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Bones of “Ardi,” New Human Evolution Fossil, “Crushed Nearly to Smithereens” (LOL!!!)
Evolution News & Views ^ | October 2, 2009 | Casey Luskin

Posted on 10/02/2009 3:27:36 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

Bones of “Ardi,” New Human Evolution Fossil, “Crushed Nearly to Smithereens”

Another new alleged missing link has been found, if you consider something discovered in the early 1990’s new. This fossil seems to have spent almost as much time under the microscope at Berkeley as it did in the ground in Ethiopia, when it was first buried about 4.4 million years ago.

Why did it take over 15 years for the reports on this fossil to finally be published, besides the fact that it allowed more time for planning the now-customary PR campaign? A 2002 article in Science explains exactly why: the bones were so brittle, “squished,” “chalky” and “erod[ed]” when cleaned such that many of the bone fragments had to be “reconstruct[ed]”—and that took a long time. Here’s the story from more than seven years ago:

[I]n 1992, the Middle Awash Research Team, co-led by [Tim] White, made a discovery that ended Lucy’s reign. About 75 kilometers south of Lucy’s resting place, at Aramis in the Afar depression of Ethiopia, the team found fossils of a chimp-sized ape dated to about 4.4 million years ago. … The team named this species Ardipithecus ramidus, drawing on two words from the Afar language suggesting that it was humanity’s root species. But skeptics argue that the published fossils are so chimplike that they may represent the long-lost ancestor of the chimp, not human, lineage.

The next field season, team member Yohannes Haile-Selassie found the first of more than 100 fragments that make up about half of a single skeleton of this species, including a pelvis, leg, ankle and foot bones, wrist and hand bones, a lower jaw with teeth—and a skull. But in the past 8 years no details have been published on this skeleton. Why the delay? In part because the bones are so soft and crushed that preparing them requires a Herculean effort, says White. The skull is “squished,” he says, “and the bone is so chalky that when I clean an edge it erodes, so I have to mold every one of the broken pieces to reconstruct it.” The team hopes to publish in a year or so, and White claims that the skeleton is worth the wait, calling it a “phenomenal individual” that will be the “Rosetta stone for understanding bipedalism.”

(Ann Gibbons, “In Search of the First Hominids,” Science, 295:1214-1219 (February 15, 2002).)

Of course a key feature in demonstrating that an organism was bipedal is the precise shape of its pelvis. But look at what one of the current media stories on A. ramidus is reporting about the original condition of the pelvis that was discovered:
One problem is that some portions of Ardi's skeleton were found crushed nearly to smithereens and needed extensive digital reconstruction. "Tim [White] showed me pictures of the pelvis in the ground, and it looked like an Irish stew," says Walker. Indeed, looking at the evidence, different paleoanthropologists may have different interpretations of how Ardi moved or what she reveals about the last common ancestor of humans and chimps.

(Michael D. Lemonick and Andrea Dorfman, "Excavating Ardi: A New Piece for the Puzzle of Human Evolution," Time Magazine (October 1, 2009).)

The recent news report in Science recounts the same problems with the fossil:
But the team’s excitement was tempered by the skeleton’s terrible condition. The bones literally crumbled when touched. White called it road kill. And parts of the skeleton had been trampled and scattered into more than 100 fragments; the skull was crushed to 4 centimeters in height.

(Ann Gibbons, "A New Kind of Ancestor: Ardipithecus Unveiled," Science, Vol. 326:36-40 (Oct. 2, 2009).)

National Geographic put it thus:
After Ardi died, her remains apparently were trampled down into mud by hippos and other passing herbivores. Millions of years later, erosion brought the badly crushed and distorted bones back to the surface. They were so fragile they would turn to dust at a touch.
“Chalky”? “Squished”? “Badly crushed and distorted”? “Needed extensive digital reconstruction”? After all the media hype and overblown claims about importance of Ida, forgive me for having an initial reaction of skepticism. How far would you trust a “Rosetta stone” that was initially “crushed to smithereens” and “would turn to dust at a touch”?

Claims of bipedalism often depend upon precise measurements of the angles of key bones such as the pelvis, femur, and knee-bones. But if these bones were discovered in such a crushed, squished, etc. form, determining the precise contours of these bones might become a highly subjective exercise. I’m sure they spent a lot of time on their reconstructions (and it certainly sounds like they did) but at the end of the day, it’s difficult to make solid claims about extremely unsolid bones.

