Posted on 10/02/2009 9:58:24 PM PDT by Frantzie
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-reverses-course-releases-index-data-for-president-obama-stanley-ann-and-barack-sr-no-records-for-maya-exist/#comments
Looks like Maya has no COLB according to Leo's record search and the parents were married.
Well now, ain’t you the young’un! (or are you the parent?)
It’s after age 14, actually, and those are the ‘new’ (1986) rules. Maya’s situation fell under the prior 1952 requirements.
I’ve always thought it ridiculous that a 16/17 yo can leave the country, have no further dealings w/ or residency in the US (an admittedly clumsy way to measure ‘allegiance’), and have a baby 10-15 years later that is eligible for birthright citizenship.
Whether Indonesia recognized dual citizenship is irrevelent. Maya could have been both Indonesian AND American without the other country knowing about it. Indonesian laws do not affect American policy, and American laws don’t affect Indonesian policy. Even if Indonesian law forced her to renounce her American citizenship, she still would be a U.S. citizen.
Agree 110% ! When Leo first started posting these, I immediately commented on this. A few people scolded me and told me that Leo is here to “please me” ! YIKES !
I can barely see ANYTHING on his site during the day so I feel your pain...
I found that if you copy and paste the info (a few paragraphs at a time) into my e-mail account, it converts it to black on white.
Isn’t that pretty much what I said?
And why would Indonesia force Maya to renounce a citizenship you yourself admit the Indonesians would have been unaware of.
What I said was that I presumed that Maya’s mother would have claimed US citizenship for her. If Stanley Ann had not done so, there would have come a time when Maya would have had a more difficult time establishing US citizenship. It would NOT have been automatic unless Maya’s birth and US Citizenship status had been established in a timely manner.
Correction: Leo is “not” here to please me.
It is YOU who is mistaking the formal naturalization process for for all forms of citizenship granted through statute enacted by Congress under the plenary powers granted to it by the naturalization clause of the US Constitution.
In fact, ALL forms of citizenship other than “natural born” citizenship exist through the operation of federal statute law, and are therefore properly thought of as forms of naturalized citizenship. This includes anyone granted US citizenship although born in a foreign land (other than the children of diplomats). This is true whether the child has one or both US citizen parents. Absent this statute, no child born abroad (other than the child of diplomats) would be a US citizen at all.
To repeat: ALL forms of citizenship that derive from the operation of statute law are a forms of NATURALIZED citizenship.
A CoLB would be bases on some document in the Hawaii Department of Health records. So if there is no index record, there could never have been a CoLB issued. However spelling variants of foreign names are common. IIRC there are even variants of Soetero, let alone her given names.
I would think that the father's name on the long form birth certificate would establish parentage, married or not. The Certificate of Live Birth form, in '61, did not even contain a field to indicate if the parents were married. It also asks for the mother's maiden name, not her married name, if any.
Thus, if the test for NBC is having two US citizen parents, he fails, IF the long Form BC shows BHO Sr as his father.
IMHO, the search for British citizenship for Junior is misplaced. It doesn't matter. Citizenship of his father, the legal one, does. If the father was not a US Citizen, the child is not an NBC. Now there are potential circumstances that would make BHO Jr. not even a citizen, unless later naturalized, but confirming those could prove difficult.
While by the time Maya was born, S. Ann was able to convey citizenship to a child born abroad with an alien father, that is not true in general. For example, IF Barry was born abroad, his mother did not meet the "residency in the US" requirements to convey citizenship.
It would still be citizenship by statute. Congress only has the power to define a uniform rule of naturalization. So, despite Congress definition in the law, such "birthright" citizenship must be considered "naturalization at birth", or it would be unconstitutional as a Congressional exercise of power not granted by the Constitution.
Whether Barry himself was a British national at birth under British law, is of no import. The citizenship status of his father at the time of his birth is what counts, at least under the Vattel "Law of Nations" definition of "Natural Born Citizen".
The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.
