Skip to comments.Is the Dollar Going to Collapse?
Posted on 10/10/2009 8:02:36 AM PDT by ChessExpert
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They’ll have to find it first.
Squatters can borrow it though and use it without giving the owner compensation or recourse (other than violence). And I have a feeling the rural areas will have a LOT of squatters some time over the next few years.
All that has naught to do with anything. We were talking about the collapse of the value of the dollar and it has collapsed, whether or not you can buy more with one hour of work is not part of it. The very reason an hour pays more in nominal dollars now is that the dollar HAS collapsed.
>> In the Great Depression I believe they seized everyones safety deposit boxes ...
FALSE — Read text below from Wikipedia under “Executive Order 6102”:
False Rumors of Safety Deposit Seizure
Circulating on the internet are rumors that Executive Order 6102 led to the seizure or freezing of safe deposit boxes in 1933. There are also falsified versions of the text of the order which imply that “Internal Revenue Service agents” managed this supposed freezing of safe deposit boxes. The actual text of the order which can be viewed in the PDF file below has no reference to IRS agents or safe deposit boxes.
In actuality, despite the threat of criminal prosecution, no safe deposit boxes were forcibly searched under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold hoarding were executed under different statutes. One of the few such cases occurred over two years later in 1936 when the safe deposit box of Zelik Josefowitz, who was not a U.S. citizen, containing over 10,000 ounces of gold was seized with a search warrant as part of a tax evasion prosecution. In 1933 approximately 500 tonnes of gold were turned in to the Treasury “voluntarily” at the exchange rate of $20.67 per troy ounce.
Although the U.S. Treasury did not seize safe deposit box contents it nevertheless came into possession of a large number of them due to bank failures. During the 1930s over 3,000 banks failed and the contents of their safe deposit boxes were remanded to the custody of the Treasury. If no one claimed the box it remained in the possession of the Treasury. As of October, 1981, there were 1605 cardboard cartons in the basement of the Treasury each containing the contents of an unclaimed safe deposit box.
If you have to pay someone, or if you don’t then they can throw you out / confiscate your property, who owns it?
All property taxes are rent, and all the property that’s taxed belongs to the taxing authority.
If you want junk silver (small coins) to sell in an emergency for food and stuff...go to your local coin shop. If you want bars or several ounces..go to any major Gold dealer, they usually sell silver as well. Rosland Capital is always advertising on Fox.
I don’t know if the dollar is collapsing.
I disagree with your examples proving the dollars is collapsing.
I gave examples of many items that were once expensive now cheap. I gave examples of percentages showing the prices are relatively the same, if not cheaper.
I will give you one more example. My ancestors were once very wealthy. I have a tablet that lists an inheritance (circa 1850s) totaling approximately $50K. They were the one of the richest families in the north east. Everything including gold, property, paintings, rare collections, even the servants’ candle sticks came out to a whopping 50K.
If the value of something proves the collapse of something then the dollar collapsed long ago, if I understand you point correctly.
And that is the immorality of property taxes.
You can never really own any property. What you have worked and paid for can be taken from you if you stop paying protection money to the mob...oops, I mean government.
Property taxes (and income taxes too) are very Marxist and buy into the idea that all property, all work, and the individual all belong to the State.
Nobody owns anything, ultimately, in such a system. Not even themselves.
After the sky-is-falling routine over international investing & lending that turns out to have been nothing except an occasion to siphon of huge amounts of other people’s money, I think I’ll wait to see what happens with the-sky-is-falling regarding the dollar.
Say there’s a crisis.
Charge dearly to fix what isn’t there.
Proclaim it fixed.
What if all your gold, all your guns, and all your ammo are unfortunately stolen in a despicable home burglary? They can’t tax or confiscate what you no longer “have”.
Not any more. Do you know of ONE GOPer that has any nads left? We HAVE no leaders in the GOP now. Certainly nobody the likes of Newt or DeLay. And hell...even THEY wussed out on us in the end.
And pay with cash?