Anyone for some Irish stew?



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: africa; afrika; anothermissinglink; anthropology; antiscienceevos; apereligion; ardi; ardipithecusramidus; belongsinreligion; catholic; christian; corruption; creation; darwindrones; ethiopia; evangelical; evolution; intelligentdesign; moralabsolutes; notasciencetopic; paleontology; propellerbeanie; protestant; science; templeofdarwin

1 posted on 10/02/2009 3:27:37 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Indeed, looking at the evidence, different paleoanthropologists may have different interpretations of how Ardi moved or what she reveals about the last common ancestor of humans and chimps.

Yes, this thing doesn't exactly belong in the front hall of the house of Darwin. Probably goes without saying it can't yield any DNA.

2 posted on 10/02/2009 3:29:39 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Democrat party is a criminal enterprise.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Perhaps scientific discoveries are the Creator’s way of applauding our curiosity and maintaining our sense of wonder. We should never lose appreciation for our God given senses which serve to remind us that we were made in His image.

He has blessed us in so many ways - we should not be afraid to consider that perhaps we have not known everything from - or of, the beginning, but that our knowledge is evolving..on His time-table.


3 posted on 10/02/2009 3:32:47 PM PDT by sodpoodle (Never give up- Keep Up!!!)
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To: GodGunsGuts

The reconstruction was, perhaps, imaginative.


4 posted on 10/02/2009 3:33:02 PM PDT by arthurus ("If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, don't shoot an abortionist." -Ann C.)
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

All this hype for a crushed fossil that they think may have been trampled by a herd of hippos?...PLLEEEAAAAASEE!!!!

Is there no end to the lengths the evos will go to destroy their own credibility?


5 posted on 10/02/2009 3:33:38 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

I read an article that said it took them over six years to digitally reconstruct just the skull. With pieces that mangled and minute the end conclusion is inherently precarious.


6 posted on 10/02/2009 3:34:26 PM PDT by allmost
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To: sodpoodle
Perhaps scientific discoveries are the Creator’s way of applauding our curiosity and maintaining our sense of wonder. We should never lose appreciation for our God given senses which serve to remind us that we were made in His image.

Perfectly said. Thank you.

7 posted on 10/02/2009 3:34:48 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Yep, that is pretty pathetic.


8 posted on 10/02/2009 3:34:53 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: arthurus

Fake, but true.


9 posted on 10/02/2009 3:35:08 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: GodGunsGuts
"Tim [White] showed me pictures of the pelvis in the ground, and it looked like an Irish stew," says Walker.

-----------------------------------------------------

"And a fine stew it was... with a drop or two of potcheen, life was grand back then."


10 posted on 10/02/2009 3:43:18 PM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: GodGunsGuts
So what is your point? That the bones are not from a now extinct hominid, that they are not 4.4 million years old, that the reconstruction techniques are not valid, or simply that the extrapolation to any direct ancestral relationship to modern humans is erroneous?
11 posted on 10/02/2009 3:45:21 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts

The only missing link is in liberals’ denial. Pervs have attemtped to copulate with cool monkeys in the past and liberals have apparently been the result . This is a much more accurate version of the ancestry story mania of today.


12 posted on 10/02/2009 3:47:12 PM PDT by JudgemAll (control freaks, their world & their problem with my gun and my protecting my private party)
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To: Natural Law

The reconstruction would have to be painfully subjective.


13 posted on 10/02/2009 3:50:26 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Democrat party is a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Natural Law
Are you defending this find? It has embarrassment written all over it. But hey, if the evos want to push a fossil that was in such bad shape that they had to digitally reconstruct it, who am I to stand in their way...LOL!
14 posted on 10/02/2009 3:51:04 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: sodpoodle
...we should not be afraid to consider that perhaps we have not known everything from - or of, the beginning, but that our knowledge is evolving..on His time-table.

Ask the Creator about these things. Don't be afraid. It may take a while, you will get an answer.
15 posted on 10/02/2009 3:52:55 PM PDT by carumba (The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. Groucho)
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To: GodGunsGuts
A forensic reconstruction!


