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Is the Dollar Going to Collapse?
Human Events | 10/09/2009 | Mark Skousen

Posted on 10/10/2009 8:02:36 AM PDT by ChessExpert

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To: P-Marlowe

They’ll have to find it first.


101 posted on 10/10/2009 6:36:14 PM PDT by XenaLee
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To: P-Marlowe

Squatters can borrow it though and use it without giving the owner compensation or recourse (other than violence). And I have a feeling the rural areas will have a LOT of squatters some time over the next few years.


102 posted on 10/10/2009 6:40:22 PM PDT by XenaLee
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To: egannacht

All that has naught to do with anything. We were talking about the collapse of the value of the dollar and it has collapsed, whether or not you can buy more with one hour of work is not part of it. The very reason an hour pays more in nominal dollars now is that the dollar HAS collapsed.


103 posted on 10/10/2009 6:43:38 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Trying to reason with a leftist is like trying to catch sunshine in a fish net at midnight.)
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To: XenaLee

>> In the Great Depression I believe they seized everyone’s safety deposit boxes ...

FALSE — Read text below from Wikipedia under “Executive Order 6102”:

False Rumors of Safety Deposit Seizure

Circulating on the internet are rumors that Executive Order 6102 led to the seizure or freezing of safe deposit boxes in 1933. There are also falsified versions of the text of the order which imply that “Internal Revenue Service agents” managed this supposed freezing of safe deposit boxes. The actual text of the order which can be viewed in the PDF file below has no reference to IRS agents or safe deposit boxes.

In actuality, despite the threat of criminal prosecution, no safe deposit boxes were forcibly searched under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold hoarding were executed under different statutes. One of the few such cases occurred over two years later in 1936 when the safe deposit box of Zelik Josefowitz, who was not a U.S. citizen, containing over 10,000 ounces of gold was seized with a search warrant as part of a tax evasion prosecution.[4] In 1933 approximately 500 tonnes of gold were turned in to the Treasury “voluntarily” at the exchange rate of $20.67 per troy ounce.[5]

Although the U.S. Treasury did not seize safe deposit box contents it nevertheless came into possession of a large number of them due to bank failures. During the 1930s over 3,000 banks failed and the contents of their safe deposit boxes were remanded to the custody of the Treasury. If no one claimed the box it remained in the possession of the Treasury. As of October, 1981, there were 1605 cardboard cartons in the basement of the Treasury each containing the contents of an unclaimed safe deposit box.[6]


104 posted on 10/10/2009 6:46:59 PM PDT by webschooner
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To: seowulf

If you have to pay someone, or if you don’t then they can throw you out / confiscate your property, who owns it?

All property taxes are rent, and all the property that’s taxed belongs to the taxing authority.


105 posted on 10/10/2009 6:48:34 PM PDT by motor_racer (What is the color of the boathouse at Hereford?)
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To: freespirited
What is the best way to buy silver?

If you want junk silver (small coins) to sell in an emergency for food and stuff...go to your local coin shop. If you want bars or several ounces..go to any major Gold dealer, they usually sell silver as well. Rosland Capital is always advertising on Fox.

106 posted on 10/10/2009 6:50:44 PM PDT by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......?)
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To: RipSawyer

I don’t know if the dollar is collapsing.

I disagree with your examples proving the dollars is collapsing.

I gave examples of many items that were once expensive now cheap. I gave examples of percentages showing the prices are relatively the same, if not cheaper.

I will give you one more example. My ancestors were once very wealthy. I have a tablet that lists an inheritance (circa 1850s) totaling approximately $50K. They were the one of the richest families in the north east. Everything including gold, property, paintings, rare collections, even the servants’ candle sticks came out to a whopping 50K.

If the value of something proves the collapse of something then the dollar collapsed long ago, if I understand you point correctly.


107 posted on 10/10/2009 6:55:28 PM PDT by egannacht (Vote YES for statism: Why burden yourself with civic duty when Idol and Oprah are on?)
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To: motor_racer
All property taxes are rent, and all the property that’s taxed belongs to the taxing authority.

And that is the immorality of property taxes.

You can never really own any property. What you have worked and paid for can be taken from you if you stop paying protection money to the mob...oops, I mean government.

Property taxes (and income taxes too) are very Marxist and buy into the idea that all property, all work, and the individual all belong to the State.

Nobody owns anything, ultimately, in such a system. Not even themselves.

108 posted on 10/10/2009 7:02:34 PM PDT by seowulf (Petraeus, cross the Rubicon.)
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To: P-Marlowe

After the sky-is-falling routine over international investing & lending that turns out to have been nothing except an occasion to siphon of huge amounts of other people’s money, I think I’ll wait to see what happens with the-sky-is-falling regarding the dollar.

Say there’s a crisis.

Charge dearly to fix what isn’t there.

