A man of character would just produce the birth certificate - TOM HOEFLING

AIPNews.com ^ | October 4, 2009 | Tom Hoefling

[EternalVigilance]

On the eve of the hearing in Judge David Carter's federal courtroom in Santa Ana, California, over whether Barack Obama will be forced to produce documentation of his birth, several things are clear:

1) Barack Obama still refuses to produce any documentation concerning the circumstances of his birth. The question remains: Why?

2) His lawyers (paid for by you, the taxpayer) made NO assertions in their pleadings concerning whether or not Obama is a natural born citizen. None. They simply told the court that it doesn't have jurisdiction in this matter.

If you want to boil the message of Obama and his government lawyers to the American people down to its essence, what they are saying is "WE WON. Get over it." If you’ve been paying attention, you know that this bit of arrogance is hardly something new for Barack Obama.

Sorry, but millions of Americans refuse to "get over it." The Constitution's simple requirements still matter to us. We deserve to know whether the man in the White House, occupying the most powerful position in our country and in the world, is actually constitutionally qualified to be there. Some of us have sons and daughters who may live or die based on the decisions that are made in that particular office, and the quality of the character of the man making the decisions.

Congress should have taken care of this months ago. But they refused to do their job. You see, the two-legged beast known as the Democrat and Republican political establishment no longer cares at all about the Constitution's requirements. The oath of office has become nothing more to them than a formality.

No matter what the outcome might be in the courtroom tomorrow, that isn't going to change. At least, not until We the People clean out the lawless septic tank Washington has become and elect people who understand and will adhere to the most basic laws of our land.

And so, tomorrow we will see the quality of the character of a single federal judge, former Marine Judge David Carter. We will see if he buys into the argument that because everyone else has abrogated their oath, he must do the same.

[Jet Jaguar]

Ping

[F15Eagle]

As Obama refuses to produce his Long Form Birth Certificate, the questions are only going to grow.

A $12 certificate to a federal court requires very little effort.

What’s on it (or missing?) that has him so concerned?

[The Magical Mischief Tour]

Is the hearing tomorrow?

[x_plus_one]

Where there’s smoke there’s fire...time to fan the flames.

[Non-Sequitur]

1) Barack Obama still refuses to produce any documentation concerning the circumstances of his birth. The question remains: Why?

The answer remains: Because he doesn't have to.

[Non-Sequitur]

Is the hearing tomorrow?

Yes, though there is no guarantee that the judge will issue his ruling then.

[Jet Jaguar]

I dunno. I have not been following the certifigate threads too much.

[EternalVigilance]

The answer remains: Because he doesn't have to.

That may change. Who knows.

But, if he was a man of character he would release the information anyway, for the sake of the integrity of the office.

[AAABEST]

Barack Obama still refuses to produce any documentation concerning the circumstances of his birth. The question remains:

WHY?

[jimfree]

A man of character would just produce the birth certificate

How wonderfully elegant! Nothing more need be said, and this must be said repeatedly.

[Diogenesis]

Mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack SOVAIN Obama,
Has less documentation than a South American llama.

“D.C. Tech Official Is Accused of Bribery(Birth Certificate Forgery)
A D.C. government official and a business executive were arrested yesterday on bribery
charges involving city technology contracts that included "ghost" workers and
kickbacks, federal authorities said. Until recently, the technology office was headed
by Vivek Kundra, who has taken a job as President Obama's chief information officer.
A White House official confirmed last night that Kundra has taken a leave of absence.
“Yusuf Acar, 40, who has worked in the technology office since 2004, was charged with
bribery, conspiracy, money laundering and conflict of interest.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Thomas Hibarger told a federal judge that Acar is a flight risk because agents
seized $70,000 in cash in his house and because in recorded conversations, he boasted that he could easily flee to his native Turkey.
Acar also told the informant that he could use
computers to create fake D.C. birth certificates, Hibarger said. “

[Don Corleone]

At least, not until We the People clean out the lawless septic tank Washington has become and elect people who understand and will adhere to the most basic laws of our land.

Let us Hope for another election in 2010. My gut feeling is that Obama will try to engineer a "crisis" to institute Marshall Law and suspend the elections for "Our own good".

[Uncle Chip]

And so, tomorrow we will see the quality of the character of a single federal judge, former Marine Judge David Carter. We will see if he buys into the argument that because everyone else has abrogated their oath, he must do the same.