The dingo ate my receipts!
Speaking of doom & gloom under the commies.....guess what’s probably going to make a comeback REAL soon.
Remember that “imputed value” BS for homeowners? Maybe THAT is why the DemocRats wanted so many to suddenly own homes (aside from the obvious payback to their minority constituents). They’ll be taxing everyone based on the income one COULD be getting if they were renting out one or two of their bedrooms, even if said homeowner never EVER plans to do so. Even if you’re NOT getting any income from that source, you’ll be taxed on it ANYway. Fun, huh!
Just one more prediction I wish I’d never thought of.
If the value of something proves the collapse of something then the dollar collapsed long ago, if I understand you point correctly.
That’s about it. My stepdaughter lives in a very nice, roomy, well built house built in 1961 for seventeen thousand dollars. It is currently insured for ten times that. The house is not more valuable, it has depreciated in real terms, the value of the dollar has collapsed and it is about to collapse much farther. If she is fortunate enough to still have the house in five years it may be valued at who knows what, it could be millions. We may have some actual DEFLATION for a while but I see no possibility for anything but runaway inflation in the long term. The most recent price of gold was something over one thousand and forty dollars a troy ounce. There may be some increase in the real value of gold since the days when it was pegged at thirty two dollars an ounce but it would be minimal, the rest represents the loss in value of a nominal dollar. This is not like the runup to eight hundred an ounce that occurred around thirty years ago. I don’t expect to see the price of gold collapse again. There will be ups and downs as with any precious metal but I will be very surprised if it goes back DOWN to eight hundred again. I think it is quite possible that we may see the paper dollar become as worthless as the Zimbabwe dollar. There is simply no conceivable way to pay the debt in real terms, it can only be done by making the dollar worthless.
You may think I am overstating the case and I would love to believe that myself but look at California, for so long I have heard that as California goes so goes the nation. California is flat busted, there is probably more future in Mississippi now than in California. The chinese are buying the Hummer brand! Who would have believed a few years ago that GM would fall apart and the Hummer would be sold to the Chinese?
Rule #2: If you have to panic, do it first.
Please accept my pardon..I seem to failed in making my point.
1) You go to a metals dealer
2) You give him/her your greenbacks
3) They, in turn give you some metal (gold, silver, whatever)
Later, when the economy tanks and you have the chance to purchase something at fire sale prices
4) You go back to the dealer
5) Give him/her some (small) amount of your metal
6) He/she gives you wads of greenbacks
7) You go purchase what you wanted.
With so-call junk silver, you may be able to skip steps 4 thru 6.
The idea, for many here, is to store some of their ‘wealth’ in metal and then extract that wealth at a later date.
When I was in High school, a gallon of regular gasoline cost 25 to 30 cents per gallon. Right now 3 pre-1964 dimes will buy that same gallon of gas, with some change back to you. Trying up small amouts in metal may be a good thing.
The cool thing about America, at least for now anyway, is that YOU get to decide what you want to do with your dough/cash/ducats/wampum.
I hope that explains my point.
In another vien..
Yes, pay for your metal in cash. Cash transactions under 10K - at least around here - have no name recorded....
Alaska still has many working gold mines and many, many part time gold miners, so metal is readly traded, bought, sold and so on.
That should cover it.
AS they say, I’m just a poor boy, I could never come up with 10K in cash to buy metal. I take a few bucks from each paycheck and buy a few dimes or halfs....
Drug dealers OTOH, may have that kind of cash to throw around, I sure as heck don’t.
People have a way of remembering what things cost back then - not the small wages. That said, do you think the dollar is going to collapse - and if it did, what would our economic surroundings look like?
We can count an increase in real income as a success. Did we need all this inflation to achieve it? I certainly don't think so.
Some economists have argued that some inflation may be beneficial due to the (alleged) “stickiness” of wages in a downward direction. For example, if we have two percent inflation per year, wages in a declining field might be held constant. That would be a 2% reduction in real terms. It is claimed that this is easier for people to accept compared to an outright reduction of wages in a noninflationary environment. There is a reduced likelihood of strikes or other labor disruption.
