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An ancient textile factory? (New discoveries push human technologies back to the "earliest times")
CMI ^ | October 1, 2009 | Robert W Carter, Ph.D.

Posted on 10/01/2009 2:51:37 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

A recent report of an ancient textile facility, of sorts, is turning heads.[1] Sifting through the debris on a cave floor in the Republic of Georgia, scientists recently discovered evidence that the early cave dwellers processed textiles in the cave. While searching for ancient pollen grains, they found tiny flax fibers in the dirt. Some of these fibers were woven, some were cut, and some were dyed black, gray, turquoise, or pink. They also discovered evidence that these people were processing fur (for clothing) and animal hides.

What is surprising about the find is that this was supposedly happening 30,000 years ago (according to the C-14 dates[2] obtained from several organic samples taken from the dirt). This is prior to the advent of civilization in the evolutionary history of man. This is even prior to the invention of farming. How can primitive “cave men” have advanced textile processing skills?...

(Excerpt) Read more at creation.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archeology; belongsinreligion; catholic; caucasus; christian; creation; easterneurope; eurasia; evangelical; evolution; georgia; godsgravesglyphs; intelligentdesign; notasciencetopic; propellerbeanie; protestant; science

1 posted on 10/01/2009 2:51:38 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 10/01/2009 2:53:08 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: SunkenCiv

/mark


3 posted on 10/01/2009 2:54:09 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: GodGunsGuts
That's not all that far back. Folks were making cave paintings, had certainly invented shoes and other footware at least 70,000 years earlier, and had demonstrably worn tailored (that is, sewn together) fur outer garments thousands of years earlier.

Now, about that 6,000 year ago thing ~ ?

4 posted on 10/01/2009 2:57:21 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts

“Some of these fibers were woven, some were cut,
and some were dyed black, gray, turquoise, or pink.
They also discovered evidence that these people
were processing fur...”
-
Factory was closed - work was outsourced to neanderthals.


5 posted on 10/01/2009 3:00:45 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: GodGunsGuts

The basic reality wrt rc dating is this: It is fairly accurate back to around 2500 years ago. Nonetheless beginning several thousand years ago there was a series of catastrophes, the most major being the flood and the most recent occurring around the time of the Trojan war, in which the entire nature of the solar system was altered, and all of the assumptions which rc dating uses go straight out the window past about the time of the Trojan war.


6 posted on 10/01/2009 3:02:11 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: GodGunsGuts

I hope they were careful about their CO2 emissions....


7 posted on 10/01/2009 3:03:07 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: muawiyah

It seems the more we find out about early man, the more intelligent, and technologically savvy he becomes. Or in the words of the article, “this report of early textile technology suggests very strongly that man has always been intelligent, industrious, and inventive.” As such, the trend is definitely in the direction of biblical creation.


8 posted on 10/01/2009 3:07:13 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: muawiyah

PS Do you have any research links that date human cave paintings to 70,000 years ago???


9 posted on 10/01/2009 3:11:01 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Why did they put that dumb picture of fabric in the article and then say it wasn’t the fibers found?


10 posted on 10/01/2009 3:12:22 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault
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To: GodGunsGuts

Footwear.


11 posted on 10/01/2009 3:17:16 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts

The comparison is to the subject ~ textiles, not the items in the list to each other.


12 posted on 10/01/2009 3:18:25 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts; muawiyah

There is tons of it.. you just have your fingers stuck in your ears, and your eyes slammed shut again.


13 posted on 10/01/2009 3:18:44 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: wendy1946

LOL!!!!!!


14 posted on 10/01/2009 3:19:30 PM PDT by Wacka
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To: muawiyah

You said paintings comma footware 70,000 years ago. BTW, I looked up footwear, and according to the leftist, evo-atheist, anti-semitic, climate alarmists over at National Geographic, supportive footwear was not invented until around 30,000 years ago. Are you just talking about insulation for one’s feet, or are you claiming supportive footwear emerged 70,000 years ago as well?


15 posted on 10/01/2009 3:26:12 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Right Wing Assault
Why did they put that dumb picture of fabric in the article and then say it wasn’t the fibers found?

Especially when the original report had this:


16 posted on 10/01/2009 3:27:36 PM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: xcamel

Who knows, maybe there are some anti-science, Temple of Darwin fanatics who make that claim, but I have yet to see anyone produce any links...including you.


17 posted on 10/01/2009 3:28:34 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

How vapid.


18 posted on 10/01/2009 3:29:09 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (ALSO SPRACH ZEROTHUSTRA)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

Looking in the mirror again I see.


19 posted on 10/01/2009 3:31:18 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
Hm. Showed up on Preview. Anyway, the Daily Mail has a, shall we say, better picture.
20 posted on 10/01/2009 3:32:55 PM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: GodGunsGuts
Here's the clue ~ most of the big changes in human behavior or fundamental genetic capacity that make cities, states and empires possible occurred only since the end of the last Ice Age (about 17,000 years ago).