We're looking for just a few good men --

[eyedigress]

Bambi’s credibility will continue to fall, as it should. Why doesn’t he just release it and be done with it? My guess now is it is either fraudulent or doesn’t exist.

[freekitty]

Yes The judge should be ruling on whether to grant the motion of dismissal

[jesseam]

Maybe I am reading the regulations wrong but if obamas father was a Kenyan and his mother was a US citizen being born in Kansas she had to be at least 18 years of age to confer citizenship to her off spring. I read where she was sixteen so obama would share his fathers citizenship and is therefore a Kenyan. At least that is my take on zero’s “citizenship”.

[Let's Roll]

If there’s nothing to hide, why is he hiding it?

[freekitty]

Something has to be out there or he wouldn’t be spending so much money covering everything up. I bet he thinks he is the cats meow using government lawyers to defend himself on our dime.

[FR_addict]

Do you know what time tomorrow?

[Markos33]

The _resident is a man of character.

Low down, immoral, snake belly character.

[nathanbedford]

Congress should have taken care of this months ago. But they refused to do their job. You see, the two-legged beast known as the Democrat and Republican political establishment no longer cares at all about the Constitution's requirements.

Yes Congress should have done this job months ago, and yes, secretaries of 50 states should have done their job, and yes, the Democratic Party (if it had a sense of decency) should have done its job months ago and vetted its own candidate. But all of these institutions broke down and failed in their responsibilities. Why?

Let's say it: John McCain was thoroughly vetted on the same issue and Barack Obama was not. There are two differences between the candidates, one is Republican and white and the other is Democrat and black.

What do you think accounts for the failure of all these institutions to serve their responsibilities concerning Barack Obama?

[Diogenesis]

Clearing the Smoke on Obama’s Eligibility: An Intelligence Investigator’s June 10 Report
"The Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii
In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record.
BC1. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

BC2. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before “the local registrar of the district.”
It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent’s signature to a form and mail it in.
In addition, if a claim was made that “neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.” (Section 57-8&9)
.... there is and was no requirement for a physician or midwife to witness, state or report that the baby was born in Hawaii.

BC3. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a “Delayed Certificate” could be filed, which required that “a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates”, which “evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.”
The statute provided that “the probative value of a ‘delayed’ or ‘altered’ certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.” (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).”

BC4. If a child is born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult (including the subject person [i.e. the birth child as an adult]) if the Office of the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year.
(See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961.)
In 1955 the “secretary of the Territory” was in charge of this procedure. In 1960 it was transferred to the Office of the Lieutenant Governor (“the lieutenant governor, or his secretary, or such other person as he may designate or appoint from his office” §338-41 [in 1961]).

In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fifth kind of “original birth certificate”. Under Act 182 H.B. NO. 3016-82, “Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that the proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.”
In this way “state policies and procedures” accommodate even “children born out of State” (this is the actual language of Act 182) with an “original birth certificate on record.”

[specsaregood]

Because he gets a lot more mileage out of not revealing it; pissing off the right-wingers, in turn pisses off his base and gets them motivated to thwart the us. Keeps both sides distracted while both parties work together to really ream us all.

[Uncle Sham]

"The answer remains: Because he doesn't have to"

W R O N G !

I want to thank you once again for allowing me the opportunity to PROVE that you are a liar with your deceitful postings on these birth certificate threads.

Exhibit A, The Twentieth Amendment, Section 3 reads as follows:

”3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.”

Exhibit B U. S. Code, CITE: 3USC19

TITLE 3--THE PRESIDENT, CHAPTER 1- PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS AND VACANCIES

Sec. 19. Vacancy in offices of both President and Vice President; officers eligible to act

”(a)(1) If, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, there is neither a President nor Vice President to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President, then the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, upon his resignation as Speaker and as Representative in Congress, act as President. “

Exhibit C: U. S. Constitution, Article Six Oath of Office for elected officials:

” The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

Exhibit D: The Electoral Vote Counting Act of 1877:

The process currently provides that someone “challenge” the electoral votes during a short, specified time frame while the Electoral College votes are opened and tabulated. This process does not cover challenges to "eligibility" qualifications. In fact, if this act pretends to do so in the manner in which it prescribes, it is unconstitutional. Any act of this sort that does not require that qualifications be presented by the President elect serves to undercut the provisions in the Constitution itself. No act that does not support the Constitution is constitutional. In order to change the requirements of the Twentieth amendment, one would need to pass another amendment. An “Act” doesn’t cut the mustard.

