Posted on 10/09/2009 7:25:38 PM PDT by Domandred
Gunslingers twice rejected from family dining establishments
First, they were turned away from Fuddruckers, then Idaho Pizza Company, farther out. But here at Shari's, just west of the Idaho State Police building in Meridian, John Carter and Mike Ludlow are finally able to sit down to dinner, black Glocks still strapped to their hips.
The evening, up to this point, had certainly taken on a no-room-at-the-inn feel. Their objectives were simple: to sit down in a restaurant with their handguns clearly hanging in hip holsters, and to enjoy dinner with other like-minded and explicitly armed individuals.
Carter and Ludlow are two pro-Second Amendment, gun-carrying activists trying to establish a local gun-rights advocacy group. On this night, however, their interest goes beyond your everyday, "to keep and bear arms" right.
The firearms right that Carter and Ludlow are interested in advocating, exercising and promoting is called "open carry." They're not only advocating carrying a gun for the entire Glock-fearing or, as the case may be, Glock-loving world to see, they also have a strong interest in seeing you openly carrying a firearm, too.
"We want to use the presence of our openly carried firearms to start a dialogue on what is legal in Idaho," said Ludlow, his Model 31 .357SIG Glock holstered on his right hip.
Even though Ludlow has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, he prefers to carry his gun openly, which is legal in Idaho and does not require any special permit. For both him and Carter, open carrying is about personal safety and deterring crime.
According to opencarry.org, Idaho is one of 11 states—including Montana, Wyoming and Virginia—that allow citizens to openly carry firearms without a license. Only eight states don't allow any type of open carry.
The right to open carry in Idaho was established in 1902. And even though President Barack Obama's election last year sparked a flurry of concern among the pro-gun crowd, gun rights themselves show no sign of being rolled back by the federal government. In fact, with the Supreme Court's decision to strike down Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban and to hear a new challenge to Chicago's similar ban next year, gun rights seem to be expanding.
"What this really comes down to is [that] your safety is your primary concern, and the safety of your family," said Carter, who was carrying a Glock .45. "There's no one else who's going to take care of it. You're in charge of your safety."
And this is what caused the two men so much trouble, dinner-wise, on this night.
The original Open Carry Dinner, organized by Ludlow and Carter, was to be at the Meridian Fuddruckers, and press releases went out to this effect. This widespread announcement to the local media, from the hindsight that the corner booth at Shari's later provided, may not have been the best strategy.
Less than 24 hours after the press release, Idaho Statesman entertainment reporter Michael Deeds posted the info on his blog, complete with references to Gunsmoke, bullet-proof jackets, and (a bit inexplicably) nunchucks. The calls to Fuddruckers began. By Saturday afternoon, the calls expressing concern about such a dinner forced Ludlow to reschedule at Idaho Pizza Company in Meridian.
But after four Open Carriers showed up for pizza with guns on their belts, they were politely told by the manager to please disarm or leave.
"This is supposed to be a family atmosphere," said an IPC employee, who asked to remain anonymous. "We got no problem with them coming in. We just don't want them carrying guns. I mean, we don't live in the Wild West, man."
After huddling in the parking lot outside of IPC, Carter and Ludlow agreed to go to Shari's, where they'd never had a problem while open carrying. Two others decided to call it a night. At Shari's, they walked in, women and children in tow, and sat down.
Not one of the diners seemed to look twice at their weapons. Shari's, after all, is something of a cop hangout. Regulars are used to seeing troopers with their gun belts, state detectives in loose suits and holsters.
After three tries, the Open Carry Dinner was on. But the group's numbers, originally in the handful range, had dwindled. Only Ludlow and Carter were open carrying. If their goal is to re-normalize guns in America, the night's double rejection spoke to the size of the task.
"That irrational simple-mindedness is what hurts us the most," Carter said after sliding into the booth. "In his article, [Deeds] implied it was going to be the Wild, Wild West. And by implying that, you're implying shootouts on a Saturday night. So by his tone, he was implying we were going to go in and shoot up the place, which, as you can attest, we have not done."
It was true. Meals continued uninterrupted. Sodas arrived; tables were cleared. The waiter hardly seemed to notice the guns.
That's not always the case. Carter describes at least two times when he's been stopped by local police because someone saw him carrying his gun and called the cops. Once he was surrounded by four officers while walking in Caldwell, not bothering anyone, "just a guy with a gun," he said.
"My neighborhood isn't terrible," said Carter, "but it isn't the greatest, so I felt like carrying. And that's all I need to say: I felt like carrying. It'd be like my coming up to someone and telling them, 'you need to turn off your Walkman. It offends me.' There's not a lot of difference there."
Much of the tension of the gun debate lies within this parallel, which is common among gun advocates. One of the open carriers who showed up at IPC had a truck sporting a bumper sticker that compared guns to seat belts: you never know when you'll need them.
