Posted on 10/06/2009 5:53:46 AM PDT by decimon
Needed: A 'clean line' to determine lawfulness
"You don't need to know. You can't know." That's what Kathy Norris, a 60-year-old grandmother of eight, was told when she tried to ask court officials why, the day before, federal agents had subjected her home to a furious search.
The agents who spent half a day ransacking Mrs. Norris' longtime home in Spring, Texas, answered no questions while they emptied file cabinets, pulled books off shelves, rifled through drawers and closets, and threw the contents on the floor.
The six agents, wearing SWAT gear and carrying weapons, were with - get this- the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
Kathy and George Norris lived under the specter of a covert government investigation for almost six months before the government unsealed a secret indictment and revealed why the Fish and Wildlife Service had treated their family home as if it were a training base for suspected terrorists. Orchids.
That's right. Orchids.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
The most dangerous phrase in the English Language — “There oughtta be a law!”
Come to think of it, would Nero Wolfe be Public Enemy Number One?
There have been no knock/guns drawn raids by swat teams to investigate someone they suspected of taking too many fish. Not a commercial fisherman, a guy suspected of taking 2 too many bass.
So let me get this straight, Child molesters get probation but a senior citizen growing orchids get 2 years in jail?
Antedated. Today it's, "There is a law!"
The gummint is merely trying to protect us from the Attack of the Mutant Orchids.
"You don't need to know. You can't know."
Amendment 4
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and
no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized.
I thought they had to provide a copy of the search warrant to the property owner before starting a search. Or is that just a TV thing?
Think of the future as a boot, endlessly trampling a human face.
Where or where do they come from!
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against... We’re after power and we mean it... There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be
much easier to deal with.” (’Atlas Shrugged’, Ayn Rand)
Things like too many bass or some errant orchids are cause for a warning or some reasonable fine. Assuming, that is, the laws or regulations involved are reasonable.
Not more than three or four years ago I was ridiculed by multiple Freepers for saying that this is NOT a free country. I used to hear someone almost everyday say, “It’s a free country ain’t it?” Does anyone still believe this is a free country?
I just finished reading ORCHID FEVER written by Eric Hansen.
These regulations are the results of CITES, The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora. This book is a real eye opener for anyone interested to see how a group of selfish “experts” can import and collect anything they desire while destroying anyone they dislike or have a falling out with. An excellent example of power corrupting and regulation gone wild. This happens around the world in those countries that are members and have signed on to this global nonsense. Bottom line is that Orchids are NOT protected from clear cutting, etc. and destroyed because collecting them and selling them is illegal.
See post #13.
Lets see, I would slap the sh!t out of the judge for signing off on this, as well as dis-bar his dumb ass, I would seize the assets of these idiots in hiding (swat) and lock them up for felony stupid and then kneecap the wannabe cop (fish & wildlife) moron then turn him over to ObamaCare.
I was a free country. You just happened to realize what was happening under the radar long before the rest of us did. If it wasn’t for people like you trying to open our eyes we might not have seen it at all. Thank you.
Watching the movie, Heat, I was struck by this line from the Jon Voight character: "It's a free country, brother." Struck because I would hear that expression often when I was young but hadn't heard it voiced in years.
I heard of a case where this happened to a retired couple who stocked their pond with the wrong kinds of fish, too. These guys seem to LOVE scare tactics.
If the US ever decides it needs a corps of jack-booted thugs, the Fish and Wildlife cops are very well set up to play the role. fh
>before the government unsealed a secret indictment
Star Court anyone?
Excellent typo. Excellent.
like I said before, when States start locking up Federal Agents that cannot demonstrate the written word of the US Constitution authorizes their function. Only then will we begin the long journey to Freedom. it is cases like this that the 2nd Amendment was written for, Should the Governor call forth the Militia to suppress the Federal Usurpers of States Rights??
What would John Wayne do?
Star Court anyone?
