Posted on 10/08/2009 2:43:31 PM PDT by TruthBeforeAll
Could the Prius and other Toyota hybrids be banned from the U.S.? It seems unthinkable, but that's one possible ending to a patent investigation launched this week.
This case centers around Paice, a tiny Florida company that has patented a way to apply force to a car's wheels from the electric motor or the internal combustion engine.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.moneycentral.msn.com ...
The Probe has been out of production for a while now.
Government Motors is trying to eliminate the competition.
Toyota should have used a “Serial Hybrid” design, LOL.
I wonder if this covers Ford’s hybrid technology? Ford and Toyo had cross licensed some technology but Ford now owns 100% of their hybrid technology.
Sounds like the FL company has very good lawyers and forum shopped in Texas. Maybe they might work on a birth certificate issue.
I was unable to find the Paice patent in the few minutes I allotted to searching but it seems to be a pretty general “idea” of an internal combustion engine and an electric in one package..
I’m waiting for better batteries , hub mounted electric motors and a very high efficiency diesel engine to run the generator and a/c .
most companies just go blind into this minefield... they do not look at other patents because if they do they can be socked for more.
Not another stupid vague patent.
The outfit sounds like a patent troll to me...
this kind of problem does not usually arise in the automotive field because of industry associations that cross license patents from, say, ford to chrysler or whatever. toyota stepped out of the box and will pay the price. will this bring us more or better cars in the future?
Well...if they take down Toyota’s hybrids shall we assume they will have to take down Ford’s as well since Ford licenses much of their system from Toyota? Nice...way to screw over the last remaining US automaker that hasn’t sold its soul to the government.
what percentage of fords use this anyhow?
green speaks louder than red white and blue
“most companies just go blind into this minefield... they do not look at other patents because if they do they can be socked for more.”
I have no Pity fot the japs they have stole a lot and must pay the piper once in a while.But I hope no one else gets hurt here like Ford.
I had a friend in the engine parts business that did the same thing.
looks more like near simultaneous invention except toyota never thought to try to patent something that rudimentary
Zer0 can just nationalize the company and fire the CEO and lawyers.
Hmmmm! For a minute I thought it was referring to some Toyota employee named Prius who was going to the big butt-buggers (HRC) dinner with oscumbo this weekend....
Ford had internal and Detroit specific articles that their Hybrid Drivetrain was theirs except for a few Toyota Patents, but over 270 patents on their system alone and that was after its intro, my guess is they have even more now....
Huh? A few Toyo patents. Ford is still using Toyo technology?
A friends has a relative at Ford and they said it is all Ford now.
Yup. Patent trolls can make mega money. Biggest bottom feeders going.
Yup. Patent trolls can make mega money. Biggest bottom feeders going.
This is why I said F-Patents a loooooooooong time ago. I create and market products that every single person in business I sell to says “I hope you put a patent on that”.
Patenting is one of the most expensive wastes of time for people with marketable ideas. The security of your patent is only as good as the people who have access to the file.
Get out there and sell your products and make sure you create formula’s within formula’s to keep it near immpossible to hose your idea.
I just copyrighted that phrase, "stupid vague patent"©
Thanks.
Frankly the US patent office has been out of control for many years now. They allow patents for all sorts of stupid things that have been known technology for decades. It is a nightmare for anyone who actual creates things.
East Texas Patent Troll Lawsuit. A common tale.
I have relatives and friends and read those public documents of what I spoke.
If need be I will get them to get FR login and maybe they can explain it to you.
Yeah, notice how many negative headlines have come out lately against Government Motors’ competition....I mean good grief, floor mats even!
Bingo! I wouldn't go that far, but I wonder how many folks understand what you are saying - very few. Unless one has been there, it's a very very gray game (lawyers), and like a lot of things, any thing that pops up in the media is disinformation.
Primarily because those in the media don't have a clue.
I've worked with idiots all my life and I trust only myself and certain family with ideas. The day I spend 10 to 20,000 for a lawyer so I can trust a boreingcrat with my idea is the same day I check into an asylum.
Can’t tell which one it is, but here are Paice’s patents: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=0&p=1&f=S&l=50&Query=An%2Fpaice%0D%0A&d=PTXT
Whatever. Where do you get off being so obnoxious and jumping on me for making a comment about Ford’s patents? I was not jumping on you jacka*s.
“Off what I spoke” WTF is that?
Instead of having them explain it to me, maybe your should take a remedial English class. You have posted two messages and I still cannot understand what you are talking about.
I see the other side. Smart guy invents something useful. Can’t get the time of day from large companies and money people. Patents the idea on his own. Then when the big company who ingored him rips off the idea and he sues, the big company, their shills, and people who see the media garbage about the worst cases scream “troll!!!” Or the little guy can’t fund the lawsuit because the big company won’t pay a pittiance for the patent but will pay megabucks to lawyers, so the little guy sells out for a song to a bonafide troll out of necessity (and often pending bankruptcy).
Trust me, those are the FAR more common cases.
Have a nice day...
I believe we’re on the same page but you may or I may be misunderstanding?
I don’t patent my ideas or products but market and sell them on the internet. This in turn creates demand within the local stores where my product is usefull and they purchase from me as well. This includes Walmart in select areas.
Had I patented my products & ideas 15 years ago when I first started they would today be public knowledge.
This would make my company and ideas worthless simply because I thought a patent would protect me.
Never forget a “U.S Patent” is an arm of the Federal Government and the last time I checked it was “for sale” to the highest bidder at every level.
It’s late so appologies if this doesn’t make sense.
What you are doing is a valid way to go about business. VERY valid, in fact. If I understand it, you are using trade secrets and internet marketing. If you can do it, that is a very powerful strategy. However, for many types of inventions, it is simply not practical. It’s not always possible to have formulas within formulas (trying to paraphrase what you said earlier). Some inventions — real honest bonafide inventions — are simply too easy to reverse engineer once they are out in the market. That’s where patents are supposed to come into play. They are supposed to protect inventors’ efforts for a limited time to encourage invention.
The system is distorted (as is just about everything else the feds do these days, eh?), but it still works to some degree. It’s better than nothing for the person who invents something useful that they can’t bury in a “black box” or formulas within formulas.
Now some big companies HATE it when an independent person invents something they want to make/use/sell. They’d rather fight for years and spend fortunes on lawyers rather than play by the rules, even when they know they are wrong. Why? Because they usually win against the little guy. However, sometimes the little guy wins, and sometimes the little guy brings on people who really know how to fight this game in order to have a chance to win. Those people are often castigated as patent trolls. Then people get all upset when the big company has to pay up.
There is of course a flip side: Gargage inventions and patents on them can be used to try to extort money from big companies. Once you learn how to play this game, it’s sometimes just as easy to play it with bad patents. Of course, those stories get all the press or other stories are often fit into that mold. Why? Because outrage sells copy.
There are also the big fights between two behemoths who try to pound each other into dust with their patents. That’s a whole other topic, though.
The real problem is that any time economic interests of the scales usually involved in these fights collide, the system to handle them — being a system of men — does so imperfectly. That’s a reason to work on improving the system, not utterly gutting it in favor of a “hide your invention or lose it” system. (Not even going to get into the societal pitfalls of forcing people to hide their inventions.)
PS You said “The security of your patent is only as good as the people who have access to the file.” Um, once a patent issues, EVERYONE has access to the file. That’s part of the deal: You disclose how to do something, and you get the courts to help you keep others from doing it for a limited time. The unwritten rules are the following: (1) bewarned, it’s expensive to do, and (2) many people will castigate you as a troll if you try.
(BTW, I work in this field on the business side, so that’s where I get my background.)
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