But a seat belt or an iPod aren't inherently deadly weapons, and the analogy seems to confuse feeling offended with feeling threatened.
Still, these analogies get at the heart of the Idaho gun debate. Pro-gun advocates like Ludlow and Carter see guns as tools. Anti-gun advocates see them as threats, as instruments of death. Like abortion, health care and marriage, guns are cultural symbols that carry political, ethical and emotional messages. The black Glocks on Carter and Ludlow's belts are capable of sparking both pride and fear.
And it's the reaction of fear that the group wants to change. But, judging from that night at Shari's, its rhetorical methods vary.
Ludlow maintained a comfortable, respectful quiet throughout the night. In the last five months, he'd drawn his weapon five times (while working in Arizona, not Idaho), once to defend himself against a motel-room invasion, another time to protect a woman who was being chased by a man with a tire iron.
He recognizes the philosophical gap between pro- and anti-open carriers. To Ludlow, guns are tools. "Some of the people on the other side see [a gun] as an instrument of death," he said. "I don't see it like that."
Carter is less judicial.
"If you have a fear that people with guns are going to run around and shoot someone," he said, "well, that's because you're afraid if you had a gun, you'd run around and shoot someone."
The question is this: How do you reintroduce firearms into a culture that, as Ludlow and Carter have admitted, has rejected them as a part of everyday life? How do you push people toward the open-carry advocate's ideal society, one in which everyone who is permitted to do so openly carries a gun.
It's often the first question you're asked when you inquire as to why they're carrying guns: Why aren't you?
"They're going to have to someday wake up and realize that they've been living in this society, and guns have been prevalent and gun crime is not," said Carter. "People aren't shooting up the streets on Saturday night."
There is, as their dinner attests, work to be done.
"As tonight proved, we're not as far ahead as people would like to think we are," said Carter. "I can't walk into any restaurant I want to. I can't go everywhere I want."
Idaho sure has changed since I lived there in the ‘80s. One day, I was eating in a McDonalds in the middle of Pocatello and a guy rides up on a bicycle with a rifle slung over his shoulder using a piece of clothesline as a sling. He got off the bike, came inside, and ordered lunch. Then he sat down, propped the rifle against the table, and ate his lunch.
No one even gave him a second look. But, even in those days, Boise was considered to be the “bad” part of the state. I guess it still is.
What the heck kind of weapon is a “Model 31 .357SIG Glock “
Pick one or the other..SIG or GLOCK???
Isn't Idaho part of the Wild West? It is on my maps.
I think they meant to say a Glock Model 31, chambered for a .357 sig.
A .357 sig is a cartridge.
.357SIG is the caliber of the round fired in the Glock mentioned.
Some Glocks fire .9mm, some are .45acp and some now fire .57SIG caliber.
The local Fud’s has no signs prohibiting any sort of handgun carry.
However....They have lost me as a customer forever due to the fact that they have NO order takers that I can understand due to their inability to speak the English language.
When the order was screwed up, I was blamed by the order-taker....
I’m definitely an advocate of open carry (or concealed carry if social norms prefer), but it’s certainly the right of a restauranteur, innkeeper, or bar owner to ask patrons to check their guns.
It's real simple to figgure out, go to the Glock web site find model 31, it says, caliber: .357 Sig
>”This is supposed to be a family atmosphere,” said an IPC employee, who asked to remain anonymous. “We got no problem with them coming in. We just don’t want them carrying guns. I mean, we don’t live in the Wild West, man.”
If someone said that to me in my state, I’d have to respond with:
“Yes we do! This is New Mexico; you don’t get any more “Wild West” than that.”
That makes two of us, FRiend.
I’ve open carried at Shari’s on Franklin by Cabela’s before, no problems at all.
Fuddruckers I could do without anyways, sure they have “wild game” burgers (farm raised) like buffalo and ostrich but both times I ate there for lunch seemed a little bland. Got more enjoyment from Carl’s Jr across the street.
Overall in Boise haven’t had any problems open carrying, but don’t do it often. My bet is if they just showed up without pre-announcing it, leading to the Idaho Statesman editorial before the OC meal nothing would have been said about it.
Well then. no Money for anti open carry business......
"Bear" is verb. It means to hold or carry. I'd sat that what they are doing is precisely the everyday Second Amendment Right.
>I’m definitely an advocate of open carry (or concealed carry if social norms prefer), but it’s certainly the right of a restauranteur, innkeeper, or bar owner to ask patrons to check their guns.