Before that time human beings were still plenty smart but they were restricted to hunting and gathering, and even if not truly nomadic, found it difficult to build large settlements ~ a large settlement being more than a few hundred families.

It has been regularly speculated that people were building cities and towns before 17000 years ago, but they are covered up with Ocean ~ and that may be true, but the evidence for that is really, really thin.

As we recall in our Sunday school lessons Cain and Abel competed for God's favor. Cain farmed and Abel herded.

That right there puts a time-limit on all the Biblical stories except that of Adam and Eve. Even though the lesson is about "first fruits" versus "just any old thing", the subtext for modern people is that both herding ~ that is, domestication of camels had already happened, and farming ~ that is the planting of domesticated seed, not just the spreading of collected wild seed ~ had also happened.

With 10,000 years ago being the earliest for domesticated plants, including the fig (which was FIRST), the usual age for the first domesticated large animals is given as about 8,500 years ago ~ which is probably in error for most of them ~ eg. the horse was probably domesticated as a small meat animal for several thousand years, then bred into larger forms until finally about 3500 years ago it was big enough to carry a rider. Turkeys "domesticated themselves" on their first day of encountering American Indians, and that is at most about 17,000 years ago.

Recently it was reported that camels are probably the first large animal to be domesticated.

What this is leading us to is that Cain offered up some tooth rottingly great figs to God, Who rejected them (recalling that Adam and Eve were using the plant as clothing), and Abel brought out a nice roasted camel carcass.

The choice was obvious eh!

21 posted on 10/01/2009 3:43:30 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts
Ever wonder what happened to your large grasping toe?

Don't have one eh?!

Well, that's because the genes that regulate our foot design have been "adjusted" to accommodate footwear. It has been hypothesized that the USE of footwear began the selection process (or management process) for alleles that optimized that shape for the use of footwear.

Now, supportive footwear? Who knows. But regarding the use of SNOWSHOES, that process should have taken hold among humans at the Northern limits of the Temperate zone at the beginning of the last glacial period. That's exactly when such footwear (plus socks and wrappings) would have begun to make sense.

Before that time all the evidence indicates that OUR LINE of human beings lived further South, and maybe even in South Africa, where the Temperate zone would have been much closer to the Equator (due to the open Ocean to the South that allowed rip-roaring nasty Antarctic storms to beat that coast to pieces.

The DNA researchers come up with the 100,000 year thing as well.

Further refinements have occurred in the footbones of those living in the Arctic ~ their "design accommodation" includes assumption of the use of the Rat Trap on Skis.

22 posted on 10/01/2009 3:52:21 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: xcamel
Actually, there's aserious shortage of "evidence" ~ but that doesn't mean none exists. There's even evidence that people were drilling holes in shells to string as beads way back hundreds of thousands of years ago.

There are, on the other hand, no cave paintings that anyone has found that go back 70,000 years ~ not even in Australia ~ where the first modern humans arrived some time later than that

23 posted on 10/01/2009 3:59:19 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts

glad our march backwards has something to look forward to.


24 posted on 10/01/2009 4:08:44 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Isn't the Golden Mean the secret to something," I parried? "Yes," Blue replied. "Mediocrity.")
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To: GodGunsGuts

So that’s how long it took to recover from the last Obama style administration.


25 posted on 10/01/2009 4:09:55 PM PDT by Steamburg ( Your wallet speaks the only language most politicians understand.)
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To: GodGunsGuts; metmom; MrB; Agamemnon; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; count-your-change; editor-surveyor; ...

“Actually, there’s a serious shortage of “evidence” ~ but that doesn’t mean none exists”.

Two evo apologists on full display...

and with a complete straight face, they’ll turn right around and demand evidence, or exclaim there’s no evidence, etc.!

Worthy of bookmarking...

the hypocrite liberal evo-cult in a nutshell! LOL!


26 posted on 10/01/2009 5:17:46 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Woven cloth? Then some sort of loom and spinning equipment.
All of which takes some experience and understanding of the materials used.

Most interesting find, thanks for ping.


27 posted on 10/01/2009 5:30:27 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: muawiyah
Ever wonder what happened to your large grasping toe? Don't have one eh?!

Ummmm...not really, no, can't say as I have...I generally get along pretty good with my hands when it comes to grasping what I need.

28 posted on 10/01/2009 5:34:33 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

“A supposedly 1.8 million-year-old skull has been unearthed in the Republic of Georgia. It appears “primitive” and diminutive (much like the Flores Hobbit man fossils) and the date puts it prior to the Out of Africa event that supposedly led to the colonizing of the world by modern humans. This seems to be a “shot across the bow” by these scientists against the Out of Africa Theory.”