16 posted on 10/02/2009 3:59:47 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Didn’t you see that news article?? We didn’t come from apes, they came from us....


17 posted on 10/02/2009 4:00:02 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: GodGunsGuts
"Are you defending this find?"

Which aspect of it? This could have been the "dust of the ground" that God breathed life into.....

18 posted on 10/02/2009 4:00:29 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts

Don’t despair, friends. A new “find” that revolutionizes our understand of human ancestry occurs about every ten years.


19 posted on 10/02/2009 4:00:58 PM PDT by Nosterrex
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To: GodGunsGuts

Were not some of the Dead Sea Scrolls reconstructed using digital techniques? My impression was that it was easier to scan the fragments, and let the computer match up the pieces. Also, that method was less likely to cause damage due to repeated handling of the fragments.


20 posted on 10/02/2009 4:01:11 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: GodGunsGuts
But hey, if the evos want to push a fossil that was in such bad shape that they had to digitally reconstruct it, who am I to stand in their way...LOL!

You mean you wouldn't shut down the entire field of research, given the opportunity?

21 posted on 10/02/2009 4:07:39 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

I didn't see the claim concerning "a herd of hippos". Now that you mention it though, why not? Hence the intensive reconstruction work. It's "science". Why are you such a science denier?

Now you've done it. Just wait. You'll get yours. The defenders of science® will soon arrive to clack at you with their keyboards, to set the world once again aright...

22 posted on 10/02/2009 4:15:39 PM PDT by BlueDragon (i don't set off metal detectors at the airport, but i am part stainless...)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

23 posted on 10/02/2009 4:21:33 PM PDT by scoobysnak71 (Just a National Security Threat, trying to get a nut.)
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To: tpanther

Hey tpanther, did you get a load of this story? LOL!!!


24 posted on 10/02/2009 4:40:25 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

“Is there no end to the lengths the evos will go to destroy their own credibility?”

Well, lets see:
If YOU use this topic to discount evolution but earlier use
the same topic’s premise as evolutionary eveidence...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2353588/posts

Doesn’t that make you some kind of imbalanced lunatic?


25 posted on 10/02/2009 4:46:14 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: humblegunner
In both cases, I posted the articles to show what a bunch of class A morons the Temple of Darwin has become. But you must be sane to get the joke...otherwise the joke is on you.

I doubt you will have any memory of this, but your inability to comprehend the obvious is a clear sign that you made the ultimate sacrifice to become a Darwin-drone:


26 posted on 10/02/2009 5:05:14 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
I seem to recall “Lucy” having a crushed pelvis reconstructed, twice. And those bones were strung around over a hillside.

Ardi looks like something designed by a committee, neither able to climb or walk with any ease. How would something like that evolve?

27 posted on 10/02/2009 5:45:24 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
It evolves in the minds of those who DESPERATELY believe Darwin's evo-religious creation myth.
28 posted on 10/02/2009 5:56:40 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

I think it’s about time for another “ground breaking, paradigm changing, pushing the clock back” fossil find from China then. Something with feathers.


29 posted on 10/02/2009 7:09:29 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

LOL!...You are like a human divining rod!!!


30 posted on 10/02/2009 7:14:19 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
I’d say something about a lightening rod but won’t as usually my humor comes out wrong. But I do think the competition is going to heat up in The Peoples Fossil Factory.
31 posted on 10/02/2009 7:25:14 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
In both cases, I posted the articles to show what a bunch of class A morons the Temple of Darwin has become. But you must be sane to get the joke...otherwise the joke is on you.

How very true.

32 posted on 10/02/2009 7:38:59 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
The story gets better. From Nat Geo. in describing how the skull was “reconstructed”:

“Additional pieces were added from another skull, digitally rescaled to fit”.
(ngm.nationalgeographic.com/human-evolution/human-ancestor )

Ardi is a little old for a nip and tuck so she gets a facelift? With someone else’s face? Pieces from what or whose skull?

Well, the bones WERE trampled into the mud, but mixed with how many other animal bones, if any?

Inquiring minds and all that.