The portion in bold stating “or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify” in section three is particularly interesting in that it plainly seems to infer that a “qualification” of some sort must be made in order to serve as President. Certainly, one cannot argue that it does not require a qualification process for one to “qualify”. To infer that the lack of a “specified” qualification process means that stated eligibility “qualifications” for the office of president can be ignored is fallacious. The wording of this passage in the twentieth amendment clearly infers that a qualification is required, regardless of how this is done.

There is only one set of qualifications listed anywhere in the Constitution that are not health related and they are listed in Article two, section one.

” No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

To satisfy meeting the requirement of the twentieth amendment to “qualify”, a president elect must present evidence that he meets it’s requirements for eligibility to serve. This means that a proper birth certificate HAD to be presented by the president elect in order to serve as president. In fact, without establishing whether or not the President elect is "qualified", Congress would not know whether or not to step in and name a temporary replacement as the Amendment requires. Certainly, this means that the proof of "qualifications" must be presented to Congress.

If this was done, where is that certificate and to whom was it presented? If this was done, why would we not have the right to verify and inspect it under the freedom of information act?

If it was NOT done, then under the provisions of the twentieth amendment, Barrack Obama has “failed to qualify” and should not be serving as president of the United States of America.

Based upon the above, I conclude that:

1. We currently have a vacancy at President because no one has yet “qualified” as required in the Twentieth amendment. The terms "The President elect shall have failed to qualify" clearly places this burden upon the President elect and not on someone raising their hand in objection.

2. Anyone serving in Congress (see “Congress” in bold in Exhibit A), or anyone who is currently serving under the oath of office in Article six has "standing" and can DEMAND that their oaths be met by receiving proper “qualifying” documentation from Mr. Obama. This charade at the time of counting the Electoral College votes does not limit their ability to do so at any time they so choose. The very fact that they are duty-bound by oath to "support" the Constitution REQUIRES them to respond to any and all attacks against it. No judge can deny any of them the standing to do so. It would ask them to break the law in their effort to enforce the law.

3. We need to start pressing legal charges against all of our local representatives and senators covered by the oath of office in Article six for disobeying their oaths to support the Constitution as it pertains to the language of section three of the Twentieth amendment. Put PRESSURE on them to represent the document that gives them their authority in the first place. We are looking into how best to do this down here. We all should be looking into this approach. NOW.

Anyone who wishes to check the Justice department argument on behalf of Obama will find out that they themselves back up the argument that I've put forth as part of their reasoning that judge Carter does not hold jurisdiction over this issue.

[EternalVigilance]

I think the more appropriate question is why McCain and his party didn’t have Obama and his party in the courts over this last fall.

Again, more dereliction of duty.

[Uncle Chip]

Do you know what time tomorrow?

I'm not sure -- but kellynla would know.

[chainsaw]

They simply told the court that it doesn’t have jurisdiction in this matter.

In small claims court I said that to the judge about the person I was suing that didn’t show. You should have seen the judges hair on the back of his neck perk up.

[ChildOfThe60s]

The answer remains: Because he doesn't have to.

It's not so much why is he refusing, but why is he unwilling?

It's not so much a matter of legal. Legal is what you can get away with. Which, since his cronies run congress and the Justice Department, is pretty much anything.
The question might be better phrased: Why is he unwilling to do so?

[EternalVigilance]

8:30 am Pacific time, I believe.

[Parley Baer]

I have said if Obama cared one whit about the Constitution he would have shown his birth certificate. Seeing as he has not it just shows his arrogance in that he is above the laws of the land.

[EternalVigilance]

8:30 am Pacific time, I believe.

[The Comedian]

[ASA Vet]

If as Comrade Obama Jr claims his dad was Barak Hussein Obama Sr, of Kenya,
than it's not possible for Junior to be a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S.

At the time of the drafting and ratification of the United States constitution,
the definition of natural born citizen, combined both the principles of jus soli and jus sanguinis.

“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.
As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.”
Emmerich De Vattel, (1714-1767,) Law of Nations, § 212. Of the citizens and natives, 1758

[Theodore R.]