Proclaim it fixed.


109 posted on 10/10/2009 7:17:43 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: P-Marlowe

What if all your gold, all your guns, and all your ammo are unfortunately stolen in a despicable home burglary? They can’t tax or confiscate what you no longer “have”.


110 posted on 10/10/2009 7:23:37 PM PDT by XenaLee
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To: runninglips

Not any more. Do you know of ONE GOPer that has any nads left? We HAVE no leaders in the GOP now. Certainly nobody the likes of Newt or DeLay. And hell...even THEY wussed out on us in the end.


111 posted on 10/10/2009 7:26:11 PM PDT by XenaLee
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To: ASOC

And pay with cash?


112 posted on 10/10/2009 7:26:53 PM PDT by XenaLee
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To: P-Marlowe

The dingo ate my receipts!


113 posted on 10/10/2009 7:27:45 PM PDT by XenaLee
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To: seowulf

Speaking of doom & gloom under the commies.....guess what’s probably going to make a comeback REAL soon.

Remember that “imputed value” BS for homeowners? Maybe THAT is why the DemocRats wanted so many to suddenly own homes (aside from the obvious payback to their minority constituents). They’ll be taxing everyone based on the income one COULD be getting if they were renting out one or two of their bedrooms, even if said homeowner never EVER plans to do so. Even if you’re NOT getting any income from that source, you’ll be taxed on it ANYway. Fun, huh!

Just one more prediction I wish I’d never thought of.


114 posted on 10/10/2009 7:32:52 PM PDT by XenaLee
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To: egannacht

If the value of something proves the collapse of something then the dollar collapsed long ago, if I understand you point correctly.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

That’s about it. My stepdaughter lives in a very nice, roomy, well built house built in 1961 for seventeen thousand dollars. It is currently insured for ten times that. The house is not more valuable, it has depreciated in real terms, the value of the dollar has collapsed and it is about to collapse much farther. If she is fortunate enough to still have the house in five years it may be valued at who knows what, it could be millions. We may have some actual DEFLATION for a while but I see no possibility for anything but runaway inflation in the long term. The most recent price of gold was something over one thousand and forty dollars a troy ounce. There may be some increase in the real value of gold since the days when it was pegged at thirty two dollars an ounce but it would be minimal, the rest represents the loss in value of a nominal dollar. This is not like the runup to eight hundred an ounce that occurred around thirty years ago. I don’t expect to see the price of gold collapse again. There will be ups and downs as with any precious metal but I will be very surprised if it goes back DOWN to eight hundred again. I think it is quite possible that we may see the paper dollar become as worthless as the Zimbabwe dollar. There is simply no conceivable way to pay the debt in real terms, it can only be done by making the dollar worthless.

You may think I am overstating the case and I would love to believe that myself but look at California, for so long I have heard that as California goes so goes the nation. California is flat busted, there is probably more future in Mississippi now than in California. The chinese are buying the Hummer brand! Who would have believed a few years ago that GM would fall apart and the Hummer would be sold to the Chinese?


115 posted on 10/10/2009 7:47:12 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Trying to reason with a leftist is like trying to catch sunshine in a fish net at midnight.)
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To: glorgau
Rule #1: Don’t panic.

Rule #2: If you have to panic, do it first.

Good point.

116 posted on 10/10/2009 8:29:41 PM PDT by GOPJ (Nominated:Chamberlain, Hitler, Stalin. Winners: Arafat,Carter, Gore, Obama.(Nobel Prizes of Shame))
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To: XenaLee

Please accept my pardon..I seem to failed in making my point.

1) You go to a metals dealer

2) You give him/her your greenbacks

3) They, in turn give you some metal (gold, silver, whatever)

Later, when the economy tanks and you have the chance to purchase something at fire sale prices

4) You go back to the dealer

5) Give him/her some (small) amount of your metal

6) He/she gives you wads of greenbacks

7) You go purchase what you wanted.

With so-call junk silver, you may be able to skip steps 4 thru 6.

The idea, for many here, is to store some of their ‘wealth’ in metal and then extract that wealth at a later date.

When I was in High school, a gallon of regular gasoline cost 25 to 30 cents per gallon. Right now 3 pre-1964 dimes will buy that same gallon of gas, with some change back to you. Trying up small amouts in metal may be a good thing.

The cool thing about America, at least for now anyway, is that YOU get to decide what you want to do with your dough/cash/ducats/wampum.

I hope that explains my point.


117 posted on 10/10/2009 8:42:58 PM PDT by ASOC (Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui)
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To: XenaLee

In another vien..

Yes, pay for your metal in cash. Cash transactions under 10K - at least around here - have no name recorded....

Alaska still has many working gold mines and many, many part time gold miners, so metal is readly traded, bought, sold and so on.

That should cover it.