"You don't need to know. You can't know."
Over Orchids! We have become a Police State.
It wasn’t intentional, but it kind of works, huh?
AFAIK that is the way it is supposed to work. Of course that may just have been the way it was before the Supremos stated hallucinating penumbras and such.
SImply must read the entire article. How many of us might very well be made criminals because of vague and over-reaching laws?
This started in 2004. Can’t even blame Zer0! It is this kind of abuse that GWB and his administration should have sought to curtail. This is the kind of abuse of rights that is an outrage, but the left only cares (and most of the media only scream) when it is enemies of America who must face penalties.
"Flower Power" just don't mean what it used to.
I think it does, sir. I do. I think it does.
Where do these guys get the authority to detain and search Federally Documented Vessels in navigable waters? Are they in violation of Coast Guard Regulations by operating a vessel for compensation with out a Masters License? It apears that they are above the laws.
The Fourth Amendment was abrogated by the Drug War decades ago. To cheers and huzzahs from the crowd. So now the tactics are applied everywhere. So it goes.
Two words every American must know and understand:
Jury Nullification
Please explain. I am not legally savvy.
“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against . . . We’re after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”
Atlas Shrugged
Read the full article:
“The Norrises’ nightmare began with the search in October 2003. It didn’t end until Mr. Norris was released from federal supervision in December 2008. His wife testified, however, that even after he came home, the man she had married was still gone. He was by then 71 years old. Unsurprisingly, serving two years as a federal convict - in addition to the years it took to defend unsuccessfully against the charges - had taken a severe toll on him mentally, emotionally and physically.”
During the GW Bush years. You remember those? The same time frame that Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean were prosecuted, convicted and jailed for doing their jobs. That justice department witheld exculpatory information during their trial, just as the dangerous orchid growers did not receive their procedural right . . .
Well, procedural options, or whimseys.
There is a continuity from the New World Order to the Citizen of the World. Only fools would deny it, but there are a hell of a lot of fools who believe in empty suits and empty parties.
The United States has been misgoverned for 20 years, with at least 4 more to go.
Do you have any more info on that one? State, year, etc.? Thanks.
And the recent case mentioned on FOX of the judge who gave a convicted pedophile probation only as his sentence.
"The six agents, wearing SWAT gear and carrying weapons..."
Do we really need to be told that cops carry guns? I hate this type of scare-tactic journalism. That being said, this article frightens me. I am sure there is more to it, but...
Is everyone aware that the agents of the following Federal departments carry guns? BATFE, Treasury, Fish & Wildlife, IRS, Labor, Interior, Environmental Protection, Transportation, and Agriculture.
Department of AGRICULTURE? Yes, Agriculture.
One of these days, some bunch of jack-booted thugs from Agriculture or BATF is going to invade the wrong innocent-man's house, as detailed in Ross's book. That man is going to fight back mercilessly, killing the invaders of his home in self-defense. And he is going to touch off a nation-wide revolt against the Federal government's illegitimate arrogation of power to itself.
Watch it. It WILL happen. And soon.
Big Brother is Watching You.
America -- a great idea, didn't last.
F’ggovernment is truly one word!
The Jury is the final determiner of the law and juries have an intrinsic right to determine that a law ought not to be enforced by finding a person who has violated that law to be not guilty.
This site explains it much better: Fully Informed Jury Association
Exactly the reason I gave up a hobby that I really enjoyed. I began making home-made soap several years ago, sold some, made some craft shows, but mostly just used it and gave it as gifts. I made some really nice baskets for friends and even did some guest gifts for showers and weddings. Then the federal government decided that the lye I used is also used in the manufacture of meth. You can no longer buy lye over the counter. You can buy small quantities by mail, but it is subject to hazardous material shipping restrictions. The whole process is expensive and frankly you worry about being on a watch list somewhere. I just used the last of my soaps and had to purchase soap at Walmart.. It is not the same.
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