It's an argument, but I'm not sure I buy it. People are pretty smart and adaptable. They can understand wage reductions, or layoffs. Perhaps a clear signal is better than a policy of deception.
It is hard for me to see any merit to inflation above 2% per year.
in the old days, a freepathon would be a short event....
so lets get this one wrapped up quickly...do it now.....thanks....
We've supported the mid-east oil exporters and China etc...what happens when our large economy no longer buys their stuff?
The dollar WILL NOT COLLAPSE.
It will probably erode away.
If you have a small or undiversified economy, your currency can collapse overnite, like the world trade center.
If you are really big like the US, your currency can slowly erode away like a mountain, but it won’t do the overnite belly up like some small countries like Iceland.
The problem is (and it’s a big problem) gold isn’t money anymore. A confiscation scenario isn’t going to happen, or if it were, there would be far greater things to worry about, and regardless would be widely and utterly ignored. The real issue of a credible currency is trust in government, rule of law, property rights, human rights, etc. Do you think people trust government right now?
In the ‘70’s, my father decided to buy gold. He was offered a gold certificate or gold coin. Let’s see, which would be better - a piece of paper or the actual coin. He picked the coin.
A few months later, that company went belly up and left a lot of people holding pieces of paper.
His thought was that if he or my mother had to be put in a nursing home, I would have gold coins to pay them some little extra’s. Fortunately, I didn’t have to do that.
The “man you spoke with” is pulling a scam.
Lots of misconceptions on that. The 10k reporting requirement refers to CASH. Write a check, paid by check, no problem. Yes, there’s a record of that, which is why the reporting requirements for cash itself.
That makes sense. I hope you are right!
One implication is that one might do well to invest elsewhere, buying on dips. I've read that there is more leverage investing in gold miners, than in gold itself. But one can invest in mining generally: gold, silver, copper, etc. One can even invest in commodities generally. One can also invest in foreign stocks and bonds. These are all bets against the dollar.
Why bet against the dollar? Because of the massive debt put in place by Obama and the Democrats. As things stand, it seems we will have a sly defaulting on the debt through future inflation. As an alternative, it is conceivable that we could grow our way out of this problem. But the Democratic policies are not growth policies; they are contraction policies.
Total world output of silver for 2006 was 19,961 tons, versus 2,343 tons for gold. So, are you one of those who think that gold is somehow a more common metal? The price differential between the two metals should have tipped you off. Silver is a far more common metal in terms of current and historic production. I won't bother responding to the other boneheads.
ping tt myself
The store of value held in gold by American citizens may be insignificant these days.
When I’ve purchased gold or silver or collectibles, I’ve never been asked for SSn, etc., just certified $ for goods. Lots of people use a name identical to mine. The records are my own business.
I sort of agree with you, but property taxes are not a recent commie phenomenon, either. They were around right from the git-go. For just one example, the Fire Department.
Different stations used to fight each other on the way to a fire! However, it wasn’t “universal service” either. You paid yer dues, and install a plaque on your house that proved the insurance was paid up. Otherwise the house might just burn... The point is, “civilization” is not the default, all those things we take for granted as a society cost money.
Communism is not a recent phenomenon either. It’s been around since the beginning of civilization as well on the one hand with individual freedom on the other. Karl Marx just wrote it down.
Personally, I would prefer some kind of insurance scheme for police and fire protection where you could choose the level of protection you want.
If you want to use your money for police or fire insurance, you do. If you would rather put some of that money into fences, razor wire, shotguns, and fire hoses, you do.
I would opt to pay insurance myself. Others might choose to depend on the kindness of their neighbors. They might even get it.
I kind of like the way lost in the woods hikers are handled now. If you want to go on a hike, you do. You have the opportunity to buy “get lost” insurance before you go, but you don’t have to buy it. If you get lost without insurance, Search and Rescue still comes looking for you but you have to pay the entire bill afterward.