118 posted on 10/10/2009 8:45:36 PM PDT by ASOC (Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui)
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To: runninglips

AS they say, I’m just a poor boy, I could never come up with 10K in cash to buy metal. I take a few bucks from each paycheck and buy a few dimes or halfs....

Drug dealers OTOH, may have that kind of cash to throw around, I sure as heck don’t.


119 posted on 10/10/2009 8:47:44 PM PDT by ASOC (Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui)
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To: egannacht

People have a way of remembering what things cost back then - not the small wages. That said, do you think the dollar is going to collapse - and if it did, what would our economic surroundings look like?


120 posted on 10/10/2009 8:47:50 PM PDT by GOPJ (Nominated:Chamberlain, Hitler, Stalin. Winners: Arafat,Carter, Gore, Obama.(Nobel Prizes of Shame))
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To: egannacht
You've made a good point: prices have gone up, but so have our wages, furthermore, our “real” (inflation adjusted) income has gone up.

We can count an increase in real income as a success. Did we need all this inflation to achieve it? I certainly don't think so.

Some economists have argued that some inflation may be beneficial due to the (alleged) “stickiness” of wages in a downward direction. For example, if we have two percent inflation per year, wages in a declining field might be held constant. That would be a 2% reduction in real terms. It is claimed that this is easier for people to accept compared to an outright reduction of wages in a noninflationary environment. There is a reduced likelihood of strikes or other labor disruption.

It's an argument, but I'm not sure I buy it. People are pretty smart and adaptable. They can understand wage reductions, or layoffs. Perhaps a clear signal is better than a policy of deception.

It is hard for me to see any merit to inflation above 2% per year.

121 posted on 10/10/2009 8:56:17 PM PDT by ChessExpert (The unemployment rate was 4.5% when Democrats took control of Congress. What is it today?)
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To: Canedawg
Please People....if you haven't given to the freepathon yet, do so now and as generously as possible...

in the old days, a freepathon would be a short event....

so lets get this one wrapped up quickly...do it now.....thanks....

122 posted on 10/10/2009 10:09:27 PM PDT by cherry
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To: allmost
what are the ramifications for the other countries if they do this?.....I think they would be really awful....

We've supported the mid-east oil exporters and China etc...what happens when our large economy no longer buys their stuff?

123 posted on 10/10/2009 10:11:18 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Batrachian
You are one of those who probably think there is more silver than gold, too.

Nam Vet

124 posted on 10/10/2009 10:17:11 PM PDT by Nam Vet ("Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, Wherever you are ! ")
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To: ChessExpert

The dollar WILL NOT COLLAPSE.

It will probably erode away.

If you have a small or undiversified economy, your currency can collapse overnite, like the world trade center.

If you are really big like the US, your currency can slowly erode away like a mountain, but it won’t do the overnite belly up like some small countries like Iceland.


125 posted on 10/10/2009 11:34:14 PM PDT by staytrue
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To: cherry
what are the ramifications for the other countries if they do this?.....I think they would be really awful.... We've supported the mid-east oil exporters and China etc...what happens when our large economy no longer buys their stuff?

Oil exporters are hit hard by a falling Dollar. Oil (for now) is denominated in dollars so every increment of revenue they earn is worth less if they try to import anything from countries whose currency is strengthening relative to the greenback. Plus they need to charge more which generally decreases demand. China has been gearing for War in the past few decades. They've been buying up officially and promoting internally massive acquisitions of dollar denominated commodities, such as gold, as a hedge. China's actions are the most worrisome as they hold vast amounts of US treasuries (over $800 billion) and can easily influence a precipitous drop if they chose to do so. It would hurt their exports in the short term so the moves are more of a slow pull back at this point. Any outbreak of hostilities in places such as Taiwan could see them simply wagging treasuries in the air over our heads while they act with aggressive impunity. A pretty rotten situation we're in. Our people will pay with pay with extensive misery in the short term, our allies will most likely pay with their lives.
126 posted on 10/11/2009 4:08:55 AM PDT by allmost
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To: allmost
will pay with pay with

Apparently the coffee hasn't reached my fingers yet this morning. :)
127 posted on 10/11/2009 4:14:20 AM PDT by allmost
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To: runninglips
Indeed I do. Great days except for the communist anti-war movement.
128 posted on 10/11/2009 4:32:40 AM PDT by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: P-Marlowe

The problem is (and it’s a big problem) gold isn’t money anymore. A confiscation scenario isn’t going to happen, or if it were, there would be far greater things to worry about, and regardless would be widely and utterly ignored. The real issue of a credible currency is trust in government, rule of law, property rights, human rights, etc. Do you think people trust government right now?


129 posted on 10/11/2009 4:57:10 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Nuc1

In the ‘70’s, my father decided to buy gold. He was offered a gold certificate or gold coin. Let’s see, which would be better - a piece of paper or the actual coin. He picked the coin.