33 posted on 10/02/2009 9:44:33 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


34 posted on 10/02/2009 9:48:33 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: GodGunsGuts

Just simple math:

Finding “oldest ancestor of humans (and chimps!)” = $$$$

Finding “really old ape” = $

Oh, but not that I would dare believe that someone so pure as a scientist would dare let something like money affect their perfect scientific judgment and reasoning skills.


35 posted on 10/03/2009 6:37:04 AM PDT by ReagansShinyHair
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To: GodGunsGuts

15 years to put a jigsaw puzzle together.....definitely obsessive/compulsive and definitely NOT A.D.D........


36 posted on 10/03/2009 6:40:44 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Who's your Long Legged MacDaddy?)
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To: GodGunsGuts
"How far would you trust a “Rosetta stone” that was initially “crushed to smithereens” and “would turn to dust at a touch”?"

Fossils inherently beg the question by requiring a lot of interpretation.

Here, a lot of interpretation was incorporated into constructing a fossil that then begged the question by requiring a lot of further interpretation.

Might as well just make the whole thing up out of whole cloth...

37 posted on 10/03/2009 8:48:58 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

[[After Ardi died, her remains apparently were trampled down into mud by hippos]]

After Ardi died, her remains apparently were trampled down into mud by LAND WHALES

[[and other passing herbivores.]]

and other passing DINO-OSTRICHES.

Saw an article by the AP this AM stating that Aldi is a ‘million years older’ than Lucy, pushing our kin-line back another million years’ or soemthign equally assinine- The article all but stated that evolution is a fact, and that Aldi is more ‘us’ than ‘chimp’ or ‘ape’- and all this from a bowl full of dust and tooth fragments? Amazing! Who can doubt such irrefutable evidence?


38 posted on 10/03/2009 8:54:36 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: GourmetDan

[[Might as well just make the whole thing up out of whole cloth]]

They did! Who can doubt? It’s as clear as the calcium dust in your bones- Computers ‘don’t lie’ dontchaknow?


39 posted on 10/03/2009 8:56:30 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: count-your-change

[[Ardi looks like something designed by a committee, neither able to climb or walk with any ease. How would something like that evolve?]]

Prosthetics? Used a Hoveround? (If you do not qualify, Medicare and Medicaid may pay for the chair for you at no cost to you)


40 posted on 10/03/2009 9:09:36 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop
Bones of “Ardi,” New Human Evolution Fossil, “Crushed Nearly to Smithereens” (LOL!!!)

There were blacksmiths back then?
41 posted on 10/03/2009 9:11:52 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: HiTech RedNeck; sodpoodle

[[Yes, this thing doesn’t exactly belong in the front hall of the house of Darwin.]]

Nope- but that won’rt stop publications from putting it front and center and claming things as fact that simply were made up

[[He has blessed us in so many ways - we should not be afraid to consider that perhaps we have not known everything from -]]

He sure has, and He has also blessed us with a plethora of evidence pointign toward special creation, and blessed us with common sense, and we shoudl not be afraid of exposing wonky conclusions based on extensive digital reconstructions doen by folks so married to the hypothesis of Macroevolution that they are too biased to objectively conclude ANYTHING else but that we are supposedly related to some lower beasts.

We may not ‘know everything’ but we sure as heck do know a great deal, and we do have a great deal of evidnece showign that nature is simply incapable of Macroevolution, and that intelligent Design was needed behind specie’s complexities.


42 posted on 10/03/2009 9:23:01 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: aruanan

[[There were blacksmiths back then?]]

Technically they were called ‘metalurgical reconstruction ‘Artists’


43 posted on 10/03/2009 9:25:13 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop
Ardi looks like it/she/they a composite of whatever would make a unique skeleton. Like Nat.Geo. said, careers were made from Ardi. And, I would add, rivers of grants will flow from Ardi.

Old Ardi may need that Hoveround, she's got a lot to carry on such small shoulders.

44 posted on 10/03/2009 9:56:43 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

[[Like Nat.Geo. said, careers were made from Ardi.]]

I wonder If I can get a grant cosntructing Mr. Potato head figures from scratch?- Better yet, I’ll smash one to bits, throw 60% of it out- then reconstruct it digitally to resemble a land-whale-otomus- Bet the grant money will just come rolling in hten


45 posted on 10/03/2009 7:55:59 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

Nat. Geo. wants you!


46 posted on 10/03/2009 8:31:07 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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