BHO Sr was not a US Citizen, so BHO Jr cannot be a Natural Born US Citizen. (That quote is from the 1852 translation by Chitty, however. The original French said "The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens." The original French said "naturels, ou indigènes" apparently the translator turned the order of terms around. The earlier, British, translation said "natives, or indigenes". The founders would have read the original French version anyway.
Guess I’m just grasping at straws. I don’t know Dunham’s travel habits at that time. I just assumed that when she left Indonesia, she did it for good and too both children with her and had not set foot in Hawaii before that time.
“Maya was born in Indonesia, so why would anyone expect her to have a birth certificate from Hawaii?”
Because some people believe things they hear without ever checking for sources. In this case, the claim that Maya Soetoro had a Hawaiian birth certificate began with discredited “expert” TechDude, just a week or so before he disappeared off the web.
TechDude wrote at TexasDarlin’s blog “For a quick preview – the original COLB used to create the KOS COLB image belongs to a female and does not belong to Obama. Another follow up report will reveal exactly who the original underlying COLB did belong to. Trust me when I tell you it is going to be one hell of a major twist that no one would have seen coming.”
“KG” then replied in comments:
KG // August 4, 2008 at 8:45 pm Holy crap. I’ve just duplicated the effort. It’s Maya’s - Maya Kassandra Soetoro. Her name fits perfectly in the artifacts.
Followed by this comment from TechDude:
techdude // August 5, 2008 at 12:06 am Congrats KG (I really wanted to play online all night but I am exhausted and will reply more in the AM)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2056030/posts?page=178
About a week after this, TechDude was publicly exposed and recognized as a fraud, and he vanished, without ever publishing any images of Maya’s name on the COLB, or instructions on how to find it. “KG” more or less disappeared into the ether too, never publishing anything about the name ‘discovery.’ No one else ever subsequently claimed independent knowledge of a COLB for Maya.
So although TechDude was discredited, somehow this ‘fact’ of his managed to take on a life of its own, with folks eventually claiming that Maya *had* a Hawaiian birth certificate, even though there was never any evidence of that.
I agree with you, but the reason the nationality of the father is important is that it devolves upon the son. If Obama SR. WERE NOT married to Ann Dunham, he would not have passed on his nationality to his son, and most likely as a child of a single unmarried US citizen mother, only her citizenship would have been taken into account. There would not even have been any requirement for Ann Dunham to name the father on the Birth Certificate.
All of this assuming, of course, a Hawaii birth location.
Thanks.....the laws were in flux and becoming looser and looser
This should be a warning to those who don't delve into the details themselves but tend to give the birthers some credibility. You shouldn't. The rest of the birther story follows a pretty similar pattern. The claims are not supported by the evidence.
Father’s citizenship was crucial to the founding fathers. Otherwise why did Chester A Arthur spend so much effort covering up his father’s foreign birth?
Is in not interesting that father’s provenance had more weight than mother’s. Women did not have the vote either...And it should have stayed that way (LOL)
Well, if that is true, why does he even bother posting stuff? Or, he could at least post it in black on black.
If you use Firefox you can under “View” and “Page Style” select “No Style”, that will give you black text on white background.
You can also do that with Explorer but it gives a dark grey text on a grey background.
But that is the current law, not the law in effect when either Maya or Barry were born. It was then 10 years and 5 after the 14th birthday. (You got that part slightly wrong, it is and was after the 14th birthday.
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
...
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:
But check the notes at the link above, one of which says:
1986—Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 99–653 substituted “five years, at least two” for “ten years, at least five”.
However that law was passed under Congress power to define a uniform rule of naturalization. So even though the law itself, 8 USC 1101, says: "The term “naturalization” means the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever.", any child whose citizenship at birth is established solely by statute, must be considered, for Constitutional purposes, to be "naturalized at birth", because that is the only power Congress has to make someone a citizen. Congress cannot re-define a Constitutional term for purposes of the Constitution.
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