough take down the whole building?

Are you kidding? This is moonbat logic.

24 posted on 09/29/2009 11:38:05 PM PDT by BigBobber
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To: null and void; All

http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1413833#1413833

Well, FYI, and FWIW, here are some very old files- they take up to 10 or 20 “reload” or F5’s to come up, but they are still on FR:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/767803/posts
The OKC Bombing Roundup—
various links | 10-12-02 | The Heavy Equipment Guy

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b0534f5597c.htm
OKC Bombing Links
Published: 05-18-01 Author: the heavy equipment guy

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ae3d912268a.htm
Oklahoma City’s lost information
Published: 4/23/01 Author: Jon Dougherty

Oh!
Just for the Pure-D “H” of it?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/923304/posts
Some strange old Clinton Stuff...
various FR links | 06-04-03 | The Heavy Equipment Guy

There is an OKC bombing tie-in.


25 posted on 09/30/2009 1:04:11 AM PDT by backhoe (All across America, the Lights are going out...)
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To: BigBobber; null and void
Those are not my words. I have never addressed "Who?" or "Why?"

The only things I have said the government did at OKC were after the fact: lying, misrepresenting, concealing and falsifying evidence -- as well as generally acting the role of arrogant a$$#@73s. To that, we can now add deliberately destroying evidence (portions of the tapes preceding the bombing).

Did you even look at my graphic? On the side of the MB where the explosion(s) occcurred, the first and second floor walls were recessed -- to form a two-story-high porch. The third floor and the upper, external columns rested on the header beam.

The location of the brisant damage speaks for itself. If contact charges were used, they were placed outside the building, immediately below the third floor, against the junctions of the header beam and the external columns, and inside the porch. And, they detonated approximately four seconds before the truck bomb detonated.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

You obviously have not examined the evidence, nor have you shown that you have any qualifications to even be able to comprehend the above; I am done with you.

26 posted on 09/30/2009 4:49:42 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: backhoe

Good to see you here! Thanks for your long-term contributions...


27 posted on 09/30/2009 5:14:46 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: TXnMA

28 posted on 09/30/2009 5:17:03 AM PDT by backhoe (All across America, the Lights are going out...)
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To: backhoe
LOL!!!

Different subject: do you know what became of glorygirl?

29 posted on 09/30/2009 5:31:08 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: TXnMA
Different subject: do you know what became of glorygirl?

I remember her... her account is still open, but her last post was

The OKC Bombing Roundup-- Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:02:22 AM · 114 of 161

30 posted on 09/30/2009 5:41:29 AM PDT by backhoe (All across America, the Lights are going out...)
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To: TXnMA
You obviously have not examined the evidence, nor have you shown that you have any qualifications to even be able to comprehend the above; I am done with you.

Thanks for making my case.

"The debate is over. We don't need to debate. We are the experts."

Just like the AGW warmers!

31 posted on 09/30/2009 7:41:09 AM PDT by BigBobber
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To: BigBobber; TXnMA
"The debate is over. We don't need to debate. We are the experts."

You have brought no technical reasoning to your side of the 'debate'. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

You have, however, stooped to mockery.

Are you kidding? This is moonbat logic.

As one sitting in the audience watching this 'debate', so far, TXnMA has handed your a$$ to you...IMHO!

Also, I'd be interested to know what you make of this:

At the bottom of the page, Gen. Partin also received a letter of support from from Rodger A. Raubach Ph.D. Here are a few snippets:

"I took the liberty of checking with the leading concrete supplier in my area in order to confirm the compressive yield figure that you used, that being 3500 psi. What I was told about concrete was very interesting ... In conclusion, General, I find myself in awe of the technical achievement that your report represents." [snip]

32 posted on 09/30/2009 8:07:45 AM PDT by houeto (Long Live the Republic)
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To: houeto

I have commented before on the technical merits of General Partin’s summary report. If you search the archives you will probably find the posts.

But why go into the technical details when the conclusion of the report is absurd?

Why would the “government” take the risky action of pre-positioning small charges only on one side of the third floor of building, adjacent to the truck bomb, when they knew these charges likely would not bring down the whole building? Why leave evidence that had to be brought down in haste later on?