A few months later, that company went belly up and left a lot of people holding pieces of paper.

His thought was that if he or my mother had to be put in a nursing home, I would have gold coins to pay them some little extra’s. Fortunately, I didn’t have to do that.


130 posted on 10/11/2009 4:57:50 AM PDT by BuckeyeOhio ("Churchill was a governor; Hitler was a community activist".)
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To: ohiogrammy

The “man you spoke with” is pulling a scam.


131 posted on 10/11/2009 4:59:37 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: runninglips

Lots of misconceptions on that. The 10k reporting requirement refers to CASH. Write a check, paid by check, no problem. Yes, there’s a record of that, which is why the reporting requirements for cash itself.


132 posted on 10/11/2009 5:03:39 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: BuckeyeOhio
I am not sure gold will be the thing to have but it has a proven track record. I would own some if I could afford it.
133 posted on 10/11/2009 6:51:32 AM PDT by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: staytrue
“The dollar WILL NOT COLLAPSE. It will probably erode away.
...”

That makes sense. I hope you are right!

One implication is that one might do well to invest elsewhere, buying on dips. I've read that there is more leverage investing in gold miners, than in gold itself. But one can invest in mining generally: gold, silver, copper, etc. One can even invest in commodities generally. One can also invest in foreign stocks and bonds. These are all bets against the dollar.

Why bet against the dollar? Because of the massive debt put in place by Obama and the Democrats. As things stand, it seems we will have a sly defaulting on the debt through future inflation. As an alternative, it is conceivable that we could grow our way out of this problem. But the Democratic policies are not growth policies; they are contraction policies.

134 posted on 10/11/2009 8:31:56 AM PDT by ChessExpert (The unemployment rate was 4.5% when Democrats took control of Congress. What is it today?)
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To: Nam Vet
"You are one of those who probably think there is more silver than gold, too."

Total world output of silver for 2006 was 19,961 tons, versus 2,343 tons for gold. So, are you one of those who think that gold is somehow a more common metal? The price differential between the two metals should have tipped you off. Silver is a far more common metal in terms of current and historic production. I won't bother responding to the other boneheads.

135 posted on 10/11/2009 9:37:43 AM PDT by Batrachian
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To: ChessExpert

ping tt myself


136 posted on 10/11/2009 10:59:11 AM PDT by happygrl (Hope and Change or Rope and Chains?)
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To: P-Marlowe
You could be right. But circumstances are a lot different today. In the 30's people believed that gold was money, and actually held it. The world believed that gold was money, and welcomed it backing currency. Today, after years of central banks denunciation of gold being "neanderthal", most do not think of gold as money, but as some useless metal that a bunch of nutty goldbugs go for.

The store of value held in gold by American citizens may be insignificant these days.

137 posted on 10/11/2009 11:29:34 AM PDT by GregoryFul
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To: ASOC

When I’ve purchased gold or silver or collectibles, I’ve never been asked for SSn, etc., just certified $ for goods. Lots of people use a name identical to mine. The records are my own business.


138 posted on 10/11/2009 11:49:52 AM PDT by GregoryFul
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To: ChessExpert

btt


139 posted on 10/11/2009 1:47:03 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: seowulf

I sort of agree with you, but property taxes are not a recent commie phenomenon, either. They were around right from the git-go. For just one example, the Fire Department.

Different stations used to fight each other on the way to a fire! However, it wasn’t “universal service” either. You paid yer dues, and install a plaque on your house that proved the insurance was paid up. Otherwise the house might just burn... The point is, “civilization” is not the default, all those things we take for granted as a society cost money.


140 posted on 10/11/2009 5:44:00 PM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US

Communism is not a recent phenomenon either. It’s been around since the beginning of civilization as well on the one hand with individual freedom on the other. Karl Marx just wrote it down.

Personally, I would prefer some kind of insurance scheme for police and fire protection where you could choose the level of protection you want.

If you want to use your money for police or fire insurance, you do. If you would rather put some of that money into fences, razor wire, shotguns, and fire hoses, you do.

I would opt to pay insurance myself. Others might choose to depend on the kindness of their neighbors. They might even get it.

I kind of like the way lost in the woods hikers are handled now. If you want to go on a hike, you do. You have the opportunity to buy “get lost” insurance before you go, but you don’t have to buy it. If you get lost without insurance, Search and Rescue still comes looking for you but you have to pay the entire bill afterward.


141 posted on 10/12/2009 10:23:23 AM PDT by seowulf (Petraeus, cross the Rubicon.)
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To: seowulf
Here is a chart of the dollar..it says it all:
142 posted on 11/17/2009 11:31:10 AM PST by bdw300
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To: bdw300
I think these charts are telling us something too..
143 posted on 11/18/2009 8:31:23 AM PST by bdw300
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