Maybe there isn’t a birth certificate? At any rate, the American people have no interest in this. Katie Couric told us so by her silence.

[thecraw]

I think the more appropriate question is why McCain and his party didn’t have Obama and his party in the courts over this last fall.

Born in Panama, McCain had his own Natural Born Citizen "issue" and likely had some sort of an "understanding" with fellow RINOs and Obot Enablers that the there was "nothing to see here folks, move along..."

McCain was probably told, "If you bring down Obama, you're going down too."

[Theodore R.]

The American people, including Ann Coulter, say there is nothing to the birth certificat matter.

[Theodore R.]

All your fine research, however, means nothing to the American people, who are like contented cows when it comes to “their” President.

[ASA Vet]

How long before this thread is moved from “news” to “general chat”, as seems to happen to all so called “bither” treads?”

[Non-Sequitur]

Based upon the above, I conclude...

You can conclude what you want. Missing in all that is a quote from the relevant law outlining how a presidential candidate must prove his eligibility and who he proves it to.

[ChildOfThe60s]

See my post #29.

If no one can, or is willing to force him, then he doesn’t have to.

The law matters when it can be enforced. If it can’t be, then one is just pi**ing into the wind.

The Republican members of Congress could probably engineer a shutdown of Congress, leading to a Constitutional showdown/crisis. They are unwilling do to that. Ipso facto, he doesn’t have to produce jack sh*t.

The real question one should be asking, is why are nearly all Republicans unwilling to address this issue. We have a pretty good idea of Hussein’s motivations here. What in Hell is guiding the Republicans?

[eyedigress]

I have not been an active part of this on FR but know it seems more and more reclusive on his part. I will ask Mrs. Blackburns office tomorrow on the vetting of presidential candidates in TN. If she can’t answer I will ask the Governor. If he can’t answer I will let all know.

[Two Kids' Dad]

I’d love it if Judge Carter would ask each of Zero’s lawyers if they’d stake their law degrees on the validity of Zero’s COLB. Then sit back and watch them squirm and waffle and obfuscate. Not one would be willing to put his own career on the line to vouch for the validity of the only document that Zero has produced to date. That speaks volumes.

Judge Carter needs to show this country that our laws and the Constitution’s requirements actually mean something. If he fails I will lose hope in the judiciary specifically and the entire legal system as a whole.

The outcome of this case will determine if the rule of law still stands or if we’re officially a third-world nation with kangaroo courts. If it’s the latter, I have thought of all sorts of ways to make illegal money and may just have to try out a few. Has our country devolved that far? We’ll find out soon enough.

[kellynla]

8:30AM

[the invisib1e hand]

A man of character would just produce the birth certificate...

Ergo....

[Two Kids' Dad]

All he has to do is decline to dismiss the case and then allow for discovery to begin. That should be enough for the truth to start to be known. That’s what we deserve, that’s what we demand.

[True Republican Patriot]

Everybody knows Rule No. ! when it comes to Dealing with Shysters and Snakeoil Salesmen, dont they??

IF IT STINKS!! IT IS ALWAYS S**T!

Hiding One’s Birth Certificate STINKS!!!

[Non-Sequitur]

At the time of the drafting and ratification of the United States constitution, the definition of natural born citizen, combined both the principles of jus soli and jus sanguinis.

That would depend on what definition you used. In his "Commentaries on the Laws of England", William Blackstone wrote: "The children of aliens, born here in England, are, generally speaking, natural-born subjects, and entitled to all the privileges of such. In which the consftitution of France differs from ours; for there, by their jus albinatus, if a child be born of foreign parents, it is an alien."

James Kent in his "Commentaries on American Law" agreed: "And if, at common law, all human beings born within the ligeance of the King, and under the King's obedience, were natural-born subjects, and not aliens, I do not perceive why this doctrine does not apply to these United States, in all cases in which there is no express constitutional or statute declaration to the contrary..."

[Achilles Heel]

Wherever ZERO was hatched, the citizens deserve to know where. It can only mean there is a cover up of sorts when lawsuits are filed on this matter.

[Non-Sequitur]

All he has to do is decline to dismiss the case and then allow for discovery to begin. That should be enough for the truth to start to be known. That’s what we deserve, that’s what we demand.

But that may not be what you get. We should find out some time this week.