This should be the case, and indeed, obligation of Courthouses [and other “no gun” zones]; after all you have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms on the sidewalk right outside and thusly should be able to be armed stepping out of the building. {And what if you walked to the courthouse, but were mandated to be there at a certain time (for a hearing or jury duties)? Would you be turned away, or prosecuted for protecting yourself on your trip? Would you be told to go “put it in your car” or some other absurdity?}
By stipulating that you cannot be armed in an official establishment, then honor binds them to provide a check-in which is safe and secure.
.357 Sig is my favorite. The medium sized Glock 32 is just about perfect for any occasion.
I agree. I’m OK with an establishment denying carry so long as they have a secure way to check it. For concealed carry... which here in WA you can’t do in bars... there ought to be some way to check the gun with the bartender.
bump
“...there ought to be some way to check the gun with the bartender.”
The bartender’s probably on parole for murder...
Well, maybe... but not my bartender... :-)
If you want to go out for a great burger, then go to Hardee’s/Carl’s Jr. They’re the only chain who’s hamburgers have gotten BETTER than they were 5 years ago!
whose, not who’s...my dumb mistake!
Ping!
I was on a church outing once and the group stopped at Fuddruckers. I’d never heard of the place at the time. One of the leaders announced where we were going, but he got the “f” and the “r” reversed.
I’ve never seen anybody turn so red for so long. He has refused to even try to say the restaurant’s name for 25 years now.
My favorite there is actually the Chicken Club Sandwich. I like them so much, I would have one as part of my last meal on Death Row. (Along with a Tommy's Burger Chili Tamale and my Mother's Lasagna). LOL
I highly recommend the Elmer Keith exhibit at the Boise Cabela’s!
You are so lucky that you live there, if only for the good food! I remember how good Del Taco and In-and-Out was, and that was 20 years ago. The nearest Hardee’s to me is actually an hour away (and a $3 bridge toll to boot!), but so worth the trip. There’s no Hardee’s in the Northeast from Philadelphia on up.
you’re missing out on a mean Ostrich burger!
I would recommend that these gentlemen adopt the ways of the left. If a gay couple, a black couple or another minority group had been refused service in a restaurant the outrage would have been heard far and wide. Since these guys are exercising their Constitutional rights I suggest that the 2 establishments hear from their lawyers about a possible civil rights violation and lawsuit.
Of course I'm in nutty California, but I'm 10 minutes from the Beach and I live in the last Republican stronghold. I have Faith that people out here will wake up, but not Blind Faith.
“you’re missing out on a mean Ostrich burger!”
I hear the Gentle Ostrich Burgers are pretty tasty as well.
Years ago, in the mid-70s, I worked door at a rather rowdy bar in Fairbanks, Alaska. (The Chena Bar on 2 St.) Open carry and concealed carry was quite common. We routinely asked customers to “leave your guns with us” and gave them a claim ticket. We rarely had a problem. If there was a problem, we just denied them entry.
And yes, pretty often we had people coming in the next day looking for their guns that they had left overnight....;)
I'll take the SIG please but depending on the Glock model, either one will fire the Sig .357 cartridge
Hell I remember high school guys with pick-up trucks, gun racks in the back window, driving to school with their guns prominently displayed.........but of course that’s back when people, even young people, had respect for laws and elders. No one ever ‘wigged’ out (or the modern term.....got all wee weed up) about it.
When I went to work for Pacific Telephone in 1980, I was introduced to an organization known as the "Pioneers". It turned out to be a boondoggle for the union workers to slack off while pretending to do some charitable project...on company time, of course. There was also the "telco recreation council". It caught my attention mostly due to the guy in charge. His name was Elmer C. Fudpucker. The reason your post calls this memory to mind is probably obvious. Elmer is apparently a member of the Boulevard M109 owners club as of 2006.
We have Fattburger in my neck of the woods, and they have my favorite burgers so far, with In 'N Out a fairly close second.
Carl was a great man. I remember reading about how some ‘rats hated it because of who he supported politically (which only endeared me to him more!). Carl’s Jr. may be a national chain now if CKR didn’t buy Hardee’s in 1997. Popular resentment against switching Hardee’s to Carl’s Jr. stopped that, and now they are brother companies.
The problem with this approach is that the Constitution is not binding on restaurants, only the government.
Yea but the libtards think their made up Constitutional rights apply everywhere and our real Constitutional rights don't apply anywhere.
Bzzzz! Wrong answer. Please try again later. Thank you for playing.
5.56mm
I’ve never fired one. Friends that have, or that have one, say they really like them.
So then you DO have a problem with them coming in? Or is it that you think it's noteworthy that you're so open minded that you allow even gun owners in your restaurant, as long as they don't have the guns on them at the time? I wish we could learn to be as tolerant as lefties.
RudeFuckers? Er, I mean FoodWreckers? You had a problem with FoodWreckers? Hard to believe. ;-)
Stop that! Now I want one! Do they include spare wrists in the box?
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