Why leave survivors -—the same people who might have seen the small charges being placed. People willing to kill 168 people are just as willing to kill 400 to get rid of the evidence. Total destruction would have made the case against the VRWC even better.

So why place small charges that would only mimic what the truck bomb itself would do, instead of destroying the whole building? This is the question a thoughtful person would ask.


33 posted on 09/30/2009 8:44:32 AM PDT by BigBobber
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To: houeto
Also, I'd be interested to know what you make of this:

At the bottom of the page, Gen. Partin also received a letter of support from from Rodger A. Raubach Ph.D. Here are a few snippets:

"I took the liberty of checking with the leading concrete supplier in my area in order to confirm the compressive yield figure that you used, that being 3500 psi. What I was told about concrete was very interesting ... In conclusion, General, I find myself in awe of the technical achievement that your report represents." [snip]

Anyone who has taken a basic course in concrete design knows what the compressive strength of concrete is. It's in textbooks. It's on the Internet. There is no need to contact a "leading concrete supplier" to find this out. The language used by Dr. Raubach shows he knows nothing about concrete or structural engineering, so his endorsement is worthless.

34 posted on 09/30/2009 8:51:55 AM PDT by BigBobber
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To: BigBobber
Why would the “government” take the risky action of pre-positioning small charges only on one side of the third floor of building, adjacent to the truck bomb, when they knew these charges likely would not bring down the whole building?

The "government"? Where in the world did that come from?

I'm thinking the more likely scenario that the Clinton administration would have been wanting to cover up was a complex operation in place. Would have been extremely difficult to explain how these two local yodels would know how to do something right out of a "Mission Impossible" episode.

If there is anything to hide, and clearly there is otherwise they would not have 'washed' the tapes, then I would think that would be it.

35 posted on 09/30/2009 9:16:12 AM PDT by houeto (Long Live the Republic)
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To: houeto

Please address the logic of the pre-placed small charge theory:

Why only put a few small charges on the same side as the bomb truck instead of putting them throughout the whole building to bring it all down, thereby killing more people and doing a better job of destroying the evidence?


36 posted on 09/30/2009 10:39:21 AM PDT by BigBobber
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To: BigBobber
Please address the logic of the pre-placed small charge theory:

I can't. I haven't a clue. Can you address the logic of hiding the security cameras events prior to the blast?

37 posted on 09/30/2009 10:50:56 AM PDT by houeto (I peered inside the Treasury's door, the entire safe was empty. We've been robbed!)
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To: houeto
Can you address the logic of hiding the security cameras events prior to the blast?

Yes, the government is trying to hide something. That's an important issue that shouldn't be obscured by posting Gen. Partin's dingbat theory.

Which was the whole point of my first post. Here at FR we should focus on important, real issues and not made-up whacky ones. The latter make us look foolish to outsiders.

38 posted on 09/30/2009 11:39:54 AM PDT by BigBobber
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To: backhoe

Yep, that’s why I asked... Thanks, anyway!


39 posted on 09/30/2009 12:57:54 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: BigBobber
Yes, the government is trying to hide something.

Maybe...


40 posted on 10/01/2009 9:53:16 AM PDT by houeto (I peered inside the Treasury's door, the entire safe was empty. We've been robbed!)
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To: houeto

Earlier this week, the Associated Press published an article about recently-released surveillance tapes from the area around the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Wanting to find out more about it, I sought out Jayna Davis, author of The New York Times best-selling book,”The Third Terrorist,” which chronicled her decade-long investigation of the bombing and who was behind it. In short, I became the first journalist/blogger with whom Davis has spoken about the case in four years (and she’s had countless requests for interviews).

On Tuesday, I followed up my interview of Davis with an interview of David P. Schippers, a Chicago attorney and close confidant of Davis whose background includes having served as chief investigative counsel for the Clinton Impeachment Hearings in the House and Senate. Again, I was able to publish information never before published about the missing Oklahoma City bombing surveillance tapes. All of these copyrighted pieces are available at http://bobmccarty.com.


41 posted on 10/02/2009 7:19:26 AM PDT by BobMcCartyWrites (BobMcCarty.com, Bob McCarty Writes™)
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