—I read this probably 10x and I still can’t figure out what his point is. As he says, the Out of Africa event is when H. sapiens left Africa and replaced H. erectus and eventually the Neandertals. The Georgian fossils push back the date for the earliest known H. erectus outside of Africa, and some believe the fossils are of a habilus/erectus intermediate or another side branch. But what on earth has that got to do with modern humans leaving Africa 1.6 million years later?

“According to most paleontologists, a division of labor that would allow some people to devote themselves to such activities is not supposed to occur until after the advent of farming…”

—That would be the field of archaeology, but anyway - no, they never thought such a thing. Decorative items, tools, houses, etc *far* older than this have *long* been known. Even Neandertals made such items. With farming and cities such items took a big leap in sophistication and quantity, however. And, of course, there are masterful cave paintings predating the time of this cloth. And actually, this cloth is apparently the new record for oldest cloth at ~30k years old, but it just barely beat out the previous record of 28k years old.

The earliest human dwellings (people living in artificial structures instead of caves) goes back to at least 200,000 years:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,835175,00.html
(Note the date of the article)

So it’s odd to put so much importance on this find.

Most paleontologists (now’s the right time for the term) don’t believe that humans have changed much, if at all, in intelligence in the past several hundred thousand years (there are some that believe that humans made some sort of leap in cognition around ~40k years ago or so due to the arrival of the cave paintings and some increases in sophistication of human artifacts, but they seem to be a small minority). So, overall, a very odd article.


29 posted on 10/01/2009 6:30:19 PM PDT by goodusername
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To: KoRn

Thanks KoRn.

Oldest-known fibers to be used by humans discovered
Harvard University Gazette | Thursday, September 10, 2009 | Amy Lavoie
Posted on 09/14/2009 9:20:55 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2339348/posts

Bank Team Supports Archaelogical Dig of 7,000-Year-Old Silk Road Find
World Bank (?) | Friday, September 11th, 2009 (estimate) | unattributed
Posted on 09/14/2009 9:08:31 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2339334/posts


30 posted on 10/01/2009 8:00:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


31 posted on 10/01/2009 9:01:32 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: SunkenCiv

Oldest known textile factory = Oldest known union rep could not be far behind.


32 posted on 10/02/2009 12:00:24 AM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: GodGunsGuts

thanks for ping/heads up..


33 posted on 10/02/2009 6:50:33 AM PDT by DollyCali (Don't tell GOD how big your storm is -- Tell the storm how B-I-G your God is!you)
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To: wendy1946

the most recent occurring around the time of the Trojan war, in which the entire nature of the solar system was altered
__________

Could you expand on that a bit? I’m a veteran of the crevo wars, but this is something I’ve not heard before.


34 posted on 10/02/2009 6:55:00 AM PDT by dmz
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To: GodGunsGuts

Certanly this region—the Caucausus — can claim lots of firsts.

As far as the carbon dating goes-—there are too many questions about it accuracy.


35 posted on 10/02/2009 9:09:31 AM PDT by eleni121 (The New Byzantium - resurrect it!)
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To: dmz
I meant to indicate that the system was altered by the entire sequence of events and not simply by the most recent piece of the sequence.

All ancient religions were astral in nature, at least at first, and the associations of planet names and names of gods and goddesses are primordial.

If you were to ask a group of primitive people in today's world to devise an astral religion from scratch, i.e. off the tops of their heads, they would invariably end up worshipping the sun and the moon, with Venus and Jupiter in (very) distant third and fourth spots. Funny thing though, the two chieftain gods in every one of those ancient astral religions were Jupiter and Saturn (Zeus and Kronos), and not the sun and moon. Plato and other Greek authors consistently refer to antediluvians as children (or nurselings) of Kronos, and Hesiod and Ovid both claim that there was once a golden age when Saturn/Kronos was "king of heaven", followed by an age when Zeus/Jupiter was king of heaven, followed by the age of the Trojan war and then the present age. In the same language, the sun is the king of heaven now.

What the ancients clearly believed was that Jupiter and Saturn had once comprised a small double star system which we were in fact part of, and that the sun later captured that system.

36 posted on 10/02/2009 12:55:24 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: wendy1946

I guess what I am asking is what do you mean when you say that the entire nature of the solar system was altered? Are you now saying that it was our (humans) view of the solar system that was altered?

Very different statements.


37 posted on 10/02/2009 1:11:37 PM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz
I guess what I am asking is what do you mean when you say that the entire nature of the solar system was altered?

I mean that the entire nature of the solar system was altered. At least that's what you get reading ancient literature. Try www.thunderbolts.info for starters.

38 posted on 10/02/2009 2:46:42 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: Ciexyz

Of course, the members would pay their dues in pieces of obsidian and dried deer meat, so...


39 posted on 10/02/2009 9:01:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: wendy1946

bump ... sounds like some of Cremo’s Forbiden archeology.


40 posted on 10/03/2009 3:23:33 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (The way to destroy a countercultural movement is to have white people